Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Just because we lost to the Lions doesn't mean we can't analyze good and bad spots from today's game. As always here's the [URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/10/redskins-lions_best_and_worst.html"]link[/URL] from Dan Steinberg of the DC Sports Bog.

Personal Best and Worst:
Best:
1. Banks' electrifying punt and kickoff returns. Huge reason why we were able to stay in today's game. Some could say only reason we stayed in today's game. The NFL is now on notice.
2. Offense taking advantage of good field position, unlike last week.

Worst:
Well, where to start. We all know this one will be a long list.

1. Offensive line play. The bad far outweighed the good. McNabb was on his back more than a hooker in a whorehouse. And even on plays where he was able to get rid of the ball, it f'd with his psyche. Bad offensive line play affects a qb in a lot of ways. It makes them see pressure that isn't there. It makes them throw off their back feet to get rid of the ball quicker. It leads to bad decision making, and throws that are off target and off balance. I doubt even the best of qb's could've played decent behind our outmatched offensive line today.
1a. McNabb's pick. Well duh. This was just a bad decision. Armstrong had 3 defenders wrapped around him. I prefer to think this was the result of McNabb's not being able to trust his line to give him enough time and him deciding to force that ball in there. I'm sure others will just say this one is all on McNabb. Either way, he threw the ball into a crowd of 3 defenders, which is an inexcusable bad decision especially with the game on the line.
2. Defense. Just keep them out of the end zone. I know our special teams gave you a short field, but if Matt Stafford doesn't throw 4 touchdowns they don't win the game. They exploited the zone coverage. I understand zone gives us a better chance at getting turnovers, but it's also easier to complete passes against if you know where the soft spots are. And they anticipated the rush. We need to be better off the snap too, because they got that ball out extremely quickly on that Pettigrew touchdown. Teams know how to figure this defense out, and we obviously can't rely on forcing turnovers every drive.
3. Special teams: Yeah I'm bringing them into this, because week after week we see Brandon Banks bust off great returns that continually get called back for the same 2 penalties: holding, or block in the back. And it's even worse when you see the infraction in question and it's so far away from the ball it's not funny. Just don't do it. Discipline is lacking on special teams this season.
4. Small mention goes to Fred Davis, for dropping 2 2 point conversions. I know the balls were high but you're supposed to bring those in. He even went back to you on the second 2 point conversion. You don't see the field too often because coaches obviously don't have confidence in you to do your job well.
5. Before I forget, the coaching staff. K.Shanny needs to play to his players' strengths better (read: get the ball out quicker, or start max protecting more), and Mike Shanny needs to not make impulsive decisions like benching his star qb at the end of the 4th quarter while down by 6 points and the game's on the line. There's no chance a rusty, crappy qb like Grossman would've been the solution after sitting on the bench for 58 minutes.

That covers the big ones imo. I'm sure I'm missing other things as well, but someone can fill in the blanks.

Philly can't come fast enough, mainly just because I don't want to read 2 weeks of coverage blasting Mike Shanahan for benching McNabb. (Make no mistake, that one is all on Shanny. There could be repercussions that go beyond this season.)

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Is McNabb's contract extension, or lack thereof, become a distraction to him?

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best = it's now the bye week.

Worst = decision to bench McNabb

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;754693]Best = it's now the bye week.

Worst = decision to bench McNabb[/quote]

EDIT:

Best = Brandon Banks

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

The worst? Let's see...

The offensive line's inability to protect McNabb?

The offensive line's inability to protect Grossman?

The offensive line's inability to run block?

Hmmm, I wonder??

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best = banks, Hall, Haynesworth, keiland Williams ( UFA comes in and ran hard ).

Worst= Whole offense in general, Embarrasing.

Benching McNabb was retarded

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best:
1. Run Defense overall I thought was pretty solid.
2. Add Banks to the list of great "finds" along with Torrain and Armstrong this year. In fact I think he is a better find than both.

