The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

So I've done some reading, some thinking, and some presser watching today. We've known Shanahan was going to be named coach for a while. After reading hundreds of posts on here today, there is plenty of elation. Everyone is stoked. Plenty of "FINALLY!" type statements.

Don't get me wrong, I think Shanahan/Allen is a positive move for sure. But I'm skeptical nonetheless. I've gotten too excited by this franchise before. "Oh wow, we signed HIM?? Oh wow, HE'S gonna be our coach?? Man I can't wait till training camp!!" Sound familiar? We've all been down this road too many times in the past 10+ years.

Marty Schottenheimer? Oh man, he's going to have complete control. He'll turn this thing around... Steve Spurrier? What an innovator he is. He'll surely revolutionize our passing game... Joe Gibbs? My gosh, the Lord of the Rings will without question boost us back up to the NFL's elite...

Yeah, not so much. I'm happy Mike Shanahan is our head coach. I'm also happy that Bruce Allen is running the show. If he is in fact running the show. I love the Washington Redskins. But at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. Hail.

A few good reads:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010602367.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010604596.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010604736.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Word seems to be that Snyder has realised he must step away from his meddling and let SHanahan and Allen do their jobs. Time will tell, but I still feel more positive than I have in months.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Come on man, let us have a few months of unbridled optimism before the season starts and all our dreams slip away lol. No, but you're right, we should all be cautiously optimistic and the best we can do at this point is hope to get better

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Since I've seen this story line before I'm in a wait and see mode. I do think this will be a postive change and a much better product two years from now.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

gm, i'm right there with you, almost started a thread just like this last night, we have definitely seen this a few times before. the things that stick out to me are marty was the first coach he hired unless you want to count robiske, and that was early on. other than marty he hasn't hired a succesful nfl coach that is not far removed from the game. and the second is the fact the he didn't go up there with shanny and allen during the presser even though you know it was driving him nuts not to be up there.

again i'm in the same boat as you wait and see, and i definitely have my homer glasses off and want to see this thing done the right way, with no real expectations of having a record anything better than 7-9 next year and maybe still last in the division, but with the look of promise for the seasons to come, i just hope danny boy is veiwing it the same way

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Bah Humbug! Shanahan is an experienced motivator/coach and we will reap immediate benefits from that and a quality staff. Our offense has several High skill players that have suffered indignities and want to prove themselves. Our D can be a top 12 very quickly.
It is Jan 7th, I will ride with the high feelings, because I can :)

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Ok. I'll temper my expectations. It may take as long as[B] 2 [/B]years to win the Super Bowl! ;) We'll see how it goes but it's honestly hard not to get excited by the recent moves. Just knowing we have a real GM and a HC who is known for having great success on the offensive side of the ball is very encouraging. At least to this point they are saying all the right things and discipline and hard work from the players seems like a reality that we've needed. I'm definitely encouraged.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I agree, it seems like a good move but its very much in the same as when Marty & Gibbs were hired. As for DS stepping back, a leopard doesnt change his spots and I think DS hasnt really changed but knows how to make it look that way.

Bottom line, I'll believe it when I see it because I've seen the beginning of this movie before.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Let's just call it the debbie downer thread, lol, j/k

Seriously though, I'm in wait and see mode like a lot of folks. At face value though, this feels different to me than past moves. This is the first time we've seen Snyder step aside and completely hand off the football ops. There's no way either Allen or Shanahan would have agreed to come here unless they were 110% sure that Snyder will be playing the role of owner, and owner only. Snyder had established relationships with both guys coming in so I think there's a trust factor there and that's important to him.

I'm excited, Allen and Shanahan bring an element of credibility to the front office that we've been sorely lacking. I think we're finally seeing a move in a new direction for the organization. A move that will emphasis some proven and more traditional methods of putting together a winner, not this willy-nilly approach of going for the big names, trading away picks on a whim, and ignoring glaring needs until everything bottoms out.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Every time a thread like this is started, Sally Jenkins gets new wings.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;651729]Come on man, let us have a few months of [U][B]unbridled optimism before the season starts and all our dreams slip away lol[/B][/U]. No, but you're right, we should all be cautiously optimistic and the best we can do at this point is hope to get better[/quote]

Yes, yes, yes!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

My personality is too similar to Spock's. I can't get too high and can't get too low. Dare I say I'm naturally... medium? I totally agree with you Scud. There are areas where Shanahan can make an immediate impact, but others will take much longer.

