Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

This is more of a question for the cap experts in the forum. Since it looks like 2010 is going to be a capless year, could we trade some heavy hitters without a future cap hit(assuming the cap will be back in place in 2011)? Will it really be a chance to wipe the slate clean?

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Dude y would we trade big al??? He has made our pass rush good for the first time in yrs!! As far as cp.. Who cares? He is getting old anyway. What we need to do is trade that bumb ass qb of ours and fire zorn

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;615072]Dude y would we trade big al??? He has made our pass rush good for the first time in yrs!! As far as cp.. Who cares? He is getting old anyway. What we need to do is trade that bumb ass qb of ours and fire zorn[/quote]

If you would have read what he asked instead of the first 8 words you would know that he wasn't debating the effectiveness of this move but rather the cap hit ramifications.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

i think portis would be too hard to trade for a value that we would want to get for him. And as for Big Al, I do think it would make sense to trade him in the uncapped year because it seems like the cap will not increase so much year to year after the cba appears and it will make it very hard to sign other players. But of course it will NEVER happen (unless Danny had the master plan to trade him in the uncapped year the whole time...but that seems very unlikely considering that it is a very unprecedented move to sign someone who does well and then trade them, and considering that historically we trade draft picks for players and try to lock them up, not the other way around.)

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

o and to answer the origional question...yes we could absorb the whole cap hit in the uncapped year

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=LMsexyAO;615073]If you would have read what he asked instead of the first 8 words you would know that he wasn't debating the effectiveness of this move but rather the cap hit ramifications.[/quote]

Ok I understand but doing that would set us back even more.. And as far as this uncapped year, I doubt we will make many moves that will differ our team that much anyways

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Haynesworth have been playing pretty good, why should we trade him? The contract is the issue, but once again, the uncapped is next year.. I'm pretty sure Snyder has enough money to pay all guaranteed in the contract off next year..

As for Portis; it's somewhat sticky situation I think.. I don't think it would be easy to trade him because I don't think there will be a team who would want to give up a good round pick for a guy who we ran for 300's almost ever year with an expensive contract?? That is unless a team is looking for a RB who can block.. What I think we should do is we must find a way to restructure his contract or just pay off the guaranteed, as well.. Portis is important in passing plays; he blocks like a great FB.. And we can use him for close 3rd down plays or something like that..

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

theres no reason to keep haynesworth around when he's only got 4 good years left in the tank and itll be 3-4 years before this team becomes competitive (assuming we are rebuilding). contract aside, it would make sense to trade him for 1sts in 2010 and 2011 for young players who would actually be coming into their primes when the team becomes competitive.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

The problem with several of the contracts currently isn't the cap ramifications as much as the guaranteed money in several contracts (including Portis). In the uncapped year, all accelerated money means nothing. IMO, a lot of teams will dump old players, probably to have them sign min. contracts w/ NE.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I mentioned Portis since he is definitely on the decline. Big Al is to me a Bruce Smith type. He contributes, but just not worth the big $$$$$$$ we gave him. Plus we might get some picks for him. He is one of the few guys we could expect to get anything of value for. Let's face it, not much real star talent on the team right now. No team is going to give up a #1 pick for these guys, but you might get say 2 round 2 picks or 2 round 3 picks for each. My reasoning is to shore up the O line in a relatively short span(2-3 years) and possibly get a QB out of it(RB won't hurt either).

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=GridIron26;615078]Haynesworth have been playing pretty good, why should we trade him? The contract is the issue, but once again, the uncapped is next year.. I'm pretty sure Snyder has enough money to pay all guaranteed in the contract off next year..

As for Portis; it's somewhat sticky situation I think.. I don't think it would be easy to trade him because I don't think there will be a team who would want to give up a good round pick for a guy who we ran for 300's almost ever year with an expensive contract?? That is unless a team is looking for a RB who can block.. What I think we should do is we must find a way to restructure his contract or just pay off the guaranteed, as well.. Portis is important in passing plays; he blocks like a great FB.. And we can use him for close 3rd down plays or something like that..[/quote]

I mentioned Al because he is one of the few players that would garner multiple pick trade interest.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

No way, We cannot trade Big Al, he's our best player..other than Cooley..

