Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/07/04/10/The-Redskins-Are-Still-Over-the-Hill/landing_v3.html?blockID=265844&feedID=6458]The Redskins Are Still Over the Hill[/url]


[QUOTE]The players on the Redskins’ 53-man roster entering the 2009 season averaged 28.02 years of age. That was about 10 days older than the average member of the second-oldest team in the league, the New Orleans Saints. This demonstrates that age isn’t necessarily a barrier to success, something we’ll look into later in this article.

Although Allen and Shanahan paid lip service to getting younger, the reality is that the Redskins are likely to remain among the league’s oldest teams. Going by the projected 2010 53-man roster prepared by CSNwashington’s Ryan O’Halloran, the Redskins will average 28.5 years of age when the season opener is played on Sept. 12, about six months older than last year’s edition.[/QUOTE]

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

Good Read.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[size="7"][b]the future is now!!![/b][/size]:)

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

Hopefully they can reproduce the success of the OTH gang of the past?

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

This really shouldn't come as a surprise. His philosophy is not much different than that of his father. That was the first thing that came to my mind when he was hired as GM.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

If this proves to be true, this is not a reason for either surprise or worry. However, given that the age estimate is based on O'Halloran's questionable roster projection, things may not shake out this way.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

it worked once before, so......

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

Let's hope for a OTH 2.0

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

I know the averages disagree with me, but I don't feel like we are not trying to get younger (with the exception of the McNabb deal). I feel like most of the older players we have signed are just temporary patches to fill some holes we had (i.e all our running backs). We have not given any of the old guys long term deals, so I am not worried.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Longtimefan;710669]This really shouldn't come as a surprise. His philosophy is not much different than that of his father. That was the first thing that came to my mind when he was hired as GM.[/quote]

I think this is the first time Bruce Allen is really getting a chance to call the shots in terms of shaping the roster. I know that Shanahan has a big part in this and Allen isn't a traditional scout, but I feel like it's probably been pretty easy for Allen to sell Shanahan on making these trades for veterans for the sake of winning sooner rather then later. Plus it's not like they haven't gotten value for their trades.

Here's to hoping that the Redskins become the Celtics of the NFL.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

Well.....we are not mortgaging the future for today. We are employing stop gap measures until our draft can supplement more fully in the team building process. So far we have paid bargain basement prices, for quality players, molding what may prove to be a formidable lineup.....Great moves
And who would not like to win now and later if it can be done?

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Hog1;710685]Well.....we are not mortgaging the future for today. We are employing stop gap measures until our draft can supplement more fully in the team building process. So far we have paid bargain basement prices, for quality players, molding what may prove to be a formidable lineup.....Great moves
And who would not like to win now and later if it can be done?[/quote]

In looking at the Chiefs stats from 2001-2005 I predict we have 4 or 5 years to reload in terms of talent. However I think people keep on forgetting that theres another side of the ball and our defensive guys aren't going to hold up forever.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Hog1;710667]Hopefully they can reproduce the success of the OTH gang of the past?[/quote]

I was thinking that, I'll take success from old guys any day.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;710678]I think this is the first time Bruce Allen is really getting a chance to call the shots in terms of shaping the roster. I know that Shanahan has a big part in this and Allen isn't a traditional scout, but I feel like it's probably been pretty easy for Allen to sell Shanahan on making these trades for veterans for the sake of winning sooner rather then later. Plus it's not like they haven't gotten value for their trades.

Here's to hoping that the Redskins become the Celtics of the NFL.[/quote]


If there's a silver lining to the age of this roster in comparison to George Allen's "over the hill gang", it's that we do have youth at some positions where before, just about everybody on those teams were over thirty.

Granted, the youth has to produce, otherwise when our aging players play out in a couple of years we have nothing to replenish the roster. Without a doubt this team is being constructed to win now, just like our 70's teams, but that's what I expected with Bruce Allen and Shanahan being a former super bowl winning coach. It's easy to see how the inclination is to win, and to win now.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Hog1;710685]Well.....we are not mortgaging the future for today. We are employing stop gap measures until our draft can supplement more fully in the team building process. So far we have paid bargain basement prices, for quality players, molding what may prove to be a formidable lineup.....Great moves
And who would not like to win now and later if it can be done?[/quote]

Couldn't have put it better myself

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

The NE patriots went to the super bowl in 07 with the oldest LB core in the league ever. They had a lot of old guys on that squad for sure.

Age isn't a horrifying factor to a football team, especially to a professional football team.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Hog1;710685]Well.....we are not mortgaging the future for today. We are employing stop gap measures until our draft can supplement more fully in the team building process. So far we have paid bargain basement prices, for quality players, molding what may prove to be a formidable lineup.....Great moves
And who would not like to win now and later if it can be done?[/quote]Interesting take, but when a team trades it's draft picks for a 33 year old quarterback, a 29 year old RT, and a 26 year old DL coming off two injury plagued unproductive seasons, it's pretty obvious that they are always going to use their draft picks to help in the most immediate manner.

It's going to be a vicious cycle of older players, but it's going to be higher turnover than in the Gibbs days (at least the contract lengths suggest). And if you're not going to build through the draft, you have to consistently turn over the 34 and 35 year olds and replace them with 29 and 30 year olds.

Clearly, the Redskins have the money to win this way. Problem is, you have to hit a much higher percentage in free agency and trades than you have to hit in the draft. If you can turn just 60% of your draft picks into quality players, you can miss terribly on the other 40% and it doesn't much matter. If you're missing on more than 10% of your FA acquisitions, you're putting bad players on the roster with even worse contracts, and you stay in last place.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

We're building a young core as well as adding proven vets where the draft could not solidify a position. It's a good blend of older and younger players in my opinion.

