brett favre
 

i know everyone around here hates everything that comes with this guy but that has to be the gutsy play i've ever seen..he was beat up pretty bad and kept getting up. anyone see his post game conference? he looked like he had been punched in the face a few times..

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=johnwayne;658018]i know everyone around here hates everything that comes with this guy but that has to be the gutsy play i've ever seen..he was beat up pretty bad and kept getting up. anyone see his post game conference? he looked like he had been punched in the face a few times..[/quote]



that has to be the gutsy play i've ever seen......you obviously weren't watching the Skins games to closely this past season, because JC went through what Mr. Farve went through for 1 game almost every Sunday. It was gutsy play, but not the gutsies I've ever seen, because I saw JC do it Sunday after Sunday.

Re: brett favre
 

maybe...gutsiest performance ever?

I'm not looking forward to the 3 month ESPN circus of whether or not he is going to play next year or not.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=dgw090767;658020]that has to be the gutsy play i've ever seen......you obviously weren't watching the Skins games to closely this past season, because JC went through what Mr. Farve went through for 1 game almost every Sunday. It was gutsy play, but not the gutsies I've ever seen, because I saw JC do it Sunday after Sunday.[/quote]

LMFAO if you think Campbell deserves a comparison to Favre. Almost everytime Jason took a hard hit, Collins would come in. Look at that game where he bruised his chest...Campbell might be tough, but there is no way at this point in his career he can be compared with Favre.

And 1 game for Mr. Favre? Have you been paying attention? Brett has been getting his shit pounded like that for 19 seasons...he's tough and has never missed a game. It remains seen if anyone will ever break his streak...

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658025]LMFAO if you think Campbell deserves a comparison to Favre. Almost everytime Jason took a hard hit, Collins would come in. Look at that game where he bruised his chest...Campbell might be tough, but there is no way at this point in his career he can be compared with Favre.

And 1 game for Mr. Favre? Have you been paying attention? Brett has been getting his shit pounded like that for 19 seasons...he's tough and has never missed a game. It remains seen if anyone will ever break his streak...[/quote]

Unlike our team, Favre had a very good offensive line that kept him upright almost the whole season. I think the comparison comes from the fact that [B]this season[/B], JC had several games where he got beat up just like how Favre did yesterday.

Re: brett favre
 

Gutsy game in that he took hits and didn't quit, but this is his third consecutive playoff loss going back to that Eagles game in which he threw an inscrutable interception to end the season. If we are talking legacy, and how can we not at this point, then we have to also mention what has been a pattern of making catastrophic mistakes in the biggest moments. Had he tucked that ball in and ran it the Vikings would probably be getting ready for the Superbowl right now.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=johnwayne;658018]i know everyone around here hates everything that comes with this guy but that has to be the gutsy play i've ever seen..he was beat up pretty bad and kept getting up. anyone see his post game conference? he looked like he had been punched in the face a few times..[/quote]

Gutsy??? Nahh! He's not John Wayne!

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=djnemo65;658052]Gutsy game in that he took hits and didn't quit, but this is his third consecutive playoff loss going back to that Eagles game in which he threw an inscrutable interception to end the season. If we are talking legacy, and how can we not at this point, then we have to also mention what has been a pattern of making catastrophic mistakes in the biggest moments. Had he tucked that ball in and ran it the Vikings would probably be getting ready for the Superbowl right now.[/quote]

Right on. He who lives by the Favre, dies by the Favre.

Re: brett favre
 

Favre, no doubt is one of the greatest quarterbacks to the play the game. I honestly believed that he'd make a play to get Longwell in position to kick a FG at the end of regulation. He's had a gutsy career and my bet is that it's not over. He had a career year and was two plays away (a 10 yard completion or a scramble to set up the FG) from the Super Bowl.

I just hope he announces sooner than later. I think everyone hates how Sportscenter, among others, milk the minutia of these stories with daily and even hourly coverage.

Re: brett favre
 

I was impressed by his toughness last night. I think he'll be back...he can't end it all that way (bad decision).

