Where do we go from here with Brunell?
 

So do we bite the bullet and cut him after this season? We'll have to eat about $7M from his bonus. Ouch.

It's obvious he's a complete bust. Gibbs rolled the dice and lost, simple as that.

Coming in to this season Gibbs wanted a veteran QB who could manage the game, play smart, not turn it over and let the running game and the defense take care of everything else. On paper it looked like a solid formula for success.

So much for that plan, now it's on to plan B. Ramsey definitely needs polish, I guess the question is how much.

So what do we do with Brunell now? Cut him? Let him ride the pine? Hope he retires??

Should be yet another interesting offseason.

let him ride the pine.

What will the cap hit be if he retires? The guy is done if you ask me. He was done last year when Jacksonville benched him.

First of all, I cannot remember a loss that was so embarrassing for the fans of the Redskins than this loss yesterday. Right now, Ramsey nor Brunell is the best option for this team. It was obvious that had the Bengals intercepted the balls Ramsey threw, it would be crazy to even fathom a career for him on this team let alone for the future. I also noticed the boos for Ramsey after his consecutive three and outs. We deserve more than mediocre performances by these two who are supposed to be an exception to the rule as NFL players. I think we need to search high and low, NFL Europe, Candadian League or the NFL this off season until we find a veteran player who can live up to his press release. If not, we are in for another season of underachievement and salary cap problems.

Lastly, Brunell will sit out the rest of this season. Hasselbeck moves up as 2# QB and Ramsey,well he just has to take it like a man because teams will be blitzing him every down.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]First of all, I cannot remember a loss that was so embarrassing for the fans of the Redskins than this loss yesterday. Right now, Ramsey nor Brunell is the best option for this team. It was obvious that had the Bengals intercepted the balls Ramsey threw, it would be crazy to even fathom a career for him on this team let alone for the future. I also noticed the boos for Ramsey after his consecutive three and outs. We deserve more than mediocre performances by these two who are supposed to be an exception to the rule as NFL players. I think we need to search high and low, NFL Europe, Candadian League or the NFL this off season until we find a veteran player who can live up to his press release. If not, we are in for another season of underachievement and salary cap problems.

Lastly, Brunell will sit out the rest of this season. Hasselbeck moves up as 2# QB and Ramsey,well he just has to take it like a man because teams will be blitzing him every down.[/QUOTE]

You make a good point SUNRA, but I think we need to give Ramsey another shot. He came in down 17 without any practice time with the first team. Hopefully he can adjust to the speed of the game and make some quicker reads with some practice time.

It's way too early to write off Ramsey. I know he's looked shaky but he really hasn't had a fair chance yet.

He looked shaky last year. But he was on the ground every play, so I guess does not count. I am not ready to write him of yet. I will give him to the Dallas game. He will get his payback from last year.

I'm not sure what happens if he retires, but when Deion retired, didn't they still take a cap hit?

I think the only way they can avoid the cap hit is if he is willing to renegotiate his contract. Can anyone substantiate this?

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's way too early to write off Ramsey. I know he's looked shaky but he really hasn't had a fair chance yet.[/QUOTE]

I want to see Ramsey do well, because it was unfair for him to be thrown in a spot to come back like in the Giants and Bengals game. I also do not want to see the coaching abandon Portis who has proven he can't be contained if he's given the ball enough. I watched Portis wave off the coaching staff who wanted to pull him on third down. Instead he stayed in the game. I wouldn't recommend that in the future but I understood his point. Ramsey has to given the same plays that Brunell was given. Handoffs and short screens will get him into a rythm. Then open it up down field.

Anyone else notice Coles start to come alive when Ramsey came in?
He was much more animated than usual.
I think he was very frustrated with Brunell in there.

first were's crazy canuk on this post he's the cap figures guy...

Secondly Ramsey just needs time to get into the mix of things if taught right he could be a great manning like player, but to get anywhere close to this mark the line has to block and the recievers need to get open. Also if ramsey if the future he needs to develop with his roster. That is why McCants and him have developed a connection with each other because they've practiced together.

As for brunnel I would take the hit regaurdless of what it is; because he doesn't deserve a roster spot. we need to draft someone or sign a decent free agent they don't have to be awesome, just get the job done.

Wowsers! I have been avoiding the ole Warpath like the plague all day since I am still in unbelievable pain about yesterday. Where do I start?

First off Ramsey definitely gets the next start. Gibbs spent the entire first half of the season to figure out Brunell couldn't play he certainly can't decide Ramsey can't play either after one half of football of a game in which he practiced with the practice squad all week.

