Bugel asks Ramsey to show something
 

I was reading on another board this morning that on WTEM they played a clip of Bugel asking Ramsey to show something, implying that he's not practicing hard and that's part of the reason Gibbs hasn't gone to him.

Did anyone else hear this? Is this the correct interpretation of the quote?

I've always thought of Ramsey as a hard worker, I really hope this isn't true but at this point I wouldn't be surprised.

There seems to be some underlying factors we don't know or understand that could explain why Gibbs seems to be shunning Ramsey.

That's news to me
 

I haven't heard that. Like you, I thought Ramsey has a good work ethic. I do think Brunell won the job in the preseason, so maybe Ramsey is still struggling in weekly practice. That sure would explain alot. "Come on Ram, tighten up. We need you in there."

I think there are a couple of factors with Ramsey right now. First Gibbs probably still has a bad tast in his mouth from the Giants game. Even a couple of the picks weren't his fault, he def. shouldn't his inexperience. Second Gibbs always stays loyal to his vets. Lets not forget that GIbbs and brunnel are buddy buddy, they got the whole religion thing in common and other stuff. ANd third and most importantly, this is Ramsey's first time in a NFL offense. I'm sure there has been some things that Ramsey had been slow to pick up on. He needs time. But he also needs experience.

I still believe though we got nothing to lose now, if i were coach I would wait a couple of more weeks, just so Ramsey has more time to learn. Get the Stealers and Eages out of the way and then put him in. Brunnel is clearly not gonna take us to the promise land, so lets hand it over to the guy that can.

Yeah, I saw it live on the News. He said something like this: "If you ask me to say one thing to Ramsey it would be step up and show us something in practice. Prove to us that you want to step up and play". That's probably not accurate but it was something like that.


Kinda makes you wonder how bad does Ramsey look at practice? Hopefully he heard it and will step up.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Yeah, I saw it live on the News. He said something like this: "If you ask me to say one thing to Ramsey it would be step up and show us something in practice. Prove to us that you want to step up and play". That's probably not accurate but it was something like that.


Kinda makes you wonder how bad does Ramsey look at practice? Hopefully he heard it and will step up.[/QUOTE]
Well, at least this helps shine some light on the situation.

Sounds like Bugel is basically telling him the job is right there for the taking if he would just step up.

I didn't hear or see Bugel make those statements, but by several accounts from those who did, Bugel called out Brunell as well. From the sound of it, Buges was basically saying that he wants Ramsey to do something special in practice to show that he should be the starter. Unfortunately, Ramsey gets very few, if any, reps with the first team offense (which has been documented by the Post and the Times, and acknowledged by Gibbs), and the reps he does get are mostly with the scout team, playing against the starting defense. Last I read, Gibbs was saying that Ramsey does a fine job with the scout team offense:

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29165-2004Nov5.html"]The Washington Post, November 6th[/url]

[QUOTE="The Washington Post"]
Brunell takes virtually all of the snaps in practices and is the focal point of game plans each week, while Ramsey is largely a spectator trying to learn through observation and in meetings; there are no plans to allot more snaps to the backup. Ramsey has impressed the coaches by increasing his knowledge of the system despite his limited role, Gibbs said, and he has looked good running the opposition's plays with the scout team.

"Is it ideal for him? No," Gibbs said of Ramsey. "Would you like to get him some reps in practice, yeah. But if you do that, I've found, you're taking a 10 percent thing and trying to project and you're going to take away [snaps] in practice every week, and you really can't do that to the starter. He's been great as far as attitude and everything, he's been terrific, and those guys are always one play away. It's a tough thing to go through, but that's part of the quarterback position."

[/QUOTE]

Maybe it has more to do with just what he's doing on the practice field. Maybe it's also about his work ethic off the field, in the film room, etc.

Again, Gibbs said he has been impressed with Ramsey's increasing knowledge of the system despite his limited role. To me, that says he's doing all the off-the-field, classroom stuff that he needs to do. Ramsey's a smart guy, and by all accounts, an excellent student with great classroom and study habits. Again, from what Buges apparently said, he was indicating that he wanted Ramsey to do something in practice-- he wanted to see a [i]physical[/i] manifestation of Ramsey's improvement-- but no one can argue that Ramsey's opportunities to do so aren't limited at best.

