Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Should-Snyder-listen-to-his-players.html]Should Snyder listen to his players? | National Football Post[/url]

good read

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

DS is listening, just not officially. I GUARANTEE he does NOT like all the negative pub his team is getting, and ESPECIALLY all the allegations of incompetence leveled toward both he and VC. What happens as a result remains to be seen...........

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

The picture alone of Snyder is repulsive. I can't help thinking what a pompous, smug little prick he looks like.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

I don't buy into the notion Snyder pays any attention to what's said. In fact I doubt he gives two shits. Look at his ten years as owner...this is a guy who believes he is absolutely the smartest person in any conversation/interaction.

...I will be shocked if he ever really turns over any serious decision-making.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

This really becomes a poll question:

Should Dan Snyder give Coach Zorn a vote of confidence?


I say no. A vote of confidence is usually the kiss of death!

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=The Goat;609173]I don't buy into the notion Snyder pays any attention to what's said. In fact I doubt he gives two shits. Look at his ten years as owner...this is a guy who believes he is absolutely the smartest person in any conversation/interaction.

...I will be shocked if he ever really turns over any serious decision-making.[/quote]
One thing that I have to give to Dan's side is that basically he has been tried and convicted of being a pompous, cretanic, uncaring bastard, etc on the basis of?????
Anybody had any direct contact with him?
He may be, but to my knowledge, nobody here can.....legitimately substantiate it

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

that's a good read

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

A good read and I agree with Matt. You hear so many stories about disgruntled players like Lavar running Snyder into the ground, I was kinda surprised to read Matt say how much Dan is liked by the players. He says he's never seen an owner called out by the players like this before. Will it do any good for Snyder to hear it from the players? I guess we'll see.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Snyder should go skiing in Switzerland... until February. Make that June.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609177]One thing that I have to give to Dan's side is that basically he has been tried and convicted of being a pompous, cretanic, uncaring bastard, etc on the basis of?????
Anybody had any direct contact with him?
He may be, but to my knowledge, nobody here can.....legitimately substantiate it[/quote]

Even if all those things were true and more about Snyder I wouldn't care. I wouldn't even mind Snyder running the player personnel operations and fan club. If the team just played at a descent/respectable level on the field. Other then a few moments under Gibbs II was there brief accomplishment. But Snyder & Ceratto always manage to run the team back into the ground again. His unwillingness to hire a good Gm and let him run the team is what makes fans hate him. Not his exterior or behavior.
Just win baby. The fans will love you again....warts and all.

For every game the Redskin lose right now, Snyder is feeling it big time. These articles and player comments in the press. The team losing to the worst teams in the NFL. Redskins a laughing stock in the media. You better believe this is stressing him. Maybe it is what he needs so he learns to delegate to professional football men. Time will tell if continues to make an ass of himself or he digs himself out.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609177]One thing that I have to give to Dan's side is that basically he has been tried and convicted of being a pompous, cretanic, uncaring bastard, etc on the basis of?????
Anybody had any direct contact with him?
He may be, but to my knowledge, nobody here can.....legitimately substantiate it[/quote]

I have no idea what is manners are like...I don't think it makes any difference. Kraft may be the biggest jerk on the planet for all I know (I don't btw) but he knows how to be a very good franchise owner. Snyder's ownership, by any honest account, is a disaster. His manners are not more or less irrelevant but his decision-making is critical.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Defensewins;609193]Even if all those things were true and more about Snyder I wouldn't care. I wouldn't even mind Snyder running the player personnel operations and fan club. If the team just played at a descent/respectable level on the field. Other then a few moments under Gibbs II was there brief accomplishment. But Snyder & Ceratto always manage to run the team back into the ground again. His unwillingness to hire a good Gm and let him run the team is what makes fans hate him. Not his exterior or behavior.
Just win baby. The fans will love you again....warts and all.