He'll be back and still playing as well as this year. For most of the season, he had eliminated those mistakes from just flinging the ball around like in the past, it was his best season ever...but for one play, his old tendencies came back to haunt him...BIG TIME.

I was rooting for the Vikings and that was a painful way to lose.

Re: brett favre
 

While I applaud Favre for all his many accomplishments through the years, I find the idea of a double standard for him and the rest of the team rather disconcerting for the team as a whole. Some payers may resist a standard for Favre so different than the one they're expected to embrace. Favre is the ordained leader of that team but he does not at this stage of his career exhibit leadership pactices.

Re: brett favre
 

I don't think Favre cost them the game. The many fumbles cost them the game. Sure, he made a bad mistake but there were a # of errors that led them to that point. He got beat up pretty bad last night.

If he wants to play, more power to him. The Vikes have got a real good team and could make it back to the Championship next year.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Longtimefan;658081]While I applaud Favre for all his many accomplishments through the years, I find the idea of a double standard for him and the rest of the team rather disconcerting for the team as a whole. Some payers may resist a standard for Favre so different than the one they're expected to embrace. Favre is the ordained leader of that team but he does not at this stage of his career exhibit leadership pactices.[/quote]

He should retire for once and for all, he might be a great QB, but he makes boneheaded decisions at critical moments. If he comes back he just might have a three peat in interceptions in the divisional playoffs (GB, Minn., ??)

Re: brett favre
 

I hope he comes back, he proved this year he can still play at a very high level.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;658083]He should retire for once and for all, he might be a great QB, but he makes boneheaded decisions at critical moments. If he comes back he just might have a three peat in interceptions in the divisional playoffs (GB, Minn., ??)[/quote]

I agree, without question there have been too many (as you described them) bone-headed plays at critical times and espically in post-season play when your game should be at it's finest.

I don't question his stats, or even if he can still play the game, it's more about his decision making process when he's not playing the game, and the way he sets himself apart from those he's dependent upon for whatever success he's about to acheive.

Re: brett favre
 

When i think of Bret Favre, i imagine how i would feel if Darrell Green spent his last two years with the Dallas Cowboys... I usually black out and wake up with something in the room smashed to bits and dried up snot under my nose. I'm sorry, but i just can't get over what he did. I'm all about loyalty and the fans. Right or wrong, the fans are the reason you get paid to play the best game ever made. If he's better than Aaron Rogers, then he should've BEAT Aaron Rogers and reclaimed the starting spot that HE GAVE UP and took the team that stood by him all that time. Art Monk was a Jet too, yeah, but he didn't go to the Cowboys after that! I was giggling my butt off when Suisam missed those fieldgoals in the CowGirl/Vikings playoff game!

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;658083]He should retire for once and for all, he might be a great QB, but he makes boneheaded decisions at critical moments. If he comes back he just might have a three peat in interceptions in the divisional playoffs (GB, Minn., ??)[/quote]Great point.
I was rooting for the Saints to beat the Vikes [B]almost[/B] as much as I was rooting for the Vikes to beat Dall-ass. I've had enough Favre. Had the Vikes won, it would've been two weeks of "All-Favre, All-the-time". At this point the guy is a self-serving egomanic. The game isn't all about him, there are 45+ other guys on the roster who are doing everything they can to win as well. He did a number on GB, did a number on the Jets, and who knows how he'll leave the Vikes this off-season....will he return, won't he, will we know before training camp? The guy was fun to watch.....up until about 4 years ago. The act is old, end the damn show.