Aweful:
1. Shanny decision to bring in Rex was poor, his excuse of why was worse.
2. Oline is not just average, its still relatively poor. We need to continue to build it with new talent in the interior and we need to make a decision on Jamal Brown...can he stay healthy? If not, that should be priority 1.
3. We need to a couple running backs. Portis, Torrain, and K Williams are very slow. I do to a certain extent like the each one, but we need a threat. We were pathetic against a defense that has been destroyed by the run.
4. Kyle Shanny effing bootleg to start the game and then throw the ball deep in our territory with 4:30 minutes to go after we just gotten a 5 yard run. Pathetic. You've been a bigger disappointment than Jamal Brown at tackle. The offense has gotten worse as the season has gone on, it starts at the top with you.
5. Trying to cover Megatron was a fail.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

All starts with the OL right now. Too bad we couldn't have benched all of them rather than McNabb.

Here's another good postgame read:

[url=http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2010/10/31/initial-thoughts-lions-37-redskins-25/]Initial Thoughts: Lions 37, Redskins 25 - Redskins Journal[/url]

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best:

Brandon Banks-A true threat to score every time he touches the ball

Anthony Armstrong-A late bloomer in the NFL, but he's proving he belongs

QB Controversy-Finally! What's Redskins football without an annual QB controversy? I might as well just become a Colts fan

Worst

QB Controversy-Really Mike? Now? Now's when you decide you're not happy with McNabb? Still, I don't blame Grossman for that fumble. I blame the...

Offensive Line-Trent Williams finally had that disastrous rookie game I think we all should have expected probably much earlier. Not being 100% healthy isn't helping for him but that's life in the NFL. Jammal Brown could be a one and done if he shows no signs of getting healthy himself. Artis Hicks has been a big disappointment and Kory L should be playing center, in my opinion. I think it might be time to get Will Montgomery back in the starting line up. They need to shore up that middle of the OL because there's no reason that the lead rusher is...

Donovan McNabb, who also should have known better than to throw that INT at the end. It wasn't the game ender but it certainly didn't help. I expect that type of pass from the previous #5 here

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Trent got schooled yesterday, no way around it.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=SmootSmack;754760]Best:

Brandon Banks-A true threat to score every time he touches the ball

Anthony Armstrong-A late bloomer in the NFL, but he's proving he belongs

QB Controversy-Finally! What's Redskins football without an annual QB controversy? I might as well just become a Colts fan

Worst

QB Controversy-Really Mike? Now? Now's when you decide you're not happy with McNabb? Still, I don't blame Grossman for that fumble. I blame the...

Offensive Line-Trent Williams finally had that disastrous rookie game I think we all should have expected probably much earlier. Not being 100% healthy isn't helping for him but that's life in the NFL. Jammal Brown could be a one and done if he shows no signs of getting healthy himself. Artis Hicks has been a big disappointment and Kory L should be playing center, in my opinion. I think it might be time to get Will Montgomery back in the starting line up. They need to shore up that middle of the OL because there's no reason that the lead rusher is...

Donovan McNabb, who also should have known better than to throw that INT at the end. It wasn't the game ender but it certainly didn't help. I expect that type of pass from the previous #5 here[/quote]

Agree.

For me-

Best: Brandon Banks.

Worst: Everything else. Including coaching.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best:

Banks
AH
Landry
Armstrong

Worst:

Daniels Penalty led to Lions TD instead of FG
Doughty's penalty on Banks return erased TD
Switching QB's on final drive and the fumble
OL
Hunter Smith punting gave Lions good field position many times

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Our WR corps have been an [B]overachieving[/B] unit this year, compared to the OL, RBs, QBs, and offensive coaching, who have all underachived.

Still, we need Roydell Williams to be the 3rd receiver, by tomorrow. Joey Galloway can have a retirement party. I'll pay for it. I'm okay with a Banks/Terence Austin platoon as the 4th/WR package player.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=GTripp0012;754790]Our WR corps have been an [B]overachieving[/B] unit this year, compared to the OL, RBs, QBs, and offensive coaching, who have all underachived.

