Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Every thread someone is calling for campbell to be benched but his numbers are great.
1. Rating: 92.5 Higher than Brady, Big Ben, C. Palmer, Cutler, and Rivers
2. 9th in passing yards: More that Rodgers, Ryan, Palmer, E. Manning, & Cutler
3. 5th in the Comp. Percent. 67.6%: Higher than everyone in the league except P. Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Chad Penn.

So what else does he have to do to be considered a good QB. The Skins have a good QB, just bad playcalling, no running game, and no O-line. Get off campbell's back. He is doing more with less better than anyone in the NFL. Check the stats the STATS don't lie!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

He's off to his best start as a pro, and even the sack rate which is probably the most important stat that isn't contained in QB rating is down around career-best levels.

I think he needs to protect the football better, especially on play action plays. He's almost regressed from last year in that respect.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Good stats, except for how many TDs he's thrown. Where's that stat? You could have a 130 QB rating and 4000+ yards, but at the end of the day when you're not putting the ball in the endzone... Yeah... Almost makes everything else moot.

While that may not be totally JC's fault, everyone's gonna end up pointing their finger at him at the end of the day.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Are you serious? What about his 3rd down conversion % or his red zone % or TD passes or Ws.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

The thing I wonder though is what are his numbers when the team puts the ball in his hands on 3rd down. I know as a team the Redskins are 14/37 (38%) on third downs but at the same time our opponents are over 50% against our defense with 22/43 (51%).

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;598742]Every thread someone is calling for campbell to be bench but his numbers are great.
1. Rating: 92.5 Higher than Brady, Big Ben, C. Palmer, Cutler, and Rivers
2. 9th in passing yards: More that Rodgers, Ryan, Palmer, E. Manning, & Cutler
3. 5th in the Comp. Percent. 67.6%: Higher than everyone in the league except P. Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Chad Penn.

So what else does he have to do to be considered a good QB. The Skins have a good QB, just bad playcalling, no running game, and no O-line. Get off campbell's back. He is doing more with less better than anyone in the NFL. Check the stats the STATS don't lie![/quote]

Thanks for posting this I have been saying this for a while. Even his stretch last year when he didn't throw an interception for a while. He led the NFL with the "least ints for a minimum of 500 passes thrown. But we will just run him off then he will come back to hunt us landing somewhere in the NFC. Write it down.

People say he doesn't have a quick release. You can't have a quick release when no one is open. You usually hold on the ball too long when no one is open not just because you like how it feels in your hand. JC can't read defenses. How do people know this? He is not a leader? He lead his team to a national championship in college. People just love to hate on this board. Any QB placed in this position would not produce. Maybe if he was a running Qb like Vick and that's only because they would balance out thing with rushing yards. By that meaning when no one is open they can run and when the o-line breaks down they can run.

Quote from Tony Dungy and I would think he knows more about football than all of us.

[B]Dungy:[/B] "It's not always getting the best players. It's building a good team, building a team that everyone has confidence in, and, right now, they don't have confidence." My take: Harrison faced Campbell so his comments are telling. But Dungy is more accurate, that this is bigger than the quarterback. The Redskins can change the QB after this season as well as the coach. If the culture doesn't change, the future won't be much different.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

No offense but anyone right now who thinks Campbell is the real deal is insane. He cant even take the snap cleanly half the plays. Anyone can manipulate stats to make someone look good. So in this case your stats do lie.

[quote=DynamiteRave;598745]Good stats, except for how many TDs he's thrown. Where's that stat? You could have a 130 QB rating and 4000+ yards, but at the end of the day when you're not putting the ball in the endzone... Yeah... Almost makes everything else moot.

While that may not be totally JC's fault, everyone's gonna end up pointing their finger at him at the end of the day.[/quote]I'm completely going to be a smartass for a second.

The maximum passer rating if the QB doesn't throw any TD's is 118.7. For Campbell's passer rating to be any better than it actually is, he's got to throw for more touchdowns than he does.

In this way, the offenses' struggles are sneaking down to Jason Campbell's stat line, as opposed to the other way around.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Zerohero;598749]No offense but anyone right now who thinks Campbell is the real deal is insane. He cant even take the snap cleanly half the plays. Anyone can manipulate stats to make someone look good. So in this case your stats do lie.[/quote]Manipulate. LOL.

In the words of Matty: Fail.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;598748]Thanks for posting this I have been saying this for a while. Even his stretch last year when he didn't throw an interception for a while. He led the NFL with the "least ints for a minimum of 500 passes thrown. But we will just run him off then he will come back to hunt us landing somewhere in the NFC. Write it down.