I also hope at the owners meetings they take out some of the numby-pamby rules to protect the QBs. This whole "driving into the ground" thing is completely subjective except in the most severe cases (the OL shouldn't be letting the DL get clean shots on the QB anyway). The hand to the head thing is another sissy rule that is only an issue in the most severe cases. If a player is taking a blatant cheap shot, hit him with an unsportsmanlike and throw him out. If a DL is working his hind-quarters off to get to the QB and his hand grazes the QB's helmet or he makes a solid tackle on the QB and drives him to the ground (it's proper technique anyway), let it go. Don't turn the NFL into the NBA.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658087]When i think of Bret Favre, i imagine how i would feel if Darrell Green spent his last two years with the Dallas Cowboys... I usually black out and wake up with something in the room smashed to bits and dried up snot under my nose. I'm sorry, but i just can't get over what he did. I'm all about loyalty and the fans. Right or wrong, the fans are the reason you get paid to play the best game ever made. If he's better than Aaron Rogers, then he should've BEAT Aaron Rogers and reclaimed the starting spot that HE GAVE UP and took the team that stood by him all that time. Art Monk was a Jet too, yeah, but he didn't go to the Cowboys after that! I was giggling my butt off when Suisam missed those fieldgoals in the CowGirl/Vikings playoff game![/quote]

Dude...where have you been? The Packers told Favre they didn't want him back. He would have come back to the Pack if management hadn't basically told him to take a hike. The also didn't want him playing in the division, which is why he went to the Jets last year.

As for his legacy, say what you want, the Vikings aren't in that game without Favre. His passing numbers this year were sick, and the Vikes went from being a running team to a passing team this year due to a decline of their o-line and running back play. He made a bad throw...one that he wouldn't of had to make if 3 different players other than him hadn't fumbled the ball during the game.

I am no Favre apologist...he makes some stupid throws at times, but you can't tell me he isn't one of the top 5 qb's in the game right now, even at 40...look at his numbers, look at the team wins. And for those claiming he isn't a leader, go talk to his players in Minnesota right now and I'd bet a months salary they'd give a different story.

Re: brett favre
 

I agree that there should be some rule changes which brings me to this question that maybe someone can help me with. I thought after Brady got hit low and was injured a year or two ago, the rules were changed so that it was illegal to hit a QB around the knee area. In fact I've seen it enforced even when it was impossible for the defender to stop. Favre was clearly hit low on the sack he appeared to get hurt on and the defender was clearly not trying to hold up. There was no flag, what am I missing?

Re: brett favre
 

Yeah...i agree with Mc2Guy...Ted Thompson and the Packers basically told Brett to go get F*cked in 2008....so he had to play with the jets because he wanted to play still

Re: brett favre
 

I think Favre is a top 3 qb in NFL history.. And yes he should come back

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Mattyk;658084]I hope he comes back, he proved this year he can still play at a very high level.[/quote]

I agree. And for those of you criticizing Favre for the INT (and those in previous years), all i have to say to you is this:

1) Minnesota wouldn't have even made the playoffs with Tavaris or Sage as thier QB. AP has been a non-factor most of the year. Favre pretty much carried the team on his back all year.

2) Favre didnt lose the game with his INT. The Vikings defense and special teams lost the game by allowing the saints to start from their own 40 in OT and drive all the way to the vikings 30 to give the Saints an easy FG.

3) Favres had what: 8-9 INTs compared to almost 40 TDs all season (including playoffs). what more do you want from a QB?

4) Favre didn't lose the game - the vikings offense as a whole lost the game for putting the ball on the ground 6 times. The only reason the Vikings were even in this game despite the turnovers was Favre.

5) The Vikings O-line was HORRIBLE. COMPLETELY. UTTERLY. HORRIBLE. The saints front 7 is not that good. Even our horrid O-line did a better job of protecting Campbell than the Vikings' did protecting Favre.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;658115]I agree. And for those of you criticizing Favre for the INT (and those in previous years), all i have to say to you is this:

1) Minnesota wouldn't have even made the playoffs with Tavaris or Sage as thier QB. AP has been a non-factor most of the year. Favre pretty much carried the team on his back all year.

2) Favre didnt lose the game with his INT. The Vikings defense and special teams lost the game by allowing the saints to start from their own 40 in OT and drive all the way to the vikings 30 to give the Saints an easy FG.

3) Favres had what: 8-9 INTs compared to almost 40 TDs all season (including playoffs). what more do you want from a QB?