The thing I dont understand, is if you want Ramsey to show you somthing, then why are there these reports that hes getting little to ZERO snaps in practice. I mean I'm not there, so I dont know for sure. However, if hes not getting the snaps, how do you expect him to show you somthing against the #1 defense in the league, with the scout team??

At this point I'm sticking with Brunell. We need this team to hold together for the up & coming games....

Who knows what Bugel is talking about exactly, I guess the message is he wants him to make the most of every opportunity he gets. He must not be doing something right if Bugel is asking him to step up.

I think Ramsey really blew it when he came in the Giants game, but lets not forget, he didn't look good at all in preseason. He had a good chance to come in and win the game, not just play well, but win it, and he gave the thing away.

I'm sure he has not look good in the opportunities he has had in practice. I am firm believer that if Ramsey gave us a better chance to win, Gibbs would put him....how can anyone argue that???

I dont know, this is such a hard scenerio to speculate about, because we dont see practice. All I can go off of is what I have seen from Ramsey in the past, which I was very impressed by and what I have seen from Brunell this year which has been horrid. I dont know, its all pure speculation, I should sneak into Redskins park and see whats really going on.

It almost seem that Ramsey is content with being a back up QB. Not knowing the full story but even though he may not be with the starting O in practice he would be with them as is the rest of the O in drills such as 7 on 7, QB drills or whatever, that would give him a chance to show something.

Brunnell won the starting job in the preseason. Although Imo it had more to do with Ramsey looking bad. I'm disappointed in Ramsey because I think what Bugel said is right on. The whole world knows that Brunnell's best days as a QB are behind him. With the way he's been performing, Ramsey should be taking advantage of the situation. I think he hasn't shown enough to Gibbs to justify a change and that says a lot considering the way Brunnell is playing. Ramsey needs to step up already and make Gibbs at least think twice before naming Brunnell the starter.

This is a live chat on the Washington Post.com........

[B]Richmond, Va.:[/B] There are some comments out there from Bugel that Ramsey may be dogging it in practice or "not showing" anything. Have you heard anything like that? And if so, I thought the back-up only ran the scout team offense and had minimal to no snaps with the 1st team offense. How are you expected to thrive in that situation? Thanks.

[B]Jason LaCanfora:[/B] I heard rumblings this week that Joe Bugel may have said something like that in a TV interview, but Ramsey real has no chance to show much given how few snaps he takes. He has been nothing but a modal citizen from what we can garner and Gibbs has raved about him. I also asked Gibbs this exact questiuon last Friday, wondering if there are things Patrick can still do in this limited role to show he has a better grasp of the offense than before, and Gibbs said he is in fact doing exactyl that, practicing hard, never complains, asks good questions of the coaches and Brunell, etc.
Now, I also know that Coach Bugel can be a lot more direct and brutally honest than Coach Gibbs tends to be, so there may be something to it, but if they thought Ramsey could give them a better chance to win no matter how bad he looked with the scout team, there is no doubt in my mind he would play. I think this issue is much larger than that and coems down to Brunell being a veteran and played very careful football taking no chances with turnovers. Even if he complets under 10 passes a game, Gibbs knows the D can keep it close and Portis can grind teams down. The fear is Ramsey makes a great play and then throws two big picks; they want consistnecy, even if it is consistently unproductive but does not result in turnovers, it seems.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]This is a live chat on the Washington Post.com........

[b]Richmond, Va.:[/b] There are some comments out there from Bugel that Ramsey may be dogging it in practice or "not showing" anything. Have you heard anything like that? And if so, I thought the back-up only ran the scout team offense and had minimal to no snaps with the 1st team offense. How are you expected to thrive in that situation? Thanks.

