Suspect Safety Play
 

Does anyone else see that Reed Doughty is a defensive liability?

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^understatement of the year

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So when Moore comes back, does he solve all our problems or will he be the next goat?

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[quote=Mattyk;736456]So when Moore comes back, does he solve all our problems or will he be the next goat?[/quote]

I see where you're going....

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Lots of investments need to be made in the defensive secondary. They are great at doing everything but their most basic assignment -- coverage.

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IMO Moore is an average NFL FS, but we'll see. Regardless, FS should be a main priority in the off-season.

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Why do people think that Kareem Moore is the second coming of Ed Reed. Folks, he's a starter, but not a huge upgrade.

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Moore hasn't proven anything yet, he is what he is because of a spot he won in training camp and preseason. Our safetys are all mostly still Vinny guys. Doughty is on the field because thats all we have. Its going to take a couple more years to finish cleaning up after him.

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[quote=skinzfan44;736444]Does anyone else see that Reed Doughty is a defensive liability?[/quote]

I'm sure some people do but not me.
You can't be mad at Doughty on the 4th and 10 play.
Andre Johnson wins that jumpball matchup against any DB in the league.
My question is why didn't [I]Buchanon[/I] stay with Andre?
It kinda negates the purpose of a double team if the other DB drops coverage.


Now they have to go back and re-examine the coverage and what the HECK was Buchanon thinking!

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[quote=Mattyk;736456]So when Moore comes back, does he solve all our problems or will he be the next goat?[/quote]

I know he doesnt solve all our problems, but he is an upgrade at the very least. All I heard all camp was this guy is stepping up and making plays and at the free position you flat out need a better athlete than Reed.

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been saying this since game 1, he stinks


he needs to be cut

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We are still feeling the affects of loosing Sean Taylor.

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Reed Doughty and Horton are backups for a reason. I think Moore being more athletic and more physical will make a difference.

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Well, this is obvious. Reed has a good heart and is a nice guy, but he just does not have the talent. It's really not the AJ play on the 4th down--that's one that AJ is going to make. He's a monster. And the throw was amazing--watch it again if you can stomach it.

We need to upgrade. Moore may be the guy, but we have NO idea at this point until he plays a few games. And obviously, this is part of the depth problem that Vinny kindly left us with. We are being exposed when our starters go down. That's gonna take years to fix, I'm afraid.

And as scowan says, man, if that's #21 back there, ya gotta believe we get a different ending. RIP, Sean. We miss you, man.

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[quote=Mattyk;736456]So when Moore comes back, does he solve all our problems or will he be the next goat?[/quote]

Are you arguing that he doesn't suck?

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[quote=FRPLG;736534]Are you arguing that he doesn't suck?[/quote]

He's clearly not our only issue. And I don't think he's as bad as some are trying to make him out to be.

I hope Moore is the magic cure as some seem to think. I really do.

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[quote=scowan;736503]We are still feeling the affects of loosing Sean Taylor.[/quote]

You know I was thinking the same thing as I was watching guys run free yesterday. He was best football player and one thing this team needs is more athletes.

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[quote=30gut;736479]I'm sure some people do but not me.
You can't be mad at Doughty on the 4th and 10 play.
[B]Andre Johnson wins that jumpball matchup against any DB in the league.[/B]
My question is why didn't [I]Buchanon[/I] stay with Andre?
It kinda negates the purpose of a double team if the other DB drops coverage.


Now they have to go back and re-examine the coverage and what the HECK was Buchanon thinking![/quote]I can think of one DB who wins that jump ball. Go to 2:25 of the following:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBEZ6P-ErM]YouTube - Sean Taylor Highlights[/ame]

That was a jump ball against a young Randy Moss!!!

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K. Moore has shown some ability when he's played, I've always felt he was the best FS on the team. He is better in coverage than Doughty.

Let's not jump all over Doughty though (no pun intended). That 4th & 10 play was a great one by AJ. Buchanon didn't stay w/AJ cause it looked like they were playing zone/ cover 2 & the safety had over the top coverage. It actually looked like the coverage was executed almost perfectly.