Still, we need Roydell Williams to be the 3rd receiver, by tomorrow. Joey Galloway can have a retirement party. I'll pay for it. I'm okay with a Banks/Terence Austin platoon as the 4th/WR package player.[/quote]

I'd get Banks on the field over Galloway and Williams. I don't want to see either of them on the field... ever, ever again.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

WORST... this guy Lick and Rabach simply can't hold up against big strong DLinemen. I have no idea why Dock isn't even suiting up. I'm starting to really question this coaching staff.

Best...BRANDON BANKS. He's gotta get on the field more.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Best: Brandon Banks (he is electric)[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Worst: Personnel decisions[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]*What is the common denominator of the poor offensive line over the past 6 years? Casey Rabach. He is just horrible! As the center he not only snaps the ball, but identifies where the pressure is coming from and makes the line calls, which obviously suck! We had great O lineman in the past ie Samuels and R. Thomas, but still our offensive line has been porous. Usually from the interior, which should be the strength of the O-line, put this guy on the bench and bring up Dock, Leichtensteiger (or whatever his name is) can play center, he can’t be much worse.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]*The AH saga, weird.. guess he proved the coaches wrong, he is the only credible interior DL on the team that can provide any pressure. From the looks of it the 3-4 is a wash anyways since the team has been in the base 4-3 for most of the games.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]*The Devin Thomas debacle, he doesn’t fit the scheme or have what it takes to be an NFL player? Isn’t that the coach’s job to harness the raw talent into and NFL caliber WR? I guess it’s best to go with an Arena football league guy and a formerly speedy WR who isn’t fast and hasn’t proven he can even still catch the ball.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]*No 3rd running back? Why didn’t the skins pick up a starting caliber RB when CP went down? Keiland Williams did well, but he had only 3 snaps as a college starter? WTF. Shanny made a name for himself with the no-name running backs he could find, he also had a Superior O-line back then.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]*And lastly the benching of DM, I feel for the guy, I know he tried to force the last int in there, but can you blame the guy? He had been beat up all game and the coaches were asking him to throw the ball all day with no protection and no running game. With zero talent at WR, RB and an O-line what else could you expect.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Hey but at least we are at .500 going into the bye, I really didnt expect that.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=skinsfan69;754791]I'd get Banks on the field over Galloway and Williams. I don't want to see either of them on the field... ever, ever again.[/quote]I think Williams just needs to play more. He's average at best...but we could use that.

Banks in very limited offensive snaps doesn't look like an NFL quality receiver. In a package role, that probably doesn't matter. As the third receiver, might as well keep clueless Galloway out there.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Roydell Williams>Devin Thomas>Joey Galloway

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=GTripp0012;754800]I think Williams just needs to play more. He's average at best...but we could use that.

Banks in very limited offensive snaps doesn't look like an NFL quality receiver. In a package role, that probably doesn't matter. As the third receiver, might as well keep clueless Galloway out there.[/quote]

Why? At best he's average. Let's get Banks, a promising young player some experience and playing time for the future. Williams doesn't have a future playing wr here. I'd also bring up Austin too. Playing Galloway and Williams serves no purpose.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=skinsfan69;754804]Why? At best he's average. Let's get Banks, a promising young player some experience and playing time for the future. Williams doesn't have a future playing wr here. I'd also bring up Austin too. Playing Galloway and Williams serves no purpose.[/quote]I'd play Austin on offense over Banks, but I do think we need to approach it with a "win now" mentality.

The reason I advocate releasing Galloway isn't because he has limited future value (that's obvious), but because he's hurting us in the short term as well.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=GTripp0012;754808]I'd play Austin on offense over Banks, but I do think we need to approach it with a "win now" mentality.

The reason I advocate releasing Galloway isn't because he has limited future value (that's obvious), but because he's hurting us in the short term as well.[/quote]

Galloway should have never been on this roster. Once NE released him last year his career was over and it's showing. I wanted Austin on the roster from day 1 and he should be promoted, he can't be worse than Galloway or Williams. If anything I think he would add a spark to the offense.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best: Banks- awesome game, Haynesworth- had another great game-two in a row

Worst:

Oline is horrible. Rabach is a good dude, but we need a center.

Is there no one out there better than Heyer? Anyone?

