More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

This article was already posted on the links - Burgundy & Old Pain - but after reading it I felt such a sense of bitterness that I had to vent w/a new thread. I know that many said John Kent Cooke wasn't cut out to own the team, but it's clear from the article that he not only has a passion for the team, but also a great sense of appreciation for the fans & the team's reputation and standing in DC. He cares about the organization's tradition & how it treats people, both things that Snyder shows little regard for.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/20/AR2009102003616_5.html?sid=ST2009102003818]Profile of John Kent Cooke, son of former Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke - washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

One of the few football related people I have little respect for is John Cooke. At the time of the sale, he came off as disinterested in the Skins, and as the opening line of the article says wanted to be sailing or doing anything but running a team his father had made into a proud and story-filled franchise. I could care less about his moanings, or some media spin from the post to hammer snyder from yet another angle. I hope john enjoys his boat trips but he has no credible reason for being attached to the Skins in any way shape or form.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

Jack Kent Cooke was a smart man. If he had wanted his son to have the team when he died, he would have made that possible. But, he knew his son too well to let that happen.

[QUOTE=WaPo Article]Sonny Jurgensen, the Hall of Fame quarterback who now broadcasts the team's games, said: "John is a good man. But if his dad thought he was capable of running the franchise, I think he would have given it to him. They could have taken care of the charitable trust when John sold the team." [/QUOTE]

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;613221]One of the few football related people I have little respect for is John Cooke. At the time of the sale, he came off as disinterested in the Skins, and as the opening line of the article says wanted to be sailing or doing anything but running a team his father had made into a proud and story-filled franchise. I could care less about his moanings, or some media spin from the post to hammer snyder from yet another angle. I hope john enjoys his boat trips but he has no credible reason for being attached to the Skins in any way shape or form.[/quote]

I realize the story is largely a sour grapes tale by JKC, but at the same time, if what he said is true about how the danny treated him, that speaks volumes. I certainly won't argue whether JKC was ready to be an owner.

Think about the paradox; lifelong fan (danny) wants to buy the team that gave him memories since childhood and a tradition of winning. Yet as a business man the lifelong fan doesn't seem to care about the actual people and methods that established the tradition.

So in the end, the lifelong fan buys the team, fair and square, yet guts virtually all remnants of the product that gave him all the great memories. He changes the business model, the image, the marketing, etc. and today we have an organization that is almost entirely based on his business decisions, and virtually void of the tradition that made him want the team in the first place.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

Jack Kent Cooke was a demanding guy. Not meddlesome, but demanding. Good article.

I remember reading some articles at the time that John Kent Cooke might not be the best guy for the job. Who knows though? The meeting b/n DS and JKC doesn't really make DS look bad. He wanted to be the majority owner just like JKC. Of course, they hated each other b/c they were battling for ownership of the team.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I'm not going to defend Snyder at all, he is what he is. But would we be that much better off with John as owner? I'm really not sure. The Redskins as we knew them died with Jack.

I feel for what happened to John, but c'mon, his discontent for Snyder seems to be a cover up for the real issue, the fact his Dad passed him over and made it difficult for him to retain the team.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I honestly don't know much of the story behind John Kent Cooke. To be honest, I never even thought about Jack's children until after Jack had passed away. I guess after ten years of putting up with Daniel Snyder, it's tough to compare that to the two years that John owned the team. I don't doubt one bit what John was saying in the article was true. For one thing, it is about patience and continuity. And at the time when Snyder bought the team, I really felt that Norv was finally starting to turn the team around. Also, it is true that Snyder has turned the Redskins into nothing more than a cash cow for him first and a football team second. I'm not saying that things would have been better under John, but I don't see how things could have been worse. But, it's probably a moot point. If Snyder ever does decide to sell the Redskins, I doubt he would make it easy for John Kent Cooke to purchase it. Cooke probably wouldn't have the money in the first place.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

Norv was fired in year 7 with the team and probably should have been canned much earlier. He's only proved since then to be a mediocre head coach in this league. There's a difference between having patience, and not knowing when to cut ties with a bad thing.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

In comparison to Danny, John Kent Cooke was a model of effective ownership.

