Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

Wow, the post office is only 8.5 billion in the red that's pretty good for a federal program/agency. I'm sure they will get it fixed like they are fixing health care and all our other problems.But don't worry I'm sure social security, Medicare, and the other federal programs are financially strong.

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/11/postal_service_posts_85_billio.html"]Federal Eye - Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss[/URL]

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

The should just scrap the postal service all together. It's slowly going the way of the dinosaurs anyway.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Mattyk;759472]The should just scrap the postal service all together. It's slowly going the way of the dinosaurs anyway.[/quote]Since I currently work in the direct marketing industry (ie retail/financial junk mail) I sincerely hope this doesn't happen any time soon.
And actually I think it will be a long time before regular mail is completely abandon. Many people still use it all the time.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;759486]Since I currently work in the direct marketing industry (ie retail/financial junk mail) I sincerely hope this doesn't happen any time soon.
And actually I think it will be a long time before regular mail is completely abandon. Many people still use it all the time.[/quote]

If I give you my address would you take me off your junk mail list? LOL

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759492]if i give you my address would you take me off your junk mail list? Lol[/quote][b][size="7"]never!!![/size][/b]

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Mattyk;759472]The should just scrap the postal service all together. It's slowly going the way of the dinosaurs anyway.[/quote]

They have been loosing money for a long time its just finally catching up to them. When you give great benefits and people can retire at age 55 then your going to have problems. I don't knock anyone for working for the federal government its just we cannot afford to keep going like this.

[url=http://www.opm.gov/retire/faq/pre/faq11.asp]Retirement Eligibility[/url]

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

F... junk mail. Seriously, why can't you opt out of that shit? Chaps my ass that I have to pay to toss it out.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759498]They have been loosing money for a long time its just finally catching up to them. When you give great benefits and people can retire at age 55 then your going to have problems. I don't knock anyone for working for the federal government its just we cannot afford to keep going like this.

[URL="http://www.opm.gov/retire/faq/pre/faq11.asp"]Retirement Eligibility[/URL][/quote]

yes, the postal service and other fed gov't jobs have way too many benefits, perks and pensions on top of the fact that most are lazy as hell, rude and indifferent to doing their job efficiently or effectively.

it just doesnt make sense in this day and age to go to the priv sector where you have to work your ass off then pay for your own benefits.

shit, in balt city firefighters and police have a guaranteed return on their pension benefits to an interest rate that was relative to the stock market in the 90s when it was booming. if it drops below the int rate, which it has by alot compared to the 90s the city and tax payer money have to make up the difference. these a holes are now protesting and saying the mayor has turned her back on them.

no aholes, you arent going to get the benefit of getting 100k plus a year during retirement for 20 years of crappy service.

i have a client who just left, she is getting a total of 6k in benefits a month. 6 frakin k, she hasnt worked in a long time, is on disability (yet she can walk and talk fine) and drives a freakin lexus, gets her hair done (that aint cheap) and has acrylic nails. WTF WTF WTF!

hearing about state and fed employees pensions, benefits etc when i have to work closely with these lazy uneducated POS just grinds my gears.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Mattyk;759500]F... junk mail. Seriously, why can't you opt out of that shit? Chaps my ass that I have to pay to toss it out.[/quote]

Why do you have yo pay to toss out junk mail? I give it to my daughter and she gets a kick of sitting there opening up mail like mom and dad and pretends to read it. I don't mind junk male because I'm in sales and advertise myself and I have done plenty of mailings over the years. I'm also the person who does not mind solicitors knocking on the door because I have done that myself and they are only trying to do their job. Annoying yes but I'll live with it.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

I pay for garbage removal, therefore I'm paying to toss it out.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Mattyk;759578]I pay for garbage removal, therefore I'm paying to toss it out.[/quote]

I thought that's what you where saying but trash service will not drop its prices if junk mail stopped. Actually if junk mail stopped it would cost you money in postage because junk mail must pay a good chunk of the Postal income.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

