No. 1 Pass Defense
 

Now that the Saints game is over, how do you feel about our secondary? Alot of fans and the DC media led us to believe that the secondary is not as good as the rating suggest. Brees had 419 yards, 2td, 1 int.

I feel the secondary did a good job, considering who they where facing. They didn't score get out of control. The two touchdowns that brees threw came off plays against Landry, who is out of position. Considering that our number 1corner Hall was out and so was Tryon, I think our secondary is as good as advertized. For me In don't care how many yard you throw on the field, to me it's all about redzone defense, and in my opinion the secondary and the defense as a whole did very well.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

That #1 pass D rating is based solely on yardage. We don't really intercept passes, and our coverage gets help from the solid pass rush we've had pretty much all year (I know that's a two-way street). We've allowed some long TD passes in crucial situations.

Drew Brees is the best QB in the NFC, maybe the league. He torches secondaries all the time.

GTripp can probably give us a good assessment of the pass coverage unit. My opinion is that it's above average, but certainly not top notch. We don't take the ball away enough.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

I know Smoot didn't show us much of anything today.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=WaldSkins;635778]I know Smoot didn't show us much of anything today.[/quote]

I'll try harder next time

These were, I believe, the 2nd most yards passing allowed by the Redskins D since Boomer Esiason passed for over 500 against us with the Cardinals.

All in all, we did ok though considering Barnes and Westbrook played a lot more than they ever have before

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=SmootSmack;635784]I'll try harder next time

These were, I believe, the 2nd most yards passing allowed by the Redskins D since Boomer Esiason passed for over 500 against us with the Cardinals.

All in all, we did ok though considering Barnes and Westbrook played a lot more than they ever have before[/quote]

As i typed it up, for some reason i thought you would respond to my Smoot comment.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

419 yards is alot....

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

Well I do think that the #1 rating is misleading, but that doesn't mean I think the secondary is poor. Up until the last few games where the skins offense has been competitive, teams have been able to go up by a TD and just focus on burning the clock. Its not that they can't pass on the skins, its just that they haven't had to. The really damning evidence is as GMScud mentioned, they don't force turnovers and they allow the big plays when they really need a stop.

I don't think the defense needs a complete overhaul though. I'm not a landry fan - he really just makes too many bonehead moves - but I love reed doughty and we've got an above average selection of CBs. I'd be in favor of trading landry and trying to pick up a true coverage safety in the draft to play FS with kareem moore. I'm also not sold on greg blache. I think he's given more credit than he really deserves... I mean I don't think we can solely blame the players for the disturbing amount of blown coverages this season. I wouldn't be too sad to see him go.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

"Pass Defense" includes pass rush, and when you include our pass rush, which is legitimately top five or six in the NFL, the total product is a unit that is above average at pass defense.

But the coverage units are horrendous. There are worse units in the NFL, but those teams only have like two or three wins or something, which means that they suck and we don't. I've seen the worst defense in modern Redskins history (2006), and our pass coverage might have been better then. That year was Carlos Rogers playing mediocre ball, Adam Archuleta and Sean Taylor fighting to see who could take a worse pursuit angle on any given play, and even with Minnesota relieving us of our Smoot burden, we trotted out Kenny Wright for 16 games.

When Springs was in the lineup, that 2006 team was better at coverage than this team is, and they ranked 31st in the NFL. Of course, Springs wasn't healthy at all that season, and without him, I'd say Rogers and Wright is a worse tandem than Rogers and Hall. And I'd take Tryon over Mike Rumph anyday. And I'd take Doughty over Archuleta. So while there's no big edge for the 2009 team here, I guess things could always be worse.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

And part of the suckitude of the safeties might simply be Landry playing in a role that doesn't suit him, but it's not like we don't have the talent to compensate for this. At least, I think we do.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=GTripp0012;635836]There are worse units in the NFL, but those teams only have like two or three wins or something, which means that they suck and we don't.[/quote]

