Why Gibbs is Sticking with Brunell..my opinion that is.
 

First of all, let me start by saying that I am not a big Brunell fan. I think he was once a good QB and he may be able to be that again some day. But just maybe not here with the Skins.

Last night I did some serious thinking as to why Gibbs would stick with Brunell and here is what I came up with. I can see why Gibbs is sticking with Brunell. One of the reasons is that the last thing the Skins need is a QB controversy. If he were to pull Brunell and start Ramsey, there would be such a wave of doubts that would rise from the fans and most importantly within the TEAM. Basically by starting Ramsey, he would be saying that his judgement was wrong. Once this happened then everyone would start doubting his other decisions. Another reason that Gibbs is not starting Ramsey is that I think he wants the O line to be much better and more consistant. If you remember, Ramsey's confidence is still lacking after last years beating he took. I think Gibbs is just waiting for the line to develop more. If he puts Ramsey in and the O line performs like it did last season, then Ramsey will lose all the confidence he has regained and will NOT be the QB of the future. And the 3rd reason why Gibbs is sticking with Brunell is that he must see something that we don't. We aren't in the Practices with them and don't see what is going on. Gibbs has the shown the ability to win with all types of QBs (Theismann, Williams, Jay and so on..just throwing names of old out there..LOL).

So for now, I am going to take back all my previous posts saying that Ramsey should start. I think Gibbs has a game plan and knows what he is doing. Remember that Gibbs is not just thinking of this season, he is also looking to the future of the team.I am going to stand behind Gibbs and his decisions (even if I don't agree with them). But I am going to say that Brunell definitely needs to step up as the leader of this Offense and earn his multimillion dollar contract.

All in all, I am going to trust what Gibbs says and put my beliefs in him. He has done it for us before and he will again. I admire the fact that he is sticking by his decisions and if they turn out to be right, then we all will be wishing we had his hindsight.

Granted Brunell has not had the greatest season (I'm being nice). But he did play smarter in the last game than he did all season. That too me is an improvement. I'm not the greatest in rallying troops but I think we should all support Gibbs (regardless whether we think they are wrong or not) So lets try and point out the good things that Brunell has done instead of always looking at his bad.

Go Gibbs and Brunell and SKINS!!!

Gibbs definitely has a plan and is sticking to it, whether or not his plan works is yet to be seen. I'm really hoping Brunell can prove us all wrong.

Hey Matty...I agree..I hope Brunell proves us all wrong. I hope he steps up and leads this team throughout the remainder of the season. And if he does, I will be the first one to admit I was wrong. I just hope he doesn't wait until the last game of the season. And I doubt he will because I think Gibbs will eventually bench him if he doesn't start performing soon.

the only problem i have is that i've watched him fail miserably and repeatedly... if he can pull it out, that'd be great, cause i don't think gibbs is going to pull the trigger any time soon... but i have no confidence in MB right... its just slowly been drained away :(

Dragontat, I think your argument is well thought out and explained. I do disagree with the point you make about how "Once this happened then everyone would start doubting his other decisions."

Remember, during his first go-around, they were 0-5 before he conceded his pass-first scheme wasn't working and began going to a ground game.

One of the things about Gibbs that makes him great, is his ability to adjust to do what is necessary to win.

He is very loyal to his players, but no one is above the game.

Since I am one of four people who had the unmitigated ordacity to vote Brunell to remain as QB, I felt compelled to mention that I am not a fan of Brunell. I am a fan of the Washington Redskins with Joe Gibbs as Head Coach. I respect the decisions of a man who I believe wants to see this team win more than increase his legendary status. He was tired of watching Redskins getting their ass's kicked for the last 12 seasons and felt compelled to make a change. Gibb's is not going to change direction with Ramsey. Gibbs is directing the change with Brunell. Even if a veteran QB with demininshed skills, Gibbs can win.

Dragon, I am glad you are being supportive, and came up with a rationale for this, but I disagree that ANY level of QB controversy would result from taking Brunell out after the=is horrible start. EVERYONE of the "experts" is saying he needs to make a change, as are almost all of the fans. The controversy could develop from his NOT making the change. But bottom line, I will support him and the team regardless of his decision.