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;615083]I mentioned Al because he is one of the few players that would garner mutliple pick trade interest.[/quote]

Well, if you are talking about like 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd? or 1st and 1st for next draft then I would definitely consider it.. Otherwise, I'm not going to give up a player that make some players better.. Yes, he gets exhausted fast but he makes up by making plays..

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I doubt you would get a first round pick for Al, Definitely not for Clinton. Multiple second rounders would be fine by me. Remember my line of thinking with this is to replentish the O line is a relatively short time period and pick up a QB.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

RT

You know that that stands for. If you need a hint: Schneed10

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Pay off the majority of AH's contract during the no CAP yr. Rework the contract in regards to the remaining money's owed.

Time to part ways with CP. Pay him off and cut him. We need young healthy RB's who actually want to play, not RB's who think preseason is not important. Timing is everything and CP fails to see the importance of him being on the field getting reps so the O-lineman and QB get their timing down.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=Redskins_P;615110]RT

You know that that stands for. If you need a hint: Schneed10[/quote]

Yeah! I would think Schneed10 would be the man, It's been so long since we've played an uncapped year, all the ramifications associated with it seem like a blur at this point. There will probably be new rules in place that didn't exist before we moved to a salry cap.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Why the hate for Al? He is coming off a 12 million a year game.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I can see dumping Portis but why dump Haynesworth? He's one of the only ones out there that knows what the hell he's doing. The money is going to be there for him; so there's no need to try and get out of anything or save money.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;615072]Dude y would we trade big al??? He has made our pass rush good for the first time in yrs!! [/quote]

Because, he's Gus Frerotte. :benched:


As for Portis, the answer (cap-wise) is no. We'll never get enough in return to make up for his big salary.

I still think Portis has something left in the tank if he had a line in front of him and didn't have to run the same play every time. He just had the longest run of his career. We're better off keeping him and trying to keep him fresh AND blocked for, a lot like the NJ Jets are doing to keep Thomas Jones productive as he's getting older.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I think the real trick would be if we could accelerate his bonus to 2011. If you could pay off the bonus next year, then you could dump him the moment his performance started to fall without any dead money for it. Fat Boy is playing well, be he is not worth the turbo inflated money and it is a huge handcuff in future years. I have no problem dumping him(and Hall too), but it would be better to just accelerate the bonus if you could.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;615204]I can see dumping Portis but why dump Haynesworth? He's one of the only ones out there that knows what the hell he's doing. The money is going to be there for him; so there's no need to try and get out of anything or save money.[/quote]

For those who choose to criticize Haynesworth obviously haven't taken into consideration the fact the man is pushing more than 600 pounds on every snap he plays. It's not unrealistic to asume he will gradually tire. Since he occupies so many blockers, more should be expected from the players around him.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=munny;615209]I think the real trick would be if we could accelerate his bonus to 2011. If you could pay off the bonus next year, then you could dump him the moment his performance started to fall without any dead money for it. Fat Boy is playing well, be he is not worth the turbo inflated money and it is a huge handcuff in future years. I have no problem dumping him(and Hall too), but it would be better to just accelerate the bonus if you could.[/quote]

Dumping Haynesworth and Halll...wow...they've both played extremely well and are bright spots in this nightmare of a season. Look how many sacks the D-line is getting...Carter and Orakpo included...they're attributable to the attention Haynesworth demands. Hall has been great except for one missed tackle in a game we weren't going to win anyways because our offense needed to score again. He's leading the team in INTs and they've been key picks with good runbacks that set up the offense to score. They need all the defensive help they can get.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Hall has played like crap. He is the easiest first down in the game. He simply cannot cover in man. He is ok in zone when he gets help over the top, but he simply can't cover. Playing 6 winless teams has made him look passable if you only look at the numbers. I expect the Iggles to scorch him.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Gus great question I have been really intrested in the whole uncapped year and what are the positives and negatives for our team because we have been spending without regard for some time now. I've been wondering what can we do next year that will help us out thats if it will be the only uncapped year?

