Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

First, if the mods want to merge this, it's all good.

I really want to ask the biggest underlying question: How much of yesterday's game, good and bad, were tied to the introduction of Sherman Lewis. Some key examples that I would cite:

Rock/Betts together in the backfield more.
DT specifically thrown at more
Shotgun at the 2 - good and bad plays out of it.

Maybe less specific but also:
more confusion in the pass pro, without Zorn in his ear did Campbell miss setting assignments

Also was the playcalling better, or just different?
It seemed to me that player execution was noticeably worse. Particularly Campbell early. and middle. and late.

So, bottom line, with the bye week here, and 2 weeks to reset this season. What did bringing Lewis in impact? Will his presence be an overall positive, negative, or I don't give an eff, throw me another beer? (Trample, I know your answer :) )

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I thought the playcalling was fine. It may have actually been better than recent weeks imo. Execution on the other hand was lacking in the OL and QB.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I don't think we can attribute DT's role solely to Lewis. Zorn had said a few weeks ago that they were trying to get him involved & obviously he'd put him in the starting lineup v. KC.

I did like the shotgun inside the 5. that play to Davis was a td if campbell can just hold on a split second longer to get off an accurate throw. Totally a great call though.

Were the pass pro problems more related to assignments or simply that Davis & Heyer couldn't block their guys? (on the bright side, I didn't see MW's man getting pressure, he appears to be playing fairly well)

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

oh, one thing that killed me w/the playcalling: a couple of the sacks were on 2nd & long, and we called play action. By the time JC was turned around to throw the iggles were all over him. That seemed poor play calling to me; the iggles had no reason to respect our run game, they stopped it all night. To run play action you generally have to have some success running first. We didn't have any.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I thought the playcalling was hugely improved.

Execution, hmmm....

Zorn needs to be relieved of [B]all[/B] responsibilities, he is clearly an idiot.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Play calling wasn't an issue and honestly I didn't see where it impacted things positively or negatively. The main issue is, and has been all year with the execution side of things.

You can call plays directly from a Bill Walsh playbook but it's not going to matter if the players don't go out and do their jobs.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Playcalling I thought was a little better, but JC, Heyer, Rabach, ARE, Montgomery, Williams are all horrible. I thought JC's play was maybe the sh*test I have ever seen him. HE IS NOT IMPROVING. The execution was garbage. I just cant stand ARE, put him on the sh*t FA list under DS's reign of terror. That was another waste of F-ing money. God how bad can this FO be? Its the f*cking horrible.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Decent play calling, lousy o-line, lousy QB and no sense of urgency with this team.
I'm sure Snyder will fix things during the bye week and we'll be on the road to the division title, the playoffs, etc.
Yeah, Snyder the genius does it again.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=freddyg12;616876]I don't think we can attribute DT's role solely to Lewis. Zorn had said a few weeks ago that they were trying to get him involved & obviously he'd put him in the starting lineup v. KC.

I did like the shotgun inside the 5. that play to Davis was a td if campbell can just hold on a split second longer to get off an accurate throw. Totally a great call though.

Were the pass pro problems more related to assignments or simply that Davis & Heyer couldn't block their guys? (on the bright side, I didn't see MW's man getting pressure, he appears to be playing fairly well)[/quote]

Zorn has said he wanted to get DT more involved every week since last year man. He also said that he's been calling plays that use Thomas just to occupy a defender.. maybe that had something to do with the gameplan, which I'm sure that Lewis has been an integral part of.

With Davis I think that Campbell usually looked at those routes for Cooley so it was easy for him to get the ball to Davis.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I thought the play calling was good. The execution is horrible! And honestly, if the execution had been there all year 'round, Zorn would probably still be calling plays.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Play calling was not an issue. Players need to play and our main guys are not that good. I'm starting to really turn on Portis. And JC... for god's sake man... just sit down.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

JC wasn't great but he wasn't garbage, the tackles are so bad that if you put Peyton Manning in there he would have had only a marginally better game...I don't think you can put the blame on JC, last year when the OL was decent he had a decent first half, this is just a continuation of the second half of last season when the OL was just god awful

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Nice use of the word effect, CRed ;)

I thought the playcalling was fine for the most part. There was one play, which in the grand scheme was minor, but that I thought could have and should have been called differently.