For every game the Redskin lose right now, Snyder is feeling it big time. These articles and player comments in the press. The team losing to the worst teams in the NFL. Redskins a laughing stock in the media. You better believe this is stressing him. Maybe it is what he needs so he learns to delegate to professional football men. Time will tell if continues to make an ass of himself or he digs himself out.[/quote]

Excellent post man! I tend to disagree on Snyder's reaction, or lack thereof. But overall you really wrap the whole idea of a football franchise into a nice paragraph.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=The Goat;609197]I have no idea what is manners are like...I don't think it makes any difference. Kraft may be the biggest jerk on the planet for all I know (I don't btw) but he knows how to be a very good franchise owner. Snyder's ownership, by any honest account, is a disaster. His manners are not more or less irrelevant but his decision-making is critical.[/quote]
I really was not singling you out, but DS has recieved 40 lifetimes full of BS about his character from people that do not have any personal knowledge of him. He may deserve it, but AT LEAST it should come from actual knowledge.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

That was a good read. It sickens me to think of the success we've been missing out on over the last decade. If we could only match up a solid GM with Snyder's willingness to spend and desire to win....

It's pretty amazing that someone who supposedly wants to win more than anything just can't get out of his own way.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609203]I really was not singling you out, but DS has recieved 40 lifetimes full of BS about his character from people that do not have any personal knowledge of him. He may deserve it, but AT LEAST it should come from actual knowledge.[/quote]

I do think you're bringing up a good point. DS does get a lot shit he doesn't deserve but if we were 5-0 right now he could be the biggest prick a-hole in the world and nobody would care. Problem is when we lose everyone piles on, fair or not. We always hear that DS just wants to win, well so do we, trouble is he's not going about things the right way to reach that goal. His track record over the last decade speaks for itself.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Defensewins;609193]Even if all those things were true and more about Snyder I wouldn't care. I wouldn't even mind Snyder running the player personnel operations and fan club. If the team just played at a descent/respectable level on the field. [B]Other then a few moments under Gibbs II was there brief accomplishment. But Snyder & Ceratto always manage to run the team back into the ground again. His unwillingness to hire a good Gm and let him run the team is what makes fans hate him[/B]. Not his exterior or behavior.
Just win baby. The fans will love you again....warts and all.

For every game the Redskin lose right now, Snyder is feeling it big time. These articles and player comments in the press. The team losing to the worst teams in the NFL. Redskins a laughing stock in the media. You better believe this is stressing him. Maybe it is what he needs so he learns to delegate to professional football men. Time will tell if continues to make an ass of himself or he digs himself out.[/quote]
I would certainly agree regarding the "No GM" deal, as it appears that is the truth but I said, his character is constantly under assault as well. Something that cannot be accurately contrived without actual personal knowledge......

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609203]I really was not singling you out, but DS has recieved 40 lifetimes full of BS about his character from people that do not have any personal knowledge of him. He may deserve it, but AT LEAST it should come from actual knowledge.[/quote]

I hear you and I def am sorry to come out defensive. To his credit, according to many, Snyder has been a benevolent billionaire, giving substantially to charity and whatnot. I don't know the numbers myself.

...it's sort of parallels various discussions about coaching styles. I think a number of truly great coaches are probably hard-ass types w/o much for manners. Maybe they don't get along well w/ everyone but sure seem to command respect from their roster and it shows on the field, every game, every down. Coughlin comes to mind immediately but I could name a dozen. Well, I'll take that guys over the nice coach who can't lead men any day of the week, just as I'll take a jerk owner who knows his business over the nice one who can't get out of his own way (to borrow the perfectly suited phrase from GMScud) when it comes to putting a winner together. Watching lousy football week in and week out has just gotten to be too much :(

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609177]One thing that I have to give to Dan's side is that basically he has been tried and convicted of being a pompous, cretanic, uncaring bastard, etc on the basis of?????
Anybody had any direct contact with him?
He may be, but to my knowledge, nobody here can.....legitimately substantiate it[/quote]

The majority of the criticism leveled towards Snyder is not on a personal basis, it has more to do with the way he has run the team for the last decade. He could be the greatest guy in the world for all we know of him on a personal level, it's the football decisions he makes that has for a long time rubbed people the wrong way.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Hell no! If the players were doing there job on the field we wouldn't have a thread of this nature, and YES of course Zorn does take a fair share of that responsibility. Bottom line in my opinion Zorn was no where close to being ready for a HC candidate. Do the players run the team OR the coach, we know who owns the team the man that pays the bills. I want a STRONG leader (HC) at the helm that runs the team not vise versa, something I strongly believe (Even as nice a guy as Zorn appears to be) Zorn is not a leader a men.

