how to balance the budget?
 

[URL="http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100702/US.California.Budget.Minimum.Wage/"][COLOR=#0073ae]Court Sides with Schwarzenegger[/COLOR][/URL]
nothing like making someone else pay for your mistakes. this stinks to high heaven

A cut to a minimum wage would mean state workers would make the equivalent of $15,000 a year. The average state worker makes $65,000 annually, according to the state Department of Personnel Administration.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=dmek25;710524][URL="http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100702/US.California.Budget.Minimum.Wage/"][COLOR=#0073ae]Court Sides with Schwarzenegger[/COLOR][/URL]
nothing like making someone else pay for your mistakes. this stinks to high heaven

A cut to a minimum wage would mean state workers would make the equivalent of $15,000 a year. The average state worker makes $65,000 annually, according to the state Department of Personnel Administration.[/quote]

Gotta balance it somehow, or you just drive the state further into debt. It's a shame but that's reality these days.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=Schneed10;710527]Gotta balance it somehow, or you just drive the state further into debt. It's a shame but that's reality these days.[/quote]

That's great for the economy more people on government assistance and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710532]That's great for the economy [B]more people on government assistance[/B] and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.[/quote]


You caught that too? Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710532]That's great for the economy more people on government assistance and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.[/quote]

Pfft. JTF is going to lecture me on economics. Is anybody else amused by this?

Foreclosure is simply an evening out process, it puts the nation at a whole in no worse shape. Someone loses an asset (the house) but they also lose the liability (the mortgage). The bank who forecloses picks up the asset and also the liability. It's a zero-sum game, the net impact is none to the US Economy. The family who lost the house moves into an apartment they can actually afford, and life goes on.

If you're cutting spending by reducing wages to minimum wage, you're not putting people on government assistance. They'll make a low salary, but not so little to qualify for welfare or Medicaid. Remember, they're losing their wages, but they're not losing their benefits. They'll still have the same (tremendous) healthcare plan currently available to state workers.

I get what you're attempting to say though (albeit in an ignorant fashion): cutting government spending hurts the citizens. But if you don't bring spending into line with the tax revenue coming in, you drive the country into debt, which causes inflation and a severe weakening of the US dollar. In five years, the cost of your happy meal at McDonalds can easily go from $3 to $6.

That's the kind of inflation we saw in the 1970s and it hurt an awful lot of people. In the end, the government needs to spend whatever it's citizens can support. If the citizens can't generate the tax revenue to keep up with government spending, you end up with a lot of long-term economic pain.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=Schneed10;710541]Pfft. JTF is going to lecture me on economics. Is anybody else amused by this?

Foreclosure is simply an evening out process, it puts the nation at a whole in no worse shape. Someone loses an asset (the house) but they also lose the liability (the mortgage). The bank who forecloses picks up the asset and also the liability. It's a zero-sum game, the net impact is none to the US Economy. The family who lost the house moves into an apartment they can actually afford, and life goes on.

If you're cutting spending by reducing wages to minimum wage, you're not putting people on government assistance. They'll make a low salary, but not so little to qualify for welfare or Medicaid. Remember, they're losing their wages, but they're not losing their benefits. They'll still have the same (tremendous) healthcare plan currently available to state workers.

I get what you're attempting to say though (albeit in an ignorant fashion): cutting government spending hurts the citizens. But if you don't bring spending into line with the tax revenue coming in, you drive the country into debt, which causes inflation and a severe weakening of the US dollar. In five years, the cost of your happy meal at McDonalds can easily go from $3 to $6.

That's the kind of inflation we saw in the 1970s and it hurt an awful lot of people. In the end, the government needs to spend whatever it's citizens can support. If the citizens can't generate the tax revenue to keep up with government spending, you end up with a lot of long-term economic pain.[/quote]


The Bush Tax cuts is what made this. Bush Tax cuts repeal, problem solved. right??? This was created by the Bush tax cuts. Yeah I'm lecturing you on economics. Get your hustle on!!!!