17-0 Eagles early in the 2nd quarter and Rock has a great return to our own 40 yard line. Eagles get a penalty and that tacks on another 15 yards. So now we're in Eagles territory. Just had a great return and some nice yards off a penalty added on. I would have gone play action deep pass right there, instead of 2 yards up the middle by Portis. I understand not wanting to deviate from a game plan but we had a bit of a momentum in that instant and I think we should have attacked.

Otherwise, I thought Lewis did just fine.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=SmootSmack;616941]Nice use of the word effect, CRed ;)

I thought the playcalling was fine for the most part. There was one play, which in the grand scheme was minor, but that I thought could have and should have been called differently.

17-0 Eagles early in the 2nd quarter and Rock has a great return to our own 40 yard line. Eagles get a penalty and that tacks on another 15 yards. So now we're in Eagles territory. Just had a great return and some nice yards off a penalty added on. I would have gone play action deep pass right there, instead of 2 yards up the middle by Portis. I understand not wanting to deviate from a game plan but we had a bit of a momentum in that instant and I think we should have attacked.

Otherwise, I thought Lewis did just fine.[/quote]

Yep, I remember right at that point going "Okay, take a shot at it, right where you want to have this opportunity"

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I wasn't able to watch the entire game, but seeing Davis and Thomas involved in the offense is enough for me to endorse Sherm.

Anyone else feel like JC could have been a different player if he had a different offensive line (even under Gibbs I recall our O-line not being that great in pass pro).

Kind of like how I always felt about Ramsey. At first he had courage, stood strong in the pocket and delivered his passes while taking hits. But he just got beat up after a while behind Spurrier's whacky schemes and got shell shocked.

I really think that taking so many hits and having no confidence in the offensive line will pretty much ruin a young QB and his development.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

They actually looked more aggressive to me. I think if a lot of these so-called "stars" were benched we'd have a better chance of winning.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Also this is what Lewis 2nd or 3rd week dealing with this team so to score as many points as Zorn did in his first week as play caller is promising. We should have had 20 points and kicked that field goal instead of letting Rabach dry hump the football on 4th down.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Brikks;616957]I wasn't able to watch the entire game, but seeing Davis and Thomas involved in the offense is enough for me to endorse Sherm.

Anyone else feel like JC could have been a different player if he had a different offensive line (even under Gibbs I recall our O-line not being that great in pass pro).

Kind of like how I always felt about Ramsey. At first he had courage, stood strong in the pocket and delivered his passes while taking hits. But he just got beat up after a while behind Spurrier's whacky schemes and got shell shocked.

I really think that taking so many hits and having no confidence in the offensive line will pretty much ruin a young QB and his development.[/quote]

You missed a great second half for us on both sides of the ball, except for Rabach costing us a TD.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I was basically interested in seeing what affect his play calling was going to have on the overall flow of the game. For the most part it would seem all went over without many glitches. Play calling would apear to be an non issue, execution of the plays called is the real concern.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Playcalling wasn't an issue, just like alot of others have said the execution from JC and the Oline is awful. ARE can't be returning kicks any more. That ball hitting him in the face was laughable. I really don't mind this anymore, I find this team very funny.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Playcalling WAS a concern before though. We actually went for TDs and passed near the goal line...and scored. No more stretch plays on crucial downs, no more obvious playcalls. Thomas and Davis were involved. Yes, David was more involved due to Cooley's injury, but he was in the game and productive like never before. Also, using 2 halfbacks in the backfield at times gave us an added dimension and it worked fairly well considering we have no line. We also used the shotgun a lot more than under Zorn, something we were all asking for since the line can't block. It was very effective when Rabach was able to actually get the ball snapped into JC's hands. I was very pleased with the selection of plays and the lack of predictability.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;616983]Playcalling wasn't an issue, just like alot of others have said the execution from JC and the Oline is awful. ARE can't be returning kicks any more. That ball hitting him in the face was laughable. I really don't mind this anymore, I find this team very funny.[/quote]