Immediate Impact:
- Discipline. Players will toe the line or lose their jobs.

- Respect in the locker room. He brings immediate leadership credibility, so those in the locker room who didn't respect Zorn will respect Shanahan.

- Turnovers on defense. The switch away from Blache's scheme to a defensive coordinator who favors a more attacking style should help the turnover situation. This is not a certainty, we don't know who the new DC is yet, so we don't know the scheme. But if it happens, it will happen this year.

Long Term Impact:
- Offensive line personnel. Our line is so shitty that it will take multiple player acquisitions before it's built the way he wants.

- QB development. It will take Campbell or a new rookie more than one year to get up to speed.

- Running game scheme. Offensive linemen will be shuffling in and out of here over the next two years. Installing the new scheme for the running game will take time as the new line gels.

In the NFL, you can put together a decent season just by playing disciplined and winning the turnover battle. So it's possible Shanahan turns in a 9-7 season in 2010. I'm definitely not hoping for any better than that until 2011 and beyond.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Peter King and Randy Cross this morning were talking about the OL on NFL radio, and they were discussing the fact that it doesn't take as long to get the zone blocking scheme up and running effectively over man schemes. I guess because it's more scheme over talent.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I go back to when Marty Schottenheimer was hired. Yes, he started the season 0-5, but he turned the season around and got the Redskins playing disciplined, hard nosed football. The team finished 8-8. It wasn't THAT talented of a group either. Imagine what Schottenheimer could have done if allowed the time to stay and build the team. So, the BIGGEST mistake of Snyder's tenure here was firing Schotty before he even got started. This coaching carousel probably wouldn't have happened if he would have allowed Marty another season to build the team.

This is sort of a similar situation in that Shanahan is going to have final say with talent, much like Marty did. Like Matty said, this just seems much different on the surface than the other hires, including Joe Gibbs. I definitely expect an immediate improvement with this team come 2010. Like what Schneed said, I don't expect the Redskins to be completely built into a championship team come next season, but I do expect the team to be improved enough that playoffs (lol why do I hear Jim Mora's voice in my head) wouldn't be out of the question. I too think a 9-7 record is possible, which I would take in his first year over a 4-12 record any day of the week!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Good thread GM...It demonstrates the power of positive thinking. I read all three of the links before going to bed last night, all three authors have consistently over the years pointed out the very same things they're demonstrating here.

Experience has taught me to always temper optimism and high hopes in exchange for common sense, patience and reality. People always get excited when change takes place, moreso when they've convinced themselves that the change they're moving into is going to be better than the one they're moving away from.

Someone, I think it was Landry44 posed the question; Why do people continue to think Snyder will not step back and let Allen & Shanahan run the show? Well the answer is simple, because his track record does not show that to be what he does. "Maybe" things will be different this time around, we don't know yet, but we will certainly find out. So it's only fair to those who are throughly convinced to share their moment. Many are and will remain in the W&S mode which based on all the things we've seen transpire here when it comes to coaches coming and going is an understandable attitude to take.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I am not going to get too excited over the beginning of the Shanahan era just yet, like many of you, I will wait to see the product on the field. However, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect Shanahan to work this team into a wild card berth next year.
The Super Bowl (or even contending for one) is several years (and several players) away from becoming a reality, but perrenial contention for the NFC East should be an immediate reality.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

shanaMAN!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651747]Let's just call it the debbie downer thread, lol, j/k[/quote] Is anyone else worried that we'll see an improved team this year, with around 7 to 9 wins, that will be looking great for the future only to have a lock out over the labor agreement that cancels the 2011 season?

[IMG]http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73822&d=1258470173[/IMG]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;651778]i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.[/quote]

Exactly...funny how people dont mention the name Snyder in their complaining, he has proven to be one of two common denamenators in steady decline of this franchise and one of the worst owners in all of sports. Its ok to say it, by not it almost a defense to him. Dont understand it.

