Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

In hindsight after half a season, would it have been better to have gone after Sam Bradford and not have McNabb and Trent Williams on the team?

I'm on the fence on this and wanted to get some thoughts from others.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

I think Bradford was plan A and McNabb was plan B it is not like they had both deals on the table at the same time and choose McNabb.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=mredskins;756478]I think Bradford was plan A and McNabb was plan B it is not like they had both deals on the table at the same time and choose McNabb.[/quote]

Since you say that you think Bradford was plan A - do you think that it would have been better to have dealt for the first overall to draft him instead of trading for McNabb and drafting Trent Williams- looking back in hindsight.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

I am fine with Trent Williams, while Sam Bradford looks good, remember the Rams had already gotten several high draft linemen. Atleast TW has been a fair replacement for Samuels, and will get better with time I believe, look at Stafford when the Lions didn't strengthen their line first, he was out some last year, and some this year. If we had gone with Bradford, especially not knowing what we would have had to trade, but surely more than McNabb cost us, I think there is the real possibility he would have had a season ending injury. After all we have faced several powerful DL's/OLB's. Definitely needed to solidify the LT when we had the oppportunity.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=warriorzpath;756480]Since you say that you think Bradford was plan A - do you think that it would have been better to have dealt for the first overall to draft him instead of trading for McNabb and drafting Trent Williams- looking back in hindsight.[/quote]


I don't think STL ever want anything for that pick, it was never an option.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;756483]I am fine with Trent Williams, while Sam Bradford looks good, remember the Rams had already gotten several high draft linemen. Atleast TW has been a fair replacement for Samuels, and will get better with time I believe, look at Stafford when the Lions didn't strengthen their line first, he was out some last year, and some this year. If we had gone with Bradford, especially not knowing what we would have had to trade, but surely more than McNabb cost us, I think there is the real possibility he would have had a season ending injury. After all we have faced several powerful DL's/OLB's. Definitely needed to solidify the LT when we had the oppportunity.[/quote]

I'll play devil's advocate- but what if McNabb continues to play subpar at qb and looking ahead at possible free agents and draft choices at qb in future years -- would it have been a mistake to not deal for Bradford when the redskins had a chance? Keep this in mind and I know it's way to early -- but Bradford is being projected as the next great qb.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

i think everyone on here would agree we rather have Bradford over McNabb which is what you are basically driving at but that truly was never an option.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=mredskins;756486]I don't think STL ever want anything for that pick, it was never an option.[/quote]

I'd like to think that, but what if it was a possibility -- which option would you have preferred in hindsight (and know it might not have been these clear-cut options)? McNabb and T. Williams VS. Bradford

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=mredskins;756490]i think everyone on here would agree we rather have [B]Bradford over McNabb[/B] which is what you are basically driving at but that truly was never an option.[/quote]

It probably wouldn't have been Bradford over McNabb. It would have been more like Bradford VS. McNabb/Williams

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Bradford looks good now, what would he have looked like behind the Redskins O line,better or worse?

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Bradford, he is a long-term answer at QB. Why is everyone acting like he would get killed behind our o-line, maybe if he was drafted by the skins they would sit him for a year at least?

If we'd gotten Bradford it would've been more likely that AH was traded and that in general rebuilding would be underway.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=Giantone;756494]Bradford looks good now, what would he have looked like behind the Redskins O line,better or worse?[/quote]

But since McNabb may possibly not be a redskin next year. Would it have been a better investment to have drafted Bradford -- of course, looking back?

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

While I'm still on the fence on this, I'm okay with having a good young LT and building a solid O line for now.

But I keep thinking -- when's the next time, if ever, would the redskins be in position to pick up a great young qb like Bradford.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Bradford's value to the Rams was likely near infinite. We probably would have had to trade away an entire draft just to get him.

That said, in the dream world where the price was actually a bit more reasonable, then hell yes. We should have deliberately stunk it up this year by making Grossman the tackling dummy for 2 years(this and next) and have 2 years of high draft picks.

No sarcasm.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=warriorzpath;756489]I'll play devil's advocate- but what if McNabb continues to play subpar at qb and looking ahead at possible free agents and draft choices at qb in future years -- would it have been a mistake to not deal for Bradford when the redskins had a chance? Keep this in mind and I know it's way to early -- but Bradford is being projected as the next great qb.[/quote]

well, if McNabb plays sub par as you say, and we build a solid line in front of him, then WHEN we get the qb of the future (something the skins haven't ever really had) at least we will know his blind side is protected, and he will be able to shine. It's a little strange to me, given how it was a nearly unanimous cry to get OL after the last few years debacles, that somehow in hindsight some one is going to say maybe we shoulda gotten a QB. We had NO LT at all. none, zero, zilch. did you really want Heyer protecting SB's blind side? ugh what a scary thought.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;756500]well, if McNabb plays sub par as you say, and we build a solid line in front of him, then WHEN we get the qb of the future (something the skins haven't ever really had) at least we will know his blind side is protected, and he will be able to shine. It's a little strange to me, given how it was a nearly unanimous cry to get OL after the last few years debacles, that somehow in hindsight some one is going to say maybe we shoulda gotten a QB. We had NO LT at all. none, zero, zilch. did you really want Heyer protecting SB's blind side? ugh what a scary thought.[/quote]