Thanks but I still hate junk mail. It's a waste of my time and a waste of paper. I rarely use the USPS so another rate hike wouldn't bother me.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

I probably am being hypocritical on this, but really... 8.5billion in the red to keep mail service available to every address in the US. Maybe it should get the ax, but anyone who tried SS's NYTimes budget balancing thing realizes that 8.5Billion don't mean squat in the scheme of things. If we get Defense, SocialSec, Medicare, etc down to where 8.5billion balances the budget, then hack it, hack it to pieces. Until then, cutting it can be looked at 2 ways, 1- a meaningless throwaway that politicians can use for campaign fluff, or 2- a creation of a hardship on people in rural areas for a function that government has been tasked with since the 1800's to allow for politicians to get their pet projects funded

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Mattyk;759611]Thanks but I still hate junk mail. It's a waste of my time and a waste of paper. I rarely use the USPS so another rate hike wouldn't bother me.[/quote]

I don't mail much personally but my business does. I try to fax, email, set customers up on ebill, but there is still a large % who don't like that and want a bill. Hell I get 5 to 10 people who come into my office to pay their bill by check and then want a receipt. That I don't get. I can give people a 15% discount off their auto ins. if they do automatic withdraw and ebill and only about 40% of the people will sign up for that.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;759629]I probably am being hypocritical on this, but really... 8.5billion in the red to keep mail service available to every address in the US. Maybe it should get the ax, but anyone who tried SS's NYTimes [B]budget balancing thing realizes that 8.5Billion don't mean squat in the scheme of things. [/B]If we get Defense, SocialSec, Medicare, etc down to where 8.5billion balances the budget, then hack it, hack it to pieces. Until then, cutting it can be looked at 2 ways, 1- a meaningless throwaway that politicians can use for campaign fluff, or 2- a creation of a hardship on people in rural areas for a function that government has been tasked with since the 1800's to allow for politicians to get their pet projects funded[/quote]

That's the thinking we need to get away from. I feel if we start getting every federal employee or person working for the goverment to find ways to save $100 here and $100 there then we start to make a dent in this problem. Its not always the other persons waisted money that's the problem. Its time for everyone to watch what they spend.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759634]I don't mail much personally but my business does. I try to fax, email, set customers up on ebill, but there is still a large % who don't like that and want a bill. Hell I get 5 to 10 people who come into my office to pay their bill by check and then want a receipt. That I don't get. I can give people a 15% discount off their auto ins. if they do automatic withdraw and ebill and only about 40% of the people will sign up for that.[/quote]Some companies are still weird about paying online. I pay all of my bills online now except for my water bill because those F'ers charge me a $3 service fee for anything other than a mailed check.
So I could pay $3 every month for my $13 water bill or I could pay $.044. Um, tough choice.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759635]That's the thinking we need to get away from. I feel if we start getting every federal employee or person working for the goverment to find ways to save $100 here and $100 there then we start to make a dent in this problem. Its not always the other persons waisted money that's the problem. Its time for everyone to watch what they spend.[/quote]

Our governments issues is not the nickel and dime type problems. It is the approx 66% of the "non discretionary" spending that will solve the problems. I am sorry, but 100 here or 100 there doesn't cut it.

The solution, at least for "rational" people is not to cut the legitimate and long standing processes of government, but to cut the overgrown monstrosity that it has become.

Should the post office do what it can to run at a 0 net loss, sure, but don't let saving those few billion detract from what should be the bigger goal of getting the government back under control.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;759644][B]Our governments issues is not the nickel and dime type problems. It is the approx 66% of the "non discretionary" spending that will solve the problems. I am sorry, but 100 here or 100 there doesn't cut it.[/B]

The solution, at least for "rational" people is not to cut the legitimate and long standing processes of government, but to cut the overgrown monstrosity that it has become.