Sounds like another team I know.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=GTripp0012;635838]And part of the suckitude of the safeties might simply be Landry playing in a role that doesn't suit him, but it's not like we don't have the talent to compensate for this. At least, I think we do.[/quote]
I don't see us getting rid of Landry after the year unless a D-minded coach comes in and maybe if someone offers us something first. Maybe 2009 for Landry can be the 2006 that ST had. I'd be interested to hear how much he studies assignments and game film of us as well as the opponents.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

The Landry project is wearing real thin. We're not going to have agood secondary with him as FS. He shows me little to think he can ever be an elite FS. It is time to move him back to SS and find even an average FS.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=GTripp0012;635838]And part of the suckitude of the safeties might simply be Landry playing in a role that doesn't suit him, but it's not like we don't have the talent to compensate for this. At least, I think we do.[/quote]

I really think this is it. CBs getting burned is somewhat more palatable than watching our 4th year FS constantly get beat by the same type of moves and constantly try and tackle people missile style and miss half the time. Someone needs to learn him that he isn't as good a ST was and can't get away with the same crap. And some coach needs to figure out that he can't play FS. Why is it that Carlos gets beats by double mioves and gets benched while Landry gets beat by similar moves and never comes off the field?

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

I thought they played pretty good most of the game. I just don't know what to think of LL.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=redsk1;635909]I thought they played pretty good most of the game. I just don't know what to think of LL.[/quote]

I think GTripp has made a good argument more than once that he simply isn't very football smart. He isn't as football smart as even ST was. ST was no field genius but he did OK and made up for it with once-in-a-lifetime physical ability. LL has great physical ability and no head for the game. Maybe now we understand why our corners are told to give 12 yard cushions. LL needs that much extra time to process and figure out what to do.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

The rating is totally fraudulent. The Skins played some of the worst passing Offenses in league history and arguably the easiest schedule of all time over the first 6 or 7 games of the season. They will finish middle of the pack, which is what they are.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=FRPLG;635911]I think GTripp has made a good argument more than once that he simply isn't very football smart. He isn't as football smart as even ST was. ST was no field genius but he did OK and made up for it with once-in-a-lifetime physical ability. LL has great physical ability and no head for the game. Maybe now we understand why our corners are told to give 12 yard cushions. LL needs that much extra time to process and figure out what to do.[/quote]
ST worked hard too.. heard he was constantly watching film, doing extra work with other positions, asking any question he thought that could help him learn more. A lot of that didn't come out until after his death but I heard that he was top notch in preparation.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

Although he gave up 2 scores, Landry was all over the field and I believe he belongs on this redskins roster.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

Washington now ranks 11th in yards per passing attempt.

That's because we got Brees'ed, but at some point, you have to show up against the big boys. We should recover some against Bruce Gradkowski this week, but I believe the true measure of the passing defense will show up in the final 3 games: Eli, Romo, Rivers.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=tryfuhl;635946]ST worked hard too.. heard he was constantly watching film, doing extra work with other positions, asking any question he thought that could help him learn more. A lot of that didn't come out until after his death but I heard that he was top notch in preparation.[/quote]

Am I wrong in understanding that his prep work marked more of his later career than his early career? I remember ST being problematic for a while before he became awesome. Maybe we should be wary of giving up on Landry too early because he might similarly wake up.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=Lotus;636910]Am I wrong in understanding that his prep work marked more of his later career than his early career? I remember ST being problematic for a while before he became awesome. Maybe we should be wary of giving up on Landry too early because he might similarly wake up.[/quote]

ST did have some problems in early years, both on and off field.. Although Sean didn't do what Landry does; he always celebrate only for his big hits, which he deserves to do so - it's like a goddamn train freight coming at you and Sean knows it.. Sean did mess up some plays, but he also made plays too.. As for preparing for games, I'm not sure but I think I heard he improved through out years, which is common for rookies?