Man ... did I say that I was on the fence... all the stuff you are saying about LT is true, but what if we missed on the next great qb. We may not be in position to do that in the next few years.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=warriorzpath;756503]Man ... did I say that I was on the fence... all the stuff you are saying about LT is true, but what if we missed on the next great qb. We may not be in position to do that in the next few years.[/quote]

Then we missed him because with all our s**kage last year we still did not s*** bad enough to get the first pick in the draft. Glad he went to a different division, only wish he had gone to the other conference :(.

Seriously, we couldn't have the 1st pick short of selling off our whole draft, or some other unreasonable compensation, so c'est la draft.

Bottomline, my answer is I am ok with what we did, mainly because it made better football sense given the conditions available at the time the decisions were made.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

I wonder if our first and second would have been enough for bradford?

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;756504]Then we missed him because with all our s**kage last year we still did not s*** bad enough to get the first pick in the draft. Glad he went to a different division, only wish he had gone to the other conference :(.

Seriously, we couldn't have the 1st pick short of selling off our whole draft, or some other unreasonable compensation, so c'est la draft.

Bottomline, my answer is I am ok with what we did, mainly because it made better football sense given the conditions available at the time the decisions were made.[/quote]

I think I'll be happy (agreeing with czaban on espn980) if McNabb stays with the redskins next season at the very least.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Trent Williams all the way.

Mcnabb is a bonus. We needed Trent period.

He will be here for years. This guy has played very well for a rookie. Sam Bradfords come and go.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=skinster;756505]I wonder if our first and second would have been enough for bradford?[/quote]

Franchise Quarterbacks are rare. If the Rams tagged Bradford at "90% sure to be good", we probably have to pay what Chicago paid for Cutler a couple times or more to get him.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=Giantone;756494]Bradford looks good now, what would he have looked like behind the Redskins O line,better or worse?[/quote]

The Skins O-Line is still a lot better then the Rams O-Line. Right now they simply have the benefit of playing against a weak schedule. The Skins on the other hand have faced Ware, Ratliff, Suh, Mario, Peppers, Freeny, Mathis, Cole, Matthews, among others.

The thing about McNabb is that he has at best 3 or 4 years left and with Shanahan coaching the Redskins aren't going to be in position to draft a franchise QB at the top of the draft for a while. At this point they have to hope that a talent like Jake Locker falls to them in the middle of the first round (not that I'm to crazy about Locker these days). However the chance to draft a franchise single caller like Bradford at the top of the first round is now long gone. 2017 might be the next time we get a chance to select a prospect like Bradford.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=warriorzpath;756489]I'll play devil's advocate- but what if McNabb continues to play subpar at qb and looking ahead at possible free agents and draft choices at qb in future years -- would it have been a mistake to not deal for Bradford when the redskins had a chance? Keep this in mind and I know it's way to early -- but Bradford is being projected as the next great qb.[/quote]

What if McNabb continues to play sub par? The way you are painting the picture it seems like you are looking for someone to say YES it was a huge mistake to get Mcnabb.
You should probably re-name this thread warrorzpath thinks it was a mistake to get McNabb and is looking for some people to agree with him.

I can play devil's advocate as well....what if Bradford goes into a huge sophomore slump next year and never gets out of it...and McNabb and the Redskins win a supebowl in 2012? What would you say about the trade then? Was it a good one?
It is still too early to decide.

Question to the people upset with McNabb: Did you honestly think Shanahan and McNabb would take a 4-12 team and make it a playoff team in one year? If you did you only have yourself to blame for being upset.
Even though we got the best LT in the 2010 draft in Trent Williams we are still battling with very poor play from our offensive line. Our center, LG and RT are not playing well. I can not imagine how bad we would be with Bradford and no Trent Williams. We would less than 4-4 right now.
Don't get fixated on the whole [B]young QB fantasy[/B] world. I don't care how old or young our QB is or where he was drafted.
We won our first and second superbowls with 34 year old Joe Thiesmann and 33 year old Doug Williams. Both cast offs from other teams. Rypien was no lottery pick either.
I do not need a pretty boy high draft pick QB.
The winning-est team in the NFL currently has 3 Sb titles since 2001 and their Qb is a sixth round pick.