Should the post office do what it can to run at a 0 net loss, sure, but don't let saving those few billion detract from what should be the bigger goal of getting the government back under control.[/quote]

I'd say that what started the problem and its the real way to start and fix the problem. Look at the people here that are saying that 8.6 billions is no big deal in the larger picture. See if you teach people how to not waist $100 then its much easier to teach them how not to waist $1000, $100,000 , 1,000,000,0000, etc.... Any business person know when you need to cut cost you start with the easy smaller cuts and work your way up.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759808]I'd say that what started the problem and its the real way to start and fix the problem. Look at the people here that are saying that 8.6 billions is no big deal in the larger picture. See if you teach people how to not waist $100 then its much easier to teach them how not to waist $1000, $100,000 , 1,000,000,0000, etc.... Any business person know when you need to cut cost you start with the easy smaller cuts and work your way up.[/quote]

What started the problem, was when citizens (poor and rich) start looking to the government for handouts. And even more so, when our government, and the people by extension, decided to get caught up in foreign entanglements. I understand your thought process, but you are letting the numbers cloud your process.
Currently the national debt is:
$ 1 3 , 7 9 6 , 1 8 6 , 8 8 8 , 5 2 5 . 0 6
post office loss
$ 0 0 , 0 0 8 , 5 0 0 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0

putting this in perspective: if a company is running a $14,000 dollar debt, and you go to the owner and say our telemarketing unit lost $8.50 last year, Chances are the owner will say "well see what you can do." and focus on the retirement plan that is running $3000 in debt or the transportation and security concerns that are running $4500 in debt.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;759813]What started the problem, was when citizens (poor and rich) start looking to the government for handouts. And even more so, when our government, and the people by extension, decided to get caught up in foreign entanglements. I understand your thought process, but you are letting the numbers cloud your process.
Currently the national debt is:
$ 1 3 , 7 9 6 , 1 8 6 , 8 8 8 , 5 2 5 . 0 6
post office loss
$ 0 0 , 0 0 8 , 5 0 0 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0

putting this in perspective: if a company is running a $14,000 dollar debt, and you go to the owner[B] and say our telemarketing unit lost $8.50 last year[/B], Chances are the owner will say "well see what you can do." and focus on the retirement plan that is running $3000 in debt or the transportation and security concerns that are running $4500 in debt.[/quote]

Well a telemarking dept. is suppose to generate money so if its loosing money that's a bigger issue. Also a retirment accounts allways cost money (cost of having employees) and never makes money so thats a poor example. Your other examples are also cost to a business and never make money so they are also poor examples.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759838]Well a telemarking dept. is suppose to generate money so if its loosing money that's a bigger issue. Also a retirment accounts allways cost money (cost of having employees) and never makes money so thats a poor example. Your other examples are also cost to a business and never make money so they are also poor examples.[/quote]

the biggest drains on the budget are medicare/ss (retirement) and defense (transp. and security).

The government isn't a business, and hence no part of "makes" money (except the treasury lol). I used the business analogy as a frame of reference but tried to be transparent enough that you could substitute in Postal Service = telemarketing, retirement = social security/medicare, and transportation/security = National defense.

Bottom line: a businessman that is hacking a useful part of his corporation that lost $8.50 when he has $14,000.00 in debt to get control of, isn't going to be in business very long.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

good points CR, makes perfect sense to me.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;759486]Since I currently work in the direct marketing industry (ie retail/financial junk mail) I sincerely hope this doesn't happen any time soon.
And actually I think it will be a long time before regular mail is completely abandon. [B]Many people still use it all the time[/B].[/quote]

No one that's relevant. :cheeky-sm

Seriously, if billy bob and beth ann from middle america can't figure out a way to pay their bills online and do paperless banking, let 'em starve.

(kidding... kind of....)

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

Look I'm just using your example and I know our biggest issues are SS/medicare and the military. Any business that has spending problems need to start from the bottom and work up is all I'm saying. We can stick a bandaid on this by increasing SS ben. to 67, cut medicare etc... but we are not fixing the problem of spending we are just ****ing people out of their retirement that the government took from them. Or we can start to make the tough decisions from the bottom and get government under control so we don't have to keep patching things together.

