Propping up the sky around here
 

DAMN! This place is bordering on taking an "[I]Extreme[/I]-"ist tone recently. You can peek into any thread and read about cutting everyone, firing everyone, blowing it all up, etc., etc., etc. I've been guilty of it too but tonight I'm saying [B][I][U]enough.[/U][/I][/B]

This is the most frustrating time I've had as a Redskins fan in a long, long time but I am also able to see some sunlight through the clouds. Our next coach will have experience, his own coaching staff and hopefully-hopefully, a little bit more say on the roster. While this season is more than likely a washout and some sweeping changes are to come, all is not lost.

The defense is playing relatively well, not giving up too many points, although it would be nice to get off the field on 3rd down. While people (lazy media drones and their sheep) are inexplicably taking pot shots at Haynesworth because of his contract, they are ignoring that he's having a very good season, on par with why we brought him here. Hall, 2 obvious tackling errors aside, is having a very good season also. He's made 2 plays in the past 2 games that have led to points being put on the board. That's something we've missed around here for a while. We seem to have really hit on Orakpo, especially if the '10 defensive coordinator plays him as a full time DE. Fletcher and McIntosh are playing well and overall our defense is holding up their end of the deal.

For a worst case season, our offensive collapse could be a best case scenario. Even Vinny cannot ignore how awful our OL is now and it must be rebuilt next offseason. Like 3 new starters worth of rebuilt, possibly 4 if Samuels-as I fear-will be forced to retire. Portis has clearly lost a step and if there is a cap in '10 and we cannot release him, we will definitely address that position in the draft next year. As much of a Campbell supporter as I am, I think his dye is cast here and he's playing his final days as our QB. We can finally move on from the most divisive issue that we as a fanbase have. I wish him well on an AFC team next season (but don't be surprised if he ends up in SF and leads them to a couple of NFC West titles).

It's Week 6, 11 more weeks in what is shaping up to be a LONG season. Can we not turn every thread into a bitch, moan and rip session? I know it's gonna suck but it doesn't have to suck around here too.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Perhaps you have been in a coma for the past 5 weeks.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

More power to you Paintrain. Suisham hasn't missed a field goal all year. All...Year!

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Good thread. I've been trying to stay positive and not completely lose it. I'm just gonna buckle up and go along for the ride. HTTR!

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;608566]Perhaps you have been in a coma for the past 5 weeks.[/quote]

On the contrary, I've seen every play of every game, watch WaPo Live almost every night and read the WaPo online first thing every morning. I just don't see the point in being even MORE miserable by bemoaning each and every thing and further tearing down players and the team. If I wanted that I'd spend my time over at ES. Hell, I know it's a futile exercise but I wanted to try SOMETHING positive around here.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

The biggest question is WILL they address it.. not it's obvious that they should

it's been effing obvious that they should FOR AWHILE

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/14/AR2009101402816.html?hpid=topnews]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

What I think is so frustrating to people is not so much the collapse of a season but the collapse of an era. This year is shot but there is no reason to believe we'll be able to contend for several years. What we are seeing is the final dissolution of a team that first started to come together with the Portis trade, the Griffin, Washington, and Springs free agent signings, and the addition of several other key players through the Gibbs years: the core Redskins. It's busted and we are (hopefully) going to be starting over from scratch next year with one playoff win and only a few key young players to show for it.

In today's NFL, there is absolutely no reason for teams to lose for prolonged periods, with the salary cap and draft structured to punish winning and award losing to an extent. Throw in the tremendous monetary advantage the Skins enjoy and you have a team that, at the very least, should be above average over any 5-10 year period. But here we are, in exactly the same position we were in when Spurrier split, with a team falling apart, lacking discipline, lacking leaders, lacking any sense of direction or purpose. And we have precisely one playoff win to show for it.

This is a tough pill to swallow and it's not so suprising to me that the angst is starting to bubble over. But doesn't it make us all feel better to come here and commiserate? The most awesomest Shakespeare play King Lear talks about such shared grief quite well.

When we our betters see bearing our woes,
We scarcely think our miseries our foes.
Who alone suffers suffers most i' the mind,
Leaving free things and happy shows behind:
But then the mind much sufferance doth o'er skip,
When grief hath mates, and bearing fellowship.
How light and portable my pain seems now,
When that which makes me bend makes the king bow,

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=djnemo65;608580]What I think is so frustrating to people is not so much the collapse of a season but the collapse of an era. [B]This year is shot but there is no reason to believe we'll be able to contend for several years. [/B] What we are seeing is the final dissolution of a team that first started to come together with the Portis trade, the Griffin, Washington, and Springs free agent signings, and the addition of several other key players through the Gibbs years: the core Redskins. It's busted and we are (hopefully) going to be starting over from scratch next year with one playoff win and only a few key young players to show for it.

