Tebow or McCoy?
 

So Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy are the two college QBs most frequently mentioned as possible draft picks by the Redskins (other than Sam Bradford, of course)

Which of the two QBs would you rather have as the Redskins starting QB in 2011?

Where they get drafted doesn't matter, this is just about which of the two-assuming it was between these two-would you feel more comfortable with as your starting QB on opening day 2011.

I'm choosing 2011 to give these guys a year to develop at the NFL level. In this scenario, there's also no lockout

I don't have a clear winner in this race, but I'll give the slight edge to Colt McCoy (to piss off GMScud :) )

Note: The poll will be public

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Since I don't think Tebow is ever going to be a NFL QB I'll go with McCoy.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Don't like either, but I'll grudgingly say Tebow. The guy is tough as nails and is a great athlete.

I believe he's that one guy who can actually be a better NFL QB than he was in college.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

If both are available in the 2nd I would lean towards McCoy, especially if we're talking starting him at QB in 2011.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I picked Tebow basically with my heart. I just can't see him failing, there is some it factor about the guy.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

No Grossman???

No Colt B?


This poll is bogus!

[SIZE="1"]And so is my comment![/SIZE]

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=backrow;679543]No Grossman???

No Colt B?


This poll is bogus!

[/quote]

Agreed, and I can totally tell you're not kidding because theres no disclaimer.

Aside from that I like both from an intangible standpoint but Tebows intangbles make McCoy looks like a....serial jaywalker that hurls insults at old ladies.

I also like Tebows arm strength much better then McCoys. However Matty has a point in that McCoy would probably be more likely to start in 2011. My only problem with McCoy is he seemed to have made most of his throws into this little box and for all intents and purposes Shanhan's system seems to be a more downfield system, hence the interest in a guy like Grossman both last year and this year.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

My vote is for Tebow, I just think he is someone who is gonna be special. Plus I don't recall a "tough" game that McCoy actually took the team on his shoulders for a victory.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Neither one is my vote.

But since there is not a "none of the above" choice, I think that McCoy will have a better career as an NFL QB.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Chico23231, CRedskinsRule, diehardskin2982, FRPLG, Mattyk, Ruhskins, and SmootSmack are now all on enemies list.

On the other hand I now count freddyg12, mredskins, taylort, and tootergray34 among my brothers in arms.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;679552]Chico23231, CRedskinsRule, diehardskin2982, FRPLG, Mattyk, Ruhskins, and SmootSmack are now all on enemies list.

On the other hand I now count freddyg12, mredskins, taylort, and tootergray34 among my brothers in arms.[/quote]

I've been watching you dirtbag... expect, what you don't expect, when you don't expect it, and then keep expecting it until that day when shall have the final say and you shall have none!

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;679552]Chico23231, CRedskinsRule, diehardskin2982, FRPLG, Mattyk, Ruhskins, and SmootSmack are now all on enemies list.

On the other hand I now count freddyg12, mredskins, taylort, and tootergray34 among my brothers in arms.[/quote]

Reallllllll smart having me and Matty (and somehow not a mod FRPLG) on your enemies list.....reallllllll smart

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

While there are major questions as to whether either of these guys can ever be a starting QB in the NFL, I would absolutely pick Tebow for 2 reasons:

1) Intangibles; he has far more upside
2) If he busts as a starting QB, he would most definitely be able to help the team as a TE/HB/Emergency QB. He'd essentially be an offensive Lorenzo Alexander.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Even though i dont like left handed qb's i got to go with Tebow. Theres just something about him. And i know this poll is just about which qb would you rather start in 2011, but if neither work out at QB at least you have other options with Tebow. Hedges yourself a little bit.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;679552]Chico23231, CRedskinsRule, diehardskin2982, FRPLG, Mattyk, Ruhskins, and SmootSmack are now all on enemies list.

On the other hand I now count freddyg12, mredskins, taylort, and tootergray34 among my brothers in arms.[/quote]

Dude my vote was solely based on the fact I knew you were smitten with Tebow and since we disagree on everything I roled with McCoy.

Just kidding, but seriously I would even consider taking Colt over Clausen at this point. Tebow, if even being drafted by as a quarterback, probably isnt a legit 2nd round pick. Tebow to be successful is probably going to have to be drafted by the right team where he sits for a couple years, works on his mechanics, and learns to the system.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

C. Neither. Tebow is not going to make it as an NFL QB so there is no point in discussing him. I guess you're on the Tebow hype too. lol. McCoy reminds me so much of Heath Shuler it's scary. He simply doesn't have all the throws to make it as an NFL starter. Neither guy will be here starting. My guess is it's still going to be Jason Campbell cause there isn't anyone out there that is better.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I think McCoy is better suited for the offense that Shanhan and son bring to the table. Tebow would be more of a project.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;679554]Reallllllll smart having me and Matty (and somehow not a mod FRPLG) on your enemies list.....reallllllll smart[/quote]

I'm kinda surprised Jevan Snead isn't an option here. I guess you couldn't bear the thought of seeing him get one lonely vote, huh?