It may simply mean he does not feel he has anyone any better to switch to...

If I had to guess why Gibbs is sticking with Brunell here are some of my guesses in no particular order

--He's trying to establish some continuity and stability at the position, we've played musical chairs at the QB position for 12 years now and look where it got us. What if we go to Ramsey and he's worse, then do you go back to Brunell again after a few weeks? It doesn't really send a message of stability to the team, perhaps he's trying to help put an end to all the constant change. Changing QB's can divide a team, we've seen it many times and not just with the Skins.

--Maybe Brunell is hurting a bit more than we know and that's contributing to him throwing off balance and not setting properly? Gibbs mentioned something about having Brunell back healthy after the bye, that kinda led me to believe Brunell may be hurting a bit more than he's let on. Again, just a thought.

--Part of Gibbs success is attributable to his all-out committment to his players, that's also been part of his downfall at times. He'll let guys play out of slumps.

--Let's not forget Gibbs sees these players up close and personal, it's easy for us to sit here and second guess every move and decision he makes, but the fact is we're not there for every meeting and practice and we really can't judge the true pulse of the team. I laugh when someone questions Brunell's leadership. Unless you're in the huddle how do you know what kind of leader Brunell really is??

I'm not supporting Brunell at this point and I'd like to see a change, but I can understand why Gibbs is sticking it out with Brunell, and I really don't think it comes down to his contract or Gibbs trying to prove people wrong, that's just silly, Gibbs is back to win games not to be on an ego trip. I'll respect the decision and root like crazy for Brunell.

I really hope by year's end we can look back and say damn, Gibbs was right, Brunell is a nice fit for this offense, I'm glad he stuck by him.

I disagree completly, I think it way to ovious we need to make a change. With the way to offense is playing right now, we might win one more game the whole year. Brunnel has had 6 weeks and he has shown we no longer has it. I was watching the vikings game last night, and i saw for myself how much a deep vertical passing game would just open up our whole offense. We need to go with the future and that is with Ramsay. He's had a whole offseason, preseason and 6 weeks now in teh offense. I think he's ready to go.

I'm just trying to offer up some possible reasons why Gibbs is standing by Brunell, simple as that. I'm not saying I agree, I'm just offering up the other side of the coin.

The 'Brunell sucks, Ramsey must start' discussions are getting a little tired IMO.

It's obvious Brunell has struggled, and it's also obvious that Ramsey has struggled in this system as well. For that reason alone I don't think benching Brunell is a cut and dry decision.

Im trying my hardest to put all of my faith in Gibbs, but doesnt this remind anyone else of the Ravens in 00? The most encouraging part of this team is that we have defense and a running game, and thus we could easily gain some momentum and go on a winning streak. But how much worse could Ramsey do? Sometimes a QB change will energize the offense and spark something, I think more so then any changes they could make with Brunell still in there. And thats a great point hogskin, there is going to be a QB controversy if we dont make a change, the media is going to start asking the players and so on...
Hopefully they can figure all this out over the bye week

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]If I had to guess why Gibbs is sticking with Brunell here are some of my guesses in no particular order

--He's trying to establish some continuity and stability at the position, we've played musical chairs at the QB position for 12 years now and look where it got us. What if we go to Ramsey and he's worse, then do you go back to Brunell again after a few weeks? It doesn't really send a message of stability to the team, perhaps he's trying to help put an end to all the constant change. Changing QB's can divide a team, we've seen it many times and not just with the Skins.

--Maybe Brunell is hurting a bit more than we know and that's contributing to him throwing off balance and not setting properly? Gibbs mentioned something about having Brunell back healthy after the bye, that kinda led me to believe Brunell may be hurting a bit more than he's let on. Again, just a thought.

--Part of Gibbs success is attributable to his all-out committment to his players, that's also been part of his downfall at times. He'll let guys play out of slumps.

--Let's not forget Gibbs sees these players up close and personal, it's easy for us to sit here and second guess every move and decision he makes, but the fact is we're not there for every meeting and practice and we really can't judge the true pulse of the team. I laugh when someone questions Brunell's leadership. Unless you're in the huddle how do you know what kind of leader Brunell really is??

