Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Well, first off I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving weekend with family and friends and took some time to really think about the things that matter in life.

Well, anyhow this is a Redskins board so let's talk Redskins. Overall, I was relatively pleased with the team's performance. The young guys are stepping up finally and playing with a purpose. And I might just be becoming a Ganther Gangsta. He's not a feature back but I love what he's brought to the table. And it's great to see some explosiveness on the kick returns with Devin Thomas back there.

Ok, let's get to it. Time to lay the smack down

[B]Jason Campbell[/B] Overall I thought he was pretty good actually. And I like that he doesn't seem to be playing as scared anymore. Before he played like he didn't trust his offensive line so he felt like he couldn't do anything. Now he's playing like he doesn't necessarily trust the line any more than before but he's staying in the pocket an extra second longer and creating plays. I wish he had been more aggressive sooner...or that the staff allowed him to be. I think this has a lot to do with Sherman Lewis and Chris Meidt taking a more active role in the offensive game planning for passing. All that said though, he threw two very bad interceptions that ultimately cost us the game (along with other things of course). I'll take interceptions, those happen. But these were bad decisions on crucial downs. You don't telegraph passes in Asante Samuel's direction. You just don't.

[B]Post-Tryon Interception Play-Calling[/B] That could have been a critical turning point in the game...and unfortunately it was. As I understand it, that was pretty much all on Zorn. Being aggressive and going for a touchdown could have put the game away but this isn't a team that plays to win when it count it seems.

[B]Levi Jones[/B] Flat out abused today, but I can't hate too much. He's still rusty after not even having been on a roster for the first half of the season. I'd still look to bring him back next year. I think he can provide good depth. I know he wants to be a starter but teams aren't kicking his door down trying to sign him as a starter. Thought Edwin Williams was decent by the way.

[B]Anti-Haynesworth/Hall Sentiment[/B] We're a better defense with them in there. Especially Haynesworth. Our run defense is so porous without him in there. Did I miss this somehow last year? Because I thought we were fine last year with Golston and Griffin starting. By the way, anyone else noticing how Fletcher's stats are through the roof once again with Haynesworth out? Hall out is a positive in the sense that it's giving Barnes and Tryon more playing time and we'll need that from them moving forward.

This is one of those games where a loss was almost better than a win, which I hate to say because no matter the circumstance I never root for the Redskins to lose. Still, our younger guys got some playing time and valuable experience against a division opponent. That's a positive we can take away from this game.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

I'm liking Fred Davis more and more. He's going to be good compliment to Cooley next year.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

I think we need to stop acting like Levi Jones is Chris Samuels. He's not. I know watching Stephon Heyer can really warp the reality of things, but you can't leave him one on one with Trent Cole. On the hail mary, that was absolutely inexcusable.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

The biggest difference between the offense of the first six games and of the next five has been the 2008 draft class. While they haven't exactly been very good as a whole, they've developed into something you can put on the field without looking like your offense is completely lost. Considering where they came from, that makes a major difference.

Also, it takes away some of the more favored targets of the WaPo columnists.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Yeah, the positives of all the injuries is that we're building depth through experience. Guys who would never see the field are getting playing time. The negative there is that several of those guys are getting schooled.

In the end the defense gave up too many points. One of JC's picks was bad, but the one where Asante jumped the route was a phenomenal defensive play. Maybe JC shouldn't have thrown that ball, but only a handful of cornerbacks in the league can make that play.

The bottom line is, by our defense's standards, the offense definitely scored enough points to win this game. Turnovers, O-line penalties/bad pass blocking, and a porous D cost us this game.

I though Landry played pretty well today from what I saw. That was good to see. He's still my least favorite player in B&G right now.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=GMScud;632019]Yeah, the positives of all the injuries is that we're building depth through experience. Guys who would never see the field are getting playing time. The negative there is that several of those guys are getting schooled.

In the end the defense gave up too many points. One of JC's picks was bad, but the one where Asante jumped the route was a phenomenal defensive play. Maybe JC shouldn't have thrown that ball, but only a handful of cornerbacks in the league can make that play.

The bottom line is, by our defense's standards, the offense definitely scored enough points to win this game. Turnovers, O-line penalties/bad pass blocking, and a porous D cost us this game.