That being said he played just about as well as I think he can play. Look, Ramsey gives us a guy who has a chance to actually hit a receiver down field (or even 10 yards downfiled for that matter). He is gunslinger type guy at this point in his career with a cannon for an arm. His decision making seems relatively sound (I'll get to my rationale on thsi in a moment) and LOVES to get the ball to Coles who is out best WR and biggest playmaker outside of Portis. What he lacks is a clear udnerstanding of a REAL NFL offense(this is getting better I am sure) and any movement whatsoever. Basically he is the least mobile QB in the game. This is less a product of his mobility and more because he is a tough SOB who thinks he can stand in there and take hits as he lets go of the ball. He slow for sure but there are plently of slow ass QBs in the leagu who play well. Once he learns better pocket presence and footwork his mobility will become less of a deteriment and more a passing issue. Let me get back to his decision making...most of you probably think I am nuts to think he makes sound decisions but his performance Sunday only affirmed my deepest suspicions and fears. I think our main problem in the passing game seems to be our WRs NOT GETTING ANY SEPERATION AND DROPPING THREE PASSES A GAME. This is why Brunell looked so bad and was always throwing the ball away. Brunell threw probably 7-8 balls away a game. This is an astounding number and I cannot be convinced a veterean QB with decent mobility would ever need to do this with a decent set of WRs. Brunell knew he didn't have the gun to squeak the ball in tight spots. Notice he didn't throw too many direct INT's Most were deflections and badly thrown balls on the move. The latter of whcih highlighted his sucky arm strength. Ramsey can't much fix any of this. In fact I would guess the reason Gibss took so long was that he knew the main problem was our WRs downfield and HE KNEW Ramsey would try and throw into the tight spots and with the way our D had played there was no reason to put someone in who was going to throw picks. I think as long as out WRs can't get open then we are in trouble.

At this point the best the skins can hope for from MB is that he will take on the role (like Drew Bledsoe did for Brady) of teacher for PR. Unfortunately the skins are spending a lot of scratch for that teacher.

I think its too early to write off PR but we will definitely know by the end of the year if PR is an nfl starter or a back-up.

I think the real question as the season wind down is...

If Ramsey struggles, is the a chance of going QB in the draft?? I very seriously doubt it, although we know many fans will be clamoring for it..

I think Drew Brees would be an option... of course I think he is going to be FAR over-paid by whoever signs him due to one good year... I'm not sure who else will be available...

At this point, we all have to recognize that the Mark Brunell signing could possibly be one of the top 3 worst moves in franchise history, but OK, we still have a great defense , running back, and pretty good recievers... so what are we missing?

A QB!!

Trust me, I have backed Ramsey from the beginning... I was one of those guys that got ripped for saying I understood how the Brunell signing was a slap in his face because he WAS our fearsome leader last year.. taking the beating he did and never complaining. Post after post, we 80 - 90 percent of us said WHAT?? NOT Brunell!!

Maybe they should start letting the fans vote on personnel decisions... can't hurt can it? hahaha

I think we plant some weed in Brunell's gym bag and get him suspended by the league at no cost to us!

Otherwise, I think if he's going to be cut it would have to be after June 1st right?

[QUOTE=SUNRA]I want to see Ramsey do well, because it was unfair for him to be thrown in a spot to come back like in the Giants and Bengals game. I also do not want to see the coaching abandon Portis who has proven he can't be contained if he's given the ball enough. I watched Portis wave off the coaching staff who wanted to pull him on third down. Instead he stayed in the game. I wouldn't recommend that in the future but I understood his point. Ramsey has to given the same plays that Brunell was given. Handoffs and short screens will get him into a rythm. Then open it up down field.[/QUOTE]

He is going to be blitzed and sacked a lot. Ramsey will also throw a bunch of picks. That said, it is WAY WAY WAY to early to write him off.

History says that it usually takes about 32 starts for the normal starting QB to develop. Right now, Ramsey is about a full season away from that point. He's definately got the talent to be a top notch QB; I think we should wait and see if his mental game develops over the course of the season before writing him off.

Your approach would have had Drew Brees getting the ax before this season - thus missing out on a hell of an improvement.

Ramsey needs some serious time with Gibbs, Breaux, and Buges coaching, evlauating, teaching him, and he needs time to get in synch with the receivers on the reads in Gibbs offense. In the mean time, he's going to get blitzed and harrassed and messed with by every D-coordinator we face, because he has such trouble reading defenses. Give him time.

As for Brunnell, he's a bust. And he cost a draft pick!!! I mean, no one was going to outbid Snyder for his services, but still we traded before the deadline. Ouch.

I bet Gibbs keeps him around as a backup. And don't be surprised if Ramsey goes down. He still holds the ball way to long, and he is less mobile than Rypien.

hitman,and make it lok like an accident

Ramsey only has 17 games under his belt. He needs more time to develop.