But Im thrilled at this point and like it was mentioned before above, "this change feels different" and I think Danny Boy has finally "got it": he knows nothing about football and building a championship team.

Bruce Allen is a class act, Im thrilled and actually proud. This is the best organizational move since hiring Joe Gibbs the first time. HTTR

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Listening to the press conference, it did seem like Shanahan hired Allen, and not the other way around. If that's the case, we have even more reason for skepticism, because a deliberate effort was made to make us think it was the other way around. If we're being lied to about that, who knows what else we're being lied to about.

I also thought the comparison to gibbs-bethard-cooke was interesting. the impression i got (and this could just be my skepticism coloring my perception) was that Snyder would "mediate" between Allen and Shanahan. Snyder can't "mediate" if he's not at "the table." And why would he be at the table, if he's not going to remain very hands-on in all football matters?

I have no doubt that Shanahan's contract garauntees him total control. But how long will Snyder honor that?

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=GoSkins!;651748]Every time a thread like this is started, Sally Jenkins gets new wings.[/quote]

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. I just read her article and was thinking how miserable it must be to be her and look at everything through crap covered glasses.

This is where I see this hire as different from any other one in the past:

-Schottenheimer had stated 3 weeks prior to his hiring that he could never work for someone like Snyder. He was at the point where his legacy as a coach was still very much in question and it seemed (and was noted by Peter King at the time) almost like a money grab. Snyder made him the highest paid coach in the league and he came in trying to make it all about Marty. I remember George Michael a few months back saying that on the 1st day of camp he knew it wasn't going to work. Marty rubbed everyone the wrong way and there was no buffer (more on that in a minute) so the ego clash was immediate and brutal. He took the dictatorial role too seriously (alarms on the doors at camp?) and lost the team. Sure he got them back but it was too late in Dan's eyes.

-Spurrier and Shanahan have no comparison. Little did we know how vastly underprepared Spurrier was to being an NFL coach.

-Gibbs, for as much as we love him around these parts, was also vastly unprepared to be an NFL coach in the 2000's when he was hired. He was away from the game for too long, didn't surround himself with contemporary coaches and it took him a while to get his sea legs. Let's not forget the influence of Vincenzo Ceratto either.

-Zorn, see Spurrier.

With Shanahan, we're getting one of the most respected and accomplished coaches active in the league today, active being a key word!! Although he was out of the league he was never away from the league. He's probably more prepared now than he was while he was coaching because he could focus on 32 teams each week rather than 2. In addition he brings with him one of the hot young coordinators (as opposed to Jack Burns) to run the offense. He's got the buffer in Bruce Allen that Marty lacked. He's not coaching to establish a legacy, he's trying to extend a legacy so rather than overcompensating for past failures (like Marty), he's going to be able to build on what's worked in the past. He also brings the immediate respect of players (unlike Spurrier and Zorn) who have to prove everything to him instead of vice versa.

I think it's going to be a process to turn us into winners but I am assured that it will happen. I don't expect a 10 or 11 win season next year but wouldn't be shocked by it either. For the first time in nearly 20 years we can unequivocally say we've got the best coach in the division, now it's time to get the tools for him to go to work!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;651778]i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.[/quote]

Shanahan was not my first choice of coaches and I fear that it will be difficult for us to win Super Bowls, etc. We did not become the Patriots or Colts overnight.

But I do not think that Allen and Shanny would be here unless Snyder has had a sincere change of heart and is going to sincerely act on that change. So we are, indeed, being run by professionals, and that is a major step up.

It will be a lot harder now for fans of other teams to make us the butt of jokes.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;651778]i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.[/quote]

There are some who are wishing for a little more. Some believe there is another piece than needs to be added to this puzzle. I say that because there are highly skilled and knowledgeable NFL people who have repeatedly questioned both Allen and Shanahan's record when it comes to personnel selection. That appears to be basically the only real area of concern and it's something I think Redskin fans are going to be monitoring very closely as we move foreward towards the draft and free agency. They're going to want to know just what type decisions are going to be made where player personnel are concerned, and if (based on the record of these two men) are they going to be the right people to make those decisions. We shall surely see.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;651779]Is anyone else worried that we'll see an improved team this year, with around 7 to 9 wins, that will be looking great for the future only to have a lock out over the labor agreement that cancels the 2011 season?

