BENCH Brunell/Theisman? MORE HISTORY!!
 

There have been a lot of calls for Brunell to sit. Maybe it is a good idea - I would sure not be against it if it happened at this point. But here is a little more HISTORY (from MY perspective LOL)

In 1985, after Theisman had had some very successful seasons under Joe Gibbs, he started playing terribly. He had NUMEROUS passes batted at the line - refused to get air under them. Had Numerous sort passes thrown into the ground. Gibbs stuck with him even though fans were clamoring for a change. We had a GREAT team but were 5-5 going into the Giants game. I actually made a bet with a Giants fan, that LT would knock Theisman out of the game, Schroeder would come in and win it and take us back to the playoffs. It became GRUESOMELY true (except our 10-6 still did not get a playoff spot). Because of that horrible sight on the field, I have never again made ANY kind of football bet.

But the point I meant to make and strayed from is this:

JOE GIBBS DOES NOT LIKE TO CHANGE HIS STARTING QB. So we all need to be patient.

I LOVE Joe Gibbs as a coach. Second only to Lombardi in my mind. But everyone has imperfections, and this may be his. Just be patient. He will find a way to bring this team around - in his own way.

maybe someone needs to break brunells leg so gibbs will wake up and get him outta there

I don't care what anyone says, Brunell sucks. I know every QB has a blind side but I think Brunell is literally blind in his right eye like that jockey in "Seabiscuit". He gets hammered from the right constantly! His passes look like he's throwing under water. Get him out already!! I'll take my chances with Ramsey. I would rather leave the defense in to play offense than more of this crap.

[QUOTE=denim_monger]maybe someone needs to break brunells leg so gibbs will wake up and get him outta there[/QUOTE]
:iamwithst

It seems to me Gibbs is having a hard time saying he was wrong. Brunell is done.

[QUOTE=denim_monger]maybe someone needs to break brunells leg so gibbs will wake up and get him outta there[/QUOTE]
Hey, I've spent 19 years feeling personally responsible (even though, intellectually, I knew I was not) for that last one because of the very specific bet I made that came true. I will not EVER even suggest something similar again!!

(By the way, I refused to accept my winnings on that last one with Tom Ulan of Fairfax - a fellow IBM'er)

Hogskin, you could just make a bet like "The Redskins will win their next 19 consecutive games" without any mention of an injury

Tell you what I'll bet you that the Skins won't win their next 19 games...only the next 18 ;)

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Hogskin, you could just make a bet like "The Redskins will win their next 19 consecutive games" without any mention of an injury

Tell you what I'll bet you that the Skins won't win their next 19 games...only the next 18 ;)[/QUOTE]

hahahahhahahaha

I like the way you think, Smack. Actually, I swore off completely. I had a decent (not great) history of bets before that. But that bet (including the broken leg) was made in front of an entire lunch group (about a dozen guys). I never lived it down. LOL It was like I caused it!! So, I'll stick to my guns...

[QUOTE=Hogskin]There have been a lot of calls for Brunell to sit. Maybe it is a good idea - I would sure not be against it if it happened at this point. But here is a little more HISTORY (from MY perspective LOL)

In 1985, after Theisman had had some very successful seasons under Joe Gibbs, he started playing terribly. He had NUMEROUS passes batted at the line - refused to get air under them. Had Numerous sort passes thrown into the ground. Gibbs stuck with him even though fans were clamoring for a change. We had a GREAT team but were 5-5 going into the Giants game. I actually made a bet with a Giants fan, that LT would knock Theisman out of the game, Schroeder would come in and win it and take us back to the playoffs. It became GRUESOMELY true (except our 10-6 still did not get a playoff spot). Because of that horrible sight on the field, I have never again made ANY kind of football bet.

But the point I meant to make and strayed from is this:

JOE GIBBS DOES NOT LIKE TO CHANGE HIS STARTING QB. So we all need to be patient.

I LOVE Joe Gibbs as a coach. Second only to Lombardi in my mind. But everyone has imperfections, and this may be his. Just be patient. He will find a way to bring this team around - in his own way.[/QUOTE]

Great point, I was going to mention that last night, but I have been screaming about everything else, I forgot, because I was thinking that very thing, I was going to compare the way Brunell is playing, to the way Joey T. was playing before LT broke his leg, he couldn't find the open reciever, and kept holding the ball, then schroeder came in and started lighting it up, you new it was Theisman, and not our reciever's inability to get open, I am starting to wonder, Gibb's alway's want's a strong armed QB, he need's them to make all the throw's, especially the deep routes, which in turn open's up the rest of the offense, theisman had good arm strength, not great, as he got older he prob. lost just enough where he couldn't get the ball down field in time, which in turn allowed the defense to take away the short game, I see the same thing going on with Brunell, and we all saw Ramsey getting the ball down field, regardless of the INT's, I said he was perfect for Gibb's style from the start, and I am not budging, Brunell's deep passes are either out of bound's, or jump ball's, as far as Im concerned he's made 1 great throw, and that was to the back of the end zone for a TD to Gardner, on the scramble against the Boy's.

Nice jog with that HS!

I said in another post that Gibb's is very loyal to his starter's, but Joey T. was a special situation, he went to 2 SB's and won 1, I never blamed him for sticking with him as he did, Joey T. earned it. Brunell? what has he done for us other than help kill our cap! Gibb's has to swallow his pride on this one for now, and start Ramsey.

Gibbs won't bench his QB if he believes he's not the source of the problems. And at this point I can't honestly say Brunell is the main source of our offensive struggles and I think Gibbs is probably thinking along the same lines.