Carlos Rogers seemed to think that every time a completion was made near him that someone else was responsible for coverage there. It was pretty easy for Schaub on a lot of plays, on others he threw tight into coverage & got completions.

This zone scheme left a lot of holes open, just as it did last week (e.g. Austin's 31 yrder on 4th & 10). I don't attribute it to the safeties, it looks like the whole system isn't working. Could be just a matter of time & learning it, or maybe there's a reason Haslett's defenses have given up a lot of yards in the past?

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Zones have natural soft spots and right now we're getting picked apart, granted by good QBs and WRs. Haslett has been super aggressive with the front 7 and might need to start dialing that back a bit.

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Doherty had a rough day but the corners were worse IMO. Rogers got abused by Walter. And why is Buchannon on this team? He's down right awful. Why did they keep him over Tryon and why is he playing over Barners? You know you're bad when Detroit (who has the worst defense I've ever seen) let him go.

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[quote=skinsfan69;736571]Doherty had a rough day but the corners were worse IMO. Rogers got abused by Walter. And why is Buchannon on this team? He's down right awful. Why did they keep him over Tryon and why is he playing over Barners? You know you're bad when Detroit (who has the worst defense I've ever seen) let him go.[/quote]Who are Doherty and Barners?

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Our defensive needs maybe greater after this season. I'm very curious to see how this offseason plays we could be losing Rogers & McIntosh to add to our defensive woes. Doughty does have major coverage issues but he, Horton & Landry are pretty decent SS. Someone explain why didn't we go after O.J Atogwe this offseason?

Reed doughty just isn't great at the FS position. He's always impressed me in previous years at SS; he's a pretty good tackler and blitzer from that spot, but he has never really been good playing FS, and the last couple weeks that has really been exposed. Really, really miss #21.

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[quote=SouperMeister;736558]I can think of one DB who wins that jump ball. Go to 2:25 of the following:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBEZ6P-ErM"]YouTube - Sean Taylor Highlights[/URL]

That was a jump ball against a young Randy Moss!!![/quote]


Damn, why in the hell did you have to post this? Man I miss that guy, could have been the greatest!

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Being a DeMatha alum, I would love to see the Skins draft Kenny Tate as a tall/rangy/athletic FS.

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[quote=SouperMeister;736584]Being a DeMatha alum, I would love to see the Skins draft Kenny Tate as a tall/rangy/athletic FS.[/quote]


DeMatha! I am alum myself. What class?

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Reed is trash, has been since I can remember. He's mediocre at best. What he did yesterday pissed me off beyond belief - in fact, I'm still pissed.

How do you stand there and just watch the #1 WR in the league go up for the ball and not even attempt to deflect it or pick it off. If anything it looked like his ass was ducking out of the way. Get your arm up in there and rip his arm down so it falls.

I mean if he would have tried, then I wouldn't be so pissed.

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[quote=Mattyk;736564]Zones have natural soft spots and right now we're getting picked apart, granted by good QBs and WRs. Haslett has been super aggressive with the front 7 and might need to start dialing that back a bit.[/quote]

We were getting killed in the second half when we WEREN'T being aggressive it seemed to me.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;736510]Reed Doughty and Horton are backups for a reason. I think Moore being more athletic and more physical will make a difference.[/quote]

Perfectly stated.
Doughty and Horton have physical shortcomings that makes them good situational players and special team greats. But they are not every down/every situation type safety's.
Kareem Moore shows promise with his athleticism. We have not seen enough of him to say of he will be "the answer", but he is closer to the answer than Doughty and Horton are showing. Will Moore stay healthy?
Lets see how Kareem does this year.
DB's will get beat from time to time. It is not always their fault (scheme, mis-communication, lack of pass rush). To be fiar we are blitzing a ton and putting a lot of pressure on our DB's.
I did not like the all out blitz on the critical 3rd and 15 that they converted. I think we can blitz one or two and still cover on that play. All out blitz was not necessary.

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Doughty surely is being made into a scapegoat.

Do I wish he made the play? Of course! But his coverage was not bad. One of the best receivers in the game used his height advantage to make a great play on the ball.

