Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

Not surprising other than maybe it was worse tahn we thought. Could this article scream Portis and Haynesworth anymore or is it just me?

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/daniels-wynn-acknowledge-redsk.html]Redskins Insider - Daniels, Wynn acknowledge need for leader[/url]

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

God..short of the Raiders, this is the most mismanaged organization in the league. If Snyder has any shame, he won't show his face or make any football decisions other than sign checks for the rest of his ownership of the Skins.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

To me this is where the blame on Snyder falls. He apparently has no clue that his co-mingling and relationships with the players creates such a toxic environment. Gibbs should not have stood for it. Hell if that was as big a problem as these guys say then on principle alone Zorn should have quit.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

I didn't have an issue with Haynesworth. We knew he doesn't play every down coming in. When you're double-teamed every play and fighting through 600+ pounds of blocking, you're going to need breathers. He is a hard worker despite what looked like a part-time role. Look how our sack totals skyrocketed with his addition. He earned his pay as far as I'm concerned. True, his late-season practice shenanigan was uncalled for, but his play on the field was what we bought.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=FRPLG;649671]To me this is where the blame on Snyder falls. He apparently has no clue that his co-mingling and relationships with the players creates such a toxic environment. Gibbs should not have stood for it. Hell if that was as big a problem as these guys say then on principle alone Zorn should have quit.[/quote]

Correct.

Players need to go to and through the coach for concerns. Perhaps Zorn was to blame for some of it, he didn't exactly have much authority to put his foot down and make them listen, especially later on.

Snyder should have stopped it though. No talking to him or Vinny, talk to the coach and he'll relay anything he needs to.

With Allen and Shanahan, I believe this will stop.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=Buster;649673]I didn't have an issue with Haynesworth. We knew he doesn't play every down coming in. When you're double-teamed every play and fighting through 600+ pounds of blocking, you're going to need breathers. He is a hard worker despite what looked like a part-time role. Look how our sack totals skyrocketed with his addition. He earned his pay as far as I'm concerned. True, his late-season practice shenanigan was uncalled for, but his play on the field was what we bought.[/quote]

This goes beyond on field contributions though. I always got the feeling that AH had a Portis-like pipeline to the upstairs. I agree AH was a monster and I didn't have issues with his dissatisfaction with the way he was being used. Hell I agreed with him. But I chalk the complete ignoring of the bad-mouthing by the organization as even more sign that AH was allowed to do whatever because he and Snyder were buddies.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=Buster;649674]Correct.

Players need to go to and through the coach for concerns. Perhaps Zorn was to blame for some of it, he didn't exactly have much authority to put his foot down and make them listen, especially later on.

Snyder should have stopped it though. No talking to him or Vinny, talk to the coach and he'll relay anything he needs to.

With Allen and Shanahan, I believe this will stop.[/quote]

Snyder's downfall has always been that he gets buddy buddy with players and next thing you know they're signing ridiculous 7-year contract extensions and becoming mini-HCs in the locker room.

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Wow!! What a shocker!! <sarcasm font off>

[I]Hopefully[/I], this was more the result of VC's divisive management style than of DS's intervention. Again, [I]hopefully[/I], Allen and the next coach tell DS "Hey, you want to hang out with players and be there buddy - Fine. So long as every conversation ends with 'but remember, ____ is coach and what he says goes. period.' "

I think DS wants to win enough that he may have learned he needs to get out of the way. Who knows.

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Dang. We all knew stuff like this was going on but I did not know it was this bad.

Bruce and Mike, right this ship!

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

Preferential treatment was a huge, huge issue when I was down there back in the late 20th century/early 00s. But it wasn't really with Snyder-it was with other owners who are no longer part of the team. With Dan Snyder it was really-and I think it still is-an open door policy. Some players took advantage of it more than others but from my recollection there wasn't any overt preferential treatment from him.

What exactly is happening now I can't really say but it's not like this is kind of stuff is all that uncommon. Like when Parcells was asked to explain why he cut Quincy Carter because of drug problems but put up with Lawrence Taylor for so many years he basically said "Because one guy is LT and the other guy is Quincy Carter"

Still, I think a lot of this will change with Vinny gone now. As I think I may have told a couple of you a big reason he was let go was that he couldn't/didn't have control over the basic organizational structure and that was extremely detrimental. That coupled with the fact that Zorn is someone who never really earned the respect of the players-he couldn't say trust me this works the way say Gibbs could-just made for a bad combination.

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I agree FRPLG. One of the things I noticed in Allen's presser was, he said the COACH would decide which assistants would stay or be let go. I hope this means a return to power of the HC and The Dan will back off with any interference. His relationships with certain players has undermined the HC IMO.