I'm not supporting Brunell at this point and I'd like to see a change, but I can understand why Gibbs is sticking it out with Brunell, and I really don't think it comes down to his contract or Gibbs trying to prove people wrong, that's just silly, Gibbs is back to win games not to be on an ego trip. I'll respect the decision and root like crazy for Brunell.

I really hope by year's end we can look back and say damn, Gibbs was right, Brunell is a nice fit for this offense, I'm glad he stuck by him.[/QUOTE]


Excellent post Matty, about time we had some rational thoughts on the QB position. I'm still on Brunells side, 6 games is way too early to be making drastic changes. I've said it before but it's worth repeating, as long as Joe Gibbs is happy with Brunell as starter so am I.

Looks like dragon beat me to the punch and hit on some of the same basic points with his opening post, nice post dragon and welcome to the board!

Brunnel missed two long throws that would've gone for TD's yesterday. If we were playing one of the better teams in the league those missed opportunities would've cost us the game. I mean we just can't expect the defense to win every game for us (3pts allowed awesome) but it was the anemic bears. Take a look at our schedule and draw your own conclusion. If we could hold any of those teams to 3pts it would be a longshot. I'm just tired & I know a lot of other fans are tired of having to bite our nails at the end of every game, because either we have a crucial turnover or we give up a big play on special teams. Yesterday's game should've been over by th 3rd Quarter. Instead we had to watch in agony as our offense faded (Portis not included) and the bears with a QB that's probably not going to be playing in hawaii, drive & have a chance to tie (or maybe win) in the 4th quarter. The only defense I have for Brunnell is that he can scramble, but correct me if i'm wrong when was the last time he won a game for us because of his wheels? Bottomline is with Brunnel in there we have no chance in hell to beat the playoff caliber teams unless Portis goes for 300yds or our defense scores 3TD's (not likely) With Ramsey in there ???????????? Guess we'll just have to wait & see.


:twocents:

Put Ramsey in blah blah blah He would hit the long ball blah blah blah Gibbs is just sticking with his 8 million dollar man blah blah blah look at other quarterbacks stats this week in other games - Pennington passed for twenty more yards blah blah blah im so angry blah blah blah just put Ramsey in.....

I hate to come off so negetively, but I think our defense is selling out and IMO defenses like this could go a long way in the postseason. We just need consistancy on the part of the offense. I hope i'm wrong because if Brunnel could get it back and we could get in as a wild card, anything could happen.

Timing, chemistry, and consistency. THese are all things the skins have lacked on o over the last few years. Pulling the QB after 6 games isn't going to help with that. And, as has been pointed out, Gibbs always sticks with his QBs when the rest of the known univerese is ready to dump them (see Theisman, pre-leg injury, and Rypien at various times). So we're gonna see Brunnell for a while.

As for Ramsey, I really hope the kid is learning, so when he does get his shot, he kicks ass and ends this farce.

But, to repeat my mantra this year, Gibbs has won 3 superbowls with 3 QBs. So he knows just a bit about QBs and how to get the most out of them. I'll take his word, for now. But, man, if the passing game stays like this, it's gonna get ugly.

For all of you who are willing to give Gibbs/Brunell a chance, here's my thoughts: Starting with the 5 preseason games and going through 6 regular season games, Brunell simply hasn't gotten the job done. That's 11 games, for God's sake, nearly 3/4 of a season.

How much more time should we give him before making a change? Should Gibbs wait until the season's a complete washout or should he try and do something, anything, to fire up this offense? Me, I vote strongly for the latter.

I love Gibbs just as much as anybody, but he's turning a blind eye to what is obvious to everyone else. I think some of it has to do with his traditional committment to his players. But, in all honesty, I also think a lot of it is due to the fact that he, personally, pursued and got Brunell, to the tune of millions of bucks. And, he just can't admit that it was a mistake.

I wouldn't feel so strongly about replacing Brunell, if I saw even the slightest glimmer of improvement from week to week. But, if anything, things look worse now than they did weeks ago.

Hey Joe - Wake up and smell the coffee before we having no season left to salvage!

it'd be a lot easier if ramsey were a bit better... i don't think brunell can be much worse...

