A few notes on Ramsey:
 

He had a better TD to INT ratio than Peyton Manning did in his 16 games as a starter. He had 23 TD's and 17 picks. Try to keep in mind also, that I know Ramsey threw 2 INT's on Hail Maries because we didn't have a quarterback with an arm other than him.

For all the haters:

Keep in mind that Patrick Ramsey is one of very few quarterbacks who managed to throw more Touchdowns in his first year as a starter. Has he taken a step back? I don't necessarily think so. He's been put into bad situations. When they brought him in yesterday, I thought it was a bad position to put the kid in. Down 17, obviously he's not going to win it. It will just shake his already fragile confidence. However, he did get going and come up with a TD to at least make it respectable. Moving on...I want everyone to remember that Ramsey may not have "played well," but you saw him take the hits. Also, the Skins didn't just have no running game last year. They had a starting Running Back who wasn't a day over 27, that is no longer in the league because he is so bad. Ramsey will learn to make less mistakes. This game is still relatively new to him. Keep in mind next week against Philly is just his 17th NFL start. The season is lost unless they win out, he should get the same leash Brunell got...half the season. Let's see what he can do and let's just see if he's the QB of the future.

I, for one, think that he is and believe he has better physical talent than Joey Harrington. The difference? Harrington got handed the job and get this...left alone. They let him struggle, they let him learn, now they're not too bad, most young quarterbacks just get, so be patient.

[QUOTE=jdlea]He had a better TD to INT ratio than Peyton Manning did in his 16 games as a starter. He had 23 TD's and 17 picks. Try to keep in mind also, that I know Ramsey threw 2 INT's on Hail Maries because we didn't have a quarterback with an arm other than him.

For all the haters:

Keep in mind that Patrick Ramsey is one of very few quarterbacks who managed to throw more Touchdowns in his first year as a starter. Has he taken a step back? I don't necessarily think so. He's been put into bad situations. When they brought him in yesterday, I thought it was a bad position to put the kid in. Down 17, obviously he's not going to win it. It will just shake his already fragile confidence. However, he did get going and come up with a TD to at least make it respectable. Moving on...I want everyone to remember that Ramsey may not have "played well," but you saw him take the hits. Also, the Skins didn't just have no running game last year. They had a starting Running Back who wasn't a day over 27, that is no longer in the league because he is so bad. Ramsey will learn to make less mistakes. This game is still relatively new to him. Keep in mind next week against Philly is just his 17th NFL start. The season is lost unless they win out, he should get the same leash Brunell got...half the season. Let's see what he can do and let's just see if he's the QB of the future.

I, for one, think that he is and believe he has better physical talent than Joey Harrington. The difference? Harrington got handed the job and get this...left alone. They let him struggle, they let him learn, now they're not too bad, most young quarterbacks just get, so be patient.[/QUOTE]

It's good to give stats to support your point but Ramsey was probably sacked more times than any other first year QB. He has had more passes batted down than any other first year starter also.

Had Ramsey played an entire season in his first first year like Manning that TD to INT ratio would have changed. As of now, Ramsey is not a rookie , yet he will continue to make the same mistakes that led him to the bench this year. He looked horrible in preseason and still has to prove himself this week.

After this week, I'm sure the Ramsey bandwagon will die down, because the only way we win is with Portis and not deep passes from Ramsey. 38 carries for 179 yds.

"Ramsey was probably sacked more times than any other first year QB" Sunra (I dont know how to do the cool quoting) I believe David Carr has that honor

After this week, I'm sure the Ramsey bandwagon will die down, because the only way we win is with Portis and not deep passes from Ramsey. 38 carries for 179 yds.
__________________
I dont think the Ramsey bandwagon will die down because theres no way he can play worse than brunell,I've never seen a qb have a worse stretch of games than Brunell,even if we dont win another game I cant see anybody wanting brunell back in,maybe Hasselback,but not Brunell

[QUOTE=Duffman003]"Ramsey was probably sacked more times than any other first year QB" Sunra (I dont know how to do the cool quoting) I believe David Carr has that honor[/QUOTE]
yeah,but Carr lasted the whole yr,Ramsey didnt

Sunra, I know you don't like Ramsey, but do you stand by your earlier comments (from previous weeks) that Brunell should be the starting QB? Or have you joined the Ramsey "bandwagon?"

