Franchise Quarterbacks
 

Going into the Cowboys game I figured I'd offer a little food for thought on how so-called "franchise" quarterbacks are acquired.

Here is a list of the top-10 NFL quarterbacks by rating currently:

Drew Brees - Round 2 (32)
Philip Rivers - Round 1 (4)
Brett Favre - Round 2 (33)
Aaron Rodgers - Round 1 (24)
Peyton Manning - Round 1 (1)
Ben Roethlisberger - Round 1 (11)
Matt Schaub - Round 3 (90)
Tony Romo - Undrafted
Eli Manning - Round 1 (1)
Tom Brady - Round 6 (199)

The consistency is that each quarterback on this list was either A) drafted by a franchise who had a strong track record of team building and B) was in most cases given time to learn the trade before playing.

My point here is that franchise quarterbacks aren't drafted; they are cultivated. To get from point-A to point-B, a team needs to bring a talented quarterback into a situation where they are given the opportunity to learn a system and surrounded with blue chip talent. Under these conditions, talented quarterbacks can become "franchise quarterbacks."

It is a myth to believe that a team that doesn't have a solid foundation of talent will be able to draft a talented quarterback and expect them to succeed.

In other words, bringing in a Sam Bradford without giving him time to develop and surrounding him with talent would simply be a waste of a draft pick.

There is really no reason why Campbell shouldn't be brought back for the next two years. Other than Campbell there is not one scenario I can imagine where the Redskins are going to have success at the position.

Re: Franchise Quarterbacks
 

trade him and cooley for schaub....

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are you related DD? i see you had brought up his name in a different thread

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[quote=dmek25;646168]are you related DD? i see you had brought up his name in a different thread[/quote]

No, thats FredDavisBro (aka our very own Tanner Cooley).

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[quote=doughtydoubter;646165]trade him and cooley for schaub....[/quote]

You have to have a willing partner to make a trade. Besides the Texans have Owens Daniels who many believe is a top 5 TE.

Re: Franchise Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Drift Reality;646163]......My point here is that franchise [B]quarterbacks aren't drafted; they are cultivated. To get from point-A to point-B, a team needs to bring a talented quarterback into a situation where they are given the opportunity to learn a system and surrounded with blue chip talent. Under these conditions, talented quarterbacks can become "franchise quarterbacks."
[/B]
I[/quote]

Yes that is true. But just as important as "a team needs to bring a talented quarterback into a situation where they are given the opportunity to learn a system and surrounded with blue chip talent." Just a important or more so, is having a strong coaching staff and a system that works well with the type of talent your QB and the rest of your roster has.
For example when Joe Gibbs was hired in 1982 he came from the Air Coryell system where throwing the ball was done a lot. Well after going 0-5 and they soon discovered what they had was a very good Running OL and back, so they changed their game plan to suit their talent. Not the other way around.
Something Blache needs to learn.
Coaches have to learn to swallow their egos sometimes.

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Considering 4 of those are top 11 picks.. 5 are first round.. and a couple of others are BARELY into the 2nd round, I'm not sure you can't say a franchise QB can't be drafted

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I like Bradford...that's my profound contribution for this thread

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Yes, you need patience when developing a Qb and yes, you need talent around them. It's hard to turn down a qb though when you need one. The question is, are the qb's that are available worth it? I have no idea.

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We traded up two slots short in 2005. If we had moved one spot ahead of GB and taken Aaron Rodgers we would be set. Dude is a franchise QB no question.

Oh wait he might be dead right now behind the "Vinny Special" oline in DC.

JC is a tough SOB I will give him that.

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[quote=wilsowilso;646497]We traded up two slots short in 2005. If we had moved one spot ahead of GB and taken Aaron Rodgers we would be set. Dude is a franchise QB no question.

Oh wait he might be dead right now behind the "Vinny Special" oline in DC.

JC is a tough SOB I will give him that.[/quote]

Rodgers has taken double digit more sacks this year.

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[quote=tryfuhl;646705]Rodgers has taken double digit more sacks this year.[/quote]

I forgot. GB's line is terrible. They do have great wr weapons?

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[quote=wilsowilso;646724]I forgot. GB's line is terrible. They do have great wr weapons?[/quote]
Driver and Jones have a good chance of both being 1000 yard receivers this year. Finley is over 500yds, Jones over 400. They've got a pretty solid WR corps.