4) Favre didn't lose the game - the vikings offense as a whole lost the game for putting the ball on the ground 6 times. The only reason the Vikings were even in this game despite the turnovers was Favre.[/quote]

I agree with everything you say, and yet I also see the stat that Favre's last throw with the Packers, Jets, and (so far) the Vikings were INT's. This last pass, he should have and could have pulled it down, or thrown it away. It definitely is a case of a guy wanting to win so bad he forgets what got him in the game this year. To me it's a shame that such a great career gets marred by these plays.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=djnemo65;658052]Gutsy game in that he took hits and didn't quit, but this is his third consecutive playoff loss going back to that Eagles game in which he threw an inscrutable interception to end the season. If we are talking legacy, and how can we not at this point, then we have to also mention what has been a pattern of making catastrophic mistakes in the biggest moments. Had he tucked that ball in and ran it the Vikings would probably be getting ready for the Superbowl right now.[/quote]
And maybe if his supporting cast could have held on to the ball they would have had an easy win.

Re: brett favre
 

thats the whole thing....you cant fumble the ball that much and still win.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658107]Yeah...i agree with Mc2Guy...Ted Thompson and the Packers basically told Brett to go get F*cked in 2008....so he had to play with the jets because he wanted to play still[/quote]Don't believe the Favre-spin on the whole situation. The guy expected GB to bend over and kiss his ass....after he retired, the draft went by and he said he was staying retired, off-season conditioning goes by and he says he's staying retired.....Then July rolls around (conveniently after off-season conditioning) and now he wants to be the unconditional starter or an unconditional release....F-Favre, give me a break.

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2008-07-12-favre-update_N.htm"]Thompson won't cut Favre, but GM deflects blame in ordeal - USATODAY.com[/URL]

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/04/04/favre.denial/index.html"]SI.com - NFL - Former Packers QB Brett Favre not considering comeback - Friday April 4, 2008 10:54AM[/URL]

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;658114]I think Favre is a top 3 qb in NFL history.. And yes he should come back[/quote]So if you're the GM of a team and you can have ANY all-time great, in his prime, which of these would you take Favre instead of:

Sammy Baugh
Sonny Jurgensen
Joe Montana
Steve Young
John Elway
Johnny Unitas
Dan Mario
Dan Fouts
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Troy Aikman
Otto Graham
Bart Starr
Jim Kelly

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;658126]So if you're the GM of a team and you can have ANY all-time great, in his prime, which of these would you take Favre instead of:

Sammy Baugh
Sonny Jurgensen
Joe Montana
Steve Young
John Elway
Johnny Unitas
Dan Mario
Dan Fouts
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Troy Aikman
Otto Graham
Bart Starr
Jim Kelly[/quote]


If were building a modern-era team (which would exlude Unitas, Graham, Baugh, and maybe Starr), I'd put him in front of all of them except Manning, Young, and Montana, and tied with Marino. One factor you must consider is durability. Do I want the guy who will give me the single greatest game? (Warner could qualify for that one). Or do I want the guy who will give me the greatest decade? If the latter, you have to give more credit for Favre's durability and consistently high-level of play over a long period.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;658123]Don't believe the Favre-spin on the whole situation. The guy expected GB to bend over and kiss his ass....after he retired, the draft went by and he said he was staying retired, off-season conditioning goes by and he says he's staying retired.....Then July rolls around (conveniently after off-season conditioning) and now he wants to be the unconditional starter or an unconditional release....F-Favre, give me a break.

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2008-07-12-favre-update_N.htm"]Thompson won't cut Favre, but GM deflects blame in ordeal - USATODAY.com[/URL]

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/04/04/favre.denial/index.html"]SI.com - NFL - Former Packers QB Brett Favre not considering comeback - Friday April 4, 2008 10:54AM[/URL][/quote]

That's when my sympathy for Favre plummeted. Everyone else could understand that the Packers had to consider their future, Rodgers was approaching possible free agency, etc. But Favre couldn't.

It must have been hard for Unitas to be let go so that he had to play in San Diego. It must have been hard for Montana to pass the torch in San Fran and move on to KC. But neither of those guys acted like a big entitled baby, which was Favre's response.