We'll never know if Ramsey can be the answer, unless he's given a chance. If he's not, then we've got a major problem at the most important position on the team.

But, at this point, after 11 games pre and regular season, I think a change is long overdue.

If Ramsey can't hack it, try Hassellback or else admit the season is a wash and make a major effort to get a top-flight QB next year. But don't simply stick with someone who isn't producing out of some misplaced sense of loyalty.

Where is Gibbs' loyalty to us fans who have to sit and watch this terrible play from a veteran QB week after week? Where is his loyalty to the rest of the team, particularly the D, that plays its heart out only to see it all for naught because Brunell is performing so poorly?

Everyone has made some valid points. I read that some of you posted that Brunell hasn't shown a "gllimmer of improvement" well, I beg to differ. I seem to remember a game where there were 7 turnovers and 4 of them he was involved in. Last week he got sacked and fumbled a ball that resulted in a TD. Yesterdays game, yes he threw an interception that resulted in a TD but I will go on record saying it was NOT his fault. It was due to a O line that broke down consistantly on pass protection. Even though they were 4 man rushes, he was still getting constantly pressured and the key was HE didn't make a mistake. So that is your improvement. IMO Brunell is playing extremely timid and without confidence but hopefully that will change after this weeks win. Unfortunately his stats have suffered because of his lack of confidence but he didn't make any "unforced errors" or mistakes throughout yesterdays game. Yes he missed a wide open Coles..but he isn't perfect and as they say..hitting a wide open receiver is sometimes the hardest. Also don't forget that at the end of the game, they still had 3 timeouts remaining. Hmm..that seems to have been a huge improvement over the last 3 games.

All in all, I have seen some improvement with Brunell. Either way he has 2 weeks in order to heal and get his confidence back before he suits up against Green Bay. If he hasn't shown significant improvement by the end of the Green Bay game then I say do what needs to be done..but changing QB's now when you have Philly in just 3 short weeks would be a drastic mistake. I know our defense is good..but Philly's O is awesome. We will definitely need to score more than 13 or 16 points against Philly to win.

Once again I have typed a long winded post..LOL..enjoy

Go Skins!!!

"Starting with the 5 preseason games and going through 6 regular season games, Brunell simply hasn't gotten the job done. That's 11 games, for God's sake, nearly 3/4 of a season."

Nah, you can't really count the preseason because Brunell didn't play five full games in the preseason. Brunell does need to become more consistant and I, too, am wondering if Brunell is hurting more than what he lets on. This COULD be reason, although we have to remember he threw a couple big passes in the Dallas game. Now, yesterday, certainly I saw some bad passes from MB, but he started out pretty decent with the short passes, or the 10 to 12 yard passes. Heck, if all he can complete are 10 yard passes, at least we get 10 yards and a fresh set of downs! I believe what will also free up the passing game is for Portis to continue to have the type of game he had yesterday. If Portis continues to be consistant, then its going to open up play action down the field and defenses are going to have to respect the run much more. Portis hadn't really contributed much since the first game up until yesterday...so this can also contribute to the performance in the passing game...since defenses didn't have to respect the run as much...freeing them up to go for Brunell. I also feel that a constant change at QB does nothing to improve matters. Once Ramsey does finally get into the game (and he will just be patient), by Gibbs sticking with MB, this will give Ramsey confidence in knowing he's not going to get yanked after one or two bad performances.

[quote]Yesterdays game, yes he threw an interception that resulted in a TD but I will go on record saying it was NOT his fault. It was due to a O line that broke down consistantly on pass protection.[/quote]

i watched the replay, he should have seen that guy... the guys hand was up BEFORE he tossed a ball right into his arm :(

skinsguy, the problem i see with the 10-12 yard passes is that they still allow Ds to stack the line (2 WRs go out, leaving 8-9 guys free)... if brunell could play like gannon and toss out 10 yard passes constantly and consistantly i wouldn't care... but a 35% completion percentage and an affinity for 4 yard passes is killing me (although this game he was at least throwing 10 yarders instead... that was nice, but most of them still missed :()

skinsguy...your post is exactly what I have said in several posts except for the part about being 11 games. But I am going to sum it up in this one is a quick manner...(I hope...LOL)

1. Portis's Preseason is finally over. He only played one series in all the preseason games except for the hall of fame game.