Re: Franchise Quarterbacks
 

[quote=Drift Reality;646163]Going into the Cowboys game I figured I'd offer a little food for thought on how so-called "franchise" quarterbacks are acquired.

Here is a list of the top-10 NFL quarterbacks by rating currently:

Drew Brees - Round 2 (32)
Philip Rivers - Round 1 (4)
Brett Favre - Round 2 (33)
Aaron Rodgers - Round 1 (24)
Peyton Manning - Round 1 (1)
Ben Roethlisberger - Round 1 (11)
Matt Schaub - Round 3 (90)
Tony Romo - Undrafted
Eli Manning - Round 1 (1)
Tom Brady - Round 6 (199)

The consistency is that each quarterback on this list was either A) drafted by a franchise who had a strong track record of team building and B) was in most cases given time to learn the trade before playing.

My point here is that franchise quarterbacks aren't drafted; they are cultivated. To get from point-A to point-B, a team needs to bring a talented quarterback into a situation where they are given the opportunity to learn a system and surrounded with blue chip talent. Under these conditions, talented quarterbacks can become "franchise quarterbacks."

It is a myth to believe that a team that doesn't have a solid foundation of talent will be able to draft a talented quarterback and expect them to succeed.

In other words, bringing in a Sam Bradford without giving him time to develop and surrounding him with talent would simply be a waste of a draft pick.

There is really no reason why Campbell shouldn't be brought back for the next two years. Other than Campbell there is not one scenario I can imagine where the Redskins are going to have success at the position.[/quote]

well he is on the list sorry, the benedryl im taking...... Big Ben, but I must say JC should be brought back

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after last night you must be crazy. if i was running the show, over half of this team wouldn't be here next year

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I've said it before...I see hardly a player on this team who could really be considered a "Franchise" Player. We have some good solid players, but it's obvious that we have dire need at O-Line, Quarterback, and Runningback. I think Quinton is the man here, but he is gonna need help.

Blache needs to go as D-Coach. I can't stand that he doesn't like blitzing and feels that sacks are "overrated". What an idiot. He needs out of here..

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[quote=SolidSnake84;646825]I've said it before...I see hardly a player on this team who could really be considered a "Franchise" Player. We have some good solid players, but it's obvious that we have dire need at O-Line, Quarterback, and Runningback. I think Quinton is the man here, but he is gonna need help.

Blache needs to go as D-Coach. I can't stand that he doesn't like blitzing and feels that sacks are "overrated". What an idiot. He needs out of here..[/quote]

Other than Orakpo, this team has no "must keep" players. You wont need to worry about Blache, he's going out with the rest of the coaching staff.

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Yeah, Blache is outy! This has been a tough season to stomach, but a top 5 pick should be a worthy reward! PLEASE TAKE A TACKLE MR ALLEN!

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Donovan McNabb was taken with the #2 overall pick in the draft by the team that had THE WORST RECORD in the NFL the year before. The first pick went to the rejuvenated Cleveland Browns franchise that year; they took Tim Couch.


So, McNabb went to a team with a horrible foundation around him and with a rookie head coach who had never been a head coach at any level before that.


And I suspect that we can agree that McNabb has been sorta successful as a QB, no? So, it looks as if he succeeded in spite of all the things that "were against him" - - except for his physical and mental abilities which made him what he is.

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[quote=sportscurmudgeon;647030]Donovan McNabb was taken with the #2 overall pick in the draft by the team that had THE WORST RECORD in the NFL the year before. The first pick went to the rejuvenated Cleveland Browns franchise that year; they took Tim Couch.


So, McNabb went to a team with a horrible foundation around him and with a rookie head coach who had never been a head coach at any level before that.


And I suspect that we can agree that McNabb has been sorta successful as a QB, no? So, it looks as if he succeeded in spite of all the things that "were against him" - - except for his physical and mental abilities which made him what he is.[/quote]
I think it seems obvious though that McNabb and Manning are exceptions. There aren't a lot of examples of bad teams drafting a good QB and turning it around quickly. Obviously it is possible but it lightening ina bottle. The more reasonable way, and least risky, is to have a solid team in place around him.