Give Ramsey time. Brunell had 8 1/4 games to attempt to prove he could do it. Why should Ramsey get any less? Play Ramsey the rest of the season, and he will prove that he is the Redskins QB of the future...and the future is NOW!
As for Brunell, I don't think they can cut him after this year due to cap issues, so he should stay as the back-up through 2005....Then let him go. Yeah it'll still be a good sized cap hit, but sometimes you've gotta do what you've gotta do. He knows he's been sucking...and he seems like the type of guy that will work hard to be better in case he's needed and will help Patrick preparing for games.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's way too early to write off Ramsey. I know he's looked shaky but he really hasn't had a fair chance yet.[/QUOTE]
I agree. We need him to play for a few weeks before we can really judge him.

It could be a good idea to have Brunell stick around and kinda tutor Ramsey.......

Maybe we can restructure his deal and give him the veteran minimum? Is that possible?

Well, Brunell can always go into [URL=http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6490678/]real estate[/URL]

I say keep Brunnell on as a teacher/mentor, and hope that he is willing to play the role as back-up even third string. At this point I would not mind Hasselbeck getting bumped up to 2nd string because he looked really good last season in relief of Ramsey...not to mention he looked pretty decent in the pre-season. But, we all know football players' pride and accepting a role like that is probably difficult knowing that you went to a team that you felt you'd be starting for.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Well, Brunell can always go into [URL=http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6490678/]real estate[/URL][/QUOTE]


LOL he just got 9.5 million for his beachfront house! He can take a damn paycut!

[QUOTE=SUNRA]I want to see Ramsey do well, because it was unfair for him to be thrown in a spot to come back like in the Giants and Bengals game. I also do not want to see the coaching abandon Portis who has proven he can't be contained if he's given the ball enough. I watched Portis wave off the coaching staff who wanted to pull him on third down. Instead he stayed in the game. I wouldn't recommend that in the future but I understood his point. Ramsey has to given the same plays that Brunell was given. Handoffs and short screens will get him into a rythm. Then open it up down field.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with you on these points, SUNRA.

I was really disappointed that Gibbs seemed intent on calling for Brunell to pass so often early in the game (unless it was Brunell audibling out of running plays-- he was making adjusments at the line, maybe that's the case). Portis was getting some room to run, but for some reason they got away from the running game early on, which led to all those 3 & outs in the first half, giving the Bengals way too much time of possession, and putting the Redskins defense on the field way too much.

I was glad that Gibbs called for Ramsey to hand the ball off to Portis on his first two snaps, but after that, he really didn't give Portis much of a chance to get into a rhythm and, in turn, open up the passing game. Granted, the Skins were down by 17 points, but there was still a lot of time left in the game at that point (there was still 7 minutes left in the first half when Ramsey came in, I believe). Even in the second half, I felt like Gibbs should have been running a little more. Portis needs to get at least 20 carries a game-- preferably 25-- even if the Skins are playing from behind. Portis is the kind of back that can put you right back in the game with one long run.

I just felt like Gibbs needlessly put the pressure on Ramsey to generate the offense himself, when there was enough time in the game-- at least in the 2nd and 3rd quarters-- to put the game on Portis' shoulders a little more. In the 4th quarter, I can understand putting it on Ramsey's shoulders, but it just seemed like Gibbs panicked and abandoned the running game too early.

Hopefully, Gibbs will rely on Portis to get the Redskins wins against San Fran, New York, Minnesota, Dallas and Philly, who currently rank 17th, 18th, 22nd, 23rd and 27th against the run, respectively. He will have to do everything he can to take the pressure off of Ramsey. Pittsburgh's going to be tough, though. They've got the #1 defense (#2 against the run and #5 against the pass).

I don't know what to do with Brunell...bench? Cut? Whatever hurts the salary cap less I guess.

As for Ramsey, I don't want to live in the past but let me make one comparison point. The book on Rypien when he started for Gibbs early was that he had a cannon for an arm, but was imobile and proned to fumbles and interceptions. Same as Ramsey, so it's not time to abandon Ramsey yet. let Gibbs and his staf have some time to try and teach him how to play. The only menaingful games he has played were in Spurriers flawed system and 2 mopup performances in games that Brunell had already screwed up. Basically, it's way to early to make judgements on Ramsey.

*Snip*

Brunell has to go, cut our losses early, take all the $#!+ from the press, and have Ramsey lead us to a Superbowl.

That is the only option.

Hey, the right decision was made yesterday benching Brunell. Now, lets give Ramsey some time to get comfortable. Ramsey should have had about 5 games under his belt this season, but thats ok. Most of the scouts and "football guys" agree Ramsey has some great skills. Lets be patient. We may lose some games but as long as he doesn't look as pitiful as Brunell, i can live with it. Ramsey will get better with playing time and an improved offensive line. Lets put Hass. as our #2 for now. As far as Brunell goes, i don't know the cap #'s for next year, but if we can keep him as a backup, lets do it.