As we discuss this government agencies are on a spending spree so they can spend their entire budget by the end of the year even if they don't need to spend. That so they don't loose that money next year but why fix that those stupid items only cost a $100 here and a $1,000 there. Same think as to why fix the Post Office its only 8.6 billion and not the real problem. I guess we should also keep earmarks because they account for less then 1% of spending.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;759926]No one that's relevant. :cheeky-sm

Seriously, if billy bob and beth ann from middle america can't figure out a way to pay their bills online and do paperless banking, let 'em starve.

(kidding... kind of....)[/quote]

Billy Bob and Beth Ann still don't use debit cards and instead whip out the checkbook at Wal-Marts... one step at a time.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759939]Look I'm just using your example and I know our biggest issues are SS/medicare and the military. Any business that has spending problems need to start from the bottom and work up is all I'm saying. We can stick a bandaid on this by increasing SS ben. to 67, cut medicare etc... but we are not fixing the problem of spending we are just ****ing people out of their retirement that the government took from them. Or we can start to make the tough decisions from the bottom and get government under control so we don't have to keep patching things together.

As we discuss this government agencies are on a spending spree so they can spend their entire budget by the end of the year even if they don't need to spend. That so they don't loose that money next year but why fix that those stupid items only cost a $100 here and a $1,000 there. Same think as to why fix the Post Office its only 8.6 billion and not the real problem. I guess we should also keep earmarks because they account for less then 1% of spending.[/quote]

k.
as i have said multiple times. If someone shows a legitimate plan to bring the govt back under control, and that plan includes(but doesn't rely on) hacking the post office, fine hack away. But if some politician is going to try to sell me a bill of goods that he did something to reduce the govt because he got rid of the US Post Office then he/she can kiss my heinie.

I agree with one thing you wrote, we need to stop trying to patchwork it.

We need politicians who have the intestinal fortitude to take a look at things from scratch, and say this is what we need to do, these are our priorities, and this is what we need to do to have a functioning, fiscally responsible govt that meets the requirements and duties as outlined in the constitution.

This all makes me think of the constitutional convention. Can you imagine, just a few years after the country was created, they got together, rather than going to war against each other, and agreed to scrap the old plan entirely, and start new and from scratch! That was radical

I am not saying that we need a constitutional convention, but we do need to throw out the old ways and get serious about having a functional fiscally responsible government

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;759961]k.
as i have said multiple times. If someone shows a legitimate plan to bring the govt back under control, and that plan includes(but doesn't rely on) hacking the post office, fine hack away. But if some politician is going to try to sell me a bill of goods that he did something to reduce the govt because he got rid of the US Post Office then he/she can kiss my heinie.

I agree with one thing you wrote, we need to stop trying to patchwork it.

We need politicians who have the intestinal fortitude to take a look at things from scratch, and say this is what we need to do, these are our priorities, and this is what we need to do to have a functioning, fiscally responsible govt that meets the requirements and duties as outlined in the constitution.

This all makes me think of the constitutional convention. Can you imagine, just a few years after the country was created, they got together, rather than going to war against each other, and agreed to scrap the old plan entirely, and start new and from scratch! That was radical

I am not saying that we need a constitutional convention, but we do need to throw out the old ways and get serious about having a functional fiscally responsible government[/quote]

I pretty much agree with you.