Lets hope it works. I have a good feeling that it will.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

Here's a list of players 30 years old or older, lots of them might not make the team and some will be gone next year:

84 Galloway, Joey WR 5-11 197 15 Ohio State 11-20-1971
93 Daniels, Phillip DE 6-5 302 14 Georgia 03-04-1973
59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 248 12 John Carroll 05-19-1975
45 Sellers, Mike FB 6-3 268 10 Walla Walla CC 07-21-1975
78 Holliday, Vonnie DL 6-5 285 12 North Carolina 12-11-1975
55 Draft, Chris LB 5-11 233 12 Stanford 02-26-1976
3 Bidwell, Josh P 6-3 228 11 Oregon 03-13-1976
5 McNabb, Donovan QB 6-2 240 11 Syracuse 11-25-1976
85 Furrey, Mike WR 6-0 192 7 Northern Iowa 03-12-1977
61 Rabach, Casey C 6-4 288 8 Wisconsin 09-24-1977
75 Hicks, Artis G/T 6-4 314 8 Memphis 11-28-1978
96 Kemoeatu, Maake NT 6-5 364 8 Utah 01-10-1979
72 Green, Howard NT 6-2 365 6 LSU 01-12-1979
99 Carter, Andre LB 6-4 257 9 California 05-12-1979
89 Moss, Santana WR 5-10 209 9 Miami (Fla.) 06-01-1979
27 Johnson, Larry RB 6-1 231 8 Penn State 11-19-1979
71 Williams, Mike G/T 6-6 339 6 Texas 01-11-1980
8 Grossman, Rex QB 6-1 236 7 Florida 08-23-1980
66 Dockery, Derrick G 6-6 325 7 Texas 09-07-1980
31 Buchanon, Phillip CB 5-11 186 8 Miami 09-19-1980
39 Parker, Willie RB 5-10 210 6 North Carolina 11-11-1980

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=Buster;710784]We're building a young core as well as adding proven vets where the draft could not solidify a position. It's a good blend of older and younger players in my opinion.

Lets hope it works. I have a good feeling that it will.[/quote]There's a difference, I think, between building a young core and having the 4th overall draft choice. Trent Williams is, presumably, a franchise cornerstone on the offensive line.

But he too is here as much for "what can he do for us now?" as "who will our building blocks of the future be". That's to say: his youth is a side effect of the fact that he was the best left tackle available to us (per Shanahan, not per GTripp) at any point during the offseason.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=GTripp0012;710727]Interesting take, but when a team trades it's draft picks for a 33 year old quarterback, a 29 year old RT, and a 26 year old DL coming off two injury plagued unproductive seasons, it's pretty obvious that they are always going to use their draft picks to help in the most immediate manner.

It's going to be a vicious cycle of older players, but it's going to be higher turnover than in the Gibbs days (at least the contract lengths suggest). And if you're not going to build through the draft, you have to consistently turn over the 34 and 35 year olds and replace them with 29 and 30 year olds.

Clearly, the Redskins have the money to win this way. Problem is, you have to hit a much higher percentage in free agency and trades than you have to hit in the draft. If you can turn just 60% of your draft picks into quality players, you can miss terribly on the other 40% and it doesn't much matter. If you're missing on more than 10% of your FA acquisitions, you're putting bad players on the roster with even worse contracts, and you stay in last place.[/quote]
I assume by "interesting take" you imply incorrect? AND you may well be right. BUT you make many assumptions of the direction forever and always of the new organization based on the opening act of the administration.
I submit they know they can't effectively reload any time soon through the (the patience of Skins fans notwithstanding)draft alone.....YET are bright enough to realize that a mix of draft and a few carefully chosen, bargain FA's may well facilitate the.....rebirth we all hope for.....soon?
AND AND, I am confident they plan to deal Albert for a few picks to backfill what they spent? Hopefully BA and Shanny will not be disappointed!
HTTR

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

I'm not concerned. Shanahan, although he may not have the final say, had more drafts during his time with the Broncos in which he had a very many draft picks rather than very few, acquiring some of those picks from the previous Redskins FO regime. I don't think that they are oblivious to the fact that getting top-caliber players usually means drafting them, unlike a certain Mr. Cerrato.
Not to mention that the Shanahan-Allen reigeme does try pretty hard to not completely give up picks or overpay.

But even so, I worry about the future of the defense as Shanahan has had a crappy track record drafting defense.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;710725][B]The NE patriots went to the super bowl in 07 with the oldest LB core in the league ever[/B]. They had a lot of old guys on that squad for sure.

Age isn't a horrifying factor to a football team, especially to a professional football team.[/quote]


I hope you are taking into account NE were stealing OFF/DF calls, I know everyone does it but they got caught. I do belevie we will play the best guy for that spot be he young or older.

HTTR.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

I honestly don't care. I think if we had a ton of picks we would have focused on the draft.

Unfortunately we didn't so we had improve our team the only way possible; FA.

Re: Bruce Allen's Over the Hill Gang
 

For every move we have made, we have paid nothing more than fair value so I am completely fine with the moves we have made.

I think some people have mentioned this but it's worth reiterating - The moves are being made for the future. The OL was addressed giving us some time to draft RBs, OL going forward. All across the board, we got a little older but that was only to give us time to draft and develop talent going forward.

It may be a long way away but I am hoping we become the Colts of the NFC -- that would be way more satisfying than just being borderline playoff participants.