If it's my team the last people I would be listening to are the underachieving players (And how many are really wanting Zorn to be around..? Unnamed sources?). That I'm paying!

The players need to just play, put up OR shut-up, and stop listening to the media (Blaming the media as I read yesterday, what a joke). Whoever the Coach ends up being needs to Coach, apparently old school style with this group. While the owner pays the bills and the ultimate decision on who he decides to Coach this team is up to him. I wouldn't blame lil Danny boy one bit if he fired Zorn, its a tough business. Based on production. The SKINS 4-10 in the last fourteen, with ZERO signs of improvement, if anything we are in reverse. Thats the kind of production that will not be acceptable in DC OR just about anywhere else.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Great read, my beef is with VC. Is he not the acting GM? Snyder is a passionate fan just like pretty much all of us, he needs to realize that you build a franchise not buy one. I hope after this year that he has learned that lesson.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=backrow;609175]This really becomes a poll question:

Should Dan Snyder give Coach Zorn a vote of confidence?


I say no. A vote of confidence is usually the kiss of death![/quote]

I say great if it is the kiss,you actually want zorn to stay?

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=The Goat;609214]I hear you and I def am sorry to come out defensive. To his credit, according to many, Snyder has been a benevolent billionaire, giving substantially to charity and whatnot. I don't know the numbers myself.

...it's sort of parallels various discussions about coaching styles. I think a number of truly great coaches are probably hard-ass types w/o much for manners. Maybe they don't get along well w/ everyone but sure seem to command respect from their roster and it shows on the field, every game, every down. Coughlin comes to mind immediately but I could name a dozen. Well, I'll take that guys over the nice coach who can't lead men any day of the week, just as I'll take a jerk owner who knows his business over the nice one who can't get out of his own way (to borrow the perfectly suited phrase from GMScud) when it comes to putting a winner together. Watching lousy football week in and week out has just gotten to be too much :([/quote]
Now that you mention it, I think the Skins could greatly benefit from a "hard ass" type of coach. Gruden generally has that reputation. THAT is one of the things I like about him.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609229]Now that you mention it, I think the Skins could greatly benefit from a "hard ass" type of coach. Gruden generally has that reputation. THAT is one of the things I like about him.[/quote]

Yeah if we're stuck w/ lil D and Vinny running the FO for the foreseeable future then Gruden is probably the best candidate to come in and make due w/ the personnel he's given. We WILL have to make room for at least 4 qbs on the roster though lol.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

When I heard this I was unsure how to take this. My first few thoughts were...

1. The players are afraid of who might be brought in as HC.
2. The players are afraid to lose their club med lifestyle
3. Players know that if there is a change, "Rebuild" mode maybe eminent. Which means they may be cut or traded.
4. Players are feigning loyalty for some reason. Perhaps players went to Snyder and complained that Zorn doesn't have a clue, Zorn found out and now players are covering their tracks.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=The Goat;609214]I hear you and I def am sorry to come out defensive. To his credit, according to many, Snyder has been a benevolent billionaire,[B] giving substantially to charity and whatnot[/B]. I don't know the numbers myself.

...it's sort of parallels various discussions about coaching styles. I think a number of truly great coaches are probably hard-ass types w/o much for manners. Maybe they don't get along well w/ everyone but sure seem to command respect from their roster and it shows on the field, every game, every down. Coughlin comes to mind immediately but I could name a dozen. Well, I'll take that guys over the nice coach who can't lead men any day of the week, just as I'll take a jerk owner who knows his business over the nice one who can't get out of his own way (to borrow the perfectly suited phrase from GMScud) when it comes to putting a winner together. Watching lousy football week in and week out has just gotten to be too much :([/quote]

Keep in mind, most business men who have a lot of money will find a way to make themselves look good yet help themselves against the IRS. ;)

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

DS should not listen to those over paid fools.He needs to get someone in there that he can listen two Mike Holmgren GM.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Should he; yes. Will he; no.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=The Goat;609199]Excellent post man! I tend to disagree on Snyder's reaction, or lack thereof. But overall you really wrap the whole idea of a football franchise into a nice paragraph.[/quote]