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[quote=FRPLG;647037]I think it seems obvious though that McNabb and Manning are exceptions. There aren't a lot of examples of bad teams drafting a good QB and[B] turning it around quickly[/B]. Obviously it is possible but it lightening ina bottle. The more reasonable way, and least risky, is to have a solid team in place around him.[/quote]

Trying to do this has kind of been our problem, hasn't it?

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[quote=SmootSmack;647042]Trying to do this has kind of been our problem, hasn't it?[/quote]

Absolutely. We have been a a player or two away every year since Gibbs' 2nd season. Not just QB though.

At least that's what the group think was from the fans up to the top.

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The key to making a franchise QB you must build a solid group around the kid and give him the opportunity to be a leader. Do not handcuff the player, set play up to bring out his talent.

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The kid has it or he doesn't. I like the Collinsworth comment about how JC has just run a new O scheme every year of his career going all the way back to HS. JC has developed as much as he can and has improved somewhat since he has been here, but his mechanics of holding onto the ball too long, the happy feet crap, etc are not systemic in nature. It means he still can't scan the entire field in the 2-3 seconds the average NFL Qb has til he has to make the throw. I know the line truly sucked this season, but still it isn't 100% line. I was at the Lions game personally and how long do the guys have to keep a rush off him til he unloads the ball? To be fair to JC, the days of the true franchise QB are coming to an end for the most part when Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc hang it up. Think about it. Every playoff team in the 1980's had HOF QBs and then some. What you have now are a bunch of scrubs for the most part, that are more products of the college system they were in before they were drafted. JC is definitely an above average QB in a league that is filled with scrubs or above average QBs, but not good enough to garner the title of franchise QB. I do not expect any of the glitzy QBs coming out of college to make it in the pros, as they are all system QBs on powerhouse teams that truly did not face too much competition in their respective conferences. Big 12 is a joke for defensive play and the Gators only real competiton all year was Bama and look what happened. Bradford is going to get crushed, McCoy will be reduced to Leinhart's status, and Teebow is overrated period. Clausen is a big question mark for me, but ND QBs have sucked in the NFL after Joey T left the game.

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[quote=GusFrerotte;647176]The kid has it or he doesn't. I like the Collinsworth comment about how JC has just run a new O scheme every year of his career going all the way back to HS. JC has developed as much as he can and has improved somewhat since he has been here, but his mechanics of holding onto the ball too long, the happy feet crap, etc are not systemic in nature. It means he still can't scan the entire field in the 2-3 seconds the average NFL Qb has til he has to make the throw. I know the line truly sucked this season, but still it isn't 100% line. I was at the Lions game personally and how long do the guys have to keep a rush off him til he unloads the ball? To be fair to JC, the days of the true franchise QB are coming to an end for the most part when Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc hang it up. Think about it. Every playoff team in the 1980's had HOF QBs and then some. What you have now are a bunch of scrubs for the most part, that are more products of the college system they were in before they were drafted. JC is definitely an above average QB in a league that is filled with scrubs or above average QBs, but not good enough to garner the title of franchise QB. I do not expect any of the glitzy QBs coming out of college to make it in the pros, as they are all system QBs on powerhouse teams that truly did not face too much competition in their respective conferences. Big 12 is a joke for defensive play and the Gators only real competiton all year was Bama and look what happened. Bradford is going to get crushed, McCoy will be reduced to Leinhart's status, and Teebow is overrated period. Clausen is a big question mark for me, but ND QBs have sucked in the NFL after Joey T left the game.[/quote]

I don't think franchise QBs are going away.

After Brady and Manning there are guys like Schaub, Rivers, Romo, Eli, Big Ben who are all under 30 and are the next franchise QBs that will dominate the game once Manning and Brady are gone.

And there are even younger guys like Matt Ryan, Sanchez, Rodgers, Flacco, Henne, Stafford, etc.

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You know who i like seiously as a potential qb draft pick?
Jake Locker.

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I dont think franchise QBs are going away for good, but i agree with that poster somewhat.

Teams aren't going to want a franchise QB as much as they will want someone who can just run the offense from year to year. With the new salary cap rules, this may be born out of necessity.

I just see a team keeping a QB for 3 or 4 years instead of 10-12.....

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What new cap rules?

With the way the league has shifted to more of a passing league, I find this take that franchise QBs are going away to be laughable, frankly.

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i was talking about the rumored new cap rules...that will go in place after this season...allegedly.

Won't this limit the big signings and set aside how much a rookie can be given??

thats all i'm saying.