The actual reason I started this thread was to point out another failing government function.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Mattyk;759944]Billy Bob and Beth Ann still don't use debit cards and instead whip out the checkbook at Wal-Marts... one step at a time.[/quote]

I think you would be surprised at how many people still whip out the checkbook at all levels of income and education. I think my parents write checks for most of their purchases. They are both educated and very well off I think its the physical act of writing and having that check as proof of purchase that they are stuck in.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759566]Why do you have yo pay to toss out junk mail? I give it to my daughter and she gets a kick of sitting there opening up mail like mom and dad and pretends to read it. I don't mind [B]junk male[/B] because I'm in sales and advertise myself and I have done plenty of mailings over the years. I'm also the person who does not mind solicitors knocking on the door because I have done that myself and they are only trying to do their job. Annoying yes but I'll live with it.[/quote]

Never knew you were into that FD. lol

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;760004]Never knew you were into that FD. lol[/quote]

I'm not. I'm a very strong 1 on the Kinsey Scale.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759990]I think you would be surprised at how many people still whip out the checkbook at all levels of income and education. I think my parents write checks for most of their purchases. They are both educated and very well off I think its the physical act of writing and having that check as proof of purchase that they are stuck in.[/quote]

I honestly don't think I've seen anyone write a check in the past two years. And I live in the most backward ass area on the east coast...

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;760044]I honestly don't think I've seen anyone write a check in the past two years. And I live in the most backward ass area on the east coast...[/quote]

Most of my older customers write checks and I'll write checks now and then but I have to go looking for my check book to write one. My parents still write checks and sit down once a month to balance their check book to the penny. I guess after doing that for 50 yrs why change at age 72. One advantage of writing checks is that they are easier to read what they went to on a bank statement. I also write 20 or checks a month for my business. Now that I think about it I have 5 checking accounts to keep up.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

I wrote a check for my son's school the other day, and after finding the checkbook, realized the imprinted address was about 4 years old. I don't write many checks. Although, with my bank, they send out checks for a couple of bills on a weekly basis that they actually print out checks and send via us postal service.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=firstdown;759634]I don't mail much personally but my business does. I try to fax, email, set customers up on ebill, but there is still a large % who don't like that and want a bill. Hell I get 5 to 10 people who come into my office to pay their bill by check and then want a receipt. That I don't get. I can give people a 15% discount off their auto ins. if they do automatic withdraw and ebill and only about 40% of the people will sign up for that.[/quote]

Wait, you sell insurance? It must be nice to work in a business in which the government forces people to use.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

All I can say is in an era when everyone wants you to use the internet to send letter or chat immediatly or pay a bill, the US Postal Service will start seeing more loss of revenue.

I thought that there was a time when the USPS encouraged people to pay their bills on line like around the 90's? Oh well.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=Angry;760198]Wait, you sell insurance? It must be nice to work in a business in which the government forces people to use.[/quote]

It would be just fine with me if the government stopped forcing people to purchase auto ins. Thats just a small % of what we sell and my house hold make up here is the 35 to 45 year old couples with 1.7 kids with incomes around $150,000 plus. Most of them purchase ins. to protect their assets and not because they are forced to buy ins. If that was the case they would just buy the minimum coverage and not increase their coverages. If I wanted government help I'd be for more regulations which drives up the prices and my commissions. Good example of that is New Jersey and New York. I've had customers move from NY to Va. and save $4,000 just on their auto ins. If Va was regulated like NY that would be another 4 grand I would get paid commission on. To be fair some of that is higher labor cost but allot has to do with heavy regulations.

Also the state of Va. does not force anyone to purchase auto ins. If you don't want to buy ins you just have to pay DMV the $500 and your good to go.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

USPS is explicitly authorized by the Constitution but whatever. Maybe we can get Republicans to defund it? That seems to be all the rage these days. Something needs to be done for sure.

Re: Postal Service posts $8.5 billion loss
 

[quote=saden1;761902]USPS is explicitly authorized by the Constitution but whatever. Maybe we can get Republicans to defund it? That seems to be all the rage these days. Something needs to be done for sure.[/quote]

Its funded by postage. I actually think the post office does a good job at delivering the mail but it must do a poor job at managing expenses and cost. They are not force to make budget because the tax payers bail them out. I'd also bet in their good years when they had a surplus it was spent on pay increases, bonuses, new hires, etc... amd they never plained on any tough times.