Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Our loss today exposed our strengths and weaknesses very well. The most crucial element exposed are in our OL and DL. We do not have a nose tackle, which means that teams will run on us until we commit extra resources to stop the run. Once we do that, the D becomes vulnerable to play action, which happened last week with the Austin touchdown along with the multiple bootlegs today.

Our OL is much improved in pass pro, but we are still suffering from a combo of a scheme shift and general mediocrity in the depth and interior of the line. The lack of a running game killed us today, and almost did us in last week. We are not going to win the Super Bowl with the current status quo, although we are much closer than we were a year ago.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I couldn't agree more. Gibbs won championships being able to play smashmouth football. This running game is downright anemic, and it's not because Portis isn't running hard. Allen can probably draft a stud guard or center with the 2nd round pick.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SouperMeister;736101]I couldn't agree more. Gibbs won championships being able to play smashmouth football. This running game is downright anemic, and it's not because Portis isn't running hard. Allen can probably draft a stud guard or center with the 2nd round pick.[/quote]

You do have to account that they are still learning the nuances of cut blocking in the zone scheme, but year, we need some athletic big guys develop. The OL isn't awful like Chicago's but we need better fits and better depth.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I think that if you want to invest anywhere look for someone special at Guard. Maybe get a slight upgrade at backup over Heyer. However I'm not to concerned with our running game. The situations haven't really worked in our favor. Last week we didn't have a whole lot of possession and this week, passing was way to easy. Once the ground game got going the Texans held on to the ball like their life depended on it.

The only really upgrades I can think of, that are worth pursuing next offseason, are a young talented back and a Trent Williams like Guard. That play though by Larry Johnson was flat out pathetic. I'd like to see more from Keiland Williams. The guy is physically a beast and has little wear and tear on him. The main thing is we don't need to give up draft picks for VJax todays game proved that. Instead we need to invest on defense and maybe on a special Running back prospect.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I didn't see the game I was at work but I heard the DL did struggle a bit. I wonder if Shanny will change his stance on Big Al after this game if they actually played that bad?

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;736118][B]I didn't see the game I was at work[/B] but I heard the DL did struggle a bit. I wonder if Shanny will change his stance on Big Al after this game if they actually played that bad?[/quote]

Leave, leave now. You r no tru fanz. u r disgraze. I haz disapoint in youz.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Yes we do need to shore up the trenches. We are getting there, but it will take time.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736120]Leave, leave now. You r no tru fanz. u r disgraze. I haz disapoint in youz.[/quote]

LOL!!! C'mon man my kids gotta eat Dirt plus it was either the Dallas or Texans game I picked to watch the Dallas game.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;736118]I didn't see the game I was at work but I heard the DL did struggle a bit. I wonder if Shanny will change his stance on Big Al after this game if they actually played that bad?[/quote]It was more than D line play, it was a lot of little things that didn't salt this game away:[LIST][*]Jammal's false start on 3rd and 1[*]Fred Davis's weak block on the edge that allowed the blocked FG[*]Donovan missing WIDE open Joey Galloway.[/LIST]I'm more disappointed that the offense went dormant after dominating for 3 quarters. Perhaps better O-line play will allow us to win this type of game by running out the clock. This offense is even more dependent on the passing game that Philly was with Donovan.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;736137]LOL!!! C'mon man my kids gotta eat Dirt plus it was either the Dallas or Texans game I picked to watch the Dallas game.[/quote]

No no, it's all good. You really should look into weather or not your kids can live off passing yards. Quite the feast today.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

The problem I saw was that the Redskins tried blitzing all the time and every
time they did Houston adjusted by throwing a screen or a short pass or a nice TD to Andre johnson. Our D allowed a hell of lot of yards, unacceptable!! We need a running game badly.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

NT is a major need...crucial in this scheme. We are getting nothing at it...

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Guys...this game was lost because of Defense....you cant give up 17 points in as many minutes when you have a 3 score lead....the defense lost the game last week too...although we won on a technicality.
This new scheme aint working too well...something we all were concerned with...look at the numbers...as much as I hate to say it....at this point...Blache's defense is still better than this 3-4 with our stud DT sitting on the bench.

I will take 27 points all day long...offense was fine...sure our redzone ability to get passing TD's is still bad...but that could be play calling...and yeah, we can't run but with a passing attack with weak WR...I am not complaining.

It is the complete inability of our Defense to hold a lead that scares me....last week we could have been gashed on the ground...this week, we were torn apart in the air...
My greatest concern overall starting the season was ability to run and stop the run....add to that ability to stop the pass too...hopefully this new problem is just a one week issue.