Benching McNabb on the last drive. The last drive? W/ our line sucking the way they did?

I do give some props to the Lions. They've got a decent team. Suh? That dude is a stud. They've got a good pass rush. Stafford will be very good in the next couple years.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Yesterday was worse than STL bcuz we had the lead late and let it slip again.. Coaching was a joke on offense all game. No run game at all, Atv gets injured again, TW got destroyed by Vanden Bosh.. Jamal brown is still injured. Cooley dropped 2 really catchable balls, Carlos took a horrible angle on that last TD. Landry continues to celebrate a big hit even when CJ gets a first down SMH.

But I'm most disappointed in Mike Shanahan, how in gods green earth do you basically give up the game? That's bush league IMO, we all knew damn well grossman wasn't going to lead us down field, heck I'd rather have JC any day over that bum!!
Shame on MS

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=GTripp0012;754808]I'd play Austin on offense over Banks, but I do think we need to approach it with a "win now" mentality.

The reason I advocate releasing Galloway isn't because he has limited future value (that's obvious), but because he's hurting us in the short term as well.[/quote]

And that is why this organization has been below average. It's always the win now approach instead of trying to build something.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=skinsfan69;754872]And that is why this organization has been below average. It's always the win now approach instead of trying to build something.[/quote]Well, I'm not sure that using Austin/Banks on offense because they are young is my idea of "building something". More like desperation.

While it doesn't hurt once the season is lost to just see what you have, and there is hardly a need to play Roydell Williams just to see what he can do, I don't think the season is lost, especially since the postseason is a likelyhood if we can just beat a Philadelphia team for a season sweep after the bye.

Our highest upside receiver is Anthony Armstrong, who of course, is already playing more than anyone who isn't Santana Moss. Without flipping their number of targets, I think we're doing what we can do develop our receivers. Possibly at the expense of using Fred Davis.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

If we can develop just one receiver a year, we'll have a top level receiving corps by 2012. Our intentions should be that we continue to give Anthony Armstrong every opportunity to become a good NFL receiver.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[B]2012 IS our year![/B]......sadly the world will be ending December 21, 2012.
....Damn Mayans

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Banks - Anyone who cried about Rock Cartwright IN JAN - APR should stop now if they haven't already.
Albert - Holding drawn, penetrated the backfield to help stop best, and a great sack on Stafford
Landry - Just came to play

Worst
OL
McNabb's pick 6
Phil93's offside
Refs

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;754920]Banks - Anyone who cried about Rock Cartwright IN JAN - APR should stop now if they haven't already.
Albert - Holding drawn, penetrated the backfield to help stop best, and a great sack on Stafford
Landry - Just came to play

Worst
OL
McNabb's pick 6
Phil93's offside
Refs[/quote]

Watching the game over I think had the refs done a better job Phil93 wouldn't have been called offsides. The snapper flinched before PD moved. Penalty should have been called on the Lions

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;754920]Banks - Anyone who cried about Rock Cartwright IN JAN - APR should stop now if they haven't already.
Albert - Holding drawn, penetrated the backfield to help stop best, and a great sack on Stafford
Landry - Just came to play

Worst
OL
McNabb's pick 6
Phil93's offside
Refs[/quote]

McNabb threw a pick six? I knew he threw a pick but I didn't know it was returned for a touchdown.

And the players said it after the game on that field goal attempt. Their long snapper moved the ball, which is why half our line jumped. That one is on the officials. They need to see what's happening on the los better.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Worst:

(hat tip to Ruhskins for reminding me to post this): Our 1st Down Offense. Hard to win when you're facing these 2nd down situations: 2nd and 18; 2nd and 8; 2nd and 15; 2nd and 5; 2nd and 20; 2nd and 10; 2nd and 6; 2nd and 18; 2nd and 6; 2nd and 13; 2nd and 2; 2nd and 15; 2nd and 11; 2nd and 4; 2nd and 4; 2nd and 11; 2nd and 13; 2nd and 10..