In today's NFL, there is absolutely no reason for teams to lose for prolonged periods, with the salary cap and draft structured to punish winning and award losing to an extent. Throw in the tremendous monetary advantage the Skins enjoy and you have a team that, at the very least, should be above average over any 5-10 year period. [B]But here we are, in exactly the same position we were in when Spurrier split, with a team falling apart, lacking discipline, lacking leaders, lacking any sense of direction or purpose.[/B] And we have precisely one playoff win to show for it.

This is a tough pill to swallow and it's not so suprising to me that the angst is starting to bubble over. But doesn't it make us all feel better to come here and commiserate? The most awesomest Shakespeare play King Lear talks about such shared grief quite well.

When we our betters see bearing our woes,
We scarcely think our miseries our foes.
Who alone suffers suffers most i' the mind,
Leaving free things and happy shows behind:
But then the mind much sufferance doth o'er skip,
When grief hath mates, and bearing fellowship.
How light and portable my pain seems now,
When that which makes me bend makes the king bow,[/quote]

Two quick points. There's no reason we should flail for years to come after this season. We've got a very good defensive base for the next few years. If we re-sign (or find suitable replacements for) Rogers and McIntosh to combine with Haynesworth, Hall, Orakpo and Jarmon we're going to be ok on defense.

For as terrible as the offense has been, Moss and Cooley are two weapons most teams would love to have. I am interested to see what a new staff does with Thomas/Kelly. The O-line needs to be remade and we are probably looking at a new backfield but the cupboard is nowhere near as bare as the Spurrier era.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608582]Two quick points. There's no reason we should flail for years to come after this season. We've got a very good defensive base for the next few years. If we re-sign (or find suitable replacements for) Rogers and McIntosh to combine with Haynesworth, Hall, Orakpo and Jarmon we're going to be ok on defense.

For as terrible as the offense has been, Moss and Cooley are two weapons most teams would love to have. I am interested to see what a new staff does with Thomas/Kelly. The O-line needs to be remade and we are probably looking at a new backfield but the cupboard is nowhere near as bare as the Spurrier era.[/quote]

Fair point about the defense, we have some quite decent young guys at safety as well. But the offense is not going to be good anytime soon. First, we'll be starting over with a new qb and system next year (Campbell is goner than gone) as well as an OL rebuilding project that is likely to take at least two years, assuming we draft perfectly. Moss is north of 30, I doubt he'll be a factor when this team gets back on track. Thomas and Kelly might get it together I guess but I'm not counting on that either.

So I see an offensive rebuilding project that is bleaker than what Gibbs had after Spurrier, where JG took over a solid line (almost the same as today's only five years younger) a proven playmaker in Coles (who became Moss) and a stud corner with trade value who became one of the best young running backs in the league. Also, Spurrier's left over defense ranked third in the league the year after he left and clearly had more talent than we realized.

So I don't know, I still think we're in bad shape, especially without a qb.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608582]......but the cupboard is nowhere near as bare as the Spurrier era.[/quote]


We didn't even have a cupboard at that point.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Fletch has been tearing it up and Doughty has been surprisingly effective. If Hunter can be one of those punters who play until they collect Social Security, we are set at punter for some time to come, thus overcoming our long-term run of mediocre punting.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608579][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/14/AR2009101402816.html?hpid=topnews"]washingtonpost.com[/URL][/quote]
I don't give a damn how far we are from the bottom

I care how far we are from the top

this is seriously how apathetic that we've gotten

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=tryfuhl;608598]I don't give a damn how far we are from the bottom

I care how far we are from the top

this is seriously how apathetic that we've gotten[/quote]

Sure, we all agree...but this was intended to be a somewhat positive thread

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Hey...at least they haven't changed the team name yet.
That is something I can root for.
I have faith in the Redskins attorneys!
They will win the litigation Super Bowl for us!

The skins are also really good at Marketing.
We win that too!

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608600]Sure, we all agree...but this was intended to be a somewhat positive thread[/quote]

I'm not sure why that matters honestly.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=tryfuhl;608606]I'm not sure why that matters honestly.[/quote]

Ok, nevermind then

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608563]DAMN! This place is bordering on taking an "[I]Extreme[/I]-"ist tone recently. You can peek into any thread and read about cutting everyone, firing everyone, blowing it all up, etc., etc., etc. I've been guilty of it too but tonight I'm saying [B][I][U]enough.[/U][/I][/B]

This is the most frustrating time I've had as a Redskins fan in a long, long time but I am also able to see some sunlight through the clouds. Our next coach will have experience, his own coaching staff and hopefully-hopefully, a little bit more say on the roster. While this season is more than likely a washout and some sweeping changes are to come, all is not lost.