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;679553]I've been watching you dirtbag... expect, what you don't expect, when you don't expect it, and then keep expecting it until that day when shall have the final say and you shall have none![/quote]

My faith in the chosen one shall protect me. You on the other hand should know full well what to expect just pray the mighty Tebow makes it quick.

[quote=SmootSmack;679554]Reallllllll smart having me and Matty (and somehow not a mod FRPLG) on your enemies list.....reallllllll smart[/quote]

Still smarter then going against the chosen one. Tebow is the football savior, the great white hope, and whatever else his heart desires. All those Chuck Norris jokes were originally Tebow facts, but because his highness is so humble he decided to save the career of Chuck Norris.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;679544]Agreed, and I can totally tell you're not kidding because theres no disclaimer.

Aside from that I like both from an intangible standpoint but Tebows intangbles make McCoy looks like a....serial jaywalker that hurls insults at old ladies.

I also like Tebows arm strength much better then McCoys. However Matty has a point in that McCoy would probably be more likely to start in 2011. My only problem with McCoy is he seemed to have made most of his throws into this little box and for all intents and purposes Shanhan's system seems to be a more downfield system, hence the interest in a guy like Grossman both last year and this year.[/quote]



Dude! You missed my downsized comment about my own comments!

My sarcasm button was stuck in the on position!

At this time of year, prior to the NFL Draft, the board takes a mind of it's own in so many different directions. All reasoning takes a back seat. After the Draft, it's a little different. Then, we have a draft class and the UDFAs to talk about before TC begins.

This year, without the big name FA signees, many members are grasping a wishes and dreams.

Even the Insider updates from Jason Reid are mere fluff. I mean, who here really gives any props to Heyer? The man should have been gone with those 10 chopped. And the story about Vinnie being in love with Clausen, come on! Dude, he was in love with Clausen in 1st grade!

Even the younger Shanahan story is fluff. What else is he going to say, that Kyle Shanahan is garbage? No, it's all fluff. Not to take away from young Shanahan, he's good, don't get me wrong, but Jason R. is just trying to sell papers.

Big Mike getting better than last year?? Of course, dude was just trying to lose the weight last year. With the year of work, he should be working.

Edit: As a Gator fan, I certainly lean on what I've seen, but many here and on other forums like Colt. An even bigger majority want Bradford, and some have gone on record for Clausen. And then there is the Jevan Snead contingent. And that's not to say I want to draft Tebow. He'd be alright in the 3rd round, but, hey, we don't have a 3rd.

I just can't get into a poll on prospects who may well be be playing for another team in 30 days.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=backrow;679565]Dude! You missed my downsized comment about my own comments!

[/quote]

Lol, nope just purposely deleted it. Ha ha good times.

[quote=backrow;679565]

Even the younger Shanahan story is fluff. What else is he going to say, that Kyle Shanahan is garbage? No, it's all fluff. Not to take away from young Shanahan, he's good, don't get me wrong, but Jason R. is just trying to sell papers. [/quote]

Actually I thought that story was pretty good. I mean I knew Kyle was well respected and considered a prodigy but it was interesting to me to learn how he got to this point. Wish they got into more detail about him sticking up for Raheem Morris when they were out on the town.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Easily McCoy...I don't think tebow can get on the field fast enough for him to make sense for Shanny. As for McCoy...I am not a huge fan but I have read that if he projects as an NFL starter at all it is most likely in a West Coast system so he at least seems like a good fit for us.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;679557]While there are major questions as to whether either of these guys can ever be a starting QB in the NFL, I would absolutely pick Tebow for 2 reasons:

1) Intangibles; he has far more upside
2) If he busts as a starting QB, he would most definitely be able to help the team as a TE/HB/Emergency QB. He'd essentially be an offensive Lorenzo Alexander.[/quote]

See I don't get how he will be able to just go to another position. This isn't college ball. It's the NFL and there are guys out there that have been playing these positions their whole lives. His best bet is a 3rd string emergency QB and full time on teams. A guy who played QB at Va Tech has done it. Can't think of the guys name but he played on Jacksonville and Cleveland.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I don't know if there's a wrong answer here. You can't really go wrong with McCoy, as long as you're willing to work within what he does well. On Tebow, the development path might be longer, and less fruitful, and ultimately probably not worth a high 2nd round pick, but you give me one of these two on a reasonable contract and a top offensive tackle (this is the key part -- the OT pick can't fail), and I can win a whole bunch of games with them.

I have McCoy as a mid-first round value, so he's the poll answer for me.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Neither...but if I had to choose one it would be Tebow because I'm a gator fan and because he's tougher than mccoy

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I don't think either one will have much NFL success, however McCoy's my pick if I'm forced to take one of the two. McCoy has better fundys, better accuracy, not necessarily better staight line speed but better quickness and "escapability".

