Commanders Post at The Warpath

Commanders Post at The Warpath (http://www.thewarpath.net/forum.php)
-   Locker Room Main Forum (http://www.thewarpath.net/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=32480)

GTripp0012 10-07-2009 09:55 PM

Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Short one this week: they didn't do much wrong.

-----------------------------

Why does Justin Tryon make a difference? Should he? Will it matter once we play a team with more than 2 NFL competent wide receivers?

I'll try not to bite off anymore than I can chew. Tryon may not yet even be an adequate nickelback in the NFL yet. But when he gets to play, the Redskins at least give the illusion that they have a deep, talented secondary built almost entirely through the NFL draft in the last five years, with the exception of DeAngelo Hall. And when the Redskins' secondary is working, the rest of the puzzle comes together quite nicely.

All of a sudden, the Redskins defense is no longer a bunch of underachievers. It's got Reed Doughty, who is a great fundamental tackler, Chris Horton, more effective in the box than most LBs, Kareem Moore, whose range in the deep secondary frees up LaRon Landry for some in the box play, Rogers, Hall, and Tryon.

Justin Tryon may never develop into anything more than a nickelback, and he hardly has to do so to be worth his draft position. With the first sack by a Redskins defensive back in 2009, he becomes the first Redskins cornerback to get a sack since Greg Blache became defensive coordinator.

[B]Zone coverin' Greg Blache

[/B][FONT=-editor-proxy]The Redskins are blitzing much, much less then they were last year, which was effective this week because the Redskins did not drop Brian Orakpo into coverage 80% of the time. In fact, Orakpo played more defensive line than he had at any point in the past three games. He recorded his second career sack, both coming from the down lineman position.

What's the difference? Simple really: the Redskins played less 4-3 defense when they decided in the gameplan that they were going to have to use a lot of zone underneath coverage to slow down Josh Johnson. This rose the frequency that the Redskins used their Nickel, Cobra, and Dime coverages. In every one of those schemes, Orakpo moves to the defensive line. And the Redskins are a much better defense for it.

The other thing the Redskins did with their zone coverages was that they played Kareem Moore as the free safety for his first significant playing time of the season, and let Landry play in the box. He's still a horrific tackler, that LaRon Landry, but he's a player that offenses actually have to gameplan around when he's in the box, instead of just not putting any deep post routes in the gameplan during the week.

Blache did one other thing with his zone coverage that was probably his best improvement: he stopped the stupid "two corners on the same side" in the base coverage routine, opting instead to take the strong safety and line him up over the slot receiver like a normal defensive playcaller. It's an easy way to keep an eight man near the box without having to worry about defensive ends containing on the weak side and still having to rush the passer.

I'd love to give Greg Blache credit for everything he did right this week, but the last time I did that, he went out the next week and couldn't figure out how to keep a rookie quarterback who can't throw an accurate pass from converting 3rd and 13s. So this time, I'll note the positives and bite my tongue.

[B]Defensive Hog Hits

[/B]Some notes on this shorter than expected because-I-have-nothing-to-complain-about defensive review.

[/FONT][LIST][*]Defensive line play is still night and day when Haynesworth isn't in there, but Blache has apparently figured out that the pass rushing team of Orakpo, Haynesworth, Griffin/Jarmon, and Andre Carter/Chris Wilson is his best third down team. That's probably correct.[*]Carlos Rogers seems back to his normal self in coverage, but my god man, catch the football![*]DeAngelo Hall now made it two straight weeks without a reception allowed of over 10 yards. Then again, that's against Matt Stafford and Josh Johnson.[*]Doughty over Horton is the right call. It's close, but Doughty is the better player.[*]Rocky McIntosh has been a very easy completion in the early stages of this season, but at least he's been a sure tackler.[*]The Redskins are doing a much better job covering backs this year than last. It's not going to be mentioned anywhere else, but the job that McIntosh and Fletcher and Doughty did against Cadillac Williams in the passing game probably made all the difference in the W-L column.[*]2-2, two more weeks to get things right before Philly. Time for Greg Blache to prove he's not the reincarnation of old 50-50.[/LIST]

hooskins 10-07-2009 10:35 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Nice stuff. Why the font change in the middle of the post?

I still am unsure how we will fair against better offenses and olines.

GTripp0012 10-07-2009 10:42 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=hooskins;604117]Nice stuff. Why the font change in the middle of the post?

I still am unsure how we will fair against better offenses and olines.[/quote]I have no idea why the font did that. It looks normal in my edit window.

Chico23231 10-07-2009 10:53 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Great job GTripp. Yeah I was thrilled with the effort on D this past week. Keep Tryon in the game over Smoot in the Nickle all day Blache!!! Reed was just impressive. I need more Jarmon in passing situations, he has really surprised me. Its suppose to rain this weekend and Sunday for the game, so I think this really favors our D, and will at least slow up Steve Smith and D. Williams, both those guys are really quick and big play muther phuckers.

RedBar 10-08-2009 04:01 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Watched the game read your posts, somewhere there is a village missing their ax grinder first place I'd look would be Grand Rapids.