P.S. I'm not trying to be smart ass.

if you want to quote someone simply click the quote button in there post or you can manually by typing [qu0te]XXXXXXXXXX[/quote] where the x's is your message and put the letter o instead of the number zero. i did that so the code would show.

this one game will not be a fair judgement of ramsey. he is going up against one of the best teams in the league. also, he is still doesnt have the timing down with his starting WR's.

ramsey is virtually a rookie all over again. spurriers offence was not a pro style, so it will take him some time to adjust to the coaches playbook.


if ramsey can lead the offence to more than 18 points, he would be a major improvement; i dont care how many mistakes he makes.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]It's good to give stats to support your point but Ramsey was probably sacked more times than any other first year QB. He has had more passes batted down than any other first year starter also. [/QUOTE]

Where are you getting the passes batted down stat? I've never heard that one and I don't believe it.

[QUOTE=jdlea]
I, for one, think that he is and believe he has better physical talent than Joey Harrington. The difference? Harrington got handed the job and get this...left alone. They let him struggle, they let him learn, now they're not too bad, most young quarterbacks just get, so be patient.[/QUOTE]
That pretty much sums up my thinking.

Had Ramsey come in to the league under better circumstances like guys like Carr and Harrington have, he would probably be a better QB right now than both of them.

If Ramsey gets the full commitment of this team over the long-term, I think he can develop in to a quality QB.

Right now he just hasn't had a fair shot.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]It's good to give stats to support your point but Ramsey was probably sacked more times than any other first year QB. He has had more passes batted down than any other first year starter also.
[/QUOTE]
So where are you getting your #'s from?

You say it's good to give stats but you go on to say he was "probably" sacked more than any other first year QB which is totaly false, Carr was sacked an NFL record 76 times in his rookie season, thank you.

As for the batted passes I have no idea where you're "probably" getting that number from but I'd be interested to hear your source.

I wasen't able to access the site for the post game chat, Ramsey defiently showed his inexperience in this offense early on but he was kind of thrown to the wolves, he was very very lucky that the Bengal's defense can't catch, with that said he showed as the game wore on that he began to get better, and that's after 1 1/2 quarter's, I see a lot of Tom Brady in this kid he will only get better, will he have some bump's in the road? Of coarse, but he will become a dangerous QB, we will have to learn to live with the occasional head scratching INT until he really get's acclamated into this offense, he will also find his pass protection a little better when he doesn't have to play from behind, as well Portis will start running more effectivly when team's start to respect Ramsey 1 hand washes the other, our offense is poised to take off but we do have a very difficult task the over the next 4 week's, I bet Ramsey beat's the eagles 1 of those games, I am just very glad we finally made the switch. As I predicted. :thumb:

[url]http://thewarpath.net/showthread.php?p=46522#post46522[/url]

he will get us over 20 points against the eagles
something we havent seen for along time

Here is my opinion as to the QB situation with the Skins.

First of all, let me start by saying "I don't like Brunell" and never really have. However, I will say that earlier in the season I thought that Coach Gibbs must have seen something in Brunell that we all didn't and that is why Coach Gibbs stuck with Brunell for so long. Well I am going to change that and say that Coach Gibbs DIDN'T see something in Ramsey. Ramsey's biggest problem is his ability to handle the pass rush. He has great arm strength and his accuracy is average but will improve with time. Don't get me wrong, not all of his problems are his fault. Alot of them have to do with the Offensive line. I would be a bit cautious if I got hit as many times as he did last year. I think that is the main reason why Coach Gibbs stuck with Brunell so long. Coach Gibbs knows that the protection isn't quite there yet and I think he probably felt more comfortable with a veteran QB who can handle the rush a little better. As I remember, quite a few of Brunells interceptions were a result of him being hit as he threw, however he was still blamed and the blame really should have been put on the O line. As I am sure most of you saw, Ramsey went down rather quickly on a few plays where there was a strong rush, sometimes even before he got hit. This showed me just how timid Ramsey is back there during the rush. And I think this relates to last season's beating he took. I also think the strong pass rush affects Ramsey's decision making. I lost count as to how many passes should have been intercepted because of poor judgement when he was being rushed.

All in all, I think Ramsey should start the rest of the season. Why? Well he has to gain his confidence back somehow. I think Coach Gibbs was right by sticking with Brunell for so long. If we don't win another game this season, I really don't care (except for the Dallas Game of course). I would much rather see Ramsey get his confidence back.

Next year we will get Jansen back and we will need to find another good pass protector or two. I honesty think that if Ramsey can get the protection he will become a good QB. But he also needs to get his confidence back.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]It's good to give stats to support your point but Ramsey was probably sacked more times than any other first year QB. He has had more passes batted down than any other first year starter also.