I though Landry played pretty well today from what I saw. That was good to see. He's still my least favorite player in B&G right now.[/quote]
Well maybe I am just an idiot that knows no football, but I saw Landry out of position on at least three plays, one resulting in a touchdown. We got lucky the other two times.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632007]
[B]Post-Tryon Interception Play-Calling[/B] That could have been a critical turning point in the game...and unfortunately it was. As I understand it, that was pretty much all on Zorn.[B][U][U] Being aggressive and going for a touchdown could have put the game away but this isn't a team that plays to win when it count it seems.[/U][/U][/B][/quote]

thats what i don't get, 3-7, who gives a shit might as well play like your record stats, nothing to lose.

it's not like this season could get any worse unless snyder fires zorn and gives vinny a headset. i don't get why we don't play balls to the wall what are we holding back for, a top 5 pick?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Speaking of Tryon, he is the bright spot of the year for us. He was well maligned we he was having problems, but since he has been the slot back, we have seen his name called very few times.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Pretty much shares in my sentiments, agreed in full. Agree that Jason stuck around to make his reads better than usual, but I'd like to see him buy himself some more time instead of just getting the ball out at the last possible moment. Didn't that first long pass to Thomas come after Jason scrambled away from the closing pocket? A lot of QBs can make a single guy miss (Romo is good at this) and I'd like to see Campbell do that more than just accept that he's going to get hit. He did it in convincing style breaking through on that one play it looked certain that he was going down.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Does anybody really feel like we should seriously consider not trading or letting JC go after this season? Because I'm busting out and saying it, I think we shouldn't do anything with JC after the season and we should let the new coach/GM decide whether to keep him or not. Because he's been making more plays and playing like a good quarterback this season ever since he got a little o-line stability in front of him. I really think he's progressed this season despite the o-line hurting badly. He started off slow and yes obviously his two picks today hurt us, but he still makes a lot of positive plays and ever since the second half of the Atlanta game he's been looking pretty good.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

The coaches playcalling is killing me. when they get the lead it seems like they handcuff the offense to try to conserve the win. That doesn't work. Just because you have a top 10 defense doesn't your justified in always putting them in bad positions. I really hope Snyder cleans house as far as the coaching staff goes.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

I think it should be up to whoever is in charge this off-season. But, and I know this may not actually happen in an uncapped year, but I'd like to see us making a firm decision one way or the other. Either cut bait and move on or commit to him long-term. I mean how much longer do you need to make a decision

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

We had a 4th quarter lead with the game on the line, and once again the D let us down. Allowed a 10 play, 90 yard drive that allowed Philly to tie the game, then allowed a another scoring drive for the game winning field goal.

The blame obviously doesn't rest solely on them, but they weren't very good today.

Even though they allowed the game winning drive in the 4th quarter last week, they played lights out for about 57 minutes in that game. Today was different.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=GMScud;632059][B]We had a 4th quarter lead with the game on the line, and once again the D let us down. Allowed a 10 play, 90 yard drive that allowed Philly to tie the game, then allowed a another scoring drive for the game winning field goal.[/B]

The blame obviously doesn't rest solely on them, but they weren't very good today.

Even though they allowed the game winning drive in the 4th quarter last week, they played lights out for about 57 minutes in that game. Today was different.[/quote]

i say not scoring a td and settling for a fg is probably the cause for our loss, which goes back to coaching and play calling. which i think is where the blame lies yet again

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

I disagree with that assessment of the defense. If anything I think that the defense has kept us in games. They are top 5 in keeping teams out of the endzone. You can't honestly think they are going to shut out every NFL team, every time especially with the way the rules are set up to help offenses

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=mlmdub130;632029]thats what i don't get, 3-7, who gives a shit might as well play like your record stats, nothing to lose.

[B]it's not like this season could get any worse unless snyder fires zorn and gives vinny a headset.[/B] i don't get why we don't play balls to the wall what are we holding back for, a top 5 pick?[/quote]

Ok don't give the tiny man in the owner's box any ideas...file them under "The things we think about but do not say" :)

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;632065]I disagree with that assessment of the defense. If anything I think that the defense has kept us in games. They are top 5 in keeping teams out of the endzone. You can't honestly think they are going to shut out every NFL team, every time especially with the way the rules are set up to help offenses[/quote]
And especially when you have the weapons that Philly does; on top of them getting 2 INTs