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

News flash!! Tim Tebow is NOT an NFL QB!! Yes, he is a great young man, YES he is tough as nails, YES he was a winner in College, but NO he will not be successful as a QB in the NFL. Guys please act like you actually know the game, there have been superstars in College that haven't even been able to step on an NFL field. None of the "experts" think this guy is an NFL QB and at the very best he is a 3 yr project before they would even trust him to get on the field.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;679563]I'm kinda surprised Jevan Snead isn't an option here. I guess you couldn't bear the thought of seeing him get one lonely vote, huh?[/quote]

I'd take Snead, Robinson, maybe even Skelton over either of them. But the options presented were only QBs that the Redskins have publicly acknowledged interest in.

There's been no public interest on the Redskins part in Snead, just rumors on Robinson, and while they've spoken multiple times with Skelton there's been nothing official about their interest.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Tebow. to me, McCoy is a Brennen clone. not sure if Tebow can make the transition. but the guy is a winner. there is something to be said for that

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Here's how they rate in key statistical categories compared to QBs drafted in the last five years, and QBs in this draft class:

[B]Tebow[/B]
QB Starts = Strong
Completion % = Above Average
TD Rate = Elite
INT Rate = Elite
Sack Rate = Average
Career variance = Above Average

[B]McCoy[/B]
QB Starts = Elite
Completion % = Elite
TD Rate = Above Average
INT Rate = Average
Sack Rate = Above Average
Career variance = Elite

For comparison

[B]Bradford[/B]
QB Starts = Average
Completion % = Strong
TD Rate = Elite
INT Rate = Elite
Sack Rate = Elite
Career variance = Below Average

[B]Clausen[/B]
QB Starts = Above Average
Completion % = Average
TD Rate = Average
INT Rate = Above Average
Sack Rate = Weak
Career variance = Average

Caviet: TD and INT rates usually don't translate well to the pros. My reasoning: team effects and offensive systems can generate a lot of TD/INT production that isn't really due to the quarterback.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

While I think that Tebow could end up being the bigger surprise I'll go with the proven. Don't care how much Tebow "wants it"

Whoever we get he better be good!

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Gtripp can you give performances ranges that define elite/strong/above average in the various categories?

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I'd take McCoy, we can't afford to gamble on either but I'd take a traditional QB that doesn't have to change his throwing motion on our dime and a media circus to follow, to me Tebow would be a wasted pick for us, if we were a team like the Colts, Patriots, Chargers teams that can afford a 2nd round gamble like that, then I'd be all for it..GO McCOY

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=Eknox;679598]I'd take McCoy, we can't afford to gamble on either but I'd take a traditional QB that doesn't have to change his throwing motion on our dime and a media circus to follow, to me Tebow would be a wasted pick for us, if we were a team like the Colts, Patriots, Chargers teams that can afford a 2nd round gamble like that, then I'd be all for it..GO McCOY[/quote]


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;679595]Gtripp can you give performances ranges that define elite/strong/above average in the various categories?[/quote]I can give you my baselines for averages and medians:

All data includes drafted players since 2005.

QB Starts - median 33, average 32
Completion percentage* - median 61%, average 61%

*(the average of players expected to be drafted in this class is actually pushing 64%. I split the difference and used 62.5% because of the possibility that the spread concepts behind this increase are here to stay, and the possibility that this is just a strong class).

TD Rate - 5.86%
INT rate - 2.64%
Sack Rate* - median 5.8%, average 6.0%

*(This class is median 5.2%, average 5.0%. I used these baselines instead of the historically higher ones)

Career deviation was literally the standard deviation of the spread of values over the four years of a players college eligibility, with passing attempts per year determining the value. 12 was the average, although, I don't really have anyway to make that number meaningful. I don't think variance is inherently bad: it's bad in highly rated prospects, but good in lower rated prospects.

Bradford's numbers are really completely off all the charts, but his career path was highly unorthodox and his incredible TD/INT rate is unlikely to translate anyway.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Within about one point of the median value, a player was average. Within about two points, above or below average. Outside of four points/values from the median/mean, strong or weak, and elite players were among the best two or three ever in that statistical recording since 2005.

All statistics are college statistics. Pro success/failures had no relevance in my analysis.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I'll take one hell of a trade in order to get Bradford next year. If we try any and all possible trade scenarios and the option is too expensive then I think I still like McCoy over Clausen. Reports were he was the next best in accuracy. His arm strength was not as good as Bradfords or Clausen but we have arm strength in JC and the new Vet. We need accuracy.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

I think if you protect Campbell, you'll get really good accuracy. That's really all that was different in 2008.

Let him get hit all day long and, well, yeah, his mechanics go to hell. And then you get crappy accuracy like in 2009.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;679621]I think if you protect Campbell, you'll get really good accuracy. That's really all that was different in 2008.

Let him get hit all day long and, well, yeah, his mechanics go to hell. And then you get crappy accuracy like in 2009.[/quote]

I'll be interested to see how jumpy he is this year. Guy sure did stay on his toes knowing that he had to run for his life at any given moment.. was pretty obvious his knees (at least) were bothering him too.

Re: Tebow or McCoy?
 

Theres' something to be said for making a 2 pt jump in completion percentage without drastically changing how deep the average pass is being thrown and all the while regressing in terms of accuracy. What, exactly, that says I'm really not sure.

It could be as simple as a propensity to take more sacks.