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710532]That's great for the economy more people on government assistance and more foreclosures. The economy is not like your wallet. Curtting spening does not help an economy. That mean less activity, and that means more debt.[/quote]
I usually try to stay out of these arguments, but whatever. Cutting spending does help an economy because it puts more money into the private sector. All government spending does it take money from the private sector and then just puts a percentage of that money back in. It doesn't work. The government does not make money, it just takes it from people who make money.

Have you noticed that all of this government spending has not worked? We are borrowing $1.5 trillion dollars per year to "help the economy" and it is not getting better. All we are doing is screwing over our future. Spending a shit load of money didn't work in the great depression either. It doesn't work.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=steveo395;710543]I usually try to stay out of these arguments, but whatever. Cutting spending does help an economy because it puts more money into the private sector. All government spending does it take money from the private sector and then just puts a percentage of that money back in. It doesn't work. The government does not make money, it just takes it from people who make money.

Have you noticed that all of this government spending has not worked? We are borrowing $1.5 trillion dollars per year to "help the economy" and it is not getting better. All we are doing is screwing over our future. Spending a shit load of money didn't work in the great depression either. It doesn't work.[/quote]

We are borrowing money because of the Bush Tax cuts. According to your theory after the Bush tax cuts we should be in Nirvana by now. Why cut taxes when you know you can't cut Social Security. That's being intellectually dishonest. Now tell me who can cut spending on Social Security? We are spending 1 trillion dollars this year on war. We borrowing that. That is where the deficit is coming from. An oh by the way, that spending took us out of a depression. Why u think the Democrats won all those congressional seats. It was because of all the job loses
(8 million lost, most gone forever).

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710545]We are borrowing money because of the Bush Tax cuts. According to your theory after the Bush tax cuts we should be in Nirvana by now. Why cut taxes when you know you can't cut Social Security. That's being intellectually dishonest. Now tell me who can cut spending on Social Security? We are spending 1 trillion dollars this year on war. We borrowing that. That is where the deficit is coming from. An oh by the way, that spending took us out of a depression. Why u think the Democrats won all those congressional seats. It was because of all the job loses
(8 million lost, most gone forever).[/quote]
Part of the reason we're borrowing money is because of the Bush tax cuts. The Republicans are retarded and cut taxes without cutting spending. You have to do both.

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid all need to be cut somehow or were screwed. They are all basically Ponzi schemes that are legal because the government is doing them. All those programs are broke and we can't just keep increasing taxes to pay for all these entitlements. What do you think is happening in Greece and the rest of Europe right now?

Defense spending was $782 billion last year, most of that wasn't on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but I agree the spending is too high. We have spent about $1 trillion total since 2001 on the wars, not just last year. I'm all for ending the wars as soon as possible, as is everybody, but thats not easy to do. One way to cut this budget though is to get our troops out of all these random countries around the world, like in Europe and Japan. Why can't they protect themselves.

And no, the new deal did not take us out of the depression, World War 2 did. Unemployment was over 15% between 1931 and 1940. All that spending did not help the economy. FDR's Treasury Secretary, Henry Morgenthau, Jr. even admitted it didn't work in 1939 when addressing the House Ways and Means Committee: [I]“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”[/I]

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[B]Steveo[/B]


I wasn't speaking of the Great Depression, I was speaking of the Bush Depression. Greece has nothing to do with America's future. Greece's retirement age is at 51. If we had a retirement age of 51 we would be in their situation too. The defense budget is not how much we spend , it is how much we admit we are spending.