Like I said in another thread, my take is Brunell will start again in Chicago. If the offense is just as inept as it's been, Gibbs might not have a choice but to look to shake things up a bit and make a switch at QB.

I don't think this is a case of Gibbs being stubborn, if Ramsey was the clear cut better player he'd be in there already.

[QUOTE=denim_monger]maybe someone needs to break brunells leg so gibbs will wake up and get him outta there[/QUOTE]


I said at the time LT broke Joey T's leg, we should send him a bonus, we all knew that was the only way Gibb's was going to lift him.

Thanks, offiss.

Matty, I tend to agree with you. And I really doubt he will make a halftime switch. He also does not seem to like to make mid-game changes. But would be more likely to at the BYE break, if he wants to change.

gibbs knows what he is doing,he ai'nt in the nfl HOF for being stupid.could the fact that brunnel is left handed and gibbs has never coached a lefty have something to do with it?i do'nt think changing qbs would matter,but at this point if starting tom tupa would give us a victory,i 'd be all for it.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Thanks, offiss.

Matty, I tend to agree with you. And I really doubt he will make a halftime switch. He also does not seem to like to make mid-game changes. But would be more likely to at the BYE break, if he wants to change.[/QUOTE]
That's what I meant, the switch after the bye.

:thumb:

only non injury time i remember gibbs taking a qb out of a game was in 1987 against the lions,when he benched jay schroder and put williams in.then he switched back after a mnf loss to the rams,and made the switch permanent in the last game of the year,which happened to be an overtime victory against the vikings.the rest is skins history.

On the subject of QB switches.....I need a refresher:
In '87 I know that Schroeder was the QB for most of the season, but Williams obviously led the Skins to the SB victory. Was Schroeder hurt or did Gibbs just make the switch?
Any info on this would help....my memory sucks....

[QUOTE]I don't think this is a case of Gibbs being stubborn, if Ramsey was the clear cut better player he'd be in there already.[/QUOTE]

That might not be the case HG, obviously as we stated with the Theisman, Schroeder, scenerio, but I do think he expected Brunell to much better than he is, is he happy where Brunell is at this point? No, but he may have over estimated the gap between the 2 player's, assuming the veteran would be much better off than a young Ramsey.

I'm not saying this would happen, but it can always be spun as an injury induced benching

"Mark just isn't fully healed from his hamstring injury, we think a couple of weeks off (including the bye week) might give him the rest he needs"

Then you just go from there

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]On the subject of QB switches.....I need a refresher:
In '87 I know that Schroeder was the QB for most of the season, but Williams obviously led the Skins to the SB victory. Was Schroeder hurt or did Gibbs just make the switch?
Any info on this would help....my memory sucks....[/QUOTE]

I know at one point Schroeder had been hurt, but I don't remember if it was directly linked to him being pulled, Gibb's has the ability to make QB's look more talented than they really are, and other than Theisman he really didn't have a real instinctive QB, he took guy's with strong arm's and made them QB's, well Ramsey is an instinctive QB with all the intangables, he's more talented than any QB Gibb's has had.

Now that I think of it, I think he was pulled, I remember William's coming in the second half of a game and doing pretty well and that's when the controversy started.

schroeder for lachey was a great trade! we should be so lucky to make another one like that...

i don't want to wish an injury on a starter, but i wouldn't mind ramsey getting more playing time... i'm getting sick of brunell's crap passes right now...

I want to know who was theismans backup at the time ,Babe Laughenburg?

in 1985 it was Jay Schroeder

woah... during brett favre's 213 game starting streak, 173 different QBs have been named starters in the league... thats a lot ;)

I say we call up Tampa Bay and trade Brunell AND Tupa(And we'll throw in a Betts in need of blocking classes)for Johnson and McCardell since neither of them will EVER suit up for Gruden again.Plus the fact that TB is in need of a QB and a RB with the losses of little Simms and Garner.NOT suggesting that Brad would be a savior of any kind but he couldn't do any WORSE than Brunell and I can kick better than Tupa can(Nice tackle on the return Sunday night TOM)Adding McCardell would give us a corp of receivers along the lines of "The Posse"or "Smurfs"with Coles.With the loss of Tupa we could send someone out to Cali to get Sebastian Janikowski tossed up into a drunken stupor and sign him to a contract,then hire T.O.'s lawyers to battle for rights with the Raiders and the League(Seemed to work for Philly) My 2$ The Claim

Claimer I actually thought you were on to something highly incredible!
Trading for Johnson and McCardell aren't the worst ideas. Gibbs don't roll like that. Even though I'd be all for it and start Ramsey. Addition of McCardell to Coles, Gardner and Jacobs would be deadly w/ Patrick 'the cannon' Ramsey as QB.

Truth is we can be a decent offense even with our patchwork OL is we can spread the field. Seems simple to me. I make drinks for a living so who knows....

i don't think exchanging old tired QBs is the way to go... and i'm not sure mccardell is going to add that much since he's already past his prime... i don't know why you think tupa is total crap though... he's not the best (he's a bit old), but he hasn't been that bad either...

Tupa had a bad night Sunday night, but until that game, he was actually one of the few bright spots on special teams. I think he was even leading the NFC in net punt average, and has 9 punts inside the 20, which is pretty good. You can blame him for some bad punts Sunday night, but you can't blame him for the one that got returned for a TD-- the coverage units have been awful this year. At least he's only had [i]one[/i] bad game, which is more than I can say for Brunell.