SmootSmack 10-08-2009 09:13 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=RedBar;604155]Watched the game read your posts, somewhere there is a village missing their ax grinder first place I'd look would be Grand Rapids.[/quote]

It's not personal, I'm sure

SmootSmack 10-08-2009 09:17 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
I'm glad to see the team feeling more comfortable getting Tryon significant playing time and packages (granted it was against Josh Johnson and the Bucs, but everyone's got to start somewhere).

It wouldn't surprise me if moving forward, depending on the matchup, we start to see Smoot on the inactive list.

Kareem Moore is really the wildcard here, because if he suddenly starts to get it (which indications are he does), it really opens up a lot of possibilities for us.

Rajmahal33 10-08-2009 09:36 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Good post, i haven't noticed but are there any sets where the skins have Landry, Moore, and Horton/Doughty on the field at the same time? Or some combination of that? It seems to me that our safety spots overall have more talent and depth than our CB's. Has Barnes been seeing any action? I think Barnes needs to see some more action too b/c his draft position would seem to suggest that we have a lot more riding on his development.

CrazyCanuck 10-08-2009 10:39 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Great thread Gtripp, offense too.

Slingin Sammy 33 10-08-2009 11:54 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
As always great info, well done. Thanks.

GTripp0012 10-08-2009 11:56 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=SmootSmack;604191]Kareem Moore is really the wildcard here, because if he suddenly starts to get it (which indications are he does), it really opens up a lot of possibilities for us.[/quote]Yeah, a whole lot of things. It would basically make the limited LB depth a non-issue.

Slingin Sammy 33 10-08-2009 11:57 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=RedBar;604155]Watched the game read your posts, somewhere there is a village missing their ax grinder first place I'd look would be Grand Rapids.[/quote]???? The folks in Baton Rouge appear to be missing someone else a village often misses....

RedBar 10-08-2009 07:54 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Sammy even the village idiot can see Tripps biases. Sorry if you cannot.

GTripp0012 10-08-2009 08:16 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=RedBar;604421]Sammy even the village idiot can see Tripps biases. Sorry if you cannot.[/quote]Except that you seem to lack the basic skills necessary to separate strong opinion from having an agenda. My methodology is on the table for everyone to see, and they can disagree with me on the points where they see it differently. Your inability to see that says nothing about me whatsoever.

SmootSmack 10-08-2009 10:30 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=RedBar;604421]Sammy even the village idiot can see Tripps biases. Sorry if you cannot.[/quote]

I thought that about Tripp last year, but this season I think he's been much more objective and willing to admit errors

But you know and I know you have specific biases as well, understandably so

MTK 10-09-2009 08:29 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=RedBar;604421]Sammy even the village idiot can see Tripps biases. Sorry if you cannot.[/quote]

If you have a different view on things feel free to offer up your thoughts rather than taking a shot at the guy for watching the tape and telling us what he thinks.

freddyg12 10-09-2009 08:35 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Great job tripp. I'm also pulling for K. Moore, I thought he looked really promising in limited time last year & was disappointed that in the first few games he didn't play.

So your comment about the d. line play when AH isn't in; I hadn't noticed it being much different. I have noticed that several run plays have gone by AH's gap as he shoots upfield. Of course, if that's his assignment or the "freelancing" that blache has allowed, then you can't blame him.

30gut 10-09-2009 10:23 AM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=GTripp0012;604099] Kareem Moore, whose range in the deep secondary frees up LaRon Landry for some in the box play, Rogers, Hall, and Tryon............................The other thing the Redskins did with their zone coverages was that they played Kareem Moore as the free safety for his first significant playing time of the season, and let Landry play in the box. He's still a horrific tackler, that LaRon Landry, but he's a player that offenses actually have to gameplan around when he's in the box, instead of just not putting any deep post routes in the gameplan during the week.
[/quote]

I don't understand the benefit of playing Landry in the box or why teams would gameplan around him when tackling remains an issue for him.

I would consider benching Landry for awhile to get his mind right or finding out if Moore can be effective in playing in the box SS w/ Landry staying at FS.
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bIEbjz3nr3GG/520x.jpg[/IMG]
It would give the base defense package flexibility in match-ups with 2 safeties that can cover on the field together.
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0b3q58M7KMgOn/520x.jpg[/IMG]

The Goat 10-09-2009 04:32 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
Tripp I have a follow-up question from the last two games/reviews. Is the Orakpo experiment at SLB something Blache is finally veering away from? Wondering if you've counted how many snaps Rak is taking at the position each game? I mean if we're a better defense when he's on the line why try to force more of the LB thing. Also there's nothing wrong w/ swapping AC and Rak at RDE.

warriorzpath 10-09-2009 04:47 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=SmootSmack;604445]I thought that about Tripp last year, but this season I think he's been much more objective and willing to admit errors

But you know and I know you have specific biases as well, understandably so[/quote]

I have to admit that GTripp does a LOT of work doing analysis. If he were more objective, he probably would be able to land a job in football. It seems that he is too biased though. But yeah we all have biases, so I can't really say too much about that.