2. Now that the running game is working better, the offense should open up a bit.

3. Brunell has not played in 11 games. Don't forget Hasselback actually played more than Ramsey and Brunell in all the 5 Preseason games. Brunell is under a complete NEW Offensive System that is under a NEW coaching staff with a NEW RB and other New Players..anyone notice how many times I said NEW.

4. Brunell is playing without confidence because of his past performances and mistakes. Give him a chance to adapt to the NEW system. I know he has made poor throws. I think part of it is his timidness and the fact he is also playing somewhat hurt. I do remember him getting hurt in a game earlier this season and Ramsey had to come in and finish. (so that actually takes more than half a game away..making his total about 6.5 games this whole season under a new system. And that's including the Preseason.)

5. And remember this most importantly. I am NOT a Brunell fan..but I do think he has improved over the course of the season and CJG (Coach Joe Gibbs since I was hounded for saying JG earlier and I wasn't giving him the proper respect he deserves) must see something in Brunell, that we as fans don't see.

My faith lies with Coach Gibbs decisions and I know he is doing what is best for the team.

Also, thanks to everyone who has welcomed me to the boards and I look forward to discussing the Skins with each and every one of you.

GO SKINS!!!

I am wondering if this hamstring injury is actually keeping him from being able to get his feet set properly when throwing. We all know how Ramsey was affected by the foot injury last year, so maybe Brunell's "lack of arm strength" is more from an inability to properly plant his feet and wing it. Which leg is it? I don't really know a lot about these things so it is just a guess, and I'd appreciate any input from anyone more knowledgeable in these areas.

Skinsrock- I would say that a hamstring injury is definitely going to hurt a QB when throwing. Especially when it is the long ball. Which leg it is doesn't really matter, since both legs help the QB get into the position to be able to plant and then throw. However, the long ball will definitely be affected by his back leg and the front leg is going to affect his accuracy.

The back leg gives the drive needed to throw the ball long.

The front leg allows followthrough which is where your accuracy comes from.

i think it was a hamstring... more than once... if you throw with your arm and not your body, you lose a lot of power (and consequently, speed) which affects accuracy too... brunell goes from somewhat average to horrible when throwing on the run/ not planted (most of the time)...

he may also be throwing out his arm trying to make up for his lack of lower body strength going into his throws... i don't know... it needs to be fixed or he needs to be yanked though.

I think you could be right SkinsRock. But then what I want to know is how bad does he think Ramsey is if he's letting Brunell keep on playing instead of getting healthy. Or is Ramsey also hurt?

Maybe the Skins don't want to draft a QB (not that many that are really impressive this year and I don't want to hear about the guy from Purdue). Maybe Joe wants to shoulder the pressure rather than heaping onto a young, already beaten QB. Maybe he's waiting for the offense to start clicking, the line to be solid both rushing and passing, receivers to get their reads down etc.. before putting Ramsey in there so he is totally set up for success. Maybe!! But I just hope we don't have a losing season or squander this defense to get there.

Everyone keeps on saying, give Brunell more time, wait for him to get comfortable in this offense, patience, patience.

What if that never happens? What if what we're seeing is as good as it will get?

When do we finally reach the point that enough is enough?

Is it after 3 or 4 more losses and the season is a wash?

Or do we bite the bullet now and commit to letting Ramsey start the rest of the games?

I'm not advocating a constant QB shuffle. I'm suggesting Gibbs make a permanent change to turn things around, NOW, when there is still something left to salvage of this season.

And a final note, I was very disappointed to hear Gibbs point the finger at the O-line and at receivers not running proper routes. I heard absolutely zero blame placed on Brunell by Gibbs. Gibbs is either in denial or being very hard-headed here. What good does it do to finger other parts of the offense? Hasn't Gibbbs always been a coach who preaches that a team lives and dies together? Funny that his criticism doesn't extend to Brunell.