The defense is playing relatively well, not giving up too many points, although it would be nice to get off the field on 3rd down. While people (lazy media drones and their sheep) are inexplicably taking pot shots at Haynesworth because of his contract, they are ignoring that he's having a very good season, on par with why we brought him here. Hall, 2 obvious tackling errors aside, is having a very good season also. He's made 2 plays in the past 2 games that have led to points being put on the board. That's something we've missed around here for a while. We seem to have really hit on Orakpo, especially if the '10 defensive coordinator plays him as a full time DE. Fletcher and McIntosh are playing well and overall our defense is holding up their end of the deal.

For a worst case season, our offensive collapse could be a best case scenario. Even Vinny cannot ignore how awful our OL is now and it must be rebuilt next offseason. Like 3 new starters worth of rebuilt, possibly 4 if Samuels-as I fear-will be forced to retire. Portis has clearly lost a step and if there is a cap in '10 and we cannot release him, we will definitely address that position in the draft next year. As much of a Campbell supporter as I am, I think his dye is cast here and he's playing his final days as our QB. We can finally move on from the most divisive issue that we as a fanbase have. I wish him well on an AFC team next season (but don't be surprised if he ends up in SF and leads them to a couple of NFC West titles).

It's Week 6, 11 more weeks in what is shaping up to be a LONG season. [B]Can we not turn every thread into a bitch, moan and rip session? I know it's gonna suck but it doesn't have to suck around here too.[/B][/quote]

We can't Pain, you're wasting your time...good effort though

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608612]Ok, nevermind then[/quote]
:laughing2

just saying every other thread can trend itself

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608614]We can't Pain, you're wasting your time...good effort though[/quote]
ahh I see now

a lot to be positive about!!

honestly, some of the biggest homers on this site have said we're out of it, etc

what makes the others so much more important?

I mean Snyder might like our positives..

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Good thread Pain. We've got some work to do, but we've got some building blocks. We just need folks (GM, HC) who know how to put the blocks together correctly. Positive changes are coming.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Alright, to respond to this in the light of the original post:

Yes, our D is stepping up

as far as our future, I'm not sure that we can guarantee that anything is there.. who knows will even take this job? for those who just skimmed this post it's not so much positive as it is negative and/or hopeful, but whatever

what matters is even those that dissent against what I say, I'm still watching the game EVERY week, I want positive and I'll watch 20 more seasons waiting for it if that's what it takes

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Good thread Paintrain. Several GOOD points have been brought out and.......actually I do feel a little better
I feel pretty, I feel pretty, I feel pretty and witty and...............

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

A positive thing would be that if you wanted to go to a game ,you could get some really good seat's for cheap.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Since this is the positive thread....what if Snyderatto really foresaw (kinda like the Emperor in Star Wars), when Gibbs left, that the team was going to be in trouble and needed a major overhaul. Knowing 2010 had a good chance to be an uncapped season, that they would stabilize our WRs with young talent, keep Cooley, get a young RG & RT and give them time to develop, bring in young safties, and bolster the DL.

They put Zorn in place knowing he'd fail, and we'd have at least two high picks to work with in the 2010 draft and an uncapped season to fill holes in Free Agency. Worst case it would take one more year to rebuild to make a SB run in the 2011 season.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;608637]Since this is the positive thread....what if Snyderatto really foresaw (kinda like the Emperor in Star Wars), when Gibbs left, that the team was going to be in trouble and needed a major overhaul. Knowing 2010 had a good chance to be an uncapped season, that they would stabilize our WRs with young talent, keep Cooley, get a young RG & RT and give them time to develop, bring in young safties, and bolster the DL.

They put Zorn in place knowing he'd fail, and we'd have at least two high picks to work with in the 2010 draft and an uncapped season to fill holes in Free Agency. Worst case it would take one more year to rebuild to make a SB run in the 2011 season.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'[/quote]pass the doob wise man

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

i'm with you on trying to be positive... what's the point of bitching about every little thing, every player, every coach? does it make people feel better? probably a little, after the game... but all week long being pissed off -- why?

let's look at our record, which is the only thing that matters... not how we won or how poorly we played despite winning... what did you have, realistically, at the beggining of the season? i had a loss in NY and a loss in carolina... and wins against the rams, lions and bucs... didn't most of you? so, really there is one abberation, the lions -- which sucked, but it happens: this is the nfl, there is talent on every team (even the raiders)... no one is going to lay down for anyone, every game is potentially a loss...

onto zorn... he's still learning... we're all violently shoving him under the bus, but the guy is learning... should he have been hired in the first place? probably not... but, is that his fault? is it crazy to think that he will start to learn, adapt with his schemes and play-calling? maybe he will, maybe he won't... but assuming that, one, he absolutely can't and, two, that another coach in the middle of the season is magically going to turn it around is the worst of pessimism and the best of optimism at the same time...

and doesn't that kind of sum up redskins nation? a win, and we're going to the superbowl... a loss, and everyone on the team sucks and the coaches are idiots... find some middle ground and i promise that you'll be happier and live longer...