[b]Jason LaCanfora:[/b] I heard rumblings this week that Joe Bugel may have said something like that in a TV interview, but Ramsey real has no chance to show much given how few snaps he takes. He has been nothing but a modal citizen from what we can garner and Gibbs has raved about him. I also asked Gibbs this exact questiuon last Friday, wondering if there are things Patrick can still do in this limited role to show he has a better grasp of the offense than before, and Gibbs said he is in fact doing exactyl that, practicing hard, never complains, asks good questions of the coaches and Brunell, etc.
Now, I also know that Coach Bugel can be a lot more direct and brutally honest than Coach Gibbs tends to be, so there may be something to it, but if they thought Ramsey could give them a better chance to win no matter how bad he looked with the scout team, there is no doubt in my mind he would play. I think this issue is much larger than that and coems down to Brunell being a veteran and played very careful football taking no chances with turnovers. Even if he complets under 10 passes a game, Gibbs knows the D can keep it close and Portis can grind teams down. The fear is Ramsey makes a great play and then throws two big picks; they want consistnecy, even if it is consistently unproductive but does not result in turnovers, it seems.[/QUOTE]
Pretty good take on the situation in my opinion.

yes but even with the inconsistency you'd like to think our D can make up for it... we've already given up several TDs on offense. how much worse could it get? it must be something like everyone's saying with ramsey just not being ready i guess... only time will tell.

[QUOTE=skins009]I think there are a couple of factors with Ramsey right now. First Gibbs probably still has a bad tast in his mouth from the Giants game. Even a couple of the picks weren't his fault, he def. shouldn't his inexperience. Second Gibbs always stays loyal to his vets. Lets not forget that GIbbs and brunnel are buddy buddy, they got the whole religion thing in common and other stuff. ANd third and most importantly, this is Ramsey's first time in a NFL offense. I'm sure there has been some things that Ramsey had been slow to pick up on. He needs time. But he also needs experience.[/QUOTE]


Ramsey also has the whole 'religion thing' in common with Gibbs, but that has nothing to do with it anyways.

Charles Mann said that Ramsey is learning more standing on the sidelines listening to everything the coaching staff says about every plan than he would if he were on the field.

This whole situation might boil down to what one of the Fox guys said; Ramsey is still scared of Gibbs. Think about it. If you're nervous around somebody, you're gonna tighten up a bit. From what Matty said, Patrick isn't showing all he can do in practice, which goes with what I said above. If this is the case, it's really not a work ethic issue.

great point skinsoo9 , it realy didn't sink in that ramsey , while starting in the nfl , was playing in a college system , not an nfl system. i had'nt realy thought of it that way before.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Who knows what Bugel is talking about exactly, I guess the message is he wants him to make the most of every opportunity he gets. He must not be doing something right if Bugel is asking him to step up.[/QUOTE]

The last time Bugel called someone out (Portis), he stepped up. Let's hope it happens again.

I still don't understand this thing about Ramsey being scared of Gibbs.

What the heck does that mean and what basis does someone have to make that statement??

Who said that anyway?

I can't remember who said it. It was said as the broadcast was ending I believe. I don't necessarily think that he's scared in the traditional sense, but rather nervous.

I also agree that Ramsey is benefiting by being on the bench for a while. Back in the day QB's would sit for a good 3-4 seasons before they would play, and typically once they did get their shot they were much more productive than if they were tossed right in to the mix as a rookie.

Times have changed, now you have these high priced guys and teams can't afford to let them develop slowly. I wonder how many QB's are 'ruined' so to speak because they are rushed in to playing before they are ready.

I see people saying Ramsey isn't learning anything by not playing and I really disagree with that. He's learning the system, the terminology, he gets the mental reps during the game, he sees how Gibbs and Brunell interact and in turn he can get an idea of what will be expected of him. I really think he's going to be a better QB in the long run for having gone through a season like this. He's also learning that jobs aren't handed out, they need to be earned.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I can't remember who said it. It was said as the broadcast was ending I believe. I don't necessarily think that he's scared in the traditional sense, but rather nervous.[/QUOTE]
ok that makes more sense

[QUOTE=skins009]I think there are a couple of factors with Ramsey right now. First Gibbs probably still has a bad tast in his mouth from the Giants game. Even a couple of the picks weren't his fault, he def. shouldn't his inexperience. ...[/QUOTE]

