Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

The Mike Holmgren rumors and a lot more in today's edition of Smoke Signals. [URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/09/smoke-signals-the-mike-holmgren-rumors-get-louder.html"]Read it now[/URL].

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I'll be pretty pissed off if we let the Cowboys get Holmgren. I think it makes too much sense for Holmgren to come to DC.

Yes, it would be a sticky situation to have Holmgren- wanting to coach, come in overtake the job of his protege in Zorn. If Holmgren comes to DC it's either a FO position, or a HC position in which he keeps Zorn probably as his OC/QB coach, then Zorn can really focus on the offense. I just don't know if Zorn and his ego would go through his old boss coming in and stealing his show. He seems intelligent enough though to realize he's not doing the best job if the Skins finish less than .500 this season.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I would rather have gruden or shanahan , but holmgren would be a great upgrade over zorny

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

At this point bring in anyone who knows that you can't win with decrepit old lineman. Right now we need a bigger center, a pulling guard, and a run blocking RT that can hold his own in the passing game. What we have on the right side right now is a smaller center, a mauler, and a good pass blocking RT that struggles in the running game.

We also need to start using Orakpo as a DE yesterday. Plus we need to look at how GW was using Landry during the second half of his rookie year and determine if Landry's fall from the face of the earth is related more to his fundamentals or the scheme.

At the very least Holmgren will draft OL. He drafted two O-lineman in the first round from 1998-2002 and during his tenure with the Seahawks the team drafted 3 OL in the first round.

Still I would love to get a GM and a guy like Holmgren running the team.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

Regardless, are we really that much better off with Holmgren as GM and head coach? I'm not sure I see that.

If anything maybe just bring him back as a GM or Team President.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

So football isn't important in Green Bay??? They've got some of the most educated football fans in the NFL. They live sleep eat and breath football up there. But I think Holmgren is what this team needs. Now if we could get him as our coach and get rid of Vinny then we're on our way!

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599899]I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

Regardless, are we really that much better off with Holmgren as GM and head coach? I'm not sure I see that.

If anything maybe just bring him back as a GM or Team President.[/quote]

I agree, one or the other. He almost got himself fired in Seattle when he had the GM/HC dual roles.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599899]I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

Regardless, are we really that much better off with Holmgren as GM and head coach? I'm not sure I see that.

If anything maybe just bring him back as a GM or Team President.[/quote]

Actually in looking at a quick rundown of Holmgren's picks a lot of them weren't so bad. Thanks to Holmgren the team brought in Darrell Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, Koren Robinson, Steve Hutchinson, Floyd Womack, Rocky Bernard, Ken Lucas, Heath Evans, Alex Bannister, and Ahman Green (though he was obviously traded). I'll be the first to admit his first two years sucked at picking players but his last two actually helped set the stage for a Super Bowl run.

[quote=SmootSmack;599899]I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

[/quote]

But but....Cleveland haz Mangenius.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599899]I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

Regardless, are we really that much better off with Holmgren as GM and head coach? I'm not sure I see that.

If anything maybe just bring him back as a GM or Team President.[/quote]

Well he basically lost GM privileges in Seattle right? That's not a good sign.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;599906]Actually in looking at a quick rundown of Holmgren's picks a lot of them weren't so bad. Thanks to Holmgren the team brought in Darrell Jackson, Matt Hasselbeck, Koren Robinson, Steve Hutchinson, Floyd Womack, Rocky Bernard, Ken Lucas, Heath Evans, Alex Bannister, and Ahman Green (though he was obviously traded). I'll be the first to admit his first two years sucked at picking players but his last two actually helped set the stage for a Super Bowl run.[/quote]

It is so much more than drafting though. I'd argue our selection of talent hasn't been poor anyways. Perhaps our lack of focus on the lines is misguided but nothing about Holmgren says he focuses on the lines all that much either. He seems like a more lateral move to me.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I don't think Gruden is the right fit here..and besides he's pretty much won with established teams who were "close". I'm not sure how close we are.

