Wilbon's article
 

everyone should read wilbons article today, but here is an excerpt for all of you that STILL continue to support Dan Snyder:
"It's possible to learn about the Redskins by looking at the Steelers, who are sort of the anti-Redskins model of how to build and sustain a team. Every offseason, the Redskins scrap the latest plan and start another. The Pittsburgh franchise is the epitome of stability, from Bill Cowher's 13-year run as coach to Bettis's nine years of service. The Steelers and Bettis, rather than divorce one another, remarried in the offseason. And when starter Duce Staley suffered an injury several weeks ago, Cowher called on the Bus to resume his old role. All Bettis has done since then is rush for 100 yards or more four times in four games, and carry at least 29 times in each game. All the Bus has done is take the pressure off rookie quarterback sensation Ben Roethlisberger, control the clock, keep the Steelers' defense rested and demonstrate to everybody in Pittsburgh's locker room the value of professionalism and team-first thinking."

this team is the joke of the nfl, and Mark Brunell could end up being the worst FA signing in the history of sport, let alone the nfl.

Bergman14:

Brunell's signing was not a move of genius to be sure.

However, the worst free agent signing in sports trophy has probably been retired by the NY Mets when they signed Mo Vaughn for a guaranteed contract of about $80M...

Why does Dan Snyder get all the blame when we're losing? Why can't the players be held accountable for once?

I think Snyder overpaid most of these guys, and there not living up to it. Its sad, but true.

Seriously, common now. Outside of the Brunell singing, what would you have wanted him to do differently this past offseason? Its not his fault Spurrier just left, and we were forced to start a new plan. I'm not a huge fan of Synder by any means, but why do we blame him? Its not his fault.

Because Snyder wants to win now and lose later. Of course, since we are losing now and will lose later, Snyder is going to break up the team one way or another. Jerry Jones of the Boys, reduced his role with Parcells and they won. Now, you see them losing and he is stirring up the pot again in Dallas. I do fault a lot of blame on Snyder for not having any patience. I do believe that Marty ball could have worked here, but was fired like many of our other coaches. Sure Snyder has not really been in the picture much this year, but his pressence will be felt one way or another. It is the same old story every year. We will bring in some used NFC East trash and try to recycle them to work like every other NFC East team.

As Wilbon hinted at, its the tone of the organization set at the top, with Dan Snyder. As long as things continue going the way they are, I can see us ever being a championship caliber team. This is football, there is a salary cap, this is the one sport where spending money does not lead to success, you need to have a solid organization with STABILITY, not to mention a GM. Im just afraid with all the great young talent we have had over the last few years we are really missing out on an opportunity

[QUOTE=Bergman14]you need to have a solid organization with STABILITY, not to mention a GM. Im just afraid with all the great young talent we have had over the last few years we are really missing out on an opportunity[/QUOTE]

So we have great young talent yet we need a GM?

I don't think Snyder will do anything drastic this offseason. He respects Gibbs too much to strip him of any power and trusts him to right the ship as well as to win eventually. I can see them maybe cutting Samuels and/or Brunell but there's not a lot of shopping to be done on the free agent market. The only splashy thing I can see them doing is if Pennington somehow isn't signed by the end of the season and/or isn't franchised for some reason Snyder and Gibbs going after him and trading Ramsey for a pick. Other than that, personnel wise, I don't know of anything needing an overhaul. We need a new center and some depth along the defensive line but other than that I can't see where they will greatly improve by getting new players.

The 2nd Gibbs era isn't even in it's 2nd offseason yet, let's give it some time to see how things go before we string Snyder up from the rafters.

I think Snyder will do exactly what he said he would do, let Gibbs run the show and stay in the background.

smootsmack:

You hit that one on the head. The asumption here always is that the Redskins are brimming over with talent and that it is the stupid coaches and/or the corrupt referees that are preventing the team from winning.

People say we have a WR corps that is in the top three of the league.

Portis was supposed to be the best RB in the NFC according to posters here.

Cooley was going to be a beast and make everyone forget about Jeremy Shockey in the NFC East. (Note: most everyone outside NY has already forgotten about Shockey because he is the single most overhyuped and over-rated player in the league at the moment.)

Patrick Ramsey's stats in his first umpteen starts show that he is better at this point than Brett Favre and Peyton Manning were so obviously he'll be at least their equal.

And so on and so on...

The sorry fact is that there is no team here. There are a bunch of "name recognition players" who continue to play for their own "names" and "stats" but with not nearly enough role players to do all the other things that have to be done to win football games. THE TALENT ISN'T SUFFICIENT because the team has been built on a faulty model.

And who is responsible for the model? Danny Boy or Vinnie Boombatz? You make the call...