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;608637]Since this is the positive thread....what if Snyderatto really foresaw (kinda like the Emperor in Star Wars), when Gibbs left, that the team was going to be in trouble and needed a major overhaul. Knowing 2010 had a good chance to be an uncapped season, that they would stabilize our WRs with young talent, keep Cooley, get a young RG & RT and give them time to develop, bring in young safties, and bolster the DL.

They put Zorn in place knowing he'd fail, and we'd have at least two high picks to work with in the 2010 draft and an uncapped season to fill holes in Free Agency. Worst case it would take one more year to rebuild to make a SB run in the 2011 season.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'[/quote]

Obvious joking aside, you are talking about the mother of all free agency splurges as the solution to this team's problems? Sorry, but that does not prop up any sky for me. And just because Paintrain presented a case for optimism does not mean we have to accept it. If we are being optimistic just to goof around and feel better, reality be damned, Tryfuhl's 13-3 thread was a perfectly fine space for that. Otherwise we still have to debate the points raised right? I don't see how that constitutes a bitch session.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

We have an absolute, stud, beast pass rusher. Something we've been bitching about for years. We have him now...except he's dropping back in coverage as a linebacker...but still.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608651]We have an absolute, stud, beast pass rusher. Something we've been bitching about for years. We have him now...except he's dropping back in coverage as a linebacker...but still.[/quote]
I dig the positivity, but it doesn't hit as a whole

we have big people from our site speaking positively in one light, then saying omg we're doomed in another

let's just say we should take what we can get from this season, evaluations are all that matters

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=tryfuhl;608653]I dig the positivity, but it doesn't hit as a whole

[B]
we have big people from our site speaking positively in one light, then saying omg we're doomed in another[/B]

let's just say we should take what we can get from this season, evaluations are all that matters[/quote]

What do you mean?

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608657]What do you mean?[/quote]
saying there was a lot of positivity from the same people that are saying pack it in right now

hey I saw positivity too though

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

oh the big people, you probably think that I was referring to staff

not my intention, just the people that I respect around here

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=tryfuhl;608660]oh the big people, you probably think that I was referring to staff[/quote]

No I was just, still am, unclear on what you meant. I mean I think it's ok to say we have major issues that need to be addressed yet at the same time we have some positives we can build on. I don't think it's an either or situation

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608651]We have an absolute, stud, beast pass rusher. Something we've been bitching about for years. We have him now...except he's dropping back in coverage as a linebacker...but still.[/quote]
HUGE issue and one of those I've commented on for awhile, including on this board

get the players that play THEIR positions

i'm tired of moving players between their somewhat positions, other positions, etc

people excel at what they do, don't hold them back

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608664]No I was just, still am, unclear on what you meant. I mean I think it's ok to say we have major issues that need to be addressed yet at the same time we have some positives we can build on. I don't think it's an either or situation[/quote]
oh, not skins staff

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=tryfuhl;608673]oh, not skins staff[/quote]

Yeah I figured that much

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=SmootSmack;608675]Yeah I figured that much[/quote]yeah I read that but I figured that I'd hold out for your offer

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

Good post, and a great change of pace. I don't think, and I'm not accusing anyone of being a "fair-weather" fan, but it has gotten a little mob-ish the past weeks. The one thing we can say about our Redskins, is that there's never a dull moment, and there's never nothing to talk about. Imagine being a Detroit or Oakland fan right now, or over the past two seasons.

Re: Propping up the sky around here
 

[quote=Paintrain;608582]Two quick points. There's no reason we should flail for years to come after this season. We've got a very good defensive base for the next few years. If we re-sign (or find suitable replacements for) Rogers and McIntosh to combine with Haynesworth, Hall, Orakpo and Jarmon we're going to be ok on defense.

For as terrible as the offense has been, Moss and Cooley are two weapons most teams would love to have. [B]I am interested to see what a new staff does with Thomas/Kelly.[/B] The O-line needs to be remade and we are probably looking at a new backfield but the cupboard is nowhere near as bare as the Spurrier era.[/quote]

Hixon will teach them the old college try. (he will be here cuz you KNOW he's got those pictures)