C'mon Haslett...fix this now.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;736157]The problem I saw was that the Redskins tried blitzing all the time and every
time they did Houston adjusted by throwing a screen or a short pass or a nice TD to Andre johnson. Our D allowed a hell of lot of yards, unacceptable!! We need a running game badly.[/quote]I must say that I love the way they use Landry on the blitz - hopefully his wrist isn't broken, because he is definitely one of the wild cards on this defense. As for the jump ball TD to Andre Johnson, I would have liked our chances a lot more with Kareem Moore back there. We need him to return ASAP because Doughty and Horton are serious liabilities in space.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736152]No no, it's all good. You really should look into weather or not your kids can live off passing yards. Quite the feast today.[/quote]

I see they went to overtime so I know they will be on NFLN Replay. I heard the secondary struggled again 497 yards in the air. Maybe I was in the minority but why didn't we go after FS O.J. Atogwe that was coached by Haslett? He was a pretty good player for the Rams.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Chico23231;736158]NT is a major need...crucial in this scheme. We are getting nothing at it...[/quote]

I don't know, NT's aren't really pass rushers, which is part of the reason Haynesworth was so resistant to the prospect of playing NT. We allowed only 3.6 YPC against a 200 yard rusher on 19 attempts. If anything the secondary needs to get better.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Chico23231;736158]NT is a major need...crucial in this scheme. We are getting nothing at it...[/quote]

Yeah, I would agree with that. We all thought we were getting a steal with Ma'ake Kemoeatu coming back from injury for cheap, but I feel like it's getting more obvious he's not cut out for NT any more. And I do feel like we will get better once Kareem Moore is back on the field. Reed Doughty shouldn't play free safety any more. Play him at SS or not at all, and we shouldn't have to see him at strong unless LL gets injured.

And I don't know what it is but we need to shore up our run defense. It improved in the second half this week but it's no wonder they pass for almost 500 yards when they gashed us in the run almost all day.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

In regards to the running game: What was everyone around here saying last week?

- Man we don't have any receivers
- Galloway is useless.
- Trade for VJax.

This week we throw for 400+ yards between 8 receivers. 7 of which had over 30 yards. Galloway would have had a monster day had McNabb thrown that deep post just a foot shorter.

The running game will emerge against St. Louis. I promise you that. The defense will look great to of course that won't be to comforting but you get my drift.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I think our biggest problem so far has been general confusion in the secondary. I mean we're talking 8-10 plays this year where I, with an untrained eye and the lack of game film, have noticed open WRs simply because of poor secondary play. Too many times a guy is released into a zone and there is no safety there to pick up coverage. Either the CBs need to stop releasing everyone or the safeties need to stop biting on the play action or picking up the wrong WR. That has to stop. I know it's new scheme and that is the issue but they HAVE to improve on that.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Defense allowed 526 yards, 468 yards came at the expense of our secondary. Too much blitzing by our secondary doesn't leave for protection against receivers.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I agree. Rabach is garbage (see first quarter), Dock is average at best and we need another stud tackle.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

I agree with what others have said.

We need a G and a C on the Oline, I did not get a good view of this game as I watching it from the CPU and it is a little grainy. Did Kory L get in the game this week?

Our problems on the DL are still some what abudant. AH or not we need a real NT, and another End to go with Carriker. Adam C can be good here.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;736210]I agree. Rabach is garbage (see first quarter), Dock is average at best and we need another stud tackle.[/quote]

I can't think of any team with 3 stud tackles (we are ridiculously lucky to have Williams and Brown on the same team). Maybe 2 studs and a good backup but no one has had 3 since the Hogs. Heyer is a decent backup at RT. At LT he's a liability. It would be great though if Capers developed next year at either Guard or Tackle. Preferably Guard since that would be his best chance to start.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

A replacement for Rabach.
OL depth
Nose tackle
Help at safety.
Running back.

Ok we need three early first round picks next year........ugh

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=FRPLG;736194]I think our biggest problem so far has been general confusion in the secondary. I mean we're talking 8-10 plays this year where I, with an untrained eye and the lack of game film, have noticed open WRs simply because of poor secondary play. Too many times a guy is released into a zone and there is no safety there to pick up coverage. Either the CBs need to stop releasing everyone or the safeties need to stop biting on the play action or picking up the wrong WR. That has to stop. I know it's new scheme and that is the issue but they HAVE to improve on that.[/quote]

No doubt -- the obvious problem today was in the secondary. But I don't know if it's a scheme-type problem. Rogers, Hall, and Buchanon make up a veteran group of guys who should be familiar with what Haslett is trying to do. If anything, with as many blitzes as he's called, he's got faith in their abilities.

They just flat got out-classed today. And let's not forget, there were times last season when this same group of guys got torched in the passing game. Another playmaker would be nice, but every now and then you're going to have a potent offense that'll make you look like fools.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736220]I can't think of any team with 3 stud tackles (we are ridiculously lucky to have Williams and Brown on the same team). Maybe 2 studs and a good backup but no one has had 3 since the Hogs. Heyer is a decent backup at RT. At LT he's a liability. It would be great though if Capers developed next year at either Guard or Tackle. Preferably Guard since that would be his best chance to start.[/quote]


I don't know if Brown is still a "stud". We need him to be cuz Williams is probably at least out two weeks.

Can we trade for Hutchinson!?