GTripp0012 10-09-2009 05:25 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=The Goat;604762]Tripp I have a follow-up question from the last two games/reviews. Is the Orakpo experiment at SLB something Blache is finally veering away from? Wondering if you've counted how many snaps Rak is taking at the position each game? I mean if we're a better defense when he's on the line why try to force more of the LB thing. Also there's nothing wrong w/ swapping AC and Rak at RDE.[/quote]Orakpo doesn't play on 100% of the plays, but its something close to that number. Maybe 85%.

He's not playing SLB less frequently when the Redskins are in their base 4-3, but the team is in the 4-3 less frequently then it has been in the past.

Blache is probably the only defensive coordinator in the league who doesn't match his defensive personnel with the offensive personnel. It's quite common, actually, probably standard for the opponent to get into 3 WRs, and the Redskins to show a 4-3 front. Our defensive response is to back off the blitz when this happens and get into a sort of cover three defense, which more or less puts Orakpo and/or McIntosh one on one with a back in any sort of coverage scheme.

In the offseason, I previewed how our 4-3 defense could prevent major issues for teams in 3 WR sets because if your OL has to match up with 5 pass rushers, you can't really pick that up and expect to win your one on ones. But our coverage woes have cornered Blache into dropping into a cover two or cover three look, and that's more or less how the Lions beat us.

We're starting to get away from those 4-3 fronts with the Cobra and Dime formations. This puts Orakpo on the DL, and allows you to blitz Landry if you so choose. The problems are still similar: you can match up McIntosh against a back one on one and chip away at the Redskins 7 yards at a time. But the Cobra formation is a better use of our personnel, and is a more versatile formation in general. If Blache isn't going to match his personnel with the offenses personnel, going with 5 or 6 DBs allows him to stay in that formation no matter what the offensive personnel is, and stay out of terrible mismatches.

This is not really about the Orakpo experiment necessarily. Orakpo at OLB was a nice idea in theory, just like Jason Taylor at OLB was. But because of the issues in the secondary, we went from a situaiton where we expected the defense to dicate to the offense that they needed to be careful not to get their QBs hurt, to completely playing on our heels and allowing mismatches all over the field.

A full time move to a 4-2-5 base defense would fit our personnel fantastic. If we're going to be in the 4-3 at all, we've got to have good enough secondary play to blitz Orakpo as we feel fit, and still feel confident that we can win on the outside. Rogers and Hall are starting to develop as a DB tandem, but in the interim, I'd use Doughty, Moore, and Horton to try to stop opposing offenses.

53Fan 10-09-2009 06:31 PM

Re: Redskins vs Bucs Defensive Review: Tryon Something New
 
[quote=GTripp0012;604774]Orakpo doesn't play on 100% of the plays, but its something close to that number. Maybe 85%.

He's not playing SLB less frequently when the Redskins are in their base 4-3, but the team is in the 4-3 less frequently then it has been in the past.

Blache is probably the only defensive coordinator in the league who doesn't match his defensive personnel with the offensive personnel. It's quite common, actually, probably standard for the opponent to get into 3 WRs, and the Redskins to show a 4-3 front. Our defensive response is to back off the blitz when this happens and get into a sort of cover three defense, which more or less puts Orakpo and/or McIntosh one on one with a back in any sort of coverage scheme.

In the offseason, I previewed how our 4-3 defense could prevent major issues for teams in 3 WR sets because if your OL has to match up with 5 pass rushers, you can't really pick that up and expect to win your one on ones. But our coverage woes have cornered Blache into dropping into a cover two or cover three look, and that's more or less how the Lions beat us.

We're starting to get away from those 4-3 fronts with the Cobra and Dime formations. This puts Orakpo on the DL, and allows you to blitz Landry if you so choose. The problems are still similar: you can match up McIntosh against a back one on one and chip away at the Redskins 7 yards at a time. But the Cobra formation is a better use of our personnel, and is a more versatile formation in general. If Blache isn't going to match his personnel with the offenses personnel, going with 5 or 6 DBs allows him to stay in that formation no matter what the offensive personnel is, and stay out of terrible mismatches.

This is not really about the Orakpo experiment necessarily. Orakpo at OLB was a nice idea in theory, just like Jason Taylor at OLB was. But because of the issues in the secondary, we went from a situaiton where we expected the defense to dicate to the offense that they needed to be careful not to get their QBs hurt, to completely playing on our heels and allowing mismatches all over the field.

A full time move to a 4-2-5 base defense would fit our personnel fantastic. If we're going to be in the 4-3 at all, we've got to have good enough secondary play to blitz Orakpo as we feel fit, and still feel confident that we can win on the outside. [B] Rogers and Hall are starting to develop as a DB tandem, but in the interim, I'd use Doughty, Moore, and Horton to try to stop opposing offenses[/B].[/quote]

Nice post GTripp. I agree.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We have no official affiliation with the Washington Commanders or the NFL.

Page generated in 2.11996 seconds with 9 queries