Thanks.
I really do think Snyder is living [B]one[/B] of his worst moments as owner of the Redskins right now. He is feeling it. This current bad situation is at least tied for worst along with the worst moment in the Spurrier era. They would have to be at least tied for worst moment for DS as owner.
DS loves to make a splash in the media and to be talked about positively in the media. He comes from an advertising background and he knows the advantages of good press. By him looking the fool in the national media day on an hourly basis right now and the Redskins organization being an embarrassment, DS has to be losing his hair at a faster pace than normal.
When I watched a little NFL network or ESPN NFL news this week the Redskins demise is a semi-hot topic right now. We are a talking point in the national sports/football media. That is painful.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;609216]The majority of the criticism leveled towards Snyder is not on a personal basis, it has more to do with the way he has run the team for the last decade. He could be the greatest guy in the world for all we know of him on a personal level, it's the football decisions he makes that has for a long time rubbed people the wrong way.[/quote]

not sure i totally agree. most of the local writers have been reasonable, but i think the more national figures always add this personal note. i mean jimmy johnson was condescending i thought. i even remember madden in the first few years of snyder making some fairly unprofessional comments from the booth. i think snyder really rubbed some people the wrong way, and those in a less rigorous media have let him know it.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=SBXVII;609248]Keep in mind, most business men who have a lot of money will find a way to make themselves look good yet help themselves against the IRS. ;)[/quote]

Word. The only two dudes I really believe are "charity-minded" are Gates and Buffet because from what I understand both have committed the bulk of their fortunes...but I'll give blokes like Snyder the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

So are these players saying that they can't play hard unless they know that Jim Zorn will be around for the rest of the season? Here's an idea: Why don't the players play hard and blow out KC instead of asking management to do something that management won't do at this time, namely, endorse Jim Zorn. Blowing out KC would do far more for Jim Zorn's future as the Redskins HC than any words of support could ever do.

This is a team that hasn't played hard for their HC since the opening game of the season. If they truly care about him then why won't they play hard for him?

There are some real good talkers on this team. Players talk about the owner, the FO, the other players. Then, when they're on the field and it's time to reach down and summon the extra effort needed to win, they don't do it.

I say to the Redskins players, if you really want to keep Jim Zorn as your coach, then come out with a purpose on Sunday and blow out the KC Chiefs.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;609220]Great read, [B]my beef is with VC. Is he not the acting GM?[/B] Snyder is a passionate fan just like pretty much all of us, he needs to realize that you build a franchise not buy one. I hope after this year that he has learned that lesson.[/quote]

That presupposes Snyder has given Vinny complete control and has no input whatsoever. Snyder didn't give Vinny the keys to car and walk away. I believe Vinny is front man for what Snyder really wants to do. If it doesn't work, Cerrato conveniently gets the blame, but nothing ever happens to him.

And that's why nothing ever will happen to him. Snyder has "suggestions" [I]*wink, wink*,[/I] and what's Vinny going to do? He certainly can't overrule Snyder.

Snyder = Emperor Palpatine.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;609288]So are these players saying that they can't play hard unless they know that Jim Zorn will be around for the rest of the season? Here's an idea: Why don't the players play hard and blow out KC instead of asking management to do something that management won't do at this time, namely, endorse Jim Zorn. Blowing out KC would do far more for Jim Zorn's future as the Redskins HC than any words of support could ever do.

This is a team that hasn't played hard for their HC since the opening game of the season. If they truly care about him then why won't they play hard for him?

There are some real good talkers on this team. Players talk about the owner, the FO, the other players. Then, when they're on the field and it's time to reach down and summon the extra effort needed to win, they don't do it.

[B]I say to the Redskins players, if you really want to keep Jim Zorn as your coach, then come out with a purpose on Sunday and blow out the KC Chiefs[/B].[/quote]

As much as I've complained about the FO not coming out in support of their coach, I still agree with this. Take it into your own hands players. If you want Zorn to be your coach. WIN for him!

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

I keep hearing from people that you would think.....know. Doc Walker (who is a PLAYER GUY) talking about the apparent lack of strong locker room leadership. As you say 53, rally around the guy and play as a "unit".