The sad part about the ARE situation with punt returns is that the problem was identifyied in the off-season. Management knew the problem needed to be addressed, brougt in a couple players to compete and failed to keep any of them. Insteadd they talked about Anthony Alridge fumbling in a meaningless pre-season game. Well this is the real deal, real games and our #1 PR is costing us real games........fumbling.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Longtimefan;617020]The sad part about the ARE situation with punt returns is that the problem was identifyied in the off-season. Management knew the problem needed to be addressed, brougt in a couple players to compete and failed to keep any of them. Insteadd they talked about Anthony Alridge fumbling in a meaningless pre-season game. Well this is the real deal, real games and our #1 PR is costing us real games........fumbling.[/quote]

Lets see we had 3 different guys try to return punts with the same result last night. Its not the returners its the blocking or the lack of blocking that is the problem.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I thought that Sherm Lewis did a few different things but overall the change was not significant. I thought that the game showed that play calling was not at the center of our offensive woes.

Haynesworth is right. We lack fire and this is our biggest problem.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=firstdown;617025]Lets see we had 3 different guys try to return punts with the same result last night. Its not the returners its the blocking or the lack of blocking that is the problem.[/quote]

I agree with that assessment, and it's been that way for a long time now. Regardless of who we had as the return man, he would always be surrounded by would be tacklers simultaneous with catching the ball.

Even for the short period we had "primetime" here he couldn't get the job done either for te same reasons.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;616983]Playcalling wasn't an issue, just like alot of others have said the execution from JC and the Oline is awful. ARE can't be returning kicks any more. That ball hitting him in the face was laughable. I really don't mind this anymore, [B]I find this team very funny[/B].[/quote]

For real!

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

The playcalling was fine. The execution sucked. When a team cannot execute the fundamentals of football like quarterback snap, catching a punt, blocking, tackling and pass coverage, it doesn't matter what play is called. There were people open on most of the plays called. Pass protection was the biggest problem and ball security was the second biggest problem.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;616868]I really want to ask the biggest underlying question: How much of yesterday's game, good and bad, were tied to the introduction of Sherman Lewis......Maybe less specific but also:
more confusion in the pass pro, without Zorn in his ear did Campbell miss setting assignments

Also was the playcalling better, or just different?
[/quote]

I haven't gone back and re-watching the game but this is what i saw:

o We moved the ball
o He got Jason on the move with roll-outs
o There was more motion and shifting
o There were more formations
**Lol, Someone should have told Lewis that Fred Davis is a suspect blocker

The Most meaningful difference?
o **We threw the ball in the RZ inside the 10 yardline and we scored!!**

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

The effect was a 27-17 loss. That's all folks!

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Mattyk72;616889]Play calling wasn't an issue and honestly I didn't see where it impacted things positively or negatively. The main issue is, and has been all year with the execution side of things.

You can call plays directly from a Bill Walsh playbook but it's not going to matter if the players don't go out and do their jobs.[/quote]

You hit the nail on the head.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I thought play calling was way better than Zorn's play calling, if you don't see a difference you weren't watching the game. We passed the ball inside the 20 and we scored, and would have scored more if Rabach doesn't goof off the ball. The offense actually had some flow and rythm to it, what stopped it was J Campbell throwing late OFTEN and fumbling the ball (ARE also) had JC manned up we would have won. I sy kudos to Sherm Lewis he called a very imaginative game that wasn't predictable like when Zorn was calling plays..

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Mattyk72;616889]Play calling wasn't an issue and honestly I didn't see where it impacted things positively or negatively. The main issue is, and has been all year with the execution side of things.