Had Ramsey played an entire season in his first first year like Manning that TD to INT ratio would have changed. As of now, Ramsey is not a rookie , yet he will continue to make the same mistakes that led him to the bench this year. He looked horrible in preseason and still has to prove himself this week.

After this week, I'm sure the Ramsey bandwagon will die down, because the only way we win is with Portis and not deep passes from Ramsey. 38 carries for 179 yds.[/QUOTE]


Whats your deal with Ramsey SUNRA? Come one man give the guy a chance to prove himself. And why are you comparing him to Manning? Manning was the first overall pick!

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Sunra, I know you don't like Ramsey, but do you stand by your earlier comments (from previous weeks) that Brunell should be the starting QB? Or have you joined the Ramsey "bandwagon?"

P.S. I'm not trying to be smart ass.[/QUOTE]

It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity. Brunell was clearly brought here because Ramsey wasn't ready. Had he been ready, I would have been the first to support him. But I'm not going to blindly follow this unproven guy into a ditch. I'm saying let's wait and see what he develops into in the next weeks because I don't want the excuse to be well he had only seven games he started in and he needs more time. I guarantee you, if Ramsey does not establish some consistency on avoiding the sack and throwing INT's he will not start next year. Gibbs will ask Brunell to re-negotiate his contract and Drew Brees, John Kitna or Quincy Carter might be auditioning for a QB spot.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]So where are you getting your #'s from?

You say it's good to give stats but you go on to say he was "probably" sacked more than any other first year QB which is totaly false, Carr was sacked an NFL record 76 times in his rookie season, thank you.

As for the batted passes I have no idea where you're "probably" getting that number from but I'd be interested to hear your source.[/QUOTE]

My source is the NFL Network. Solomon Wilcotts and Sharpe mentioned his first year stats on the evening show. Probably is not a definite article. It simply means it is a possibility. Remember Ramsey didn't finish the season.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Whats your deal with Ramsey SUNRA? Come one man give the guy a chance to prove himself. And why are you comparing him to Manning? Manning was the first overall pick![/QUOTE

You have to read the thread by Jdlea who first made the comparison between Ramsey and Manning like that's something to brag about. Presently,Manning is the best QB in the league, so why waste time with frivilous comparisons when Ramsey is just getting out of the basement? Some of you guys need to stop counting your eggs before they hatch.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity. [QUOTE]


If you don't like mediocrity, then why did you blindly follow Brunell? I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you defended Brunell left and right and nobody really said anything. But then you got guys in here supporting and defending Ramsey and you're always trying to find something negative about him. Let's remember that Ramsey is 25 years old, so of course he's going to make mistakes, of course he's gonna throw some INT's. Give him some time to mature, then judge him.

We all judge Brunell because he's a veteran, and he's a proven player. He's been in the league for over 10 years and unfortunately we got him right when his play was declining. He came in and stunk up the joint. You have to admit that.

Like I said before, I'm not trying to bust your balls. This isn't a personal attack.

[QUOTE=htownskinfan]yeah,but Carr lasted the whole yr,Ramsey didnt[/QUOTE]

See some people actually understand the point rather than take offense to the point. Thank you, sir.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]See some people actually understand the point rather than take offense to the point. Thank you, sir.[/QUOTE]


No one is taking offense buddy. Calm down.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]See some people actually understand the point rather than take offense to the point. Thank you, sir.[/QUOTE]
What's the point??

Carr lasted the whole year, Ramsey didn't?

Ramsey in his rookie year was yanked in and out of the lineup on a weekly basis.

Carr was left in to take his bumps while Spurrier played musical chairs at QB.

So what's the point?

[QUOTE=Redskins_P][QUOTE=SUNRA]It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity. [QUOTE]


If you don't like mediocrity, then why did you blindly follow Brunell? I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you defended Brunell left and right and nobody really said anything. But then you got guys in here supporting and defending Ramsey and you're always trying to find something negative about him. Let's remember that Ramsey is 25 years old, so of course he's going to make mistakes, of course he's gonna throw some INT's. Give him some time to mature, then judge him.

We all judge Brunell because he's a veteran, and he's a proven player. He's been in the league for over 10 years and unfortunately we got him right when his play was declining. He came in and stunk up the joint. You have to admit that.