I have a feeling that Brunell is more hurt than he or the coaches are letting on. If you watch him throw he doesn't seem to set properly and follow through on his delivery. For a veteran like him to be displaying such poor mechanics it tells me something is wrong.

Plus with the remark Gibbs made after the game about having Brunell back healthy after the bye it tells me he's defininitely playing hurt and it's having an effect on his arm strength and accuracy.

I agree Mattyk, when he left because of injury last year he lost his job so he may fear the same in washington. I feel that if this is so that his actions are detrimental to the team and I wouldn't want him leading our franchise anymore. Ramsey is a grown man i hope Gibbs is not babying him like was stated at the begining of this post. if he can't take the heat when he's put in there... then throw he sensitive ass out the kitchen and draft someone better. The qb position no matter who it is, is letting the others down especially the defense. Brunnell needs to put his igo aside and step down, so we can get somewhere this year, while we still have a chance.

if he could play like those last 5 minutes in dallas all the time, i'd be his biggest fan, but 35% and under 100 yards is really just giving me headaches... hopefully he'll get better since i'm obviously not getting my wish for the time being... you'd think if he's hurt THAT bad, they'd put someone in till he could actually play even marginally again...

Lady T:

You pose an interesting rhetorical question that leads to the conclusion that Ranmsey should start.

But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer. What is his record in games he started? Is it a playoff record? The short answer is, NO!! In that hypothetical situation, what good does the change do for this season? If you want to see it go down the drain, put in the Patrick Ramsey that we have seen in the past and the team will be headed to about 5 or 6 wins a year for quite a while. Or are you postive that he will morph immediately into a reincarnated John Unitas as soon as he is named the starter? I'm not.

In the preseason, Ramsey looked awful. So did Brunell, but Brunell has one thing in his background that Ramsey does NOT have. Brunell has had a LOT of success in the NFL winning football games. He's led a team - an expansion team one year removed no less - to a conference championship game. Ramsey has not done anything even remotely comparable. Standing in the pocket and getting clobbered by opposing defensive linemen shows he tough but not that he is a winner - - and that is about the most positive thing in his favor to date.

Ramsey has yet to show that he can lead a team to a winning season - let alone the playoffs. That is a fact; that is unarguable. He MIGHT be a lot better than Brunell sometime in the future, but until he shows - in practice or in the next preseason or in this year if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs - that he is better than Brunell NOW, he is going to collect butt splinters on the bench. And that is as it ought to be. And he MIGHT be a lot worse in the present and the future than Mark Brunell has ever been or ever will be. Just saying over and over again that he is great and has such potential does not win games; it just repeats the same phrases over and over and over...

Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell.

BTW, if Tim Hasselbeck happened to convince Coach Gibbs that he was better than both Ramsey and Brunell, he'd be the starter too...

Damn SC I couldn't agree more, nice post

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Lady T:

You pose an interesting rhetorical question that leads to the conclusion that Ranmsey should start.

But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer. What is his record in games he started? Is it a playoff record? The short answer is, NO!! In that hypothetical situation, what good does the change do for this season? If you want to see it go down the drain, put in the Patrick Ramsey that we have seen in the past and the team will be headed to about 5 or 6 wins a year for quite a while. Or are you postive that he will morph immediately into a reincarnated John Unitas as soon as he is named the starter? I'm not.

In the preseason, Ramsey looked awful. So did Brunell, but Brunell has one thing in his background that Ramsey does NOT have. Brunell has had a LOT of success in the NFL winning football games. He's led a team - an expansion team one year removed no less - to a conference championship game. Ramsey has not done anything even remotely comparable. Standing in the pocket and getting clobbered by opposing defensive linemen shows he tough but not that he is a winner - - and that is about the most positive thing in his favor to date.

Ramsey has yet to show that he can lead a team to a winning season - let alone the playoffs. That is a fact; that is unarguable. He MIGHT be a lot better than Brunell sometime in the future, but until he shows - in practice or in the next preseason or in this year if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs - that he is better than Brunell NOW, he is going to collect butt splinters on the bench. And that is as it ought to be. And he MIGHT be a lot worse in the present and the future than Mark Brunell has ever been or ever will be. Just saying over and over again that he is great and has such potential does not win games; it just repeats the same phrases over and over and over...

Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell.

BTW, if Tim Hasselbeck happened to convince Coach Gibbs that he was better than both Ramsey and Brunell, he'd be the starter too...[/QUOTE]


Let the Church say Amen! Finally a voice of reason.

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]I agree Mattyk, when he left because of injury last year he lost his job so he may fear the same in washington. I feel that if this is so that his actions are detrimental to the team and I wouldn't want him leading our franchise anymore. Ramsey is a grown man i hope Gibbs is not babying him like was stated at the begining of this post. if he can't take the heat when he's put in there... then throw he sensitive ass out the kitchen and draft someone better. The qb position no matter who it is, is letting the others down especially the defense. Brunnell needs to put his igo aside and step down, so we can get somewhere this year, while we still have a chance.[/QUOTE]

Come on, when have you ever heard of a player stepping down to give another person a chance. You or I wouldn't do that on our job so why even suggest that for someone else?

[QUOTE=4TH RING]I hate to come off so negetively, but I think our defense is selling out and IMO defenses like this could go a long way in the postseason. We just need consistancy on the part of the offense. I hope i'm wrong because if Brunnel could get it back and we could get in as a wild card, anything could happen.[/QUOTE]

If the playoffs were right now, we would be looking at the Rams, Eagles, Giants, Seahawks, Vikings and Falcons. We all know the reputation of the Vikings during the midseason to fall off. I believe they were 7-0 last year and didn't make the playoffs. We will have to go on a winning streak after the bye and split with Philly, Giants and Cowboys to better our chances. We definitely can do it with Lavar and Mike Barrow back.

unless there's a miracle in the passing game, we won't be getting within 3 TDs of the iggles, let alone splitting games... here's hoping, but 2-4 and in 4th place in our division is a harsh place to suggest playoff aspirations from...

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer....[/QUOTE]I would suppose that outlook would be rather short-sighted, wouldn't you? Which makes more sense: to assume that a 25 year-old has realized his full potential, or that an accomplished 34 year-old veteran has given the best he has to offer?

Let me ask you this: how old was Mark Brunell when he began his ascent to the realm of "accomplished" quarterbacks? The year was 1995, Mark Brunell was in his third season as a pro, in his first season in Jacksonville, and he was the tender young age of-- you guessed it!-- 25 years old. In his two seasons prior to taking the reigns of the Jacksonville offense, he had played in exactly two games, completed 12 of 27 passes for 97 yards, and posted a 53.8 QB rating. He went from that, to completing 58 percent of his passes, throwing 15 touchdowns to 7 interceptions, and posting an 82.6 quarterback rating in his third season.

Now, suppose the folks in charge had judged him based on his limited and unimpressive experience, rather than choosing to explore his vast potential.


[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell.[/QUOTE]First of all, Brunell IS HURT. Secondly, Brunell has lost more games than he has won as a Redskin, and those losses are due in no small part to Brunell's inability to throw the ball with accuracy and velocity-- ostensibly because [i]he's injured[/i]. If that's the case, then the healthy second-string guy (whether that's Ramsey or Hasselbeck or [i]YoYo Ma[/i]) should be playing shouldn't he?

I have a hard time believing Mark Brunell looked splendid in practice all these weeks, and then suddenly became incompetent at kickoff. I also have a hard time believing that Coach Gibbs has seen enough of [i]either[/i] of his backup quarterbacks in practice the past few weeks to make any determination as to whether they would be a better option than an injured Brunell. According to most reports I've read-- and based on the reality of regular season practice rep distribution-- Brunell has been taking the vast majority of the snaps since the latter portion of Dallas week.

As for Herm Edwards' oft-referenced quote regarding winning games and winning them now... well, I do believe that's the whole reason this debate began isn't it? Folks would be fine with Brunell if his performance produced 4 wins in six games instead of 4 losses, and he were able to put away a Bears team that ranked near the bottom of the league in pass defense, instead of staggering to a 13-10 wimper of a win over another one-win team. The bottom line is, if Brunell were winning more games than he were losing, this debate wouldn't be happening.