Here's the quote: [B]"This is my rifle!"[/B]

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.[1][2]

When the budget was signed into law on October 28, 2009, the final size of the Department of Defense's budget was $680 billion, $16 billion more than President Obama had requested.[3][4] An additional $33 billion supplemental bill to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was expected to pass in the spring of 2010, but has been delayed by the House of Representatives after passing the Senate.[5][6] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $216 billion and $361 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $880 billion and [B]$1.03 trillion in fiscal year 2010[/B].[7]

Here's the link: [B]"This is my gun!"[/B]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States]Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]


[B]This is for fighting and this is for fun!!!!![/B]

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png[/IMG]

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710549][IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png[/IMG][/quote]

We better be glad we only owe 12 trillion dollars.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710542]The Bush Tax cuts is what made this. Bush Tax cuts repeal, problem solved. right??? This was created by the Bush tax cuts. Yeah I'm lecturing you on economics. Get your hustle on!!!![/quote]

That's so horribly incorrect that I can't even consider this a debate worth having.

Not sure I did in the first place, come to think of it.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

Scneed - its JTF, facts, actual history and reality have no bearing on his point of view. For rational people, bound by logic, it's pointless to debate him.

Me, I am just awed at his capability for self-deception. It is just epic. Truly amazing.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;710557]Scneed - its JTF, facts, actual history and reality have no bearing on his point of view. For rational people, bound by logic, it's pointless to debate him.

Me, I am just awed at his capability for self-deception. It is just epic. Truly amazing.[/quote]

LOL. I know. I nearly spit my scotch all over the computer in laughter when he said "we are spending 1 trillion dollars THIS YEAR on war." I mean come on. There are plenty of folks around here with more political/economic knowledge than I (Schneed10, Saden, you, SS33, etc), but that comment was tell tale.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

to stay true to this thread, how is this a good thing?

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=dmek25;710560]to stay true to this thread, how is this a good thing?[/quote]

Because California collects a lot less money in taxes than it pays out in salaries for workers and other spending. If they keep doing that unchecked the state government's credit rating will be downgraded (like Greece has been), which will lead to higher interest rates on it's debt, which will lead to even more spending to finance the higher interest payments, which could ultimately lead to the state defaulting on it's obligations.

Same thing as if you were to ring up a big credit card balance. You may be able to make the minimum monthly payment. But what if you keep spending and adding to that balance? The minimum monthly payment gets bigger. What if it got so big that one month you had to choose between paying your car payment and paying the credit card bill? You could end up losing your car. Same thing is at play here with California.

They need to live within their means.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

OK, your telling me how it works for the state. what about the normal Joe? the governor already has his millions. how would you survive on this kind of pay cut?

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=GMScud;710559]LOL. I know. I nearly spit my scotch all over the computer in laughter when he said "we are spending 1 trillion dollars THIS YEAR on war." I mean come on. There are plenty of folks around here with more political/economic knowledge than I (Schneed10, Saden, you, SS33, etc), but that comment was tell tale.[/quote]

So we are not spending a trillion dollars? Then why the hell are things not going our way? If it's not going our way then spend a trillion and get it over with instead half ass spending on it and it keeps going on for years and years. Most of the American people are confused as to why we are in Afghanistan anyway. Even the RNC chairman, (a black republican with a big ole job) don't know why we are in Afghanistan. Just think about the average American Dallas Cowboy fan, you know they don't know.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=dmek25;710565]OK, your telling me how it works for the state. what about the normal Joe? the governor already has his millions. how would you survive on this kind of pay cut?[/quote]

Going from $65K to minimum wage? It would hurt a lot, that's for sure. If it were a permanent paycut (which it's not, but...) I'd have to downgrade out of my house and move into a much cheaper apartment, I'd have to sell any car on which I had an outstanding car payment and instead buy a clunker, I'd have to give up all creature comforts such as cell phones, cable TV, and air conditioning, and I'd have to use just about all of my income feeding my family. Hopefully I'd have a spouse who can continue making an average salary. If I were a single parent, life would get extremely hard.

It's a tough decision for the governor to make. But it's one of those situations where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Reducing wages for state workers is one way to bring the government towards a balanced budget, which in the long run is in the best interests of all Californians.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

Personally I'd go the route of cutting programs and laying off a chunk of the state workers. But that's a more permanent move. Schwarzenegger's going for the most temporary of moves to put pressure on the legislature to make decisions and pass a budget. That budget would include program cuts and layoffs.