People say he doesn't have a quick release. You can't have a quick release when no one is open. You usually hold on the ball too long when no one is open not just because you like how it feels in your hand. JC can't read defenses. How do people know this? He is not a leader. He lead his team to a national championship in college. People just love to hate on this board. Any QB placed in this position would not produce. Maybe if he was a running Qb like Vick and that's only because they would balance out thing with rushing yards. By that meaning when no one is open they can run and when the o-line breaks down they can run.

Quote from Tony Dungy and I would think he knows more about football than all of us.

[B]Dungy:[/B] "It's not always getting the best players. It's building a good team, building a team that everyone has confidence in, and, right now, they don't have confidence." My take: Harrison faced Campbell so his comments are telling. But Dungy is more accurate, that this is bigger than the quarterback. The Redskins can change the QB after this season as well as the coach. [B]If the culture doesn't change, the future won't be much different[/B].[/quote]

I'm down for rearranging the locker room and getting players their own personalized parking spaces. It worked in Detroit. Lets do eet!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;598745]Good stats, except for how many TDs he's thrown. Where's that stat? You could have a 130 QB rating and 4000+ yards, but at the end of the day when you're not putting the ball in the endzone... Yeah... Almost makes everything else moot.

While that may not be totally JC's fault, everyone's gonna end up pointing their finger at him at the end of the day.[/quote]

Hmm...

-Thomas drops a TD pass
-Sellers drops a TD pass
-Zorn calls a HB option play
-We try to run the ball in at the goal line on 2 separate occasions
-Moss fumbles in the redzone

6 opps we came up with that pan out that weren't JC's fault. I may be missing some. But those are the ones I can think of right off hand.

*Not enough passes down the field for bombs. Why because he doesn't have time. By the end of the season if the line can start to hodl up many will be eating crow. We expect Manning & Brady. But at times this year they have had bad games. Brady just got out of his funk injured or not. We dont have the cohesiveness and discipline as a offense. So any QB would struggle here.


Do you see a pattern here?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

i dont hate on jc i love the guy...but what he lacks is leadership to take the game into his hands and get the win. where is the stat on 4th quarter comebacks on him

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;598745]Good stats, except for how many TDs he's thrown. Where's that stat? You could have a 130 QB rating and 4000+ yards, but at the end of the day when you're not putting the ball in the endzone... Yeah... Almost makes everything else moot.

While that may not be totally JC's fault, everyone's gonna end up pointing their finger at him at the end of the day.[/quote]

Lol besides the no huddle(Where he calls his own plays), how many times has he gotten a chance to throw it. How many times when he did throw did the reciever either drop it or not run it in after the catch. You need to start paying attention.

In my opinion its not anyOnes fault but the team as a whole. Ya know what i mean? Like how #17 & #89 were clicking, the whole team needs to do. Then well be ready for week seven.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;598742]Every thread someone is calling for campbell to be benched but his numbers are great.
1. Rating: 92.5 Higher than Brady, Big Ben, C. Palmer, Cutler, and Rivers
2. 9th in passing yards: More that Rodgers, Ryan, Palmer, E. Manning, & Cutler
3. 5th in the Comp. Percent. 67.6%: Higher than everyone in the league except P. Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Chad Penn.

So what else does he have to do to be considered a good QB. The Skins have a good QB, just bad playcalling, no running game, and no O-line. Get off campbell's back. He is doing more with less better than anyone in the NFL. Check the stats the STATS don't lie![/quote]

Wrong! Stats do lie. He's not getting the team in the end zone. Not all his fault but some of it is. I'd say the stats look better than he's actually played. There have been some garbage numbers. I think he's been kind of average on a bad offense.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;598758]i dont hate on jc i love the guy...but what he lacks is leadership to take the game into his hands and get the win. where is the stat on 4th quarter comebacks on him[/quote]

What are the stats on 4th quarter comebacks for most QBs. Ifyou said 4th quarter it might have been acceptable. But the comebacks kind of made yoru arguement less relevant. Only because only the great ones do that. Like Favre Manning and Brady. Only a hand full are probably successful. Even these Qbs had to take some lumps to get where they are. There is no learning curve in Skins Nation and most people are unrealistic or impatient in their expectations. Brady was in the same system fo ryeas before he started. Manning was horrible his first year and okay the second year as a starter. it took years for him to win a Superbowl. His system remained intact also. Favre. If Favre was here as a young player he would never have reached his potential. He would have been ran out of town.