I wonder if Gibbs would stick with a guy like Farve? There is a guy who wins games, but definatly does not always play thing safe. He throws INT's but throws the TD's to win the game. I would just like to see if Ramsey can win the game where 14 pt's aren't enough. Not that Ramsey is Farve, but I think that using the current philosphy, Farve would be on the bench watching Brunnel.
:stop:

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]
I see people saying Ramsey isn't learning anything by not playing and I really disagree with that. He's learning the system, the terminology, he gets the mental reps during the game, he sees how Gibbs and Brunell interact and in turn he can get an idea of what will be expected of him. I really think he's going to be a better QB in the long run for having gone through a season like this. He's also learning that jobs aren't handed out, they need to be earned.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, I have read an article by Troy Aikman about playing the position of QB and what he said IMO makes sense. He said something along the lines like no matter what team it is just about all the plays in the NFL are the same for every team, but where the difficulty that players have when they move from team to team is that the terminology used for a play will be different for the new team than it was on the previous team. Basicly saying that it is just learning the terminology for that system that is so hard on the players.

I agree with Matty. I think too many rookies get thrown into the fire much too soon and never have that chance to slowly develop into a more consistant QB. Sure, there are QBs that are able to adjust to the NFL and become top QBs before their time (Leftwich, Rosenwhatshisname from Pitt,Bulger), but I also think having a QB on the bench and getting all the mental stuff down and seeing how the coaches interact is a key to growth as a QB. Sure part of his learning is hands-on, but I don't think Ramsey being back-up this year is a bad thing for him. I'm also curious to know what Bugs meant by his comment of PR.

He was in a college system scoring more points than this "proven NFL system." If he can score that many in a college system he should be able to excel in the pro system, right?

Ramsey's contract year is quickly approaching and he may not want to resign with the skins no matter how much money we offer. He's a competitor, he wants to play, and it wouldn't suprise me if he's given up since it seems obvious Gibbs is too stuck in his ways and not giving Ramsey any sort of real chance at starting.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]This is a live chat on the Washington Post.com........

[B]Richmond, Va.:[/B] There are some comments out there from Bugel that Ramsey may be dogging it in practice or "not showing" anything. Have you heard anything like that? And if so, I thought the back-up only ran the scout team offense and had minimal to no snaps with the 1st team offense. How are you expected to thrive in that situation? Thanks.

[B]Jason LaCanfora:[/B] I heard rumblings this week that Joe Bugel may have said something like that in a TV interview, but Ramsey real has no chance to show much given how few snaps he takes. He has been nothing but a modal citizen from what we can garner and Gibbs has raved about him. I also asked Gibbs this exact questiuon last Friday, wondering if there are things Patrick can still do in this limited role to show he has a better grasp of the offense than before, and Gibbs said he is in fact doing exactyl that, practicing hard, never complains, asks good questions of the coaches and Brunell, etc.
Now, I also know that Coach Bugel can be a lot more direct and brutally honest than Coach Gibbs tends to be, so there may be something to it, but if they thought Ramsey could give them a better chance to win no matter how bad he looked with the scout team, there is no doubt in my mind he would play. I think this issue is much larger than that and coems down to Brunell being a veteran and played very careful football taking no chances with turnovers. Even if he complets under 10 passes a game, Gibbs knows the D can keep it close and Portis can grind teams down. The fear is Ramsey makes a great play and then throws two big picks; they want consistnecy, even if it is consistently unproductive but does not result in turnovers, it seems.[/QUOTE]


That may be true but I don't think it's smart, 1st everyone keep's harping on turnover's as if Brunell doesn't turn the ball over, when in fact he has given up 28 point's off of turnover's which directly cost us at least 2 games, which is much worse than anything Ramsey has done, the fact is anyone of us could go out there and not turn the ball over, we won't move the ball either, and that's Brunell in a nut shell, we paid 43 mil. for a QB not to turn the ball over his play does not factor in the equation, it's the bird afraid of walking that never learn's to fly, IMO Brunell is hanging on to his job through lack of effort, in other word's by not moving the ball he minimizes the chances for a turnover so why take a chance? I am sorry but there is a reason the QB is the highest paid position in the NFL he is paid to win, not to not lose, the fact that Brunell is reduced to a QB that is expected just to not lose a game is an indictment in itself on his talent and the confidence of the coach in him as a winner, and defiently not the kind of player you give 43 mil. to.