On the other hand, this would be true of Beulah the Witch.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;613236]Norv was fired in year 7 with the team and probably should have been canned much earlier. He's only proved since then to be a mediocre head coach in this league. There's a difference between having patience, and not knowing when to cut ties with a bad thing.[/quote]

True, but I think that line is very thin. I do believe it took Norv Turner too long to finally get the Redskins into playing better football and winning games. However, point being is, they finally started winning more. They finally started winning division championships and getting into the playoffs. I felt Snyder was a little hasty in firing Turner midseason. Especially when the Redskins were at a 7-6 record. By all accounts, Turner should have been fired before the '98 or '99 seasons. But, because he wasn't, and because they (front office) stuck with him, he eventually got the Redskins in the playoffs.

I guess my line of thinking is, if you're going to fire a guy, don't do it after he finally "catches on". Stick with him at that point. I suppose I was giving Turner a free pass for the ugly years we endured under him before that '99 season. From that point on (the '99 playoff season) is when Turner should have been scrutinized the most in my opinion. In another words, "Ok, you have finally started doing what we hired you to do. So, we're starting on a clean slate now. We are going to see if you can at least repeat that and eventually improve from that. If so, then you're working out. If the team regresses, you're gone!"

We can say the team regressed that following year, but since Turner was fired before the season was over (at a 7-6 record,) then we can't really say for sure that Turner would not have gotten the Redskins into the playoffs again. Or, at least a 10-6 record if nothing else.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;613236]Norv was fired in year 7 with the team and probably should have been canned much earlier. He's only proved since then to be a mediocre head coach in this league. There's a difference between having patience, and not knowing when to cut ties with a bad thing.[/quote]

Agreed. As for John Kent Cooke, the stories I've heard from players back in those days was that he was a complete figurehead.

His dad didn't trust him to make any big decisions and kept him out of the loop for the most part. I don't believe we would have been any better off necessarily with John Kent Cooke and if his ownership meant we would have Norv and it would be anything like 1998 then we're definitely better off without him, without both of them.

Kind of funny how Cooke is picking now to speak up.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=skinsguy;613252]True, but I think that line is very thin. I do believe it took Norv Turner too long to finally get the Redskins into playing better football and winning games. However, point being is, they finally started winning more. They finally started winning division championships and getting into the playoffs. I felt Snyder was a little hasty in firing Turner midseason. Especially when the Redskins were at a 7-6 record. By all accounts, Turner should have been fired before the '98 or '99 seasons. But, because he wasn't, and because they (front office) stuck with him, he eventually got the Redskins in the playoffs.

I guess my line of thinking is, if you're going to fire a guy, don't do it after he finally "catches on". Stick with him at that point. I suppose I was giving Turner a free pass for the ugly years we endured under him before that '99 season. From that point on (the '99 playoff season) is when Turner should have been scrutinized the most in my opinion. In another words, "Ok, you have finally started doing what we hired you to do. So, we're starting on a clean slate now. We are going to see if you can at least repeat that and eventually improve from that. If so, then you're working out. If the team regresses, you're gone!"

We can say the team regressed that following year, but since Turner was fired before the season was over (at a 7-6 record,) then we can't really say for sure that Turner would not have gotten the Redskins into the playoffs again. Or, at least a 10-6 record if nothing else.[/quote]

Fair points

But let's also remember Turner wasn't just 7-6. He had just lost 4 of his last 5 games (including back to back division losses). The team was heading on a downward spiral. Should Snyder have waited until the end of the season? Yes, and he's admitted as much. But Norv did have to go.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

Norv did deserve to get fired. Maybe not in the middle of the season. He's a heck of a offensive coordinator and a nice guy but not a head coach. He got into the playoffs once right? Now, had DS not signed every free agent on the market the year after our NFC East Crown, who knows?

Hey, speaking of the Norv days, these are great stories by Tre Johnson. Check it out. The Spurrier story is great....sleet?

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/10/tre_johnson_on_snyder_tactics.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Tre' Johnson on Snyder Tactics: "It's Pure Comedy"[/url]

Hey, Dan Snyder will get it right, we'll have our day. VC is going to be gone soon. Keep the faith.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;613221]One of the few football related people I have little respect for is John Cooke. At the time of the sale, he came off as disinterested in the Skins, and as the opening line of the article says wanted to be sailing or doing anything but running a team his father had made into a proud and story-filled franchise. I could care less about his moanings, or some media spin from the post to hammer snyder from yet another angle. I hope john enjoys his boat trips but he has no credible reason for being attached to the Skins in any way shape or form.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Why come out now? F him and Snyder

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

John Kent Cooke is on 106.7 the Fan right now (Mike Wise show)

My God he sounds almost exactly like his father!