Gibbs hasn't been back a year yet. Please give him time to build the stability that makes for a good team. And, by the way, doesn't the defense HAVE that team look right now? Or are they exempt from the anti-Danny rant? Stability means people have been together for a decent amount of TIME. Gibbs has been here for about 10 months. Next year, and the year after that will begin to tell if the skins will be a good team again. They lost some close ones early when the schdule was weaker, and now they are losing (relatively) close games to 2 of the best teams in the NFL. And y'all want to burn it down again. Man. Bill Cowher has been at Pittsburgh 13 years. During Andy Reid's tenure, the skins have had something like 4 head coaches and 5 D coordinators. Now GIbbs and co is back (and Gibbs, I take it, IS the GM), and it will take time for the course to change. But from what I've seen so far this year, I'm encouraged. They are in every game until late. THey never quit battling. And they are getting better, especially now that Ramsey is in there. The worm will turn!

Rant over.

I wouldn't say the Skins have had an overflow of talent over the past few years, but they've had more talent than their records indicate.

The one constant in the equation has been the constant turnover both in the coaching staff and in the personnel, but both tend to go hand in hand.

I agree with JW, let's give Gibbs and co. some time to make this work.

i just wish he didn't go out and get brunell... back in gibbs first era, that would have been a huge waste of money, but now its a huge waste of money that could have been better used to get/pay other players...

The Skins had a plan it was Spurrier the hero world conquering collage coach who well just up and quit on us. Before that Marty who lost the locker room, went out of his way to upset Snyder and would have turned the Skins into a Marty team like the chargers... great you say? They win a lot of games but like the Chiefs before them lack the spirit to lift them in the playoffs and feature a bunch of players auditioning for other teams next year. Marty is one of the most sucessful regular season coaches and one of the least sucessful post season coaches. Before that we had Norv and Robskie who were one in the same since as much of a stand up guy and Robskie was, all he was was nothing more than a warm body to fill the gap left when, Snyder got fed up with Norv who was well on his way to flittering away another stong redskin start to miss the playoffs yet again like he had done countless times in the previous X number of years.

It was during the following season it might interest those always calling for a GM that Snyder admitted he may have fired the wrong guy between Norv and Charley Casserly but since the two couldn't work together at all and the NFL dragged the sale of the Skins out all the way May 26th 1999, past the draft, past free agency and just over three months to the begining of the '99 season. Snyder neaded a HC more than a GM. CC set us up with two of the best drafts in 1999 and 2000 and gave us the leader in Brad Johnston to take us to the playoffs but also because of the uncertianty re: the ownership we lost one of what could have been one of the cornerstones of the franchise in Trent Green. It is imposible to say where we could have been had the sale gone through quicker had CC stayed here but one thing is for sure Dan had a hand in where we are now but no way is he responsible for everything that has happened.

One thing Dan Snyder has done consistantly year after year though is everything he could do to make the team better you want to support and anti Dan team try the 49ers $50 mil pay roll this year and probably the same next year and the next becasue thier owner puts his pocket book before the team, same with Bidwell and and Cards.... Just a thought.

When people say we over pay for players what do they meen? Do they meen players are not playing well? Outside Barlow and Brunell who isn't playing well and okay Brunell was a HUGE waste of money. Spings? Griffin? Washington? Tupa? who? Thing is you pay the going rate you pay less and you end up with a wallet load of cash and not the player you wanted. You gamble whenever you draft or try and build through FA this year DESPITE the record we are hitting more than missing. And remember this is year one, we will have to address aspects of our cap this year but we are looking good for the future and rember those teams that were built overnight fall overnight too .

Here are the players I think we overpaid:

Brunell

Morton

Wynn

Samuels

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Here are the players I think we overpaid:

Brunell

Morton

Wynn

Samuels[/QUOTE]
Brunell - yup.

Morton - probably, but the Morton offer was designed to get us Coles. We knew the Jets couldn't match both offers. We didn't know they'd fail to match either. Anyway, it's hard to ball-bust someone for getting too big a check when they're on IR.

Wynn - I want to hate Wynn every year, because he's overpaid. And every year, he leads the D-line in tackles. Is he overpaid - yes. But look at the numbers from the last three years, and grit your teeth, and hand him the check.

Samuels - for the level he plays at, definitely. But he's working on a deal that was designed to be renegotiated. As a team, we couldn't cut him, and he knew it. By his level of play, and by his negotiating tactics, he isn't making friends in the organization.

I'd add Barrow as a poor signing. I'm aware he is hurt, but he never took a snap for us. How do you miss that the guy can't walk or run without pain? My advice would be to make him climb a flight of stairs to get to his contract. If he has to stop for a break, tear up the deal.

morton is still 20x the returner that betts/thrash are... he fair catches and doesn't get blocking often enough, and he is paid too much, but he's also the only real return threat we have.

hopefully barrow will be back next year... and vaugn (sp?) and the rest of our IR bench...
on the other side of the fence, the league said we overpaid for both griffin and springs, and looking back you just gotta laugh at that... springs is under half the cost of bailey, and judging by this season so far, i'd take springs if the costs were even.