So all I ask is be realistic and be patient. Mannings and Brady's dont come around that often. Both Flacco and Ryan are a product of a system that is QB friendly as far as their defenses and running games go. You can also say this for the coveted Sanchez. He is not putting up big numbers. he is maintaining the game and has a very good offense.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;598766]Wrong! Stats do lie. He's not getting the team in the end zone. Not all his fault but some of it is. I'd say the stats look better than he's actually played. There have been some garbage numbers. I think he's been kind of average on a bad offense.[/quote]

Okay say stats do lie. In the list that he mentioned by the OP which one of those QBs do you think is not a good QB?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;598767]What are the stats on 4th quarter comebacks for most QBs. Ifyou said 4th quarter it might have been acceptable. But the comebacks kind of made yoru arguement less relevant. Only because only the great ones do that. Like Favre Manning and Brady. Only a hand full are probably successful. Even these Qbs had to take some lumps to get where they are. There is no learning curve in Skins Nation and most people are unrealistic or impatient in their expectations. Brady was in the same system fo ryeas before he started. Manning was horrible his first year and okay the second year as a starter. it took years for him to win a Superbowl. His system remained intact also. Favre. If Favre was here as a young player he would never have reached his potential. He would have been ran out of town.

So all I ask is be realistic and be patient. Mannings and Brady's dont come around that often. Both Flacco and Ryan are a product of a system that is QB friendly as far as their defenses and running games go. You can also say this for the coveted Sanchez. He is not putting up big numbers. he is maintaining the game and has a very good offense.[/quote]Yeah, I agree. If you want a clutch stat, don't pick one that is biased against certain players. Just take the 4th quarter split, and see how that changes the numbers.

Of course, you need many years of 4th quarter play to make it a relevant sample.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

When was the last time JC made a throw to win a game? I'm not talking about a dump pass or a quick slant either. When has he hit a streaking receiver in stride to give us the lead? I can't remember...

When was the last time JC overthrew a ball that would've resulted in a TD? Happens almost every week.

When we have one final play from our 35 yard line, We choose to run a gadget play across the middle.
The vikings were in the same situation and favre launched a rocket into his WR's hands. Don't tell me that minnesotas WR's are better than ours...

JC is so concerned about not making a bad play, he seldom makes anything other than a routine throw.
When was the last time JC threw the ball downfield in a jumpball situation? Teams do it all the time.


JC is no more to us than what Trent Dilfer was to the Ravens. He is not a bad quarterback but he is not a guy that is going to win games for you.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=redskin4n;598763]Lol besides the no huddle(Where he calls his own plays), how many times has he gotten a chance to throw it. How many times when he did throw did the reciever either drop it or not run it in after the catch. You need to start paying attention.

In my opinion its not anyOnes fault but the team as a whole. Ya know what i mean? Like how #17 & #89 were clicking, the whole team needs to do. Then well be ready for week seven.[/quote]

I think he's gotten way more time than he was getting last year. He might as well have been the tackling dummy.

I agree the line still isn't up to par, and when the pocket's collapsing there's really only so much you can do. But JC still seems to be on a learning curve as to what to do with the ball on the fly.

I by no means think he's a bad QB, in fact when he was struggling I was one of the people not calling for his head, I still don't. But I do think it looks as if he's still working on his QB mechanics.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;598742]Every thread someone is calling for campbell to be benched but his numbers are great.
1. Rating: 92.5 Higher than Brady, Big Ben, C. Palmer, Cutler, and Rivers
2. 9th in passing yards: More that Rodgers, Ryan, Palmer, E. Manning, & Cutler
3. 5th in the Comp. Percent. 67.6%: Higher than everyone in the league except P. Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Chad Penn.

[B]So what else does he have to do to be considered a good QB. The Skins have a good QB, just bad playcalling, no running game, and no O-line. Get off campbell's back[/B]. He is doing more with less better than anyone in the NFL. Check the stats the STATS don't lie![/quote]

Damn SOUP, I didn't know you where a member of the path. Shouldn't you be studying your damn play book, and getting ready for the bucs....?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[being tired of 3 year old debate]
[sarcasm on]

I would rather have Ramsey

[sarcasm off]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=jamf;598771]JC is no more to us than what Trent Dilfer was to the Ravens. He is not a bad quarterback but he is not a guy that is going to win games for you.[/quote]But Trent Dilfer was actually a bad quarterback.