Re: brett favre
 

Yeah I kinda find it hard to fault GB for wanting to know whether their starting QB was coming back or not so they could plan for the upcoming season. It got to be pretty silly.

Re: brett favre
 

He needs to get a life. This guy has blown it in the big games for awhile now. I mean it has been what, like 14 years since his SB victory? He wants to go out a winner, that is cool, but sometimes you just need to hang it up. As for the Vikes, they better draft a QB in May or they are screwed when Favre does decide to retire. Tavaris Jackson made Gus Frerotte look good!!!!!!!

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Lotus;658134][B]That's when my sympathy for Favre plummeted[/B]. Everyone else could understand that the Packers had to consider their future, Rodgers was approaching possible free agency, etc. But Favre couldn't.

It must have been hard for Unitas to be let go so that he had to play in San Diego. It must have been hard for Montana to pass the torch in San Fran and move on to KC. But neither of those guys acted like a big entitled baby, which was Favre's response.[/quote]

I'm decidedly in this camp as well, and I'm actually surprised at the level of sympathy he's generated for what happened with the Packers '08 season. That story begins with Favre informing the Packers that he was through playing football, and somehow the Packers' management ultimately gets faulted for having believed him. On few other occasions have I felt more convinced of contrived humility than when Favre tearfully proclaimed during his first retirement press conference that he hoped the Green Bay Packers organization believed that every dime they spent on him was worth it (as if the organization's, and the sports world's, glorification of his play was already pervasively evident--was he so utterly humble that he wanted us to believe he didn't notice it?!). I was even more confident of my first impression when only a few months later he orchestrated that ridiculous dramatic return to Green Bay, what with the preannounced landing at the airport and the arrival at Lambeau Field for the Family Night event, with the obvious aim to exploit the adoration that he tried to seem oblivious to in that retirement press conference in the hope that the organization's management would be public-pressured in to bending to his will. They didn't. Damn good for them.

I similarly was rooting against Favre last night. I understand that this thread is about his play, and yes, I agree, he played his heart out. But I'm still happy the egomaniacal Favre lost.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Mc2guy;658131]If were building a modern-era team (which would exlude Unitas, Graham, Baugh, and maybe Starr), I'd put him in front of all of them except Manning, Young, and Montana, and tied with Marino. One factor you must consider is durability. Do I want the guy who will give me the single greatest game? (Warner could qualify for that one). Or do I want the guy who will give me the greatest decade? If the latter, you have to give more credit for Favre's durability and consistently high-level of play over a long period.[/quote]You said Favre was top 3 all-time. You cannot take out Unitas (3 championships), Graham (7 championships), Baugh (greatest player to ever play, 2 championships), and Starr (5 championships). These guys played in the pre-pass interference days when DBs could basically hold a WR all the way downfield.

You must be kidding if you would take Favre over; Elway (5 SB appearances, 2 rings), Brady (3 rings), Aikman (3 rings) and Jim Kelly (4 straight SB appearances)

EDIT: At the end of the day being a QB is more than just passing numbers, it's being a leader of men. And being a leader means you put your ego on the back burner for the sake of your teammates. Make the 5 yd pass when necessary, run and slide when necessary, be a good mentor and backup as your career winds down, the goal is for the team to win the game, not you (Favre) make the winning play to win the game. Favre's ego is what has cost his teams over the last few years.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;658144]You said Favre was top 3 all-time. You cannot take out Unitas (3 championships), Graham (7 championships), Baugh (greatest player to ever play, 2 championships), and Starr (5 championships). These guys played in the pre-pass interference days when DBs could basically hold a WR all the way downfield.

You must be kidding if you would take Favre over; Elway (5 SB appearances, 2 rings), Brady (3 rings), Aikman (3 rings) and Jim Kelly (4 straight SB appearances)

EDIT: At the end of the day being a QB is more than just passing numbers, it's being a leader of men. And being a leader means you put your ego on the back burner for the sake of your teammates. Make the 5 yd pass when necessary, run and slide when necessary, be a good mentor and backup as your career winds down, the goal is for the team to win the game, not you (Favre) make the winning play to win the game. Favre's ego is what has cost his teams over the last few years.[/quote]


First, I didn't say Favre was all time top 3...another poster did. I said his play THIS year was top 5 in the league.