Are you serious? I was battling week after week on posts concerning Brunell. There's no truth in that statement at all is it Matty? :boxing:

I don't think you paid attention to my argument. I am not a Brunell fan. I supported Gibbs's decision to play Brunell because he had no option with Ramsey after the Giants game. While a lot of you criticized Gibbs and questioned his decision, I stayed the course and now you should see and understand by now. Many cried and moaned to get Ramsey in there, and tell me what your emotions were when he threw his first INT or took his first of many sacks or maybe his 6 potential INTs? Take your pick.

How much time should I give Ramsey? 7 games? Or maybe I should overlook this season and just focus on the off-season. Judge Ramsey by the same criteria that you judge Brunell or any other QB. The fact remains that Ramsey hasn't done anything.

I wasn't trying to say that Ramsey was going to be better than Manning. All I was trying to point out was that Ramsey accomplished a feat by throwing more Touchdowns than picks in his first year as a starter! Manning is the best QB in the league and he couldn't do it. I don't think Ramsey will be better than Manning, but I do think Ramsey will be a good quarterback. If he isn't, I think it is the fault of Steve Spurrier and Joe Gibbs. He has heart and a strong arm. He's inherited a 17 point deficit and a 13 point deficit this season and people on this site have tried to crucify him for throwing picks...well no sh#t he's gonna throw some picks because he's trying to force things to get them back into the game.

Also, it took him a while to get going because he hadn't played in months and he was a slow starter last season, too. That didn't surprise me. All in all, he did get going and didn't play too bad. He'll only get better with time.

Personally I'm willing to live with some INT's and sacks. That's what happens when you commit to a young QB.

Brunell was totally ineffective and he had his share of turnovers too, so the tradeoff is at least Ramsey can get the ball down the field.

All the great ones take their lumps early in their careers, well except for Roethlisberger but he's the exception.

Unless he just absolutely stinks up the joint for these last 7 games, I'm willing to give him a good part of next season too along with these 7 games to take his lumps.

There's only one way we're going to find out if Ramsey can get it done. And that's to give him an honest shot. He hasn't had that yet, not under Spurrier and definitely not yet with Gibbs. Even Gibbs admits he's thrown him into some really tough situations this season.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What's the point??

Carr lasted the whole year, Ramsey didn't?

Ramsey in his rookie year was yanked in and out of the lineup on a weekly basis.

Carr was left in to take his bumps while Spurrier played musical chairs at QB.

So what's the point?[/QUOTE]

The point is that comparing Ramsey to other more successful QB's is a waste of time. I can hear the excuses now because there will be excuses. I'm looking at next season for another veteran QB. Gibbs said, as long as it takes to return this team to a winning team." I have waited 12 seasons and I'll just have to wait one or two more.

Ramsey's bad 2.5 quarters neted more passing yards than Brunell's last two games. Give the guy some time!

[QUOTE=SUNRA][QUOTE=Redskins_P][QUOTE=SUNRA]It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity. [QUOTE]


Are you serious? I was battling week after week on posts concerning Brunell. There's no truth in that statement at all is it Matty? :boxing:

I don't think you paid attention to my argument. I am not a Brunell fan. I supported Gibbs's decision to play Brunell because he had no option with Ramsey after the Giants game. While a lot of you criticized Gibbs and questioned his decision, I stayed the course and now you should see and understand by now. Many cried and moaned to get Ramsey in there, and tell me what your emotions were when he threw his first INT or took his first of many sacks or maybe his 6 potential INTs? Take your pick.

How much time should I give Ramsey? 7 games? Or maybe I should overlook this season and just focus on the off-season. Judge Ramsey by the same criteria that you judge Brunell or any other QB. The fact remains that Ramsey hasn't done anything.[/QUOTE]

I have never once criticized Gibbs. I know you weren't referring to me. I hope you were talking about ZackMills :Smoker:

I'll pick Ramsey....he was way more upside than Brunell or Hasselbeck.

[QUOTE=jdlea]I wasn't trying to say that Ramsey was going to be better than Manning. All I was trying to point out was that Ramsey accomplished a feat by throwing more Touchdowns than picks in his first year as a starter! Manning is the best QB in the league and he couldn't do it. I don't think Ramsey will be better than Manning, but I do think Ramsey will be a good quarterback. If he isn't, I think it is the fault of Steve Spurrier and Joe Gibbs. He has heart and a strong arm. He's inherited a 17 point deficit and a 13 point deficit this season and people on this site have tried to crucify him for throwing picks...well no sh#t he's gonna throw some picks because he's trying to force things to get them back into the game.