[IMG]http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73822&d=1258470173[/IMG][/quote]

2011 strike shortened? it's destiny Skins SB Champs for 2011-12 season!

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

Bolded the important points. Nothing mind-blowing here, other than the fact that Gibbs beleives Snyder will step back (for now).

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/07/gibbs-told-shanahan-that-snyder-wont-interfere/]Gibbs told Shanahan that Snyder won't interfere | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

[quote][B]Gibbs told Shanahan that Snyder won't interfere[/B]
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 7, 2010 9:40 AM ET

New Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan has final say over all football decisions. But can Shanahan be sure that owner Daniel Snyder won't meddle?

Shanahan says he feels confident that Snyder will support him in every way -- including getting out of the way -- and that he feels that way in part because of a conversation he had with former Redskins coach Joe Gibbs.

"All I can tell you is what Joe Gibbs said to me," Shanahan said on SIRIUS XM's Mad Dog Radio. "He said, 'Mike, you're going to get the best owner in sports.' He said, 'I've never met a guy more positive. He's got so much passion for the Redskins. He's loyal. He grew up with them. He wants to win. He's going to give you every opportunity to be successful.'

[B]"I've known Joe for over 20 years. He said, 'He will not interfere at all. All he will do is give you support.' When Joe Gibbs tells me that, a guy that I've admired, I think you can put that in the bank."[/B]

Those comments echo what Shanahan said at his introductory press conference, and the idea that Shanahan is running things was one of the central themes of the press conference -- to the point that Snyder stayed in the back didn't take part in the press conference at all.

[B]Whether Snyder can continue to remain in the background remains to be seen. But for now, the Redskins are Shanahan's show.[/B]
[/quote]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

As a head coach, I have no concerns really about Mike Shanahan. And I'm beyond giddy about Kyle Shanahan. As an organizational leader, you won't find many better than Bruce Allen.

As evaluators of talent, I'm moderately satisfied with Shanahan and Allen.

Where I have some concern is with how the team will be put together personnel wise. Allen and Shanahan both know talent when they see it, but both have a tendency sometimes to overvalue talent or, more often, realize that the talent may not match the value they're giving it but take the risk anyway. Shanahan especially is a high-risk, high-reward kind of guy. I'm interested to see how the team is "reloaded" this off-season but I guarantee there will be at least one or two serious head scratchers.

And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, or maybe in another, this is not the same situation as Marty. Not at all.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651762]Peter King and Randy Cross this morning were talking about the OL on NFL radio, and they were discussing the fact that it doesn't take as long to get the zone blocking scheme up and running effectively over man schemes. I guess because it's more scheme over talent.[/quote]We've been zone scheme since 2008. We just don't have a whole lot of zone-scheme players outside of Heyer, and I think that really hurt the running game this year.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651786]Listening to the press conference, it did seem like Shanahan hired Allen, and not the other way around. If that's the case, we have even more reason for skepticism, because a deliberate effort was made to make us think it was the other way around. If we're being lied to about that, who knows what else we're being lied to about.

I also thought the comparison to gibbs-bethard-cooke was interesting. the impression i got (and this could just be my skepticism coloring my perception) was that Snyder would "mediate" between Allen and Shanahan. Snyder can't "mediate" if he's not at "the table." And why would he be at the table, if he's not going to remain very hands-on in all football matters?

I have no doubt that Shanahan's contract garauntees him total control. But how long will Snyder honor that?[/quote]

What gave you the impression that Snyder would be mediating anything?

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;651782]Exactly...funny how people dont mention the name Snyder in their complaining, he has proven to be one of two common denamenators in steady decline of this franchise and [B]one of the worst owners in all of sports.[/B] Its ok to say it, by not it almost a defense to him. Dont understand it.