If they brought Holmgren in, I wouldn't mind seeing Zorn stay. But you're right Matty, it has to be one or the other with Holmgren. Not GM and coach.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Here's a good timeline of Holmgren's time as GM in Seattle

[url=http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/Holmgren%20GM%20Timeline.htm]TIMELINE: HOLMGREN AS GM (1999-2002)[/url]

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=FRPLG;599909]It is so much more than drafting though. I'd argue our selection of talent hasn't been poor anyways. Perhaps our lack of focus on the lines is misguided but nothing about Holmgren says he focuses on the lines all that much either. He seems like a more lateral move to me.[/quote]

I counted 8 OL and 7 DL drafted by the Seahawks from 1998-2002, the same years that Holmgren served as GM. Thats a little over 1 per year.

If we go back to the Redskins since 2004 we find 3 OL and 5 DL selected by the Redskins leading to an average of less then 1 per year, in fact it's hovering near .5 lineman drafted per year when you split up the different sides of the ball. I know no one is arguing that the Redskins draft a bunch of OL but I definately see Holmgren's track record as an improvement. Plus the crazy thing is while Holmgren was GM the Seahawks kept all their picks.

Keep in mind I still want a real GM to work with Holmgren but at the same time Holmgren serving as GM isn't the end of the world.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Yeah but what about serving as both GM and coach? His last three years in that dual role the Seahawks had two losing seasons and missed the playoffs all three years.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I'd gladly take Holmgren over Shanahan though if we're talking GMs.

I'm not worried that Holmgren is going to spend a 3rd round pick on a Maurice Clarett

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I look at it like this:
Shannahan should be our next head coach, because he's know for his great running schemes, which is what the redskins have been known for, for years. If he were to go to dallas, then we'd be screwed IMO, cause they have a great OL and Romo I think is a great bootleg QB.
Holmgren would be my next choice, but A) we already have a WC offense which doesn't suit us if you ask me. B) If he went to Dallas, I don't think they'd be that good, simply because I don't see Romo as a WC QB. They'd be much scarrier and deadlier with shanahan running the show down there than holmgren.
Gruden is just a worse version of Holmgren. So he'd be my next choice after the first two.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599915]Here's a good timeline of Holmgren's time as GM in Seattle

[URL="http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/Holmgren%20GM%20Timeline.htm"]TIMELINE: HOLMGREN AS GM (1999-2002)[/URL][/quote]

All I saw was this.

August 19, 2002 - Veteran QB Mark Rypien is signed after Dilfer suffers a knee injury.


Guy is money :D


However I guess that Holmgren is more proned to burnout right now at 61 then was when he was in his 50's. So like I said bring in Holmgren and get him a quality GM to help him run the team then get a restraining order against Daniel Snyder.

[quote=SmootSmack;599924]I'd gladly take Holmgren over Shanahan though if we're talking GMs.

I'm not worried that Holmgren is going to spend a 3rd round pick on a Maurice Clarett[/quote]

Plus Shannahan never had the foresight to sign Mark Rypien.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

is Cowher out of the question. IF so why? What do you guys think we need the most. A Defensive or Offensive minded coach?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=12thMan;599911]I don't think Gruden is the right fit here..and besides he's pretty much won with established teams who were "close". I'm not sure how close we are.

If they brought Holmgren in, I wouldn't mind seeing Zorn stay. But you're right Matty, it has to be one or the other with Holmgren. Not GM and coach.[/quote]


Can you think of a good reason why Holmgren would want to come here seeing the treatment Zorn is getting, except for the fact it will probably pay him well?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;599945]is Cowher out of the question. IF so why? What do you guys think we need the most. A defensive or Offensive inded coach?[/quote]

He'll be out of question because he wants full control over the front office and Vinny and Dan want there words of advice over his. Plus we need an offensive minded coach, because or defense really isn't that much of a problem, our offense is the one that can't score in the redzone

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I oppose any new head coach move without a front office change. Without a new GM and a traditional GM role, you get an upgraded coach with the same organizational dysfunction. I am also not in favor of Mike Holmgren doing both roles. Go back to the traditional redskin approach that led to Superbowls. get yourself a good GM, hire a good Coach, then rebuild the franchise.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;599948]He'll be out of question because he wants full control over the front office and Vinny and Dan want there words of advice over his. Plus we need an offensive minded coach, because or defense really isn't that much of a problem, our offense is the one that can't score in the redzone[/quote]

Well both of our units are ranked 14th in the NFL.