[QUOTE=Defensewins;756521]What if McNabb continues to play sub par? The way you painting the picture it seems like you are looking for someone to say YES it was a huge mistake to get Mcnabb.
You should probably re-name this thread warrorzpath thinks it was a mistake and is looking for some people to agree with him.

I can play devil's advocate as well....what if Bradford goes into a huge sophomore slump next year and never gets out of it...and McNabb and the Redskins win a supebowl in 2012? What would you say about the trade then? Was it a good one?
It is still too early to decide. Question to the people upset with McNabb: Did you honestly think Shanahan and McNabb would be a playoff team in year one?
Even though we got the best LT in the 2010 draft in Trent Williams we are still battling with very poor play from our offensive line. Our center, LG and RT are not playing well. I can not imagine how bad we would be with Bradford and no Trent Williams. We would less than 4-4 right now.
Don't get fixated on the whole [B]young QB fantasy[/B] world. I don't care how old or young our QB is or where he was drafted.
We won our first and scond superbowls with 34 year old Joe Thiesmann and 33 year old Doug Williams. Both cast offs from other teams.
I do not need a pretty boy high draft pick QB.[/QUOTE]
This is what I was trying to say

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Tom Brady was a "young QB" when he won those Bowls.

Theismann was with us since 1974.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;756523]Tom Brady was a "young QB" when he won those Bowls.

Theismann was with us since 1974.[/quote]

So he is not young anymore....so what?
33 year old Tom Brady is leading the 6-1 patriots and is currently the 5th top rated passer in the NFL. They beat the two of the top teams in Jets and Ravens. That Ravensvs Pats game was played at playoff caliber play and hitting. High level of football. If you like to watch good football, the Steelers vs Patriots game in two weeks will be another high level play and caliber game.

Theismann was drafted by the Miami Dolphins. Theismann went to play in the bush league Canandian Football league. Theismann did not arrive in DC with huge fanfare or on a private jet. He probably flew coach. He was third string and returned punts just to see the field.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Which thread is better: This one or the game peanut butter thread.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

I say it's a toss-up. You don't want to pass up a franchise QB, period. But although Bradford looks good now, he's still a gamble and one hard hit on his shoulder away from a bad decision.

Trent Williams (or Okung) will be good for a long long time. Our offensive line completely sucks, and it just makes sense to fix it. With McNabb/TW you fix both positions quickly. The problem is that you haven't fixed the other 4 O-line positions.


After all that, I'd say the QB is more important and drafting Bradford would have been worth it. As has been said, getting a high draft pick to pick another franchise QB is not possible. We'll have to wait for another free agent QB (McNabb, Brees, or Cutler) to become available and/or get lucky with a late rounder like Brady.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Really tough to say, without knowing what we would have given up to get Bradford. What if we could have kept our 2nd and used it to make a move for someone like Marcus McNeil?

Too many variables to really know for sure

Had Bradford been there at #4 I would have taken him over Trent Williams though.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;756534]Really tough to say, without knowing what we would have given up to get Bradford. What if we could have kept our 2nd and used it to make a move for someone like Marcus McNeil?

Too many variables to really know for sure

Had Bradford been there at #4 I would have taken him over Trent Williams though.[/quote]

SmootSmack:

Thank you. Without knowing what the cost of the Bradford "trade-up" might have been, it is impossible to know what was the better thing to do.

Now if the Rams had demanded our entire OL from 2009 plus the 4th pick in the draft, I would have jumped at that in a minute because that would have forced the Skins to make major changes there - - and those major changes remain sorely needed...

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

This is sort of lame to even bother speculating. Bradford would have been destroyed had he come here!!!!!! This line sucks balls fellas. Trent is the only decent guy we have. Sam would have been killed vs the Lions and maybe got his shoulder popped again. This franchise is totally dysfunctional to even try to get a to QB without putting the line in place first. People are ripping Donovan a new one, when in reality, if we had Peyton or Tom here they would suck as well. We give away all of our top picks to acquire expensive FAs that rarely pan out as expected. To think that a new QB would right the team with this shitty line is sheer madness. Shoot, we could draft Mallet when he comes out or Moore from BSU(my fav right now), but they would be ineffective as well. You would think Allen would have thought of that with all of those wasted picks in this past draft. Why draft a TE, when you have two studs already? Most of our picks should have been o linemen, with the hope at least a couple would have been starting caliber or good backups. Our starters minus Trent would be backups in most of the other teams in the league and our backups wouldn't even get a roster spot on them.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=Defensewins;756525]So he is not young anymore....so what?
33 year old Tom Brady is leading the 6-1 patriots and is currently the 5th top rated passer in the NFL. They beat the two of the top teams in Jets and Ravens. That Ravensvs Pats game was played at playoff caliber play and hitting. High level of football. If you like to watch good football, the Steelers vs Patriots game in two weeks will be another high level play and caliber game.