So that's more than 50% of the time we've essentially gained zero yards or lost yards on first down

I don't know what the league average is, or even really what the Redskins average is but if you're going to give your offense just three downs basically you might as well be playing in the CFL

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=SmootSmack;755291]Worst:

(hat tip to Ruhskins for reminding me to post this): Our 1st Down Offense. Hard to win when you're facing these 2nd down situations: [B]2nd and 18; 2nd and 8; 2nd and 15; 2nd and 5; 2nd and 20; 2nd and 10; 2nd and 6; 2nd and 18; 2nd and 6; 2nd and 13; 2nd and 2; 2nd and 15; 2nd and 11; 2nd and 4; 2nd and 4; 2nd and 11; 2nd and 13; 2nd and 10..[/B]

So that's more than 50% of the time we've essentially gained zero yards or lost yards on first down

I don't know what the league average is, or even really what the Redskins average is but if you're not going to give your offense just three down basically you might as well be playing in the CFL[/quote]

Boy, I knew our first down offense had a really bad day after the game, but I had no idea it was that bad. That's horrible. I mean out of those 18 2nd downs, 11 of them were 10 or more yards. Only 4 of those gained at least 5 yards. Atrocious.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=SmootSmack;755291]Worst:

(hat tip to Ruhskins for reminding me to post this): Our 1st Down Offense. Hard to win when you're facing these 2nd down situations: 2nd and 18; 2nd and 8; 2nd and 15; 2nd and 5; 2nd and 20; 2nd and 10; 2nd and 6; 2nd and 18; 2nd and 6; 2nd and 13; 2nd and 2; 2nd and 15; 2nd and 11; 2nd and 4; 2nd and 4; 2nd and 11; 2nd and 13; 2nd and 10..

So that's more than 50% of the time we've essentially gained zero yards or lost yards on first down

I don't know what the league average is, or even really what the Redskins average is but if you're going to give your offense just three downs basically you might as well be playing in the CFL[/quote]

Good post. And those 2nd and longs led to 3rd and longs, so the Lions were able to just pin their ears back and come after McNabb.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

The best from this game, doesn't outway the bad so I'm not going there..

Bad:
- O-line (Kinda feels like last year)
- Coaching: KS's offense may work with a dependable line, solid WR's, and with an
established running game. It's not working here.
- Coaching: The decision to only dress 2 RB's was scary to me. Having Ryan go down was unforseen, but that only left the UFA. He played good, but God forbid something had happened to him. Then what?
- Coaching: Not much max protect after we found out we couldn't block them (the 2nd drive). I only saw 1 screen pass, and I think that would have slowed thier DL play down.

Our team might not be clicking right now, but I think it starts at the top.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best:
Anthony Armstrong
Keiland Williams
Worst:
OL/Coaching

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Big difference between our 5 man protections, which can't handle anyone, and our 6 man protections, which are giving McNabb a lot of time.

Sometimes, however, we call a six man protection, and the back and a tackles don't read the stunt together, then the back releases which leaves a free lineman in a bad position. It's at that point I miss Campbell, because he would complete that desperation throw to the back, where McNabb misses or gets sacked putting us in long yardage or forcing a punt.

There's a simple solution, which is to restrict the back from releasing into the pattern. That would fix a lot of our protection problems.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=GTripp0012;755526] It's at that point I miss Campbell, because he would complete that desperation throw to the back, where McNabb misses or gets sacked putting us in long yardage or forcing a punt.[/quote]

People underestimate the efficiency of Zorn/Campbell's passing game last year.
I don't think its a strecth to say that Campbell finished the season as a better quick rhythm WCO short passing/accuracy QB then McNabb at this point.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

[quote=30gut;755527]People underestimate the efficiency of Zorn/Campbell's passing game last year.[/quote]I think people DID underestimate it. I'm not so sure they do anymore.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

Best - They actually showed up in Detroit without incident.

Worst - They actually attempted to play.

Re: Redskins-Lions: Best and Worst
 

idk where to put this but . . . .anyone have any word on orakpos injury. it looked pretty serious before they cut to commercial break then said he limped off the field on his own power when they came back.

i was worried at the time, now with all this mcnabb stuff, seems the media and press conf dont even address it.