You can call plays directly from a Bill Walsh playbook but it's not going to matter if the players don't go out and do their jobs.[/quote]

Yup. The line is terrible, and when on occasion they do give JC enough time to look downfield, our god awful receivers don't get open. Maybe that's a Stan Hixon issue? Seems to me there is plenty of physical talent amongst the receivers, but for whatever reason they aren't open. Moss dropping TDs that hit him in the hands doesn't help things either.

I would say that regardless of how the rest of the season plays out, Stan Hixon is among the many who need to be shown the door.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Mattyk72;616889]Play calling wasn't an issue and honestly I didn't see where it impacted things positively or negatively. The main issue is, and has been all year with the execution side of things.

You can call plays directly from a Bill Walsh playbook but it's not going to matter if the players don't go out and do their jobs.[/quote]




Amen to that... That isn't Jerry Rice and John Taylor out there at WR. That isn't Dwight Clark at TE. That isn't an OL made up of 5 competent NFL players. And that is not Joe Montana/Steve Young under center. As Gruden and Jaws kept pointing out last night, it's the execution - - stupid.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=GMScud;617083]Yup. The line is terrible, and when on occasion they do give JC enough time to look downfield, our god awful receivers don't get open. Maybe that's a Stan Hixon issue? Seems to me there is plenty of physical talent amongst the receivers, but for whatever reason they aren't open. Moss dropping TDs that hit him in the hands doesn't help things either.

I would say that regardless of how the rest of the season plays out, Stan Hixon is among the many who need to be shown the door.[/quote]

I don't think it's a Hixon issue at all. I think it's a JC issue when it comes to trying to get the ball down the field to the receivers.

The few rare instances where he does have time, he either rushes through his reads or he doesn't attempt a pass unless a guy is wide freaking open. Who many times do we see him pull the ball back down and dump it off? The MNF crew noted this several times.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

In two weeks (of prep time) he equaled our best offensive production against the second best team we have played this year. I consider that pretty good? It will be interesting to see what happens over the bye

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

The execution was horrible, just goes to show what the real problem is.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Mattyk72;617149]I don't think it's a Hixon issue at all. I think it's a JC issue when it comes to trying to get the ball down the field to the receivers.

The few rare instances where he does have time, he either rushes through his reads or he doesn't attempt a pass unless a guy is wide freaking open. Who many times do we see him pull the ball back down and dump it off? The MNF crew noted this several some imes.[/quote]

JC....obviously cannot operate in this environment. He needs more time, security, etc. Some other QB's can deal with it. However, who is that going to be....that is available? That having been said, if we do the right thing and rebuild the line, that may go a long way to making JC...serviceable. At least until some better QB options become available

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

[quote=Hog1;617158]JC....obviously cannot operate in this environment. He needs more time, security, etc. Some other QB's can deal with it. However, who is that going to be....that is available? That having been said, if we do the right thing and rebuild the line, that may go a long way to making JC...serviceable. At least until some better QB options become available[/quote]

Agreed, JC does not look comfortable at all. And you could really see this in the first half, he has so much going on around him and I'm sure its impacting his playing. He really has to just calm down and make better decisions.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

Let's face it. It's the NFL. Your offensive line is not always going to make it so that you can drop back and wait for a receiver to be wide open before you throw the ball. You are going to get rushed and you're going to get flushed out of the pocket. A good QB is going to know how to operate under pressure and make the plays. JC wasn't making the plays last night. For Pete's sake, he didn't even see a WIDE OPEN Santana Moss.

Re: Sherman Lewis, what was his effect
 

I agree that the O-Line has not caused all of our problems on offense. There are a lot of things that need to be fixed, QB being one of them.

I've had mixed feelings about rather I think we should draft another rookie QB or pick up a FA next year. I do agree that the focus of the draft should be O-Line though.

There should be some mediocre QBs on the FA list next year as either Tavarias Jackson or Sage Rosenfields should be released from the Vikings next year. Jeff Garcia is still available and Quinn or Anderson will be available for trade. Any of these guys are good picks to take over at QB till we can find a franchise QB to take over our offense.