Theismann was drafted by the Miami Dolphins. Theismann went to play in the bush league Canandian Football league. Theismann did not arrive in DC with huge fanfare or on a private jet. He probably flew coach. He was third string and returned punts just to see the field.[/quote]Bradford's youth is loved because the longevity of the benefits he would bring, not because it makes him super better right now. So far, he's proven himself capable of playing the game very well and hence he will return 10+ years of greatness for the Rams barring any unfortunate circumstances.

McNabb expiration date is coming soon, and we'd be damned if we don't do something in the near future to cushion the loss.

Sonny and Billy also vowed together to block Theismann because of his attitude.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

I think this is a silly question. Really a franchise qb is all a team needs to compete for any given game. A left tackle can not do that. Yea we wouldnt be as good for the next few years, but it would DEF pay off in the long run. We can make a respectable o-line within the next couple of years without williams, but an elite qb is something that is near impossible to come across unless you have a top pick. Make no mistake, bradford WILL be elite a few years down the road.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

They should have left McNabb in PHI, kept Campbell, Grossman, and dealt for Beck if they didn't already know what he was capable or uncapable of. The same can be said for Brown. Heyer has played just as much as he has. Just a lot of thrown away picks for guys that are being evaluated. And look at Dockery.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=diehard;756554]They should have left McNabb in PHI, kept Campbell, Grossman, and dealt for Beck if they didn't already know what he was capable or uncapable of. The same can be said for Brown. Heyer has played just as much as he has. Just a lot of thrown away picks for guys that are being evaluated. And look at Dockery.[/quote]

I disagree about Campbell. Campbell was not going to develop much here, and looking at the line's play this year, his trade value would have become almost nothing. He too was going to "expire" for us because he was soon going to be an UFA.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=warriorzpath;756496]But since McNabb may possibly not be a redskin next year. Would it have been a better investment to have drafted Bradford -- of course, looking back?[/quote]
McNabb gives you a chance to win now and that is what the Redskins want ...to win now also there never really is a down size to building up your O line,would Bradford have reacted to Shanahan the same way as to Spagnola,....just too many if's.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;756561]I disagree about Campbell. Campbell was not going to develop much here, and looking at the line's play this year, his trade value would have become almost nothing. He too was going to "expire" for us because he was soon going to be an UFA.[/quote]But, McNabb is developing? We lost picks in both scenarios. I agree the team needed an overhaul but, if the talent pool was next to zilch, why throw away picks just to bring a guy in to compete? Shanahan's ego makes you think he's a pee-wee coach. To stay on topic, it makes sense to have traded up to draft Bradford for all that was lost with aquiring McNabb and possibly losing him after just one year. Let's see how this pans out. It looks ugly right now. :benched: (Change the jersey to number 5)

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

Drafting Bradford wasn't an option - the Rams weren't passing on that opportunity. If they had, I would have been tempted, but the Redskins of ANY franchise should have a historical appreciation for great offensive line play. Gibbs 1.0 rode his O-line to 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QB's, only one of whom ever approached "franchise QB" status (Theismann). I want to see the FO continuing to addressing O-line needs early and often in the next 2-3 drafts. Putting Bradford behind this bunch (minus Trent Williams) could have been a disaster to his psyche.

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=diehard;756575]But, McNabb is developing? We lost picks in both scenarios. I agree the team needed an overhaul but, if the talent pool was next to zilch, why throw away picks just to bring a guy in to compete? Shanahan's ego makes you think he's a pee-wee coach. To stay on topic, it makes sense to have traded up to draft Bradford for all that was lost with aquiring McNabb and possibly losing him after just one year. Let's see how this pans out. It looks ugly right now. :benched: (Change the jersey to number 5)[/quote]
You're talking to the wrong guy. I've recently been of the view of letting Grossman be the tackling dummy for the season would have been the better move. Shanahan's a better GM than Vinny, but almost everyone is. He's not that good though, certainly not Sam Pollock(Habs GM who grabbed Guy Lafleur) good. The Brown and McNabb trades were mistakes. They'll "expire" way too soon and we'll have to start all over again.

We missed out on Nate Allen or Lamarr Houston.

So, in short: No Campbell, No McNabb is my stance now. It seems like becoming a Habs fan has its perks. :Smoker:

Re: Better Decision: Draft/Deal for Bradford or Trade for McNabb/Draft T. Williams?
 

[quote=diehard;756554]They should have left McNabb in PHI, kept Campbell, Grossman, and dealt for Beck if they didn't already know what he was capable or uncapable of. The same can be said for Brown. Heyer has played just as much as he has. Just a lot of thrown away picks for guys that are being evaluated. And look at Dockery.[/quote]

If Campbell was still the QB this team would be 2-6.