Hey Gibbs, You Need a New Playbook
 

I'm not going to say that Gibbs is a failure. I'm not going to say that we would be better off has Spurrier stayed with us. I'm not stupid or irrational.

However, I'm not going to blindly follow Gibbs wherever he takes us. We are fielding the worst offense in the NFC and probably in the entire league (the Dolphins are almost as pathetic). We haven't scored 20 points in 1 game! Isn't Gibbs the offensive mastermind?

I'm not sure if he knows that Ramsey is capable of throwing the ball past the first down sticks. When you are down by 14 points with 10 minutes of football left, you shouldn't be running a dink and dunk offense. This was the first game this season where I saw a good pocket formed on 9 out of 10 plays. Ramsey had the time to throw deep, the recievers have the speed to run deep, and Ramsey has the arm to throw deep. So why all the 5 yard passes? I DON'T believe that Ramsey was simply checking down.

Gibbs is about ball-control and I understand that he doesn't fully trust Ramsey right now. So, I can accept that Gibbs isn't going to call a bunch of 20 yard posts. But, when you're offense stinks, as ours did today, shouldn't you make some adjustments?

I didn't see anything in Gibbs' playcalling that told me that he has seen that his system hasn't been working, he took notice of that, and he made the appropriate changes in his playcalling. That gives me some serious pause and makes me nervous.

I don't know how everyone else feels about the playcalling, but I personally think Gibbs needs a new playbook.

Well, on the other hand this dink and dunk offense had us in the game for a good part of it, if it wasn't for some horrible penalties in the redzone, 12 penalties and a lot of dropped passes, who knows, maybe we pull it out.

A lack of execution on the players' part is just as much to blame right now in my opinion.

I would add a third option to the poll, the execution AND the playcalling both need to improve.

yeah and if u arent a threat to get the ball downfield CP certainly cant do everything. 8, 9 men in the box and call it a game. whatever happened to lettin these guys make plays, threadin the needle. i understand it can be like a chess game for the coach but look at manning chuckin it through all kinds of coverge. see chad johnson just snag that rock today? i dont think we've had hardly any real playmaker type plays since the first run of the season... it sux

I agree Matty that the players deserve a good portion of the blame for our woes. I just also feel that Gibbs' playcalling warrants some criticism.

Playcalling or not... one thing I got out of today's game was the penalties have got to stop. We had Ill Proc called enough to rewrite the definition of the violation. And when are we going to give Ray Brown the heave-ho. He's too damn old and slow to be playing OT. Give him a six-pack and a bag of chips and let him watch next week's game on TV!

I think we learned today that no matter who our QB is, it doesn't matter. Ramsey did a good job of moving the ball, but then we had Gardner drop at least 4 passes. Samuels had at least 4 penalties himself. Gibbs was right the whole time. It's not the QB it's the whole team.....especially the O-line. And then when we do get time, receivers drop the ball. I do think that Gibbs should alter his playbook, but it all falls on the players executing....and they're not doing that. They haven't been doing that for the past 3 years.


Sorry about that rant. I'm a little f-ed up right now. I need the alcohol to numb the pain!

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I agree Matty that the players deserve a good portion of the blame for our woes. I just also feel that Gibbs' playcalling warrants some criticism.[/QUOTE]
I agree, and that's what I said in my post above.

But the name of the thread is Hey Gibbs, you need a new playbook.

How about adding on to that, Hey Rod, catch some damn passes, hey Portis, catch the damn ball, hey Betts, catch the damn ball, hey Ray Brown, stop jumping offsides in the redzone, hey Ola, hit a damn FG, etc.

I can't agree with the criticism of Ray Brown. The guy held Strahan to ZERO sacks and Kearse to one sack that came on a play when Ramsey rushed up the middle. Ray Brown has done a very good job.

I thought the pass protection was the best it's been since.......Gibbs' first tenure.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I can't agree with the criticism of Ray Brown. The guy held Strahan to ZERO sacks and Kearse to one sack that came on a play when Ramsey rushed up the middle. Ray Brown has done a very good job.

I thought the pass protection was the best it's been since.......Gibbs' first tenure.[/QUOTE]
He's also KILLED us in the redzone this year with moving before the snap. To me that negates the otherwise solid job he's done. Today wasn't the first time he's pushed us back on stupid penalties inside the 10. He's making rookie mental errors.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I agree, and that's what I said in my post above.

But the name of the thread is Hey Gibbs, you need a new playbook.