In the end, Doughty did not blow a 17 point lead all by himself.

[QUOTE=InsaneBoost;736600]Reed is trash, has been since I can remember. He's mediocre at best. What he did yesterday pissed me off beyond belief - in fact, I'm still pissed.

How do you stand there and just watch the #1 WR in the league go up for the ball and not even attempt to deflect it or pick it off. If anything it looked like his ass was ducking out of the way. Get your arm up in there and rip his arm down so it falls.

I mean if he would have tried, then I wouldn't be so pissed.[/QUOTE]

Reed is not trash, he's a pretty good SS, but you can't expect him to go one on one with the best WR in the league. Including their verticals, AJ probably has 8" on doughty. Coverage has always been his weakness, because he's just not fast enough or able to contest balls wig athletic receivers. But he's always been solid in run support, and you can't say he didn't try on that ball. You can't really place blame anyone, it was simply exploiting a mismatch.
At least he looked better than whoever that Dallas defender was who gave up a jump ball in the endzone vs the bears haha.

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I honestly don't feel he tried hard enough. I know it was a mismatch, but looking at the replay it looks more like he duck out of the way. I'm sure I'm coming down on him hard, but I don't like him. He doesn't have the speed IMO.

What the hell is Tapatalk?

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[quote=Lotus;736610]Doughty surely is being made into a scapegoat.

Do I wish he made the play? Of course! But his coverage was not bad. One of the best receivers in the game used his height advantage to make a great play on the ball.

In the end, Doughty did not blow a 17 point lead all by himself.[/quote]

I do not think he is being made a scapegoat. Maybe a small few are, but not overall.
Let's not kid ourselves though, Doughty is a very good back up and excellent special teamer, but he is not a standout as an every down Free Safety.

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If you don't think he's the trendy scapegoat right now, you're not paying attention.

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I am at work and have not gone back to read all of the posts. Sorry.
Doughty or any one person should not be the scapegoat. Too much happened in this game to point to one single situatio or player and say that is the reason we lost.

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[quote=InsaneBoost;736626][B]I honestly don't feel he tried hard enough. I know it was a mismatch, but looking at the replay it looks more like he duck out of the way. [/B] I'm sure I'm coming down on him hard, but I don't like him. He doesn't have the speed IMO.

What the hell is Tapatalk?[/quote]

Doughty is not the fastest or most athletic guy on the field. Hell, he's probably not among the top half in either category. But to say he didn't try hard enough seems BS to me. The only reason this guy is on the field is that he "tries". If he had the talent of a Haynesworth, he would be a f'ing beast. With all the adversity he has overcome, for him to be on the field at all is impressive.

Doughty was in the right place at the right time, tried to make a play but got beaten by a player who probably has twice as much talent as RD and just as much heart. As Matty said, to make Doughty [I]the[/I] scapegoat is just the fashionable thing to do right now.

Buchanon got fooled on the pass and broke off coverage early. Even if Buchanon [I]had[/I] bracketed him, I am not convinced, given the ball placement, AJ doesn't make that catch.

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[quote=InsaneBoost;736626]I honestly don't feel he tried hard enough. I know it was a mismatch, but looking at the replay it looks more like he duck out of the way. I'm sure I'm coming down on him hard, but I don't like him. He doesn't have the speed IMO.

What the hell is Tapatalk?[/quote]

Uggg...My feelings about Reed's skill aside the one thing the guy brings to the table day-in-day-out is effort. Don't go knocking him for not trying. That's some crap man.

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The one thing I wouldn't question with Reed is his effort or hustle. The guy gives his all.

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[quote=Mattyk;736666]The one thing I wouldn't question with Reed is his effort or hustle. The guy gives his all.[/quote]

No doubt about that, thats how he has hung on the team through so much change. Reed is good special teams players and doesnt whiff on many tackles. he just super scary in coverage. He is clearly not the only scapegoat....Jamal Brown and Fred Davis deserve some blame as well with flat out bone head stupid plays. But Haselett deserves a sh*t ton IMO. anytime you blow a 17 point lead the in the 4th...im just sick of thinking about it