One thing to think about is - Synder has improved every year. Gibbs will help him in the stability department. The last two years Snyder has benn better than anyone else in the league durring FA imho.

Kope - I agree. He was a rookie owner and made stupid mistakes. He's starting to understand it and he'll have more super bowls than JKK.

Morton has the ability, but you never see the skins open up a crease for him to get through.

he had a 30 and 50 yard return in a single game and penalties brought them BOTH back... then he got sent to IR... talk about star-crossed... meanwhile everyone here seems to think its entirely his fault that no one is blocking for him.

Is it just me or is Wilbon always really anti-Ramsey??

I don't get it, he says in the WP chat yesterday that the Skins need to find or develop a QB, well how about developing Ramsey? Or does he have Ramsey all figured out after 18 career starts and he's determined he can't be groomed into a quality NFL starter?? It just seems like he's not willing to give him a chance at all.

[quote]Silver Spring, Md.: Mike,
Am I the only one who was impressed by Patrick Ramsey's throws? It seems as though he gets the ball in the right place with an adequate amount of time. Do the recievers need more time practicing with Patrick? It's almost as if they're not used to catching a ball with that much heat on it.

Michael Wilbon: Let's not turn Patrick Ramsey into Peyton Manning, okay? Ramsey missed a whole lot of throws, and more than a few bonced off the hands of Steelers defenders. Ramsey's throws were okay. He's got an arm; we know that. He had a few drops. But he makes some bad throws...It's not like he's putting it on a dime all the time. If he did, he wouldn't have been 19-for-34 or whatever it was yesterday, for a buck 38. The Redskins still need to find or develop a quarterback.
[/quote]

Yeah I've noticed that too. He says let's not turn PR into Manning, but I don't think anyone was. I don't what exactly he has against him? I remember when Brunell was still the starter he was saying that Hasselbeck should be playing?


He says we need to develop a QB. Ok....why not Ramsey? He's only 25.

There has been a big push for every free agent QB to end up here, and I just don't see it happening. If Patrick finishes the season as the starter, he should get a short term renegotiation which befits his status. Brunell isn't going anywhere with his contract, and he isn't going to drop to third-string (whether his play indicates he should or not). Our QB picture is what it is for the next year, unless something absolutely crazy happens.

QB aint the main problem here... ramsey could have been more accurate yesterday, but the WRs dropped soo many damned balls...

Redskins P:

I could not agree more. The players should be accountable for losing.

On another thread here, someone actually did go and dig up Ramesy's stats for his first 15 or so starts and comapred those stats to Manning and Favre and a whole bunch of other QBs and showed how Ramsey's stats were better. So, let me echo Wilbon here. Ramsey is a decent young QB with a whole lot to learn and with a whole lot of improving to do before we start to call him "above average". Let's not make him out to be Manning.


To several folks here:

Are you sure that Spurrier "quit on us" or was he "encouraged to leave" much the same way that Butch Davis and the Browns have just parted ways? If you are certain of that, please explain how you know that...


bedlamVR:

Danny Boy fired a Norv Turner when the team still had a shot at making the playoffs - and it went into the tank on him. What was the issue? Starting Jeff George at QB which is what interim coach Terry Robiske "decided on his own" was the thing to do as soon as he got the job. How'd that work out?

Oh, BTW, which genius brought Jeff George here in the first place? HInt: It wasn't Norv or Charlie Casserley or the Tooth Fairy. Is that the same guy who is so focused on winning that all he does is make the team better every year? Same question applies to Darrell Russell last season. Oh, and Deion too at the end of his career. And keeping Bruce Smith around an extra two years so he could break the sack record as a Redskin helped a lot too. Remember when Smith was not starting and he ran to Danny Boy who told the coach to make sure Bruce got his PT?

How do the Patriots manage to win without paying what you call market value and what I call the "Redskins' sucker price" for free agents? They don't seem to wind up with what you call a "fat wallet" AND a team of players who seem to be able to win. Same with the Eagles and the Steelers. Danny Boy winds up with a huge payroll and a team of players that can't find a way to stop losing. Remember, the Redskins with all the great signings you attribute to Danny Boy over the past two years are 8 - 19 over those two seasons. The Redskins have had the highest payroll in the NFL for both of the past two years and the result is 8-19. If anyone other than the owner had produced that record, he'd be fired and most of the people here would be volunteering to tar and feather the dope on the way out of town. But since he's the owner and you know he ain't leaving, you just suck it up and try to rationalize his moves - - and you secretly pray that his next ones work out about 300% better than the last ones.