Therefore, yeah, Campbell is better than him.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;598772]I think he's gotten way more time than he was getting last year. He might as well have been the tackling dummy.

I agree the line still isn't up to par, and when the pocket's collapsing there's really only so much you can do. But JC still seems to be on a learning curve as to what to do with the ball on the fly.

I by no means think he's a bad QB, in fact when he was struggling I was one of the people not calling for his head, I still don't. But I do think it looks as if he's still working on his QB mechanics.[/quote]

Ironically the offensive line might have spent to much time on pass protection and at the same time neglected run blocking. It's similar to what happened to the Patriots during their 16-0 season. They ended up neglecting the run and by the end of the season they hadn't been able to develop a rhythm when it came to the running game. Then when they came against a pass rushing beast in the New York Giants they basically found themselves to be road kill.

It's an improvement for the Redskins O-line who spent the second half of last season unable to run block or pass block but what can you expect when you neglect the offensive line in favor of premadonna receivers.

Of course the players we have at running back should shoulder some of the blame. As we saw yesterday with the Lions and Kevin Smith. When he was in the game they were unstoppable, when he got hurt they weren't even able to get past the LOS. Ironically Chris Horton taking Kevin Smith out of the game is probably the main reason we were able to stay competitive in that game.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

There were two third down plays yesterday, one near the redzone as well as the play on which he threw an interception, in which Campbell responded to pressure by ignoring open receivers - Moss and Are respectively - and throwing into coverage. And those were just the two I noticed on TV, there certainly could have been more. QB numbers matter, but as Mike Shanahan famously said you make your money as a QB in the NFL on third down, and that's where Campbell has really been struggling.

I get the argument that Campbell's supporting cast isn't helping him - hell I've made it myself for the past year - but at some point we have to start thinking about whether or not Campbell is the right player for the team we have now (which isn't getting any better anytime soon). They can't protect him and he's bad against pressure. I've seen the statistics about how prolific Campbell is when given time to throw but when is he given time to throw? And when will he be? Our line is old and the cupboard is bare. There's no budding linemen pushing the older guys to start.

So if it becomes clear that he won't be coming back next year, and wow it's going to take a lot for that not to be the case, when do we need to think about making a change?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

im not the biggest fan of campbell, i believe he is an above average qb, nothing more, but those who argue that his stats are good, therefore he is good need to remember mark brunell had some good stats while here, doesnt mean the offese was good with him at the helm.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I really like how JC has played this season. Our problem is that we can't punch it in and that's a direct function of coaching.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

WHOOOOOOOOAA!!!...I'm on tonight
You know Campbell's numbers don't lie...
And I am starting to feel you boy...

Come on let's go...real slow...
Don't you see baby the QB es perfecto!

[img]http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2007-09-14-shakiraucla.jpg[/img]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=djnemo65;598780]There were two third down plays yesterday, one near the redzone as well as the play on which he threw an interception, in which Campbell responded to pressure by ignoring open receivers - Moss and Are respectively - and throwing into coverage. And those were just the two I noticed on TV, there certainly could have been more. QB numbers matter, but as Mike Shanahan famously said you make your money as a QB in the NFL on third down, and that's where Campbell has really been struggling.

I get the argument that Campbell's supporting cast isn't helping him - hell I've made it myself for the past year - but at some point we have to start thinking about whether or not Campbell is the right player for the team we have now (which isn't getting any better anytime soon). They can't protect him and he's bad against pressure. I've seen the statistics about how prolific Campbell is when given time to throw but when is he given time to throw? And when will he be? Our line is old and the cupboard is bare. There's no budding linemen pushing the older guys to start.

So if it becomes clear that he won't be coming back next year, and wow it's going to take a lot for that not to be the case, when do we need to think about making a change?[/quote]Campbell was pretty darn good on third down in the first two games, and not so good yesterday.

QBs may earn their money on third downs, but the best third down players are also the best first and second down players.

I do agree that if this offense doesn't improve with him at the helm, there's no particular reason to give him a lot of money to oversee even more years of offensive mistakes. He's the kind of player you can build around, but if we haven't done it yet, I don't see it why we would in the future.

None of our problems have ever been about the QB position, and since we can't win with a decent quarterback, I'm thinking it might not matter whether we have one or not. We can lose a lot of games with this defense, this running game, and whoever at the helm. Doesn't really even matter if the current group fails.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Among the problems this team has, I'd put Campbell in the top 10, probably around 9. My lack of faith and trust in Zorn is such that I hope JC gets extended just to see what Shanny or Gruden can accomplish with him.