Also, it took him a while to get going because he hadn't played in months and he was a slow starter last season, too. That didn't surprise me. All in all, he did get going and didn't play too bad. He'll only get better with time.[/QUOTE]
I understand your what you're trying to say with the Manning comparison.

Here are the numbers for their first 16 starts of their careers:

Ramsey: 296/564, 52.5%, 3705 yards, 23 TD's 17 INT's

Manning: 326/575 56.7%, 3739 yards, 26 TD's 28 INT's

And just for good measure,

Carr: 233/444, 52.5%, 2592 yards, 9 TD's 15 INT's

It's pretty rare for a QB to have more TD's than INT's so early in their career, yet somehow Ramsey has been pegged for being an INT machine lately.

I'd be willing to bet that under different circumstances he wouldn't have even attempted some of the throws that have resulted in INT's for him this year. Problem is he's come in to the game with the team way behind and he's forced some things to try to make things happen.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Personally I'm willing to live with some INT's and sacks. That's what happens when you commit to a young QB.

Brunell was totally ineffective and he had his share of turnovers too, so the tradeoff is at least Ramsey can get the ball down the field.

All the great ones take their lumps early in their careers, well except for Roethlisberger but he's the exception.

Unless he just absolutely stinks up the joint for these last 7 games, I'm willing to give him a good part of next season too along with these 7 games to take his lumps.

There's only one way we're going to find out if Ramsey can get it done. And that's to give him an honest shot. He hasn't had that yet, not under Spurrier and definitely not yet with Gibbs. Even Gibbs admits he's thrown him into some really tough situations this season.[/QUOTE]

As Tre Johnson said on the Redskins show, "Ramsey is paid to come in and give his team a lift when the other QB isn't. It's not a unique phenomenon, to have a QB come in from behind and win a game. I'm not that understanding of turnovers for someone who is not a rookie in the first place. Secondly, a good QB would approach this mid-season change as a way to make Gibbs a believer in him. Ramsey's preparation in practice was questioned by Bugel and I see why. When a reporter asked Ramsey after the game if he thought he would get a chance to play after the consistenly bad performances of Brunell? He actually said, No. I didn't really think I would play. How in the hell did he not think he would get a chance to play? If he thought like that, his preparation in practice was not all that great.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I understand your what you're trying to say with the Manning comparison.

Here are the numbers for their first 16 starts of their careers:

Ramsey: 296/564, 52.5%, 3705 yards, 23 TD's 17 INT's

Manning: 326/575 56.7%, 3739 yards, 26 TD's 28 INT's

And just for good measure,

Carr: 233/444, 52.5%, 2592 yards, 9 TD's 15 INT's

It's pretty rare for a QB to have more TD's than INT's so early in their career, yet somehow Ramsey has been pegged for being an INT machine lately.




I'd be willing to bet that under different circumstances he wouldn't have even attempted some of the throws that have resulted in INT's for him this year. Problem is he's come in to the game with the team way behind and he's forced some things to try to make things happen.[/QUOTE]


Thanks Matty.. :biggthump

[QUOTE=SUNRA]As Tre Johnson said on the Redskins show, "Ramsey is paid to come in and give his team a lift when the other QB isn't. It's not a unique phenomenon, to have a QB come in from behind and win a game. I'm not that understanding of turnovers for someone who is not a rookie in the first place. Secondly, a good QB would approach this mid-season change as a way to make Gibbs a believer in him. Ramsey's preparation in practice was questioned by Bugel and I see why. When a reporter asked Ramsey after the game if he thought he would get a chance to play after the consistenly bad performances of Brunell? He actually said, No. I didn't really think I would play. How in the hell did he not think he would get a chance to play? If he thought like that, his preparation in practice was not all that great.[/QUOTE]

His preparation in practice? He only gets 10% of the reps.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I understand your what you're trying to say with the Manning comparison.

Here are the numbers for their first 16 starts of their careers:

Ramsey: 296/564, 52.5%, 3705 yards, 23 TD's 17 INT's

Manning: 326/575 56.7%, 3739 yards, 26 TD's 28 INT's

And just for good measure,

Carr: 233/444, 52.5%, 2592 yards, 9 TD's 15 INT's

It's pretty rare for a QB to have more TD's than INT's so early in their career, yet somehow Ramsey has been pegged for being an INT machine lately.