I think both sides of the team are issues. teh defense definitely does not get a free pass.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;599949]I oppose any new head coach move without a front office change. Without a new GM and a traditional GM role, you get an upgraded coach with the same organizational dysfunction. I am also not in favor of Mike Holmgren doing both roles. Go back to the traditional redskin approach that led to Superbowls. get yourself a good GM, hire a good Coach, then rebuild the franchise.[/quote]


I agree, and if I'm a prospective hire considering taking a job with this team, I'm going to want assurances going foreward that management will be committed to building the franchise the way it should be done. If I don't see that committment, then count me out, I'm not going to be just another statistic to come here for a couple years and get fired like all the rest.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599924]I'd gladly take Holmgren over Shanahan though if we're talking GMs.

I'm not worried that Holmgren is going to spend a 3rd round pick on a Maurice Clarett[/quote]Assuming Zorn finishes out the year here and walks away with a records between say 7-9 and 9-7, what about keeping Zorn but canning Cerrato (that felt good to write) and hiring Holmgren to replace him.

That way you end up with a HC and GM who are on a very similar wavelength in terms of how to set up and run the offense. Plus, I would assume that Zorn has a lot of respect for Holmgren so if the GM wanted to hand play calling duties over to someone else Zorn may not have a problem with it.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;599897]What we have on the right side right now is a smaller center, a mauler, and a [B]good pass blocking RT that struggles in the running game[/B].[/quote]

Thats the funniest thing Ive read all week, you gotta be a Maryland fan. Heyer is a decent back-up at best, no way should he be starting. Look at the tape!!!

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;599899]I wouldn't discount Cleveland and Buffalo as options for Holmgren.

Regardless, are we really that much better off with Holmgren as GM and head coach? I'm not sure I see that.

If anything maybe just bring him back as a GM or Team President.[/quote]

I don't know. I respect Holmgren. I know he did good things in GB, but ....I don't know. Holmgren reminds me of Andy Reid chasing his tail trying to win the big one. I know I keep preaching Marty Schottenheimer who kinda has done the same thing but putting him in a GM roll and having his son be HC who has proven his system can put up the yrds and TD's is what I would like to see. but who am I?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Holmgren and casserly will complement each other!

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;599945]is Cowher out of the question. IF so why? What do you guys think we need the most. A Defensive or Offensive minded coach?[/quote]

We need both. Prior to Zorn our D was good so obviously we needed an offensive minded HC to get it moving. Now our D is starting to have trouble.

Honestly I don't think it matters as much as other people think it does. It's kinda obvious, If you have an awsome offense then the team needs to score more points then it's opponants (Like the Patriots did), If you have an awsome defense then you need to keep the score low for you offense (Like Pitt has).

I often wonder the similar thing when people are saying "Our D needs to get a 3 and out so they can get off the field or they will get tired." Does the offense not get tired if they are on the field all day? I know all about action and reaction, meaning the D in reaction mode might be a second late due to reaction time but I have to imagine offensive lineman get exhausted also. I have to imagine they need a moment to rest up on the bench also? No?

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=jamf;599978]Holmgren and casserly will complement each other![/quote]

It sounds good, but it looks too much like our coaching staff right now. Casserly is a Gibbs product knowing what types of players fit that system. Holmgren is from a totally different tree. That's part of our problem with our coaching staff right now, or so I believe.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;599945]is Cowher out of the question. IF so why? What do you guys think we need the most. A Defensive or Offensive minded coach?[/quote]

He will be when he becomes Carolina's new coach.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=FRPLG;599985]He will be when he becomes Carolina's new coach.[/quote]
I think he just bought a house in N.C.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=Hog1;599996]I think he just bought a house in N.C.[/quote]

Exactly. He's lined up for the job. And it is his type of team.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

I would love Holmgren as GM and letting him pick the coach. I agree that he has a bad track record doing both jobs.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

It's got to be Gruden if the GM/Head coach are going to be the same body. Shanahan, Holmgren have both failed in that role, and I just don't think Cowher is a good coach, plain and simple.