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What are the rumored new cap rules??

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[quote=doughtydoubter;647244]You know who i like seiously as a potential qb draft pick?
Jake Locker.[/quote]

Maybe in 2011

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So far all I have heard of is the draft becoming more valuable and free agency not meaning as much...That gives me the impression that a team could get themselves a good QB through the draft every 5 or 6 years instead of turning to free agency to fill holes...

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I keep on hearing that Shannahan likes Bradford if thats true then I say take him. Coach was able to get Cutler an 88 passer rating in his rookie year. Combine that with Bruce Allens love of drafting O-Lineman and we could end up with a potential franchise QB and 2 or 3 solid line prospects. Something Vinny neglected to do, which is interesting because he loved stacking up at virtually every other position during the draft.

I know I said this before but down in Atlanta a lot of people were upset when the team selected Matt Ryan instead of Glen Dorsey. Those same people are now walking around with Matt Ryan jerseys singing the praises of Matty Ice.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;647463]I keep on hearing that Shannahan likes Bradford if thats true then I say take him. Coach was able to get Cutler an 88 passer rating in his rookie year. Combine that with Bruce Allens love of drafting O-Lineman and we could end up with a potential franchise QB and 2 or 3 solid line prospects. Something Vinny neglected to do, which is interesting because he loved stacking up at virtually every other position during the draft.

I know I said this before but down in Atlanta a lot of people were upset when the team selected Matt Ryan instead of Glen Dorsey. Those same people are now walking around with Matt Ryan jerseys singing the praises of Matty Ice.[/quote]

Correct! Same thing happened in Philly when they took McNabb instead of Ricky Williams!

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[quote=Drift Reality;646163]The consistency is that each quarterback on this list was either A) drafted by a franchise who had a strong track record of team building and B) was in most cases given time to learn the trade before playing.

My point here is that franchise quarterbacks aren't drafted; they are cultivated. To get from point-A to point-B, a team needs to bring a talented quarterback into a situation where they are given the opportunity to learn a system and surrounded with blue chip talent. Under these conditions, talented quarterbacks can become "franchise quarterbacks."[/quote]

Dude great post.
I agree 100%.

I a 'franchise QB' first requires a competent franchise.
Imo its nearly impossible to have a 'franchise QB' for a bad franchise.
I think the reason why [I]some[/I] QBs 'bust' is because their franchises didn't know how or couldn't build a good enough team around them to be successful and instead of admiting this and changing as a franchise they change QBs. Then rinse wash repeat.
Sometimes the QBs they cast off go somewhere else and have success.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;647463]I keep on hearing that Shannahan likes Bradford if thats true then I say take him. Coach was able to get Cutler an 88 passer rating in his rookie year. Combine that with Bruce Allens love of drafting O-Lineman and we could end up with a potential franchise QB and 2 or 3 solid line prospects. Something Vinny neglected to do, which is interesting because he loved stacking up at virtually every other position during the draft.

I know I said this before but down in Atlanta a lot of people were upset when the team selected Matt Ryan instead of Glen Dorsey. Those same people are now walking around with Matt Ryan jerseys singing the praises of Matty Ice.[/quote]


The rise of Ryan and Flacco instead of the Leinharts and Harringtons for the past decade or so have me worried about us taking one of the "Magic Four" QBs this season. The last college QB studs that lived up to there billing were Peyton and Aikman. Bradford is a gamble to say the least. One good pop from say Andre Ware and Mr Bradford will become a major bust for us ala Schuler. Too many quality QBs coming out this year with good yardage, completion %, and TD/INT ratios to just focus on Tebow, Clausen, Bradford, or McCoy. A partial list as follows:

Comp Attempts TD INT Yardage
Pike 184 293 26 6 2350
Stull 192 297 21 8 2470
Brown 270 417 19 8 3575
Kafka 272 414 12 7 2898
Lefevour 285 401 27 6 3043
Elliot 267 433 22 13 3025

There are a few more seniors that I need to get data for such as Canfield from Oregon ST, Todd from Auburn, and several others that might be around for round 2 or even 3. Look for Mallet to be the hot QB in the 2011 or 2012 draft. THe kid is hot!!!!!! In 2011 or even next draft if they declare early Dalton of TCU or Keenum of Houston might be worth a look. Lots of potential QB studs out there in the next few years.