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613255]Agreed. As for John Kent Cooke, the stories I've heard from players back in those days was that he was a complete figurehead.

His dad didn't trust him to make any big decisions and kept him out of the loop for the most part. I don't believe we would have been any better off necessarily with John Kent Cooke and if his ownership meant we would have Norv and it would be anything like 1998 then we're definitely better off without him, without both of them.

[B]Kind of funny how Cooke is picking now to speak up.[/B][/quote]

He knows at least one thing about football; 'piling on!'

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I remember many saying that the other owners wanted John to get the team, mainly because they thought he'd be a pushover of sorts.

It's not that I wish he'd gotten the team, it's just that the article reinforced my perception of Snyder & the last 10 years. Of course, John KC has an axe to grind, but these days who's going to blame him for calling out Snyder's track record?

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=cpayne5;613224]Jack Kent Cooke was a smart man. If he had wanted his son to have the team when he died, he would have made that possible. But, he knew his son too well to let that happen.[/quote]

This is a very interesting article but IMO, Sonny's quote says it all.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I don't know if our team would be playing any better on Sundays, but the franchise would probably look a little different. For one thing, I doubt we would be so reviled by the press. While Al Davis might be the butt of a lot of jokes in the press, most journalists who have met Snyder absolutely detest the man. Davis is mocked for being senile and a bad manager, Snyder is mocked for being an arrogant jerk. That's not based on the team's performance, it's based on personal interactions with the man and tales of how he treated guys like Mike Nolan, Laveranues Coles, and others. Or how Snyder derided Art Modell as someone he wouldn't want to emulate because he's won just one SB ring.

Also, Snyder has "commercialized" (for lack of a better word) the team. This is the guy who tried to charge admission to training camp. Now, Snyder is running a business and he's made the team much more profitable, but I feel like the team is trying to squeeze every little penny out of the fans. He seems to deal with the fans on an arms-length basis.

Maybe Snyder is a good guy and maybe the team's struggles aren't his fault, but most everything I've read about the guy seems to indicate that he's a world class prick. I'm amazed that a guy who has done such a poor job of interacting with the press is a marketing guru.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=MrSpectre;613244]In comparison to Danny, John Kent Cooke was a model of effective ownership.

On the other hand, this would be true of Beulah the Witch.[/quote]
Well when John was owner his record was 14/17 sticking with a coach with a 49/59 record. DS record is 78/88 which while not great is better then John's record of 14/17. Its real easy when a team fails to come out and point out the problems so it sounds like sour grapes to me. I also don't see how people can say that DS is more interested in making money then having a great football team with all the money he has spent on this team. I think the correct way to look at the past 10 yrs is that Snyder has done a better job at marketing then building a winning team. DS has been willing to spend what ever it takes to try and build a team he has just not gone about it in the correct ways. Thats a big difference then just not carring about the product on the field.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I just find it interesting that we're hearing from John Kent Cooke now that the 'skins are falling apart. It definitely comes out of the woodwork!

I think football itself has become way too commercialized. It seems like the constant rule changes has changed the game completely.

I always like to give the benefit of the doubt to people I don't know personally, but it's hard to like a guy like Dan Snyder. Seems like the only guy that has ever said anything good about him was Joe Gibbs. Probably because Snyder worshiped Joe. I would love for someone like Joe Gibbs to own the team, because we all know he would hire in the right guys in the right positions and build the team the way it should be built.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=Mattyk72;613232]I'm not going to defend Snyder at all, he is what he is.[B] But would we be that much better off with John as owner?[/B] I'm really not sure. The Redskins as we knew them died with Jack.

I feel for what happened to John, but c'mon, his discontent for Snyder seems to be a cover up for the real issue, the fact his Dad passed him over and made it difficult for him to retain the team.[/quote]

Um yes we'd be MUCH better off. We'd have a qualified football man running the show, who doesn't undermine the coach and bring in a Bingo caller to run the offense, there never would've been a hiring of a college coach who didn't want to practice when it's cold and raining, there never would've been a hiring of a coach with no OC or HC experience. I could go on and on. Say what you want about Norv but he knows how to run a professional NFL offense. Leader of men? Hell no. But I'd much rather have him as my coach than Zorn.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;613370]Um yes we'd be MUCH better off. We'd have a qualified football man running the show, who doesn't undermine the coach and bring in a Bingo caller to run the offense, there never would've been a hiring of a college coach who didn't want to practice when it's cold and raining, there never would've been a hiring of a coach with no OC or HC experience. I could go on and on. Say what you want about Norv but he knows how to run a professional NFL offense. Leader of men? Hell no. But I'd much rather have him as my coach than Zorn.[/quote]

You're calling John Kent Cooke a qualified football man? Based on what, being the son of the owner?