What about other players on the roster? We are paying alot of money to multiple players that are not performing to there pay , by that I mean they will be paid to shower basiclly (Dion Sanders).

So can we pay Big Al the majority of his contract next year and instead of the year that we owe him 36million we will owe him say 3 or 4million? I have more qustions but if any one can answer those it will give me a better understanding because I am clueless on this matter?

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

If I were to trade or cut players next year, it would be:

Hall
Betts
Moss
Griffin
Thomas
Samuels (retiring)
Daniels
Wynn
Montgomery
Heyer
Yoder
Suisham
Landry

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

The only thing you really need to advance is the bonus. Otherwise you commit money unnecessarily. If the player just has normal salary, you can always cut them and pay no penalty, so we just would need to advance those bonuses.

My list would be a bit different. I would simply have a short list of keepers and everyone else I won't shed a tear for -- if it meant a real, true, rebuilding team based on youth and draft picks.

Keep:
Offense: Cooley
Defense: Mcintosh, Orakpo, Jarmon, Landry(I still have hope).

That's it.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=munny;615244]Hall has played like crap. He is the easiest first down in the game. He simply cannot cover in man. He is ok in zone when he gets help over the top, but he simply can't cover. Playing 6 winless teams has made him look passable if you only look at the numbers. I expect the Iggles to scorch him.[/quote]

Although I'm not 100% certain; I think it's more of due to scheme issues. Blache always have Hall to give receivers 10 yards cushion or something like that.. It's pretty difficult to shut down receivers when you are 10 yards away; trust me, I know..

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I would most likely cut CP next year. We need a fresh start and new blood. I guess that's a decision for new management though (hopefully).

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=Buster;615223]Dumping Haynesworth and Halll...wow...they've both played extremely well and are bright spots in this nightmare of a season. Look how many sacks the D-line is getting...Carter and Orakpo included...they're attributable to the attention Haynesworth demands. Hall has been great except for one missed tackle in a game we weren't going to win anyways because our offense needed to score again. He's leading the team in INTs and they've been key picks with good runbacks that set up the offense to score. They need all the defensive help they can get.[/quote]

AH has pretty well IMO. Everybody is on him about the # of plays he's on the field for. Guess what, other teams sub too. Imagine that.

Hall on the other hand, i'll disagree w/ you. He's not bad. He's above average tops. He's not worth the money we paid him. We overpaid, big time. As usual right. He does make some int's which is great though but just not a shut down cb.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

If 2010 is uncapped, any player of value who cannot contribute to the success of this team in 2012 and beyond should be traded in 2010 for draft picks. If Haynesworth continues to play like he has thus far (and yes, he has met, if not exceeded, all reasonable expecations of him), then he's worth at least a 1st rounder in 2010 and in 2011. Assuming we do what we've been needing to do for eyars and enter full-on rebuilding mode, Hayneswoth won't have anything left in the tank by the time we become competitive again. There's absolutely no reason (other than his garaunteed salary) to keep him here when trading him could yield multiple 1st round picks.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I think Haynesworth has played fine too. He has done what we wanted, and he has always needed to be subbed out. We just don't have strong enough ends to really make it pay off with sacks. BUT... he is overpriced for what he gives us.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=munny;615366]I think Haynesworth has played fine too. He has done what we wanted, and he has always needed to be subbed out. We just don't have strong enough ends to really make it pay off with sacks. BUT... he is overpriced for what he gives us.[/quote]

Isn't Carter second in the NFC with 6 sacks, and doesn't Orakpo have 4?

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;615369]Isn't Carter second in the NFC with 6 sacks, and doesn't Orakpo have 4?[/quote]

Remember we are also the team that "couldn't get a sack if we worked at Giant." And Hall has how many INTs? Now if the D could get a couple scores, than maybe atleast that side of the ball would not be a laugh!