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;736180]I don't know, NT's aren't really pass rushers, which is part of the reason Haynesworth was so resistant to the prospect of playing NT. We allowed only 3.6 YPC against a 200 yard rusher on 19 attempts. If anything the secondary needs to get better.[/quote]

They were biting hard on play action, and the play calling in OT took full advantage of that. Two runs in a row to Foster, then they fake a toss to him and the D bit hard.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Gallaway made plays today .. i thought he was toast but dammit if he didn't get open and blow by people .. this OFfense will get better and better and better .... i don't know if the big VJ trade is necessary .. however if we can move AH then do it .. pardon my french but F That AssHole ... and again as much as I love Andre Carter99 .. he needed a sack today and just couldn't get it .. i'm sure we will be replayed on NFL network again this week so game tape will be flying ... 1-1 after this opening 2 teams is ok and actually good .. let's get our system rolling in st.louis and beat the sh*t out of the Rams next week .. Bradford better be ready for some real Defense

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Doughty proved to be an average NFL player who just gets a check for being a "good guy". Sorry but anyone who defends this clown is unbelievable. This kid get's the start 2 wks in a row and ****s up everytime; just an encore of his pathetic performance against Dallas. A FS should not be slow, bad in coverage, late to the ball, etc. Every thing they teach you not to do @ FS he does, and it annoys the shit outta me watching it. Like I said earlier, we will never be an elite team until we have some backups who can come in and perform when needed; and that's on our whole team not just the O and D- line.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

Yeah, but if we had monster line, Schaub would have already been on the ground.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

After today here's what I would do:

Cut Larry Johnson, the game went downhill after he ran backwards and lost 10 yards.

Promote Torain from PS
Cut Roydell Williams
Promote Austin from PS
Start Kareem Moore next week

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;736223]I don't know if Brown is still a "stud". We need him to be cuz Williams is probably at least out two weeks.

Can we trade for Hutchinson!?[/quote]

Brown is a quality starting tackle.

Hutch is a guard.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

also why isn't big will montgomery in the games ?? come one now ... nothing to blow up team ... last week was the whole blow up the team talk because we can't score .. obviously we can score because McNabb can launch that baby 60yds in the air no problem .. keep an eye on some trade bait ... can kareem moore get back fast enough ?


Landry - Has officially Turned into the new Sean Taylor #21 .. i know he's unreplaceable and when i put up his jersey each week i always miss him but Landry seems to remind me more and more of ST each week.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Chico23231;736158]NT is a major need...crucial in this scheme. We are getting nothing at it...[/quote]

Bingo! We have a winner!

Our safeties are making too many tackles because we do not have a real NT to hold the center and keep offensive linemen off of our linebackers. With a real NT, our linebackers are freer to stop the run. They also are freer to not bite on play action and therefore offer more help against the pass.

I hope we use our first round pick on a NT.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;736233]Yeah, but if we had monster line, Schaub would have already been on the ground.[/quote]

I hear ya, but our D- line is not always going to their there so we have to trust the our DB's. I agree with you, both groups need to take some responsibility.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Lotus;736242]Bingo! We have a winner!

Our safeties are making too many tackles because we do not have a real NT to hold the center and keep offensive linemen off of our linebackers. With a real NT, our linebackers are freer to stop the run. They also are freer to not bite on play action and therefore offer more help against the pass.

I hope we use our first round pick on a NT.[/quote]


Hmmm.... Where do we find a better NT? (I know there wasn't one on the inactive list.)

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Mattyk;736237]Brown is a quality starting tackle.

Hutch is a guard.[/quote]

Thanks Matty. Did you really think that I didn't know that Hutchinson is a guard?

We need a stud guard too, not Dock, who is possibly a hair above average.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;736239]also why isn't big will montgomery in the games ?? come one now ... nothing to blow up team ... last week was the whole blow up the team talk because we can't score .. obviously we can score because McNabb can launch that baby 60yds in the air no problem .. keep an eye on some trade bait ... can kareem moore get back fast enough ?


Landry - Has officially Turned into the new Sean Taylor #21 .. i know he's unreplaceable and when i put up his jersey each week i always miss him but Landry seems to remind me more and more of ST each week.[/quote]


He isn't ST but I agree that he is a Pro-Bowler right now. (Don't tell Goat, though. He likes Doughty, Horton and 4-12 seasons)

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=vallin21;736247]I hear ya, but our D- line is not always going to their there so we have to trust the our DB's. I agree with you, both groups need to take some responsibility.[/quote]

Yeah, but I don't think even Ed Reed would have been able to stop Johnson on that play. Johnson is going to pull it in of at least 95% of the time because he has the size and hands.

Re: Skins need to further invest in the trenches next season
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;736251]Thanks Matty. Did you really think that I didn't know that Hutchinson is a guard?

We need a stud guard too, not Dock, who is possibly a hair above average.[/quote]

Hard to read minds on a forum. You were talking tackle and then mentioned trading for Hutch. I'll get my crystal ball dusted off next time.