But Im thrilled at this point and like it was mentioned before above, "this change feels different" and I think Danny Boy has finally "got it": he knows nothing about football and building a championship team.

Bruce Allen is a class act, Im thrilled and actually proud. This is the best organizational move since hiring Joe Gibbs the first time. HTTR[/quote]

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;651799]As a head coach, I have no concerns really about Mike Shanahan. And I'm beyond giddy about Kyle Shanahan. [B]As an organizational leader, you won't find many better than Bruce Allen.[/B]
As evaluators of talent, I'm moderately satisfied with Shanahan and Allen.

Where I have some concern is with how the team will be put together personnel wise. Allen and Shanahan both know talent when they see it, but both have a tendency sometimes to overvalue talent or, more often, realize that the talent may not match the value they're giving it but take the risk anyway. Shanahan especially is a high-risk, high-reward kind of guy. I'm interested to see how the team is "reloaded" this off-season but I guarantee there will be at least one or two serious head scratchers.

And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, or maybe in another, this is not the same situation as Marty. Not at all.[/quote]

On the bolded point, i couldnt agree more. i listened to the press conference again on my way to work this morning. As Allen was speaking, i accidently hit the touch screen on my phone in just the wrong spot and the vinny cerrato/jimmy clausen interview started playing. The sound of Vinnys voice made me cringe. If I had not been at a stop light, i could very possibly have gotten into a wreck and died. the contrast between the two men could not be any more severe. I don't really beleive Allen is any better of a personnel guy than Vinny, but his leadership qualities are lightyears ahead of his predecessor. This brings me to the rest of your post...

which i also agree with completely. I think the most crucial factor to the success or failure of the shanahan regime will be whether we hire/retain the best scouts, personnel guys, etc. in our front office. if they appropriately
"narrow shanahan's shopping list," then we should be ok. in the short-term, we should be drafting/signing lots of linemen in, which are generally lower risk positions.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651802]What gave you the impression that Snyder would be mediating anything?[/quote]

During the press conference, Shanahan was asked (I beleive by Jason Reid but i'm not sure) if the organizational structure now was similar to how it operated with Gibbs, Bethard, and Cooke, with Cooke serving as mediator. Shanahan excitedly said "I would say that's a good comparison right there."

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

As for Snyder's involvement, I think some people have a really naive expectation of how involved he should be. The guy is the owner of the team. He's not some dude from Kentucky posting on a message board about the Redskins. I think people expect him to be as involved with the team as any of us.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

I think the minute Snyder tries to take back any power is when everything will fall apart. I don't see Shanahan or Allen going for that at all.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Paintrain;651806]Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant][/quote]

Nice post. Also, Snyder (it shouldn't be forgotten) has spent 10 years as the owner. He may not know much more about Xs and Os than when he bought the team-though I suspect he does, but he definitely has more knowledge of the NFL than any of us and than he did when he first bought the team.

But anyway, not a fan of hyperbole either.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651810]During the press conference, Shanahan was asked (I beleive by Jason Reid but i'm not sure) if the organizational structure now was similar to how it operated with Gibbs, Bethard, and Cooke, with Cooke serving as mediator. Shanahan excitedly said "I would say that's a good comparison right there."[/quote]

I can't listen to the audio but this is from the transcript

[B][quote] [/B]
[B]On if there are similarities between the new organizational dynamic and what existed between former owner Jack Kent Cooke, former general manager Bobby Beathard and former head coach Joe Gibbs:[/B]

"I would say that's a good comparison right there. I was lucky enough when I was an assistant coach [with Denver] in 1986 to come out here with Coach [Gibbs]. I was talking to Joe Bugel a little while ago and with the whole crew that used to be here. We came here for three days and we just talked about the NFC East and the AFC West. And we both went to the Super Bowl that year. I got a chance to get to know Joe [Gibbs], as well as the other coaches, and we've had relationships since then. That's what you want to do. As I've mentioned before, you want to get the best you can get at every position and I believe Bruce [Allen] is the best at what he does. I want people to challenge me, assistant coaches as well as personnel people. We're going to get the best guy in charge of college, the best guy in charge of pro and hopefully together we can do something special."