After the great Jetskins raid, what happened to the Jets' record and what happened to the Skins' record? Given what we paid to their players and given that we gave them nothing in return, I know I'd expect results that were a bit different from what happened. Unless of course, we didn't take their really top-drawer talent from them...

SC: How do you know Spurrier was encouaged to leave?
Dude from mid season last year he was scouting situations vaccent he stopped bothering to turn up to meatings with Snyder and Vinny and other coaching staff and barley knew what players were on the team. Does that sound like a man engaged with his jobs?.

Also given the number Marty did on the Skins regarding severance pay if he was encoraged to leave you would have thought he would have taken a sizable suitcase of Snyder money with him what did he get? Partial rembursment of relocation expenses?

Sorry to pick up on a couple other points.
The Eagles have a great roster true but who have they beaten again this year two teams with winning records? What is more important who has beaten them. Do the Eagles look strong or are they flattered by the competence or lack therefore of their opponents? The last two games they have played were us and the crumbling Giants where they ran the score up late in the game in both cases.

Yes, Norv did have a chance to take us to the playoffs when he was canned but he had plentiful chances to take to the promised land before hand. He should have been canned after taking us 0-8 in 1998 and his piss poor record before that like taking us 7-1 and then crumbling missing the playoffs at 9-7. And that might have been Snyders darkest hour hell the entire 2000 season was a bad move by Snyder but he has learnt and moved on from that I cannot see why certain fans don't move on as well.

Finally the Saints had the highest payroll last year we were 6th and in 2002? We had the 22nd highest payroll with the Jets topping the official list (USA today). To go 8-19 with the player coaching and mentality changes we have been through isn't that suprising. Also the guy who contributed 5 of the wins and 11 of the losses has been run out of town well run in the fact he did the running. We still have 5 games to go this year. It is absolute fantasy to say we win all 5 but hay anything is possible and who wouldn't be happy 8-8 right now?Even 6-10 would be great hell it's an improvement.

[QUOTE=bedlamVR]Yes, Norv did have a chance to take us to the playoffs when he was canned but he had plentiful chances to take to the promised land before hand. He should have been canned after taking us 0-8 in 1998 and his piss poor record before that like taking us 7-1 and then crumbling missing the playoffs at 9-7. And that might have been Snyders darkest hour hell the entire 2000 season was a bad move by Snyder but he has learnt and moved on from that I cannot see why certain fans don't move on as well.[/QUOTE]

Good points

I have no idea if Spurrier quit or was nudged out of the nest. But since others here declare it as a fact that he quit, I wonder how they know that.

The Eagles have played in the NFC chanmpionship game three years in a row and are 10-1 this year. If you want to feel a little less bad about the Redskins' miserable performace this year by saying that the Eagles have not played a monstrously difficult schedule, hold onto that fact. I think that most Redskin fans would love to have been in the playoffs in each of the last three years let alone to have advanced in the playoffs in all of those years. And I believe that the Redskins have been "home for the Holidays" in each of the last three years.

The Redskins victories this year have come over Tampa, Detroit and Chicago. Those teams do not have winning records either. In fact, they are all 4-7.

The Redskins have played 4 teams with winning records. Their record is 0-4. It makes little sense to try to pick nits with the performance of a team that is 10-1 in order to try to build up the stature of a team that is 3-8.

BTW, I have no problem with firing Norv Turner; I do not think he is a very good coach and he had a much longer run here than I would have preferred. but to fire him in December when your team still has a real shot at the playoffs because he would not play the QB Danny Boy went out and got is a demonstration of ego being more important than winning. And you'll notice how long Jeff George survived the next season...

SC I always thought Spurrier was kind of forced out. Marty was knocked out because Snyder finally talked Spurrier into it, then he got Gibbs instead of Spurrier.

Since 2000 how many of these players has Snyder said "Im gonna go get and ignore the coach!" I'm guessing not many. Spurrier told him he needed speed at receiver. He got it. He told him he needed speed at RB, he got it. He told him he wanted Ramsey in the draft, he got em. Snyder opens his check book and does an amazing job marketing the team.

I love how all these years the coaches have been at fault. Now all of a sudden with Joe Gibbs failing it MUST be the players. I'm not saying they don't share any blame, but Williams has a bunch of backups holding onto the #2 defense in the league.

[QUOTE=Daseal]

Since 2000 how many of these players has Snyder said "Im gonna go get and ignore the coach!" I'm guessing not many. Spurrier told him he needed speed at receiver. He got it. He told him he needed speed at RB, he got it. He told him he wanted Ramsey in the draft, he got em. Snyder opens his check book and does an amazing job marketing the team.[QUOTE]


Exactly. Thats why I cant understand why everyone is on Snyder all the time so much. The only time I think it was on him, was the 2000 campign w/ Deion and Bruce ect. He just does what the coaches want him to do; its more on teh coaches than it is Snyder.