How about adding on to that, Hey Rod, catch some damn passes, hey Portis, catch the damn ball, hey Betts, catch the damn ball, hey Ray Brown, stop jumping offsides in the redzone, hey Ola, hit a damn FG, etc.[/QUOTE]


Samuels too. He killed us in the redzone.

Right at the begining of the game Gibbs should have had Ramsy air it out 3 or four times to get those 7 or eight guys out of the box. He should have mixed it up the entire game.

This total conservative aproach is so painfull to watch.

I wonder if Gibbs remembers what a shotgun is??

Ramsey had an OK game, which is light years ahead of Brunell. I have to say that the play calling was absolutely atrocious. THE WORST. Honestly, Marty Schottenhiemer's O was not this conservative... You've gotta give Portis more touches, You've gotta try somthing other than wide receiver screens. And how about the REFEREES????!!!! Pinkston stepped out of bounds 2 yards before the 1st down marker, but apparently the refs from the MNF Cowboys game were working todays game as well. HE WAS OUT OF BOUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! Oh and how about the Focking phantom PI call on Smoot????!!!!! The guy tripped. Just great!

I seriously think that we should receive compensation in the form of an extra first round pick next year. SERIOUSLY. How can one team be this GD cursed? I'm not going to go off on my grassy nole, but the league OWES us BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, almost forgot... I think the sheer number of dropped passes and penalties in crucial situations is just ridiculous. Thanks for ripping our collective hearts out and stomping it to death. Thanks alot.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]He's also KILLED us in the redzone this year with moving before the snap. To me that negates the otherwise solid job he's done. Today wasn't the first time he's pushed us back on stupid penalties inside the 10. He's making rookie mental errors.[/QUOTE]
And I think that's mostly because he knows he's older than the guys he lines up against and is trying to get a step ahead so he doesn't get burned. He's trying to compensate for losing a step from age and sometimes he gets caught. Unfortunately for us, when he does get caught it usually kills us.

[QUOTE=WRedskins04]I wonder if Gibbs remembers what a shotgun is??[/QUOTE]
He doesn't use it. He briefly experimented with it in '84, but he quickly scrapped it.

Even if we used shotgun it wouldn't work. Our QB would get killed.

That penalty orgy starting at the 10 yard line didn't help the situation either.

[QUOTE=rickmmrr]Right at the begining of the game Gibbs should have had Ramsy air it out 3 or four times to get those 7 or eight guys out of the box. He should have mixed it up the entire game.

This total conservative aproach is so painfull to watch.[/QUOTE]

Yet last week people (and I'm not saying you rickmmrr) were complaining that Gibbs should have run more and wasn't being conservative enough to start the game

Is it just me, or did pass protection look good today? Ramsey (aka mini-Bledsoe) got sacked once. So what's up with all the criticism of the O-line (aside from penalties)?

I'm sorry but what is up with "hey Gibbs, you need a new playbook"

While I understand not following a coach (or Quarterback) blindly, us LONG time Redskins fans happen to know what Joe Gibbs is capable of doing for this team and those who are buying into the media bandwagon that the game has passed him by know absolutely nothing about football.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Yet last week people (and I'm not saying you rickmmrr) were complaining that Gibbs should have run more and wasn't being conservative enough to start the game[/QUOTE]I was about to say the same thing.

Just just can't win, LOL.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For every situation there will always be someone to second guess it.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Is it just me, or did pass protection look good today? Ramsey (aka mini-Bledsoe) got sacked once. So what's up with all the criticism of the O-line (aside from penalties)?[/QUOTE]
Nada, aside from the penalties. But I can't help but wonder if the complexion of the game takes on a whole different tone if we don't get nailed for 20 pen yds on 3 plays from that 1st and goal on the 10. I thought the O-line did a great job of protection today and I was surprised that Coach didn't have us throwing downfield sooner in game when it looked like the line was gonna hold. But then again, it looked like on a lot of the throws downfield the timing was still off between PR and recievers.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Is it just me, or did pass protection look good today? Ramsey (aka mini-Bledsoe) got sacked once. So what's up with all the criticism of the O-line (aside from penalties)?[/QUOTE]
Pass protection was better than it's been, but I thought the run blocking was pretty piss poor a lot of the time. We were getting blown up on some running plays leaving the backs nowhere to go or a defender right in their face once they received the handoff.

Aside from the penalties? Like that wasn't a big deal?