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

I know its on a bunch of people...but smack down on our 2 mintue offense at the end of games... I was on the AIM with Dasel and said "I'll be you my life this drive goes no more than four plays"... I mean when is the last time we have driven down to tie or win a game? I dont even put this on Campbell, because I honest to god can't remember the last time anyone in the orginazation did... I mean its just crazy... really not a whole lot of smack, but I just had to say that.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=mooby;632051][B]Does anybody really feel like we should seriously consider not trading or letting JC go after this season? Because I'm busting out and saying it, I think we shouldn't do anything with JC after the season and we should let the new coach/GM decide whether to keep him or not.[/B] Because he's been making more plays and playing like a good quarterback this season ever since he got a little o-line stability in front of him. I really think he's progressed this season despite the o-line hurting badly. He started off slow and yes obviously his two picks today hurt us, but he still makes a lot of positive plays and ever since the second half of the Atlanta game he's been looking pretty good.[/quote]

I mean that's what a good franchise would do: let the legitimate decision-makers decide, as in a real GM and whoever the coach is next year. I still don't see any reason to believe that's how things will go...Snyder will still be the final say on everything. That said I think JC probably gets dumped or pushed to the backup (Collins gone for sure).

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;632065]I disagree with that assessment of the defense. If anything I think that the defense has kept us in games. They are top 5 in keeping teams out of the endzone. You can't honestly think they are going to shut out every NFL team, every time especially with the way the rules are set up to help offenses[/quote]We'll they've kept us in almost half our games now. They didn't give up any big plays against Dallas, Carolina, or Kansas City, and those losses are certainly not on the defense. But we won the Denver game largely in-spite of a bunch of defensive breakdowns.

Anecdotally, our defense "deserves" to have about 5 wins in 11 games. I'm defining this arbitrary designation by crediting them for wins where they gave up 1) no TD drives of 80 yards or longer, 2) no TD plays of 30 yards or longer, and 3) either (at least) one turnover or three sacks.

So, based only on the quality of the defense, we should be better than our record says we are, but still not a playoff team.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=Gmanc711;632071]I know its on a bunch of people...but smack down on our 2 mintue offense at the end of games... I was on the AIM with Dasel and said "I'll be you my life this drive goes no more than four plays"... I mean when is the last time we have driven down to tie or win a game? I dont even put this on Campbell, because I honest to god can't remember the last time anyone in the orginazation did... I mean its just crazy... really not a whole lot of smack, but I just had to say that.[/quote]

Good smack. We get inside the twenty and we change jerseys or something. It's like you it's coming, but you hope you're wrong.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632007] And I might just be becoming a Ganther Gangsta. He's not a feature back but I love what he's brought to the table. [/quote]

I agree. He does several things including running hard, with a purpose. I hope he stays with us.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

We had a chance to really take control of the game but Zorn showed no balls by playing for the 3 instead of taking a shot at the endzone. When you're 3-7 where's the "nothing to lose" mentality? I really didn't understand that thinking at all. That's the kind of thing I look at and say, Shanahan would have gone for the throat there no doubt. Zorn is just too soft.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;632202]We had a chance to really take control of the game but Zorn showed no balls by playing for the 3 instead of taking a shot at the endzone. When you're 3-7 where's the "nothing to lose" mentality? I really didn't understand that thinking at all. That's the kind of thing I look at and say, Shanahan would have gone for the throat there no doubt. Zorn is just too soft.[/quote]Zorn has always coached as if he has an elite defense, which has cost him more than a game over the years.

For some defenses, you can go up 8 and kick to them, knowing that even if they miraculously get into the end zone, you still have a good chance to keep them out on the conversion. But with a majority of NFL defenses, the offense needs to put the game away when it has the chance. More and more these days, coaches that leave it to their defenses are getting burned.

It's also the reason our PPG figures are so consistently low: Zorn always plays the clock in that situation rather than the score. It's not right or wrong, in nature, but it drives me crazy.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;632202]We had a chance to really take control of the game but Zorn showed no balls by playing for the 3 instead of taking a shot at the endzone. When you're 3-7 where's the "nothing to lose" mentality? I really didn't understand that thinking at all. That's the kind of thing I look at and say, Shanahan would have gone for the throat there no doubt. Zorn is just too soft.[/quote]

I completely agree with you on this point. I came away from the game with the feeling that Zorn really let his players down by not trusting them enough to go for it at that point. Had we scored a touchdown there, I think we probably would have won the game.