Norv is a joke as a head coach. He's no better than Zorn. Chargers won the division last year...at 8-8. He's 2-3 this year.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I guess one thing John would probably have going for him is that he probably wouldn't have fired Charlie Casserly. Not that he was as great a GM as what BB was, but still worlds apart from Vinny C.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613374]You're calling John Kent Cooke a qualified football man? Based on what, being the son of the owner?

Norv is a joke as a head coach. He's no better than Zorn. Chargers won the division last year...at 8-8. He's 2-3 this year.[/quote]

No John Cooke was not a qualified football man but neither was his father. That's why Casserly and Bobby B. were here. To handle the football side of things. The only owners that are somewhat football men are Jones, Davis and maybe Richardson.

Let me ask you this...and again I don't think much of Norv as a HC. But what is the problem w/ San Diego? It's their defense. The defense has just been terrible, partly cause of injuries...to Merriman and J. Williams, but some of it is performace based. That's not his side of the ball is it? It's his responsibility cause he's the head man and he'll take the fall for it, but as someone who can run an NFL offense I'll take Norv over almost anyone in the NFL.....and especially Jim Zorn or Steve Spuirrer

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;613392]No John Cooke was not a qualified football man but neither was his father. That's why Casserly and Bobby B. were here. To handle the football side of things. The only owners that are somewhat football men are Jones, Davis and maybe Richardson.

Let me ask you this...and again I don't think much of Norv as a HC. But what is the problem w/ San Diego? It's their defense. The defense has just been terrible, partly cause of injuries...to Merriman and J. Williams, but some of it is performace based. That's not his side of the ball is it? It's his responsibility cause he's the head man and he'll take the fall for it, but as someone who can run an NFL offense I'll take Norv over almost anyone in the NFL.....and especially Jim Zorn or Steve Spuirrer[/quote]

Fair points on the first paragraph.

As for the second, Norv has made some seriously questionable play calls in recent weeks. Draw to LT on 4th and 2 at the end of the game against the Ravens. Almost the same situation near the goal line the other day, but to Sproles instead.

I think he's a bit overrated as an offensive coordinator. But anyhow, this was mainly about Norv as a head coach in which case I think he's one of the worst.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

Wow, this has turned into a romancing of the Norvelle era! Never thought I'd see that, things are really bad here when people wish Norv came back.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=freddyg12;613417]Wow, this has turned into a romancing of the Norvelle era! Never thought I'd see that, things are really bad here when people wish Norv came back.[/quote]

I don't think anyone wants Norv Back. I just personally think he can run an offense better than Zorn.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

Eventually we have to stick with a coach. The coach should show competency of course, but if every coach got canned for 2 bad years we wouldn't have your jimmy johnsons, etc of the nfl world

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

How are those grapes, John? Sour?

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I worked with John Kent Cooke on the 1988 Superbowl victory parade. The man knows how to run a football team. Snyder does NOT!

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;613333]I don't know if our team would be playing any better on Sundays, but the franchise would probably look a little different. For one thing, I doubt we would be so reviled by the press. While Al Davis might be the butt of a lot of jokes in the press, most journalists who have met Snyder absolutely detest the man. Davis is mocked for being senile and a bad manager, Snyder is mocked for being an arrogant jerk. That's not based on the team's performance, it's based on personal interactions with the man and tales of how he treated guys like Mike Nolan, Laveranues Coles, and others. Or how Snyder derided Art Modell as someone he wouldn't want to emulate because he's won just one SB ring.

Also, Snyder has "commercialized" (for lack of a better word) the team. This is the guy who tried to charge admission to training camp. Now, Snyder is running a business and he's made the team much more profitable, but I feel like the team is trying to squeeze every little penny out of the fans. He seems to deal with the fans on an arms-length basis.