I wonder if it's same thing for Landry, but I guess we will find out next season.. I know Vinny isn't going to trade Landry, he was 1st rounder - choice of either Vinny or Snyder.. Although there is one big problem with I have, his celebrations.... He celebrates every tackle, literally every one.. I'm really surprised the coaches still haven't say anything about it; it's quite annoying..

Edit: if ST was still here, Landry wouldn't be like this...

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

I think what it really comes down to is this, Landry is the most talented safety we have ..period. Until someone else can play FS to the coaches satisfaction, he'll stay there. I was hoping Kareem Moore would be that man. We're pretty strong at SS with Doughty and Horton (Before he got hurt). We're not very strong at FS. So do the coaches sacrifice the FS position to make an already strong SS position stronger by moving Landry there? Moore stepping up would really help to solve this problem and I'd like to see him start at least one game with Landry at SS. What better time than now? My understanding is they will try to move Landry around a little more but until someone else steps up the FS job is probably his. I don't like his antics either but I think he'd thrive and be more of a force at SS.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=GridIron26;636914]ST did have some problems in early years, both on and off field.. Although Sean didn't do what Landry does; he always celebrate only for his big hits, which he deserves to do so - it's like a goddamn train freight coming at you and Sean knows it.. Sean did mess up some plays, but he also made plays too.. As for preparing for games, I'm not sure but I think I heard he improved through out years, which is common for rookies?

I wonder if it's same thing for Landry, but I guess we will find out next season.. I know Vinny isn't going to trade Landry, he was 1st rounder - choice of either Vinny or Snyder.. Although there is one big problem with I have, his celebrations.... He celebrates every tackle, literally every one.. I'm really surprised the coaches still haven't say anything about it; it's quite annoying..

[B]Edit: if ST was still here, Landry wouldn't be like this[/B]...[/quote]

thats what i don't get, he does not have sean but he does have an older brother who plays for a team 30 minutes away, and his brother carries himself alot different, you think he could learn something from him

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=mlmdub130;636921]thats what i don't get, he does not have sean but he does have an older brother who plays for a team 30 minutes away, and his brother carries himself alot different, you think he could learn something from him[/quote]

True..

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=GridIron26;636914]ST did have some problems in early years, both on and off field.. Although Sean didn't do what Landry does; he always celebrate only for his big hits, which he deserves to do so - it's like a goddamn train freight coming at you and Sean knows it.. Sean did mess up some plays, but he also made plays too.. As for preparing for games, I'm not sure but I think I heard he improved through out years, which is common for rookies?

I wonder if it's same thing for Landry, but I guess we will find out next season.. I know Vinny isn't going to trade Landry, he was 1st rounder - choice of either Vinny or Snyder.. Although there is one big problem with I have, his celebrations.... He celebrates every tackle, literally every one.. I'm really surprised the coaches still haven't say anything about it; it's quite annoying..

Edit: if ST was still here, Landry wouldn't be like this...[/quote]

I completely agree that Landry might be very different if ST were still around.

I've thought about Landry's celebrations. I've gotten to the point of realizing that if Landry were just one positive play after another, without much negative admixed, I would not mind his celebrations at all. So the problem for me is not so much his celebrations as it is just eliminating his negative plays.

just my :twocents:

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=Lotus;636910]Am I wrong in understanding that his prep work marked more of his later career than his early career? I remember ST being problematic for a while before he became awesome. Maybe we should be wary of giving up on Landry too early because he might similarly wake up.[/quote]

I think what's happening is we, well really the people at Redskins Park, are saying "Well Taylor grew up, same will happen for Landry." You can't really wait for things to happen, I don't think.

Re: No. 1 Pass Defense
 

[quote=SmootSmack;636988]I think what's happening is we, well really the people at Redskins Park, are saying "Well Taylor grew up, same will happen for Landry." You can't really wait for things to happen, I don't think.[/quote]

Good point.