Second, if you want to make this a "best of all time" thread, you're going to have define "best". Is it stats, wins, championships, intangibles? You're never going to get everyone to agree on the definition of "best." That's why we have forums for debate.

BTW, I am on record in this forum suggesting that Bart Starr is the greatest QB of all time by any measurement, statistical or otherwise. I still wouldn't pick him to run a modern offense over Favre...different era, different type of player. Does that mean he's "worse"? Of course not.

At the end of the day, the best measure of a player can be assessed in a myriad of ways. Football is entertainment after all, and I doubt many would say that Favre is not one of, if not the most entertaining to watch.

Here is the link from this discussion two years ago...FWIW, Manning would now be on my top ten list.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/22790-now-favre-officially-done-where-does-2.html#post429191[/url]

Re: brett favre
 

I'd take Favre over Jurgensen, Aikman, Kelly, Elway, Brady...and maybe Dan Fouts. But I would not take him over Tarkenton, plus anyone else on Slingin Sammy's list.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Mc2guy;658166]First, I didn't say Favre was all time top 3...another poster did. I said his play THIS year was top 5 in the league.[/quote]You responded and I assumed you were agreeing with skinsfaninok, my fault.

[quote]Second, if you want to make this a "best of all time" thread, you're going to have define "best". Is it stats, wins, championships, intangibles? You're never going to get everyone to agree on the definition of "best." That's why we have forums for debate.

BTW, I am on record in this forum suggesting that Bart Starr is the greatest QB of all time by any measurement, statistical or otherwise. I still wouldn't pick him to run a modern offense over Favre...different era, different type of player. Does that mean he's "worse"? Of course not.

At the end of the day, the best measure of a player can be assessed in a myriad of ways. Football is entertainment after all, and I doubt many would say that Favre is not one of, if not the most entertaining to watch.[/quote]The measurement is certainly not cut in stone. If I'm a GM building a team and I can pick any QB, I'm considering the best in each era. I make the assumption that these great players of earlier eras given access to the advances in sports training/nutrition/medicine/film study/coaching/rule changes/better field conditions, they would be just as great in the modern era.

If I'm a GM in that scenario I don't take Favre over any of the guys on my list.

Re: brett favre
 

As we've seen this year, Favre can still play at a high level but maybe this is a good time for him to retire. The Vikings almost made the playoffs and he put up great numbers but who knows if he/they can repeat and get to the big game (neither AZ or Pitt made it this year). It would be a shame to end a great career on a 8-8 record and miss the playoffs.

Re: brett favre
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;658126]So if you're the GM of a team and you can have ANY all-time great, in his prime, which of these would you take Favre instead of:

Sammy Baugh
Sonny Jurgensen
Joe Montana
Steve Young
John Elway
Johnny Unitas
Dan Mario
Dan Fouts
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Troy Aikman
Otto Graham
Bart Starr
Jim Kelly[/quote]
Montana , Elway , Marino , Staubach , Manning . I would add Sonny and Sammy < never saw Sammy , little of # 9. Fouts , I would have had to see him with less talent to put him above BF , same goes for Aikman .

Re: brett favre
 

Fouts and the Chargers of the 1980's were of comparable talent with the Packers of the mid to late 90's. I would go with Fouts over Brett just for the ego thing alone. Marino would be a good pick over Favre also. He was at Miami forever. That team went to shit after the 80's and Dan didn't have much to work with after that, either.

Re: brett favre
 

Maybe it was addressed and I'm sorry for being lazy and not looking, but it's painfully obvious that Brett loves the game. I like him a lot but am so damn tired of hearing how he's going to retire then not, then he is, then he's back.

Is there anyway a team could hire him as an offensive asst. or QB coach? Basically get him on a team as a coach in some capacity which still gives him a pay check and allows him to be a part of the team mentality but also keep him retired. ;)