[B][/quote][/B]

No mention of any sort of mediating, and he only mentions Allen. Reid may have asked about it, but MS doesn't specifically address that aspect.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;651812]As for Snyder's involvement, I think some people have a really naive expectation of how involved he should be. The guy is the owner of the team. He's not some dude from Kentucky posting on a message board about the Redskins. I think people expect him to be as involved with the team as any of us.[/quote]

Do you see him having any say in personnel decisions anymore?

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;651762]Peter King and Randy Cross this morning were talking about the OL on NFL radio, and they were discussing the fact that it doesn't take as long to get the zone blocking scheme up and running effectively over man schemes. I guess because it's more scheme over talent.[/quote]

True, but Shanahan's zone blocking scheme relies on quickness and athleticism, something we're lacking along the line.

Heyer's slow, Randy Thomas is older and losing quickness, Mike Williams (if he plays G) is still built to be a masher as opposed to an athletic type, Rabach is still alright, Dockery is more of a drive blocker but athletic enough I guess, and Levi Jones is alright but not good enough to be the long-term answer at LT.

The scheme may go in quickly, but still won't be truly effective until we get the guys who can execute it.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;651818]True, but Shanahan's zone blocking scheme relies on quickness and athleticism, something we're lacking along the line.

Heyer's slow, Randy Thomas is older and losing quickness, Mike Williams (if he plays G) is still built to be a masher as opposed to an athletic type, Rabach is still alright, Dockery is more of a drive blocker but athletic enough I guess, and Levi Jones is alright but not good enough to be the long-term answer at LT.

The scheme may go in quickly, but still won't be truly effective until we get the guys who can execute it.[/quote]

Obviously we need new guys in here, I wasn't clear in saying that. The point King/Cross were trying to make was with Shanahan's system we can expect a quicker turnaround than with other schemes.

Re: The Tempered Expectations Thread
 

[quote=Paintrain;651792]Lol, I was thinking the same thing. I just read her article and was thinking how miserable it must be to be her and look at everything through crap covered glasses.

This is where I see this hire as different from any other one in the past:

-Schottenheimer had stated 3 weeks prior to his hiring that he could never work for someone like Snyder. He was at the point where his legacy as a coach was still very much in question and it seemed (and was noted by Peter King at the time) almost like a money grab. Snyder made him the highest paid coach in the league and he came in trying to make it all about Marty. I remember George Michael a few months back saying that on the 1st day of camp he knew it wasn't going to work. Marty rubbed everyone the wrong way and there was no buffer (more on that in a minute) so the ego clash was immediate and brutal. He took the dictatorial role too seriously (alarms on the doors at camp?) and lost the team. Sure he got them back but it was too late in Dan's eyes.

-Spurrier and Shanahan have no comparison. Little did we know how vastly underprepared Spurrier was to being an NFL coach.

-Gibbs, for as much as we love him around these parts, was also vastly unprepared to be an NFL coach in the 2000's when he was hired. He was away from the game for too long, didn't surround himself with contemporary coaches and it took him a while to get his sea legs. Let's not forget the influence of Vincenzo Ceratto either.

-Zorn, see Spurrier.

With Shanahan, we're getting one of the most respected and accomplished coaches active in the league today, active being a key word!! Although he was out of the league he was never away from the league. He's probably more prepared now than he was while he was coaching because he could focus on 32 teams each week rather than 2. In addition he brings with him one of the hot young coordinators (as opposed to Jack Burns) to run the offense. He's got the buffer in Bruce Allen that Marty lacked. He's not coaching to establish a legacy, he's trying to extend a legacy so rather than overcompensating for past failures (like Marty), he's going to be able to build on what's worked in the past. He also brings the immediate respect of players (unlike Spurrier and Zorn) who have to prove everything to him instead of vice versa.

I think it's going to be a process to turn us into winners but I am assured that it will happen. I don't expect a 10 or 11 win season next year but wouldn't be shocked by it either. For the first time in nearly 20 years we can unequivocally say we've got the best coach in the division, now it's time to get the tools for him to go to work![/quote]

Excellent, excellent post!