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[quote=SmootSmack;649682]Preferential treatment was a huge, huge issue when I was down there back in the late 20th century/early 00s. But it wasn't really with Snyder-it was with other owners who are no longer part of the team. With Dan Snyder it was really-and I think it still is-an open door policy. Some players took advantage of it more than others but from my recollection there wasn't any overt preferential treatment from him.

What exactly is happening now I can't really say but it's not like this is kind of stuff is all that uncommon. Like when Parcells was asked to explain why he cut Quincy Carter because of drug problems but put up with Lawrence Taylor for so many years he basically said "Because one guy is LT and the other guy is Quincy Carter"

Still, I think a lot of this will change with Vinny gone now. As I think I may have told a couple of you a big reason he was let go was that he couldn't/didn't have control over the basic organizational structure and that was extremely detrimental. That coupled with the fact that Zorn is someone who never really earned the respect of the players-he couldn't say trust me this works the way say Gibbs could-just made for a bad combination.[/quote]
I would say this...the mere appearance that any players can go off talking to the owner about the organization, side-stepping the head coach, is completely poisonous. If DS's door is always open he needs to close it. Talking to Snyder about doing a charity event or something is cool...it needs to go through the head-coach. Talking to DS about why your position coach sucks isn't cool...it needs to go through the head-coach so he can tell you to go eff yourself. Until there is some top-down structure and not some amoebas cauldron of "rule guys" and "guideline guys" we're not going to ever get back to being a consistent winner.

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[quote=Lotus;649681]Dang. We all knew stuff like this was going on but I did not know it was this bad.

Bruce and Mike, right this ship![/quote]

On a different note, Bruce - could we get rid of Wynn and Daniels? - the so called "locker room" leaders who haven't performed over the years. I can't stand those two fuckers and their righteous tirades after we get our a$$ kicked. Righteous guys with no talent are as much a symptom of what's wrong with this organization as uber-high-priced free agents. Rock can bolt too as far as I'm concerned - no way he's worth the $1.6 odd million he is due next year.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=SmootSmack;649682]Preferential treatment was a huge, huge issue when I was down there back in the late 20th century/early 00s. But it wasn't really with Snyder-it was with other owners who are no longer part of the team. With Dan Snyder it was really-and I think it still is-an open door policy. Some players took advantage of it more than others but from my recollection there wasn't any overt preferential treatment from him.

What exactly is happening now I can't really say but it's not like this is kind of stuff is all that uncommon. Like when Parcells was asked to explain why he cut Quincy Carter because of drug problems but put up with Lawrence Taylor for so many years he basically said "Because one guy is LT and the other guy is Quincy Carter"

Still, I think a lot of this will change with Vinny gone now. As I think I may have told a couple of you a big reason he was let go was that he couldn't/didn't have control over the basic organizational structure and that was extremely detrimental. That coupled with the fact that Zorn is someone who never really earned the respect of the players-he couldn't say trust me this works the way say Gibbs could-just made for a bad combination.[/quote]

For all the Snyder bashing, I really think Snyder's biggest problem is that he simply asks "What do you think we need to win?" and then goes out and "gets" whatever a trusted scout, coach or executive says is needed: "We need a big tackle"; "We need a new QB", etc. There doesn't seem to be anyone who says "Whoa there big fella - let's make sure all these 'gets' fit into a long-term successful plan".

To me, VC was [I]never[/I] gonna nix anything - "Sure, Mr. Snyder, yes, Mr. Snyder you're wonderful Mr. Snyder - get whatever they say will work Mr. Snyder." If it works, great - VC takes some credit for it. If it failed... well ... "Yes. Mr. Snyder it didn't work out but I relied on ____, Mr. Snyder. Clearly he screwed up Mr. Snyder ... It's probably Gregg Williams fault Mr. Snyder."

It's all conjecture, but I really think Cerrato was the rot in the apple. Hopefully, with him gone, the rot can be excised and accountability can return.

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BA pretty much said today the team needs to change the way they do business. I think this sort of stuff is what he was alluding to.

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We've talked about this before. Snyder will get his coaches whatever they want which some say makes him a good owner. He'd be a great owner if he didn't always get them what they want. It's almost like a father. The best out there know when it's necessary to say No

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I hope in this house cleaning Snyder pays Shanny more than his highest paid player so that it is made clear that buck literally stops there.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

A Jelly Donut!?

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;649712]I hope in this house cleaning Snyder pays Shanny more than his highest paid player so that it is made clear that buck literally stops there.[/quote]

That will never happen, not in this day and age.

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[quote=SmootSmack;649695]We've talked about this before. Snyder will get his coaches whatever they want which some say makes him a good owner. He'd be a great owner if he didn't always get them what they want. It's almost like a father. The best out there know when it's necessary to say No[/quote]

That is Bruce Allen's job now right? To say no when the new coach screams I want so and so.