I say let the bird who's not afraid to walk learn to fly! And that's Ramsey!

[QUOTE=Daseal]He was in a college system scoring more points than this "proven NFL system." If he can score that many in a college system he should be able to excel in the pro system, right?[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. If that were the case guys like David Klingler and Andre Ware would be Hall of Fame NFL QBs

A college system in the NFL and he still scored points is what I'm getting at. Everyone want's to belittle Spurriers system, and I admit it had flaws, but at least we got into the endzone.

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]The thing I dont understand, is if you want Ramsey to show you somthing, then why are there these reports that hes getting little to ZERO snaps in practice. I mean I'm not there, so I dont know for sure. However, if hes not getting the snaps, how do you expect him to show you somthing against the #1 defense in the league, with the scout team??[/QUOTE]


Really. And don't you think most players would get disillusioned if they're not even given a semblence of a chance, particularly when you keep seeing the QB in front of you stink up the place.

[QUOTE=Skins fan 44]It almost seem that Ramsey is content with being a back up QB.[/QUOTE]

Hardly the case I think. Ramsey's contract is heavily incentive-laden based on snaps and performance.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I can't remember who said it. It was said as the broadcast was ending I believe. I don't necessarily think that he's scared in the traditional sense, but rather nervous.[/QUOTE]

It was Bradshaw, so you know you have to take it with a grain of salt.

[QUOTE=Daseal]A college system in the NFL and he still scored points is what I'm getting at. Everyone want's to belittle Spurriers system, and I admit it had flaws, but at least we got into the endzone.[/QUOTE]

Daseal, I'll give you that...Spurrier's system did score more points than we are currently scoring. But, even though he has this fun-n-gun offense, he was lacking in just about every other area of being the head coach of an NFL team. He seemed more suited as an offensive coordinator than a head coach. He just didn't seem to know how to work with NFL level players. What Gibbs is doing right now is building a team. It takes a while. Yeah, we all want to win now because it has been so long but, if we want our winning ways to last we have to build the team from the ground up.

I, for one, would like to see Ramsey get a start. I really think he can get us three touchdowns a game.

People forget that in the Giants game this year, he did throw 2 touchdown passes but one was dropped by Mr. 50/50. Let's just say that he didn't drop it. I wonder were we would be now.

What I think is funny is that it sounds as if even Bugel knows that the offense is going no where with Brunell in the driver seat. I mean if look at it from Bugel's point of veiw, every week he gets our O-line ready for sunday only to have brunell stink up the place.

I hope we all can agree that Coach Gibbs returned to this team to restore it to greatness. If we truly believe this, then we can trust him and his staff to make sure we have the best chance to turn this thing around. No more bandaid, quick fix approaches. A complex yet productive system and a dedication by rank and file or no-name players who make big plays. Right now, we can point to the defense and look at the difference from last year. There is continuity and dedication to shut every opponents offense down. However, the offense has lost a giant of a player in Jon Jansen and has struggled consistently with pass blocking, penalties and not a lot of depth on the O line to replace Jansen in the same way that Lavar's absence had created. Hopefully, Brunell can finish out the second half of the year with greater passing yards and end this season with a winning record. And Ramsey will hopefully be ready for next year with the system firmly implanted in his psyche and ready to go.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]I hope we all can agree that Coach Gibbs returned to this team to restore it to greatness. If we truly believe this, then we can trust him and his staff to make sure we have the best chance to turn this thing around. No more bandaid, quick fix approaches. A complex yet productive system and a dedication by rank and file or no-name players who make big plays. Right now, we can point to the defense and look at the difference from last year. There is continuity and dedication to shut every opponents offense down. However, the offense has lost a giant of a player in Jon Jansen and has struggled consistently with pass blocking, penalties and not a lot of depth on the O line to replace Jansen in the same way that Lavar's absence had created. Hopefully, Brunell can finish out the second half of the year with greater passing yards and end this season with a winning record. And Ramsey will hopefully be ready for next year with the system firmly implanted in his psyche and ready to go.[/QUOTE]

well put