I'd be willing to bet that under different circumstances he wouldn't have even attempted some of the throws that have resulted in INT's for him this year. Problem is he's come in to the game with the team way behind and he's forced some things to try to make things happen.[/QUOTE]

It's interesting how you want to use Ramsey's rookie stats to promote his cause. But if I mention his losses compared to his wins in that year, is that blasphemy? Your are as good as the last game you play. Criticize Ramsey's play after the Eagles game the same way Brunell was criticized after each game. Just be fair.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]It's interesting how you want to use Ramsey's rookie stats to promote his cause. But if I mention his losses compared to his wins in that year, is that blasphemy? Your are as good as the last game you play. Criticize Ramsey's play after the Eagles game the same way Brunell was criticized after each game. Just be fair.[/QUOTE]Actually those numbers are from his first [u]16 starts[/u], not just his rookie season.

It's not fair to judge Brunell and Ramsey on the same level.

Brunell is an 11 year vet, Ramsey is 25 and only has limited experience.

Sorry but an 11 year vet is going to be held to a higher standard than someone who will be making just his 17th career start.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]His preparation in practice? He only gets 10% of the reps.[/QUOTE]

He gets 10% of the reps with the first team or 10% in practice as a whole?

If the first true, he's getting practice with somebody or Bugel would not have made that statement. Look, he's not a baby. If he's practicing with the second team at least he got to throw to McCants . I don't think he still understands the playbook and that has caused a lot of problems for him.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]He gets 10% of the reps with the first team or 10% in practice as a whole?

If the first true, he's getting practice with somebody or Bugel would not have made that statement. Look, he's not a baby. If he's practicing with the second team at least he got to throw to McCants . I don't think he still understands the playbook and that has caused a lot of problems for him.[/QUOTE]


You could be right, but I thought Gibbs said that Ramsey was a good student of the game and that he studies his film and playbook.

I'm not saying he's a baby, but you want us to be fair with Brunell? Can you be fair with Ramsey?

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Actually those numbers are from his first [u]16 starts[/u], not just his rookie season.

It's not fair to judge Brunell and Ramsey on the same level.

Brunell is an 11 year vet, Ramsey is 25 and only has limited experience.

Sorry but an 11 year vet is going to be held to a higher standard than someone who will be making just his 17th career start.[/QUOTE

Your record says who you are. If he's a starter he's held to the same standard as a veteran. They don't a have one column for 3 year QB's and another for 11 year veterans.

[quote]Your record says who you are. If he's a starter he's held to the same standard as a veteran. They don't a have one column for 3 year QB's and another for 11 year veterans.[/QUOTE]
There's much more to evaluating a QB than just the won-loss record.

Craig Krenzel is 3-0 this year for the Bears with a QB rating of 49.0, is he Pro Bowl bound?

Doubt it.

I, personally feel bad for Mark Brunell. We all killed him for weeks, announcers killed him and fans at the stadium killed him with criticism and boos. I don't feel bad about it, but I do feel bad for the man. It's not his fault he can't get it done anymore.

You can mention Ramsey's record in 16 starts all you want:

Manning 3-13
Carr 5-11
Ramsey 6-10

And he got knocked out of his last start. That's pretty consistent with other young quarterbacks wouldn't you say?

I do feel bad for Brunell, that said, he needed to be pulled regardless of his feelings.

[quote=SUNRA]You have to read the thread by Jdlea who first made the comparison between Ramsey and Manning like that's something to brag about. Presently,Manning is the best QB in the league, so why waste time with frivilous comparisons when Ramsey is just getting out of the basement? Some of you guys need to stop counting your eggs before they hatch.[/quote]

its worth noting that his start was at least as good as some more prominent names, and helps prove that he has an honest shot to be worthwhile. no rookie QB (cept roth) is really that great from the start... it takes time. You've followed brunell and blamed him not getting it done on the WRs, the OLine, and the defense for not scoring... now ramsey comes in and you turn around and immediately crucify him, what gives?

all the stats show that he has the potential, you say he hasn't done anything; HE HAS, but if you don't give him an honest shot, he won't really be able to improve much now will he?

and the ONLY one on this board calling ramsey an "INT machine" is SUNRA, others have brought up more ints (but brunell had tons of turn overs himself), but SUNRA is the only person that has post after post about how horrible ramsey is and the massive sacks and ints and suffering he'll inflict on the team. pleasee chill and give him some time... I'd bring up more stats, but you obviously haven't cared or given them ANY regard thusfar, and last time I got a nice two paragraph flaming for even mentioning them (you have yet to refute ANY of those points i've made btw), so i'll can that for now and just say i disagree and i'm not sure why you're so determined to trash ramsey in every post...