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[quote=Buster;649674]Correct.

Players need to go to and through the coach for concerns. Perhaps Zorn was to blame for some of it, he didn't exactly have much authority to put his foot down and make them listen, especially later on.

Snyder should have stopped it though. No talking to him or Vinny, talk to the coach and he'll relay anything he needs to.

With Allen and Shanahan, I believe this will stop.[/quote]

Allen's conference addressed this very well I thought. The HC is the leader of the team period. No one else, period. I hope the words are backed up with actions

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;649736]That is Bruce Allen's job now right? To say no when the new coach screams I want so and so.[/quote]

Let's hope so. We need discipline, we don't need to be spending a 3rd round pick on Maurice Clarett or any other similar Shanahanigans...too soon?

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

The formula for success in the NFL starts with getting sufficient talent on the squad and then molding that talent into a team.


It is pretty clear that I am not nearly as enamored with the talent level on this roster as of 1/4/09 as many others around here are. Of the 22 starters the Skins put on the field for most of the games this year, I'd be surprised if half of them would be starters on a team with a winning record. The team needs a talent upgrade.


Having said that, the Redskins have not been a real team for years now. Bruce Smith used to whine to Danny Boy when he didn't get enough snaps; this is not something that just happened the day before yesterday. And when there are "back-channel" ways to get around the coach, you don't have a team; you have an assemblage of individuals who are playing for individual agendas as much as for team outcomes.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=SmootSmack;649757]Let's hope so. We need discipline, we don't need to be spending a 3rd round pick on Maurice Clarett or any other similar Shanahanigans...too soon?[/quote]

Makes you wonder about Gerhart in the 3rd? Crap never mind, we don't have a 3rd round pick......for now. However, with that said I wouldn't mind seeing a trade down from our second round pick. Assuming of course a quality offensive tackle could be identified by the scouting department.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;649795]Makes you wonder about Gerhart in the 3rd? Crap never mind, we don't have a 3rd round pick......for now. [B] However, with that said I wouldn't mind seeing a trade down from our second round pick.[/B] Assuming of course a quality offensive tackle could be identified by the scouting department.[/quote]

With the 2nd and 3rd rounds conducted on Friday night, that Friday is going to be hell on my nerves. Twitter may go on overload with all the trade rumors that will surface.

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;649789]The formula for success in the NFL starts with getting sufficient talent on the squad and then molding that talent into a team.


[B]It is pretty clear that I am not nearly as enamored with the talent level on this roster as of 1/4/09 as many others around here are. [/B] Of the 22 starters the Skins put on the field for most of the games this year, I'd be surprised if half of them would be starters on a team with a winning record. The team needs a talent upgrade.


Having said that, the Redskins have not been a real team for years now. Bruce Smith used to whine to Danny Boy when he didn't get enough snaps; this is not something that just happened the day before yesterday. And when there are "back-channel" ways to get around the coach, you don't have a team; you have an assemblage of individuals who are playing for individual agendas as much as for team outcomes.[/quote]

Never mind last year. How about the roster on 1/4/10

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;649811]With the 2nd and 3rd rounds conducted on Friday night, that Friday is going to be hell on my nerves. Twitter may go on overload with all the trade rumors that will surface.[/quote]
This draft nonsense is getting crazy, 3 days starting on Thursday.

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Boswell nails it...those talking about the issues need to be part of the solution. It's all fine to bitch and moan now but when this group comes back together the likes of Daniels and Cartwright need to start busting up this crap-culture. If they're just gonna talk about it then don't let the door hit ya guys. The irst thing that needs to happen is Rock needs to put a locker room and public foot in Portis' ass.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/04/AR2010010403085.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Redskins lacked leadership, accountability - WP
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;649811]With the 2nd and 3rd rounds conducted on Friday night, that Friday is going to be hell on my nerves. Twitter may go on overload with all the trade rumors that will surface.[/quote]

lets just hope we get two picks friday night, that would make my night

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Mr. Cooke never did that shit. He just hired the right guys and signed the damn checks and let the football guys do their thing. He just sat back and watched his Skins kick some ass. He wasn't a total egomaniac like Snyder or Jones. He admitted he knew nothing about the ins and outs of running a football team, but was smart enough to hire guys that did. Too bad John Boy was sort of a wuss, then he might have been able to keep the team somehow.