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=Hog1;609299]I keep hearing from people that you would think.....know. Doc Walker (who is a PLAYER GUY) talking about the apparent [B]lack of[/B] [B]strong locker room leadership.[/B] As you say 53, rally around the guy and [B]play as a "unit[/B]".[/quote]

I think thats been their downfall all year Hog. Unite and play with purpose. Everyone get on the same page. If you want to save his job...save it. Don't just talk about it.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;609288]So are these players saying that they can't play hard unless they know that Jim Zorn will be around for the rest of the season? Here's an idea: Why don't the players play hard and blow out KC instead of asking management to do something that management won't do at this time, namely, endorse Jim Zorn. Blowing out KC would do far more for Jim Zorn's future as the Redskins HC than any words of support could ever do.

This is a team that hasn't played hard for their HC since the opening game of the season. If they truly care about him then why won't they play hard for him?

[B]There are some real good talkers on this team. Players talk about the owner, the FO, the other players. Then, when they're on the field and it's time to reach down and summon the extra effort needed to win, they don't do it. [/B]

[B]I say to the Redskins players, if you really want to keep Jim Zorn as your coach, then come out with a purpose on Sunday and blow out the KC Chiefs[/B].[/quote]

Pretty much how I feel at this point. If the players want to stop answering questions regarding Zorn's job, then go out and let your play speak for him on the field.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;609288]So are these players saying that they can't play hard unless they know that Jim Zorn will be around for the rest of the season? Here's an idea: Why don't the players play hard and blow out KC instead of asking management to do something that management won't do at this time, namely, endorse Jim Zorn. Blowing out KC would do far more for Jim Zorn's future as the Redskins HC than any words of support could ever do.

This is a team that hasn't played hard for their HC since the opening game of the season. If they truly care about him then why won't they play hard for him?

There are some real good talkers on this team. Players talk about the owner, the FO, the other players. Then, when they're on the field and it's time to reach down and summon the extra effort needed to win, they don't do it.

I say to the Redskins players, if you really want to keep Jim Zorn as your coach, then come out with a purpose on Sunday and blow out the KC Chiefs.[/quote]

110% agree. Lets see. Zorn gets hired and some fans are happy cause it's not the splashy move Snyder usually makes(even though no one would take the job). Zorn's first 8 games look like we found a diamond in the rough. Everyone is happy, talking about how Zorn is the second coming of Gibbs. Then the last 8 game look horrible. Some are ready to fire him, most understand it was injuries that held us back. So in essance....the players for the most part are the same players who were here for the first 8 games which means they could be a winning team. However for whatever reason they are not.

Play call sucks, players not exicuting, and now some vital injuries, but the fans can't control these issues, the media can't control these issues, and DS can't control these issue right now. Basically, the players are asking DS to endorse Zorn with bad coaching, bad play calling, and bad player performance? I just don't see that happening or the reasoning behind it.

If the players want Zorn to remain then they can stop screwing up on the field and exicute his plays correctly, which will help Zorn call better plays he knows they will exicute perfectly, which should result in more scores and games won, but don't ask management to endorse something you players are not endorsing on the field.

As for me....just winning the KC game is not enough at this point. I want to see them come out and win games againt the Eagles, Saints, Dallas. Oh they can squeek by all they want so long as it's done with over 21 points or more. That would atleast show they know how and can actually score. Right now they can't get into the end zone to save their life.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but prior last week it seemed like most the blame fingers were pointed at the players and Zorn. There seemed to be less blame given to the FO, until last week. I am not trying to absolve anyone or try to lay more blame on any given group, I am just saying the players may have spoken up to try and even out the blame.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

[quote=53Fan;609300]I think thats been their downfall all year Hog. Unite and play with purpose. Everyone get on the same page. If you want to save his job...save it. Don't just talk about it.[/quote]

I agree. If they want Zorn to stay on as their coach dont talk about winning, do it. If they win everything will work out just fine. The problem is these players appear to be much better at talking about what they need to do than actually doing it.

Re: Should Snyder listen to his players?
 

No sir! A owner should never listen to his players, except in things that don't envolve the game. If Rocky McIntosh wants to do some kind of "feed the children" program, that's something else. The owner should go to the GM, see what's going on, and trust his assessment of the situation. If the players are going to fraternize with the ownership, then there's no use in having a GM or a coaching staff. That's one of the big problems with this organization to begin with.