Unfortunate reality of today's economy.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=Schneed10;710564]Because California collects a lot less money in taxes than it pays out in salaries for workers and other spending. If they keep doing that unchecked the state government's credit rating will be downgraded (like Greece has been), which will lead to higher interest rates on it's debt, which will lead to even more spending to finance the higher interest payments, which could ultimately lead to the state defaulting on it's obligations.

Same thing as if you were to ring up a big credit card balance. You may be able to make the minimum monthly payment. But what if you keep spending and adding to that balance? The minimum monthly payment gets bigger. What if it got so big that one month you had to choose between paying your car payment and paying the credit card bill? You could end up losing your car. Same thing is at play here with California.

They need to live within their means.[/quote]
Nice post sir . Ill. and Ca . have serious problems paying their state pension plans [url=http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/02/illinois-pension-fund-61-billion.html]Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Illinois Pension Fund $61 Billion Underwater; State Borrows Money For 2010 Contribution; California $20 Billion in the Hole Again[/url] .... [url=http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_24/b3937081.htm]Sinkhole![/url] . You are correct , spending more than you take in is ultimate failure , borrowing on top of that is only going to make matters worse .

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

In general, I think it's important for people to realize that while life is a right, making a living is a privelege, one that must be earned.

Nobody owes you a $65K job. You need to make sure you're employed by an employer with a successful business model, who can afford to pay you. Don't stick with the employers who can't afford it, like the California state government, or you're susceptible to layoffs. Easier said than done? Maybe, but that's where you have to earn your place in this world. You need to be better than others at your job level, strong enough to make yourself desirable to all employers. Only when employers think you're better than the rest do you earn the privelege that is a job with a successful employer.

Work and deserve it, earn it to own it.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

NY has been going through similar issues. The governor keeps trying to take out the state's financial woes on the state employees. He tried to push through a furlough (every friday off - unpaid), that blew up in his face as he was overruled in the courts. And now he's back to simply threatening layoffs every chance he gets. And now we're into July with no budget. Gotta love NY.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

why does it always seem like the ordinary Joe has to pay in the end? state workers? does that include the Cal. legislative branches? the judges? the police/ fireman? it seems like everyone else has to pay for the politicians dumb ass decisions. its just not fair

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

^^ Who elected the dumbass politicians? Who will reelect them when they cut everybody's salary but their own?

On the other side of it, underpaying government workers is likely to lead to a) loss of the well qualified public service employees who will be cherry picked by private industry; and b) an increase in graft/corruption as the remaining employees occassionally seek to "supplement" their income by influencing contracts, fines, etc.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

Thats why Chris Christie from New Jersey is the man. He balanced the budged without raising taxes and he did it by actually talking like a normal person. He tells shit like it is instead of talking like some douche politician. Telling the truth works and he got a democratic majority legislator to go along with him because its pretty hard to argue against the truth.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=steveo395;710593]Thats why Chris Christie from New Jersey is the man. He balanced the budged without raising taxes and he did it by actually talking like a normal person. He tells shit like it is instead of talking like some douche politician. Telling the truth works and he got a democratic majority legislator to go along with him because its pretty hard to argue against the truth.[/quote]

Ahhhhahhhhahhhhahahahahahhhhahhhhahhhhahahaha

Christie will do anything for donut.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710599]Ahhhhahhhhahhhhahahahahahhhhahhhhahhhhahahaha

Christie will do anything for donut.[/quote]

If Christie was a Dem you'd be singing his praises probably. Instead you laugh at his accomplishments because of his party affiliation. You shouldn't be so dismissive of people/policy simply because of the attached affiliation. That line of thinking is a big part of what's wrong with politics today.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=GMScud;710601]If Christie was a Dem you'd be singing his praises probably. Instead you laugh at his accomplishments because of his party affiliation. You shouldn't be so dismissive of people/policy simply because of the attached affiliation. That line of thinking is a big part of what's wrong with politics today.[/quote]