Maybe Snyder is a good guy and maybe the team's struggles aren't his fault, but most everything I've read about the guy seems to indicate that he's a world class prick. I'm amazed that a guy who has done such a poor job of interacting with the press is a marketing guru.[/quote]

Very interesting post.
I really think buying the Redskins really changed Danny for the worse. The Danny was never really in the limelight until he bought the Redskins.
Jack Kent Cooke on the other hand bought the LA Lakers in 1965, built the LA Forum and created the now famous yellow and purple uniforms. He coined the term the Fabulous Forum. This guy was an amazing businessman. He also bought the LA kings. He did not become majority owner of the Skins until 1974.
JKC could handle the ego trip when his Skins finally won a SB and later three SB's and became one of the top franchises in the NFL. Hell Cooke built the current Redskins cash cow of the stadium they play in. Danny boy really did not have to do much. But yet he gets immense credit.
DS sense of reality is warped, he really acts like those three SB trophies in the case are his. Like he earned them.
He is arrogant with out earning it, so people do not respect him.
At least Al Davis has earned his SB trophies and the right to be eccentric, partly because he is really old. Danny boy has no excuse other than being really rich and lacking in the ability to run a FO. Ten difficult years later, not much has changed.
I am sure JKC could be a prick as well, but he was a respected prick. DS is just a arrogant prick that can not allow someone other then himself produce a winner in DC.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

There are many ways you can run an organization. You can be cutthroat and vicious, using duplicity to get to the top and then the leverage of your title to force people to do your bidding. Anyone who crosses you must be dealt with quickly and without mercy. And because your authority is derived from your position, you must never admit you were wrong, because that shows weakness.

Another way to run an organization is to lead by example, be humble, be self-aware and willing to admit when you've made a mistake. You can make a commitment to quality that ensures that even when things are going well, you're going to be asking "what could we do better" and when things are going poorly, you don't just eject people, you focus on processes that have failed. In short, others follow you not out of fear of your title, but out of respect for your character.

You can apply these archetypes to any number of organizations: clubs, businesses, governments, even sports franchises.

In general I've seen sporadic evidence of the first model working in various industries. However, if you look at the market leaders in almost any industry, I would be surprised if that organization didn't look a lot more like the second group than the first.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

...all this Norv Turner should be put in perspective.

We had a playoff team in 1999 with Norv Turner, it was the last time we won the division. It took a while....but we rebuilt the team.

The following year, Mr. Snyder came to town and...Jeff George...Deon Sanders...etc... You are really going to put the 7-6 on Norv. I would give anything for the Norv Turner years.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

F Norv Turner. F his inability to keep a locker room in check. F his 0-7 start. F his blown 7-1 start. F him

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

I'm too young to know a pre-Snyder Redskins team...all I can say is, screw Snyder

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=souperbad;613747]...all this Norv Turner should be put in perspective.

We had a playoff team in 1999 with Norv Turner, it was the last time we won the division. It took a while....but we rebuilt the team.

The following year, Mr. Snyder came to town and...Jeff George...Deon Sanders...etc... You are really going to put the 7-6 on Norv. I would give anything for the Norv Turner years.[/quote]

Whoa nelly. While we can't say for sure what John v Snyder would look like. One thing we do have is a track record for Norv. San Diego is the epitomy of a Norv Turner coached team. 14-2 under Marty. Norv came in and it has been backtracking every year. If Norv had stayed, or continued his years here, fans would have screamed just as loud for his ouster, and cursed Snyder for keeping him.
Norv is an OC, a good one. Not a HC, not at all, not a good one.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;613793]I'm too young to know a pre-Snyder Redskins team...all I can say is, screw Snyder[/quote]

You really missed out on a great time, with a great character owner, who enjoyed the fans and did the best he could for the team. This is why everyone is so upset!

Because we were once such a proud franchise and now we are at the bottom of the mountain, remembering how it used to be. And really don't see it getting any better.

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=SmootSmack;613790]F Norv Turner. F his inability to keep a locker room in check. F his 0-7 start. F his blown 7-1 start. F him[/quote]

Wow. I knew you were not a big fan of Norv "someone beat my face with a baseball cleat" Turner. Didn't know you had so much suppressed rage for the man.

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Re: More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;613829]Wow. I knew you were not a big fan of Norv "someone beat my face with a baseball cleat" Turner. Didn't know you had so much suppressed rage for the man.

Not that there is anything wrong with that![/quote]

LOL. I think he's a great guy but he blows as a head coach. And sometimes you just have to be blunt