None of these options are more appealing to me than Zorn, but if they bring their entire staffs with them, at least the whole team would be better coached than it is right now.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=GTripp0012;600051]It's got to be Gruden if the GM/Head coach are going to be the same body. Shanahan, Holmgren have both failed in that role, and I just don't think Cowher is a good coach, plain and simple.

None of these options are more appealing to me than Zorn, but if they bring their entire staffs with them, at least the whole team would be better coached than it is right now.[/quote]

What makes you think Gruden would do well in a dual capacity? Better than say Brian Billick (just to throw a name out there)

I think Cowher would be a good head coach because he would probably do like he did in Pittsburgh and Gibbs at least tried to do here. And that is he would hire proven coordinators while he oversees everything.

How he would do as a GM is up for debate

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600056]What makes you think Gruden would do well in a dual capacity? Better than say Brian Billick (just to throw a name out there)

I think Cowher would be a good head coach because he would probably do like he did in Pittsburgh and Gibbs at least tried to do here. And that is he would hire proven coordinators while he oversees everything.

How he would do as a GM is up for debate[/quote]I think Gruden conceptually understands the concept of replaceability better than most coaches, even most GMs. He wouldn't be married to Santana Moss for another three seasons because the guy has held a "no. 1 receiver" role before. He gets quality productivity out of guys like Ike Hilliard who don't cost anything. And he understands that, if Jason Campbell isn't the answer, he doesn't have to invest a top 5 pick to find a franchise QB.

Now, this leads to some maddening tendencies, like having to try out eighty billion different QBs who probably aren't the answer to find one guy who is, and that can lead to 4-12 seasons deflated by the Bruce Gradkowski's of the world.

But I believe he's also the kind of coach (and this is just an example, not something I advocate) who can spend a pick at the bottom of the second round on a guy like Tim Tebow and then quickly turn a punchless offense into one tailored for his strengths. I also believe with the money we already have tied up in defense, going with someone who isn't Greg Blache and maybe adding a piece at linebacker or defensive back can get this defense back to where we expect it to be. Gruden is a guy who can transform the offense overnight (and cheaply), and can make us competitive in 2010.

My number one choice is that we win 10 games this year with Jason Campbell taking the league by storm and Jim Zorn growing into the roles he currently holds and learning how to coach an entire football team.

My number two choice is Jon Gruden.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Holgrem said he wants to be on the east coast, and mentioned Skins, Eagles, and Giants as places he would like to coach, b/c those cities are so focused on football. Don't rule out Cowher yet. Until Cerrato goes, who we have coaching might not make a difference.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600056]What makes you think Gruden would do well in a dual capacity? Better than say Brian Billick (just to throw a name out there)

I think Cowher would be a good head coach because he would probably do like he did in Pittsburgh and Gibbs at least tried to do here. And that is he would hire proven coordinators while he oversees everything.

How he would do as a GM is up for debate[/quote]I think if you told me that you had been to the future and we had already hired Bill Cowher, I would say: "I think that can work, but only if he comes in and keeps Jason Campbell."

Then you'd tell me that we didn't, and I would predict 5-11 with a worse offense than we had this year (and a better defense).

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

The fact that Cowher bought a house in N.C. doesn't really matter. He is from N.C., and his daughters go to school there. Just becasue a guy buys a house doesn't mean that is where he is going to coach. Who knows if Bill will even come back? No one. Besides is Carolina going to pay him the kind of money he will want? Doubt that to. Having a debate over who we would like to have as our next head coach if fine, but bringing up facts that really have no bearing and are all conjecture where coach a or b is going to land is irrelevent.

Re: Smoke Signals: The Mike Holmgren rumors get louder
 

Well as of yesterday Gruden has said he's not interested. But a package Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden deal is intriguing. Though Gruden wears out his welcome with players rather easily, as I understand it.

I'm not sold on Shanahan as a GM. Not sold on Cowher as a GM. Don't know how I feel about Holmgren as a head coach (for the long term). None of the frequently mentioned candidates really appeal to me at this point.