I'm laughing because what he is trying to do has already been tried in South Carolina. It does not work. It never has worked. It is only a theory. I laugh because Republicans are always spouting theories like they are proven facts. You wanna know how your no tax free market theory actually looks when implemented? Wanna know how a weak and small government society looks? Look at South Carolina, last in education, Over 12 percent unemployment, this was before the bush Depression. New Jersey is gonna kick Republican tails after this aftermath. Kinda like when the terminator terminated Cali. HAHahahahahaha!

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

i like the idea of telling the truth. regardless of party

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=dmek25;710605]i like the idea of telling the truth. regardless of party[/quote]

Agreed. However truth and politics is about as likely as utopia.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM"]YouTube - Classic Movie Line #15[/ame]

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

They need to learn how to cut spending and tax properly. It's the state's fault that they can't pass a damn budget and this is Ahhhhnold's way of telling them to get it the eff done.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

Here is an idea.

The Reds and Blues go to their separate corner and devise a plan. Then the two sides meet in the middle on both plans. Working together, setting aside party lines, and just FIX IT.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3uxqwTxk0]YouTube - FIX IT[/url]

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710604]I'm laughing because what he is trying to do has already been tried in South Carolina. It does not work. It never has worked. It is only a theory. I laugh because Republicans are always spouting theories like they are proven facts. You wanna know how your no tax free market theory actually looks when implemented? Wanna know how a weak and small government society looks? Look at South Carolina, last in education, Over 12 percent unemployment, this was before the bush Depression. New Jersey is gonna kick Republican tails after this aftermath. Kinda like when the terminator terminated Cali. HAHahahahahaha![/quote]
Have you ever heard of this country called the United States of America. It was built upon limited government and created the most free and prosperous country in the history of mankind. You should try reading and studying some history sometime. The founding fathers were some pretty smart guys.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

you realize how far away we are right now from their original plan?

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=dmek25;710633]you realize how far away we are right now from their original plan?[/quote]

I think that was his point.

Re: how to balance the budget?
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;710604]I'm laughing because what he is trying to do has already been tried in South Carolina. It does not work. It never has worked. It is only a theory. I laugh because Republicans are always spouting theories like they are proven facts. You wanna know how your no tax free market theory actually looks when implemented? Wanna know how a weak and small government society looks? Look at South Carolina, last in education, Over 12 percent unemployment, this was before the bush Depression. New Jersey is gonna kick Republican tails after this aftermath. Kinda like when the terminator terminated Cali. HAHahahahahaha![/quote]As usual, you're off in Bizarro world with your facts and you like to claim Rs spout theories as proven facts. That's better than spouting completely incorrect facts as fact any day of the week.

In education South Carolina ranks slightly below the national avg. 26th on this site:

[URL="http://www.morganquitno.com/edfact06.htm"]Smartest State Factors[/URL]

at the National Center for Education Stats it varies based on subject,
looking at 8th grade math SC is around 30th, in Grade 8 reading 43rd overall. What was interesting in both polls, for the state you continue to slam as racist, is the scores for minority students were in comparatively higher percentiles nationally than white students.

[URL="http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/"]State Profiles.net[/URL]

Unemployment is SC in May of 2007 was 5.5%. Unemployment in SC is currently at 11%, with a high of 12.5% in Jan. 2010, at the height of the Obama Recession. Keep in mind the People's Republic of California's unemployment is at 12.4%. If I remember correctly auto manufacturing is a large employment segment in SC, that may explain the elevated rate more than Republican control of the state-house.

As for balancing the budget, I would advocate implementing the FairTax and temporarily elevate the rate with the elevated % of it exclusively for debt reduction and not put into the general fund. Once the entitlement programs/debt interest are reformed and under control the rate would reduce to a "normal" rate. Spending, start off with a 5% across the board cut to all agencies.