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;615358]If 2010 is uncapped, any player of value who cannot contribute to the success of this team in 2012 and beyond should be traded in 2010 for draft picks. If Haynesworth continues to play like he has thus far (and yes, he has met, if not exceeded, all reasonable expecations of him), then he's worth at least a 1st rounder in 2010 and in 2011. Assuming we do what we've been needing to do for eyars and enter full-on rebuilding mode, Hayneswoth won't have anything left in the tank by the time we become competitive again. There's absolutely no reason (other than his garaunteed salary) to keep him here when trading him could yield multiple 1st round picks.[/quote]

I do agree w/ your logic. However, I would doubt that new management would be willing to just concede that the next couple years are years that we are going to be incapable of winning. We'll see. I don't think we'd get 2 1sts for him though. Maybe a first and a middle round. Remember, that a new team would have to pick up the big salary too.

That being said a team rebuilding has to consider everything. We may have a top 5 pick in next years draft. What if we had 2 first rounders and added another 2nd/3rd round pick? So 2 first rounders, 2 seconds or 1 second and 1 third.

That would make for a lot of options, huh? Qb, OL or 2, RB.

Rebuilding is alot easier w/ top picks. Maybe I just talked myself into it.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=munny;615255]The only thing you really need to advance is the bonus. Otherwise you commit money unnecessarily. If the player just has normal salary, you can always cut them and pay no penalty, so we just would need to advance those bonuses.

My list would be a bit different. I would simply have a short list of keepers and everyone else I won't shed a tear for -- if it meant a real, true, rebuilding team based on youth and draft picks.

Keep:
Offense: Cooley
Defense: Mcintosh, Orakpo, Jarmon, Landry(I still have hope).

That's it.[/quote]

If I were going to rebuild, those are probably the guys I would keep as well -- although I'm not up to speed on their salaries. It's not about who's good -- it's all about value.

Talent < Salary = poor value
Talent > Salary = good value

Most of our good players are overpaid, and therefore we're getting poor value. When you are getting good value for your dollars, you have room to sign even more quality players. More quality players = more quality depth.

Haynesworth is the perfect example. He's overpaid, but people argue that since he's good it doesn't matter. Well, he can't stay in the game for more than a few consecutive plays, so when he comes out somebody else has to go in. But, we don't have much money to spend on that guy that replaces him, because that money went to Haynesworth. Don't even get me started on injuries.

Snyder seems like a financially savvy guy, so you'd think he'd understand the importance of value. But, it seems what is painfully obvious to the rest of the world is still just a mystery to Snyder.

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=redsk1;615373]I do agree w/ your logic. However, I would doubt that new management would be willing to just concede that the next couple years are years that we are going to be incapable of winning. We'll see. I don't think we'd get 2 1sts for him though. Maybe a first and a middle round. Remember, that a new team would have to pick up the big salary too.
[/quote]
Well we're also paying like 32 mil out of the 42 or whatever it was guaranteed in the first 13 months of his contract.. so the other team could get him at a "bargain" for the remainder.. I don't know how his optional money would play into a trade though

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

Given the amount of guaranteed money left on Portis' deal - and that the team acquiring him in a trade acquires the existing contract - I doubt you'd find any team willing to give the Skins more than a conditional fifth round pick for him.


Add to the burden that his contract brings the diva reputation he has shaped for himself and it might be a conditional sixth round pick is the best offer out there...

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;617175]Given the amount of guaranteed money left on Portis' deal - and that the team acquiring him in a trade acquires the existing contract - I doubt you'd find any team willing to give the Skins more than a conditional fifth round pick for him.


Add to the burden that his contract brings the diva reputation he has shaped for himself and it might be a conditional sixth round pick is the best offer out there...[/quote]

At least we will get a pick for him.. I mean, we found few good players from late rounds such as Doughty, Horton (granted, vinny had help), Golston, and maybe Mitchell?

Re: Can we trade Portis and Haynesworth without getting nailed(in future years) during a capless year?
 

I can't see anyway they get a pick for portis. No one wants that contract at all let alone trading a draft pick to get it. He is on the downside and he's paid like he is the best RB in the league.