One of the posters previously noted 6 possessions where the team didn't score in the red zone that were not JC related. It's hard to blame one man for everything yet some fans are convicted to do just that.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;598742]1. Rating: 92.5 Higher than Brady, Big Ben, C. Palmer, Cutler, and Rivers[/quote]
He also has the most passing attempts in anyone in the group and the least TDs.

Again, It's not all his fault but it's pretty much the same shit that got Brunell run out of town.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=jamf;598787]Again, It's not all his fault but it's pretty much the same shit that got Brunell run out of town.[/quote]Pretty much. But that was only defensible because we had Campbell waiting in the wings. At this point, the same course of action is pretty indefensible.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;598747]The thing I wonder though is what are his numbers when the team puts the ball in his hands on 3rd down. I know as a team the Redskins are 14/37 (38%) on third downs but at the same time our opponents are over 50% against our defense with 22/43 (51%).[/quote]

JC is having a good year so far, and take that Ravens bull shit off your avatar.. I never jump on some other teams nuts when they are good..

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I do agree people need to get off his back already. Our problems right now run much deeper than who's playing QB. He's one of our lone bright spots so far.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;598791]JC is having a good year so far, and take that Ravens bull shit off your avatar.. I never jump on some other teams nuts when they are good..[/quote]


You see real quick who the TRUE fans are, I bet if WSH won yesterday that ravens avatar would be off! He's like most of these Saints "fan's" down here.. Thats SAD in my opinion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;598791]JC is having a good year so far, and take that Ravens bull shit off your avatar.. I never jump on some other teams nuts when they are good..[/quote]

I think he's part of the avatar mutiny and come on, he's from MD. If I was avatar mutiny...ing, I'd probably throw the Ravens up too. They are somewhat a hometown team. If they go to the playoffs and the Skins don't, I root for the ravens.

People that have such a problem with avatars need to find a new hobby. :doh:

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;598797]I think he's part of the avatar mutiny and come on, he's from MD. If I was avatar mutiny...ing, I'd probably throw the Ravens up too. They are somewhat a hometown team. If they go to the playoffs and the Skins don't, I root for the ravens.

People that have such a problem with avatars need to find a new hobby. :doh:[/quote]

I am usually a homer. But I hate the Ravens. They have no respect for us and we shouldn't have any for them.

If its avatar mutiny. You should just put up the NFL shield like the rest of us. Unless you lost a bet to a Ravens fan.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;598801]I am usually a homer. But I hate the Ravens. They have no respect for us and we shouldn't have any for them.

If its avatar mutiny. You should just put up the NFL shield like the rest of us. Unless you lost a bet to a Ravens fan.[/quote]

I don't like Ravens fans in general, especially the few that I knew personally were assholes, specifically around the time of ST's death.

Can't hate the team though, I think they're pretty alright. But if its Skins v. Ravens, I'm Skins all the way.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

It's not about the stats my friend is about the Wins and Losses in this league. You can be like Danny Marino, the most prolific passer in the NFL, but how many Super Bowls did he win with all those stats, and Dan had a heart of a Lion, he was gutsy and fearless, but our boy Jason, God bless his soul, because he is a good guy at heart, doesn't have the intangibles to lead or make a play when they needed the most. Look what the old man farve did yesterday with the same scenario. He made the throw that got them the win, yes the receiver made one heck of a catch, but it's called the Winners touch, you either have it or you don't! It can't be couched, it's born in you.

It could've been real ugly yesterday if the DB doesn't drop the pick for a clear touchdown, if Heyer doesn't kick the ball back to Jason when the Ghost knocked the ball out of his hands, when he dropped another fumble at the five and it bounced back to him and made a nice throw to Moss....they guy had sweating palms, that's called lack of confidence and the wheeby-geeby's.....You can't win in this league playing scared!

We need to find us a winner, with a backbone!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Build a strong team from the inside out and you won't have to worry about finding the next superstar QB who has to win you games on his arm alone.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;598797]I think he's part of the avatar mutiny and come on, he's from MD. If I was avatar mutiny...ing, I'd probably throw the Ravens up too. They are somewhat a hometown team. If they go to the playoffs and the Skins don't, I root for the ravens.

People that have such a problem with avatars need to find a new hobby. :doh:[/quote]

I'm just being real bro, pick a team then. You don't see me putting a saints avatar on mine and I used to live there