I find it interesting that it was Vinny's intent to replace Zorn as the play-caller, yet Zorn took over the play-calling at this critical juncture and, IMO, blew the game.

To me, Zorn's taking control of play-calling at key points in this game to poor effect and his conservative coaching decisions in the Cowboys game, which I think contributed to that loss, have sealed his fate. After these two painful division losses, there's little doubt left in my mind that Zorn will be fired at the end of the season.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;632202]We had a chance to really take control of the game but Zorn showed no balls by playing for the 3 instead of taking a shot at the endzone. When you're 3-7 where's the "nothing to lose" mentality? I really didn't understand that thinking at all. That's the kind of thing I look at and say, Shanahan would have gone for the throat there no doubt. Zorn is just too soft.[/quote]

That's funny, b/c that's who we thought Zorn was, an "anti" Gibbs, attacking offense. Zorn has morphed into a conservative offensive playcaller after 2 years in DC.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=Gmanc711;632071]I know its on a bunch of people...but smack down on our 2 mintue offense at the end of games... I was on the AIM with Dasel and said "I'll be you my life this drive goes no more than four plays"... I mean when is the last time we have driven down to tie or win a game? I dont even put this on Campbell, because I honest to god can't remember the last time anyone in the orginazation did... I mean its just crazy... really not a whole lot of smack, but I just had to say that.[/quote]
i was saying the same thing while watching. then fox puts up a graphic that says Campbell has 7 fourth quarter comebacks in his career. when did they happen? i didnt know practice counted

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=dmek25;632242]i was saying the same thing while watching. then fox puts up a graphic that says Campbell has 7 fourth quarter comebacks in his career. when did they happen? i didnt know practice counted[/quote]

Well the 4th quarter is 15 minutes long, it's not just the final two minutes.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Definitely, definitely it was the playcalling that killed us on Sunday...Im confused was Zorn calling plays or was Lewis

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;632239]I completely agree with you on this point. I came away from the game with the feeling that Zorn really let his players down by not trusting them enough to go for it at that point. Had we scored a touchdown there, I think we probably would have won the game.

I find it interesting that it was Vinny's intent to replace Zorn as the play-caller, yet Zorn took over the play-calling at this critical juncture and, IMO, blew the game.

To me, Zorn's taking control of play-calling at key points in this game to poor effect and his conservative coaching decisions in the Cowboys game, which I think contributed to that loss, have sealed his fate. After these two painful division losses, there's little doubt left in my mind that [B]Zorn will be fired at the end of the season.[/quote][/B]

I think they should just fire the guy right now. At this point why wait? They've got a playcaller so just go ahead do it. This way they can get a head start on talking to Shanahan.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;632282][/B]

I think they should just fire the guy right now. At this point why wait? They've got a playcaller so just go ahead do it. This way they can get a head start on talking to Shanahan.[/quote]

He's already turned us down. I'd be more than happy to fire Vinny now and start interviewing a GM.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Shanahan may have turned down an offer to take the job during the season as well he should have. Once the season ends that's when the real talks will begin.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

I wonder if the fact that the 2nd rounders of 2008 are starting to play well will help Vinny keep his job?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

It won't hurt I suppose

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

But he's also responsible for bringing in Zorn and not bringing in more help along the line. Although I think we're getting there with our depth.

Still, I think he stays but in a different capacity

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

Yeah if DT,MK and FD start playing up to their potential it definately kills us in the getting rid of Vinny hopes.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632294]It won't hurt I suppose[/quote]

What sort of relationship does Vinny have with Shanahan, if any?

I'm guessing if Shanahan comes in he will be able to set up his own front office structure, no?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;632296]Yeah if DT,MK and FD start playing up to their potential it definately kills us in the getting rid of Vinny hopes.[/quote]

I don't think so. We are still losing and that is the bottom line.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632295]But he's also responsible for bringing in Zorn and not bringing in more help along the line. Although I think we're getting there with our depth.

Still, I think he stays but in a different capacity[/quote]
Vinnie, like Zorn is NOT incompetent. Both are clearly...........over their heads with the current organizational structure.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Eagles)
 

[quote=Lotus;632311]I don't think so. We are still losing and that is the bottom line.[/quote]

Agreed. I think the wheels of change are already in motion. Some decent production from guys like Thomas, Kelly, Davis, etc. isn't going to change much. I mean it's good to see, but it's not going to save any jobs.