How many penalties did the line have today? It was quite a few.

Gibbs was trying to establish a ball controlled game plan that would feature our best offensive player, Portis, while keeping the Eagles' offense OFF the field. Seems like a wiser game plan to me. If we took more shots downfield (which a few more than maybe we have had) then you could be looking at more three and outs and less time of possession...which giving it to the Eagles O more is just not smart.

There were several false starts....

Hey Skinsguy,

1. I am a LONG time Redskins fan

2. We haven't scored 20 points yet

3. We haven't scored so few points per game since the 1930s!
*FYI - FDR was the President then

I've been pretty reasonable in my assessments of Gibbs. I've said and still say that he will turn this team around. I've said that the game hasn't passed Gibbs by. I've said he's a great man and he has a brilliant mind.

But excuse me if I criticize him. Have you been watching our offense? It has NEVER looked this bad (at least in my 26 years of existence). The playcalling is awful. Do you disagree? If you think the playcalling has been good, we should just agree to disagree because there is no common ground between the two of us.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I was about to say the same thing.

Just just can't win, LOL.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For every situation there will always be someone to second guess it.[/QUOTE]

Who? I don't recall anyone saying that.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Pass protection was better than it's been, but I thought the run blocking was pretty piss poor a lot of the time. We were getting blown up on some running plays leaving the backs nowhere to go or a defender right in their face once they received the handoff.

Aside from the penalties? Like that wasn't a big deal?

How many penalties did the line have today? It was quite a few.[/QUOTE]

The penalties didn't cause us to lose the game. They killed one drive and one scoring opportunity. We got spanked.

The playcalling was dreadful and, IMO, that was the #1 (although not the only) reason why we lost.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I was about to say the same thing.

Just just can't win, LOL.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For every situation there will always be someone to second guess it.[/QUOTE]

You got the "just can't win" part right. At 3-7, I think Gibbs deserves to be second guessed. If we were 7-3 no one would be second guessing him.

But, we're not 7-3 - hence the criticism.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Who? I don't recall anyone saying that.[/QUOTE]Huh?

There were many people and a couple of threads talking about how we should have pounded it against Cincy last week.

We tried to come out throwing and before we knew it the score was 14-0.

This week we had a stronger commitment to running and kept the game close for a good portion of it. I still say this game came down to execution. We had a few breakdowns at key times that really cost us the game.

Could the offense have been a bit more wide open? Yeah I agree it could have, but for the most part it was a solid gameplan that kept us in the game, and it was poor execution that led to our 2nd half collapse.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]The penalties didn't cause us to lose the game. They killed one drive and one scoring opportunity. [/QUOTE]

They killed a scoring drive that would have put us within one, possibly tied (with a 2 point conversion) and a questionable PI on Smoot put the Eagles in the Red Zone and another questionable call (Pinkston out of bounds) kept a drive alive

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. The bottom line is we got spanked.
The penalties didn't kill us.

Don't get me wrong, they definately hurt us, but the really bad penalties were limited to 2 drives. Those 2 drives didn't make or break the game for us.

As for the bad calls, they were both questionable. I don't think the replay showed that Pinkston's foot was beyond a shadow of a doubt out of bounds. The PI call against Smoot was bad, but it wasn't a decisive factor in the game either.

We simply got outplayed and outcoached.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Huh?

There were many people and a couple of threads talking about how we should have pounded it against Cincy last week.[/QUOTE]

I guess I missed all those threads.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Hey Skinsguy,

I've said he's a great man and he has a brilliant mind.

But excuse me if I criticize him. Have you been watching our offense? It has NEVER looked this bad (at least in my 26 years of existence). The playcalling is awful. Do you disagree? If you think the playcalling has been good, we should just agree to disagree because there is no common ground between the two of us.[/QUOTE]

He's a brilliant man, but "hey Joe Gibbs, you need a new playbook!"??? Let me tell you, there is nothing wrong with his playcalling. We have had low output this year because for one thing, Brunnell has sucked, another thing we have had tons of injuries, receivers have been very very inconsistant. I have witnessed Gibbs being even more conservative with his play calling in the past and we still scored points! Gibbs is bringing Ramsey around slowly...its just plain stupid to put him in there and tell him to throw bombs down the field on every pass play. What good is it for Ramsey to throw interceptions down the field and give the ball back to an offense like the Eagles have? That is just plain stupid. I guess we will have to agree to disagree because I know what Joe Gibbs is doing and I know that in the long haul it's going to work just fine.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I guess I missed all those threads.[/QUOTE]
I guess you're gonna make me search through the forum, LOL

Here's some of what I was talking about, posts talking about how we should have run more

[url="http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.php?p=48247&postcount=472"]http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.php?p=48247&postcount=472[/url]

[url="http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.php?p=48389&postcount=474"]http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.php?p=48389&postcount=474[/url]

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Shoulda, coulda, woulda. The bottom line is we got spanked.
The penalties didn't kill us.