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[quote=FRPLG;650040]Boswell nails it...those talking about the issues need to be part of the solution. It's all fine to bitch and moan now but when this group comes back together the likes of Daniels and Cartwright need to start busting up this crap-culture. If they're just gonna talk about it then don't let the door hit ya guys. The irst thing that needs to happen is Rock needs to put a locker room and public foot in Portis' ass.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/04/AR2010010403085.html]washingtonpost.com[/url][/quote]

Yeah I found it kind of interesting that players were talking about needing more leaders in the locker room...I mean why not be those leaders then?

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[quote=GusFrerotte;650044]Mr. Cooke never did that shit. He just hired the right guys and signed the damn checks and let the football guys do their thing. He just sat back and watched his Skins kick some ass. He wasn't a total egomaniac like Snyder or Jones. He admitted he knew nothing about the ins and outs of running a football team, but was smart enough to hire guys that did. Too bad John Boy was sort of a wuss, then he might have been able to keep the team somehow.[/quote]

What do you mean he wasn't an ego maniac? What do you mean all he did was sit back and sign the checks? He was in Beathard/Casserly and Gibb's faces all the time. Attending practices, making suggestions, threatening to fire Gibbs, suggesting that Gibbs was a fool for starting Rypien and telling him he should be more like Jimmy Johnson.

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[quote=SmootSmack;650103]Yeah I found it kind of interesting that players were talking about needing more leaders in the locker room...I mean why not be those leaders then?[/quote]

Players can only take leadership so far. When they're not getting the support from above, it basically undermines any sort of peer leadership. I think leadership is something that needs to start at the top and work it's way down. It's hard to go the other way.

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I agree w/ you both. I am always struck by the fact that it doesn't seem like we have a real leader on this team. At least one that is front and center. The closest thing it seems we've had in recent years is DHall this past season. To me a leader has to be confident enough in his position to call people out in public. Maybe not throw people under the bus but at least be honest about failures. We never seem to have that. But I also realize the culture has probably killed that some. I just wish we had a player with the balls to put himself in front of the cultural bus and start cracking heads. It sounds like maybe that's what Zorn needed the most.

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[quote=FRPLG;650128]I agree w/ you both. I am always struck by the fact that it doesn't seem like we have a real leader on this team. At least one that is front and center. The closest thing it seems we've had in recent years is DHall this past season. To me a leader has to be confident enough in his position to call people out in public. Maybe not throw people under the bus but at least be honest about failures. We never seem to have that. But I also realize the culture has probably killed that some. I just wish we had a player with the balls to put himself in front of the cultural bus and start cracking heads. [B]It sounds like maybe that's what Zorn needed the most[/B].[/quote]

What Zorn needed was the power to be the true voice of the team. The problem was he was on a short leash right from the start and it didn't take long for certain players to figure that out.

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[quote=Mattyk;650132]What Zorn needed was the power to be the true voice of the team. The problem was he was on a short leash right from the start and it didn't take long for certain players to figure that out.[/quote]

Yeah I guess I meant he needed players to essentially create this since management hadn't. That's a tall order for sure.

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[quote=GusFrerotte;650044]Mr. Cooke never did that shit. He just hired the right guys and signed the damn checks and let the football guys do their thing. He just sat back and watched his Skins kick some ass. He wasn't a total egomaniac like Snyder or Jones. He admitted he knew nothing about the ins and outs of running a football team, but was smart enough to hire guys that did. Too bad John Boy was sort of a wuss, then he might have been able to keep the team somehow.[/quote]

I don't believe that is exactly true, both Gibbs and Beathard spoke of Cooke's involvement. He did defer to football guys, but he was always involved.

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[quote=SmootSmack;650103]Yeah I found it kind of interesting that players were talking about needing more leaders in the locker room...I mean why not be those leaders then?[/quote]

My guess is that they tried, but had the rug pulled out from underneath them, either by Snyder directly, or more likely Zorn directly due to pressure from DS/VC. Leadership without authority is useless. The best thing I heard BA say was that he was going to select the coach, and that coach would have full authority to be the leader of the team. I hope it works like that. Alot of dysfunction would go away very quickly if the first time a player tries to go over the HC's head, he got doubly slapped down.

In my own job, I came in as a rookie (kinda like Zorn), and as soon as he put me in my position, when any guys went to him, his reply was you have to go to him. Not too long after that the guys started coming to me, because going over or behind or around me didn't get them anywhere. That's what needs to happen at Ashburn going forward. We will see if DS can do that.

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There's no way Shanahan comes in unless he's 100% in charge of his team and is the only sheriff in town. In terms of accountability and leadership, this is a great thing.

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[quote=Mattyk;650132]What Zorn needed was the power to be the true voice of the team. The problem was he was on a short leash right from the start and it didn't take long for certain players to figure that out.[/quote]

I agree. Ideally I wanted Zorn back for a 3rd year, but after all that DS et al put him through, his credibility was already awash.