Don't get me wrong, they definately hurt us, but the really bad penalties were limited to 2 drives. Those 2 drives didn't make or break the game for us.[/QUOTE]

Well I get what you're saying but I think that drive where we had first and goal at the 10 and had to settle for a 48 yard miss by Kimrin was the turning point in the game and the penalties on that drive effectively killed us

I know that the game didn't end on that drive but I'm just saying that I think it played a much bigger role than we're saying it did

Here's a thread I found on the playcalling last week: [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=3723&page=1&pp=15&highlight=bengals[/url]

And I remember the actual game thread having a lot of comments as well

mabye if we ran the screen pass to a receiver a few more times..... People at the bar that wernt even watching the game kept commenting to me on how many times we ran that play.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Well I get what you're saying but I think that drive where we had first and goal at the 10 and had to settle for a 48 yard miss by Kimrin was the turning point in the game and the penalties on that drive effectively killed us

I know that the game didn't end on that drive but I'm just saying that I think it played a much bigger role than we're saying it did

Here's a thread I found on the playcalling last week: [url="http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=3723&page=1&pp=15&highlight=bengals"]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=3723&page=1&pp=15&highlight=bengals[/url]

And I remember the actual game thread having a lot of comments as well[/QUOTE]
I guess RF missed that one too ;)

First, I want to let you know that I hope the tone of my posts are "nice." If they come off rude or obnoxious, just PM me because I'm not meaning them to.

Second, I never said that Gibbs should have Ramsey "throw bombs on every pass play."

Third, I also know what Joe Gibbs is doing and it's not good. Thirteen points per game is awful. You change the QBs and our offense still stinks. You change the olinemen and our offense still stinks. You rotate the wideouts and the offense still stinks. Something stinks and its the playcalling.

Fourth, I also think Gibbs will get it right in the long haul.

Fifth, you can say that Gibbs is brilliant but the playbook sucks. I never said Gibbs was an omniscient, omnipotent God. I said he was brilliant and he, like anyone else, can make mistakes. It just appears that no one thinks he can do any wrong.

Some people think Gibbs needs to retire and I strongly disagree. But for every one of those people, you have someone who, under no circumstances, will EVER criticize Gibbs because of the 3 Super Bowl trophies. To me, that doesn't make sense either.

I try to look at Gibbs objectively and I like certain things about him and dislike certain things about him (as a coach). He's a great person and is indeed brilliant, but his playcalling hasn't been.

It's Not Just the Awful Playcalling, but . . .
 

the pure stubborness in letting Brunell stay in as the starter for so long. Way beyond when he should have been benched.

And the playcalling today was every bit as bad as that of last week.

I have always loved Gibbs and what he did for this franchise, but I must say that I am really beginning to get cvery, very concerned about his approach to the game, primarily on offense.

I feel that we're playing in a time warp and that the Gibbs offense of the 80's (which is a lot of what we're seeing now), just does not work in today's NFL. But, the worst part of it is that I fear that Gibbs thinks it will eventually succeed, so he's going to stick with it. Just as he stuck with Brunell just long enough to ruin our season.

It's not coincidental that the part of the team that is doing very well is the defense -coached by a relatively young guy who's been part of the NFL for the past several years. And the part of the team that truly stinks is being coached by two old timers - Gibbs and Bugel.

I'm just not sure that they're up to the task anymore. Gibbs gives no indication that he has anything else up his sleeve other than fielding two wideouts. Today's game is very much different from what Gibbs left when he retired and I don't think he sees that.

Even Spurrier's offense was more exciting and generated more scores than Gibbs's does and that's a scary statement to have to make.

I've watched the Skins for over 30 years and can't ever remember a time when the offense looked so anemic.

I love Gibbs, but after what I've seen, I wonder if he can still get the job done. I knows there are those of you out there who truly believe he'll get things turned around and I sincerely hope you're right. But, what if the thing that needs to get "turned around" is Gibbs himself?