Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

2008:
We draft Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Malcolm Kelly.

What could have been:
Had we stayed in the first round:
We had an 8/13 chance of getting a stud if we go by players at that pick or after it but before the 2nd round spent on Thomas.
We could have had one of the following:
Sam Baker
Rashard Mendenhall
Chris Johnson
Mike Jenkins
Duane Brown
Dustin Keller
Kenny Phillips

Had we chosen our second rounders differently:
The selection for Thomas
We could have had one of the following:
Brandon Flowers
Jordy Nelson
Eddie Royal
John Carlson

We could have had one of the following instead of Fred Davis:
DeSean Jackson
Calais Campbell

Instead of Kelly, we could have had one of the following:
Ray Rice

We could have reached for Jamaal Charles too.

2009 Draft:
The infamous Jason Taylor trade left Miami picking the bust Pat White. However, there were players available that would have provided more for us than what Taylor did, and for less money to boot.

Max Unger
LeSean McCoy
Phil Loadholt
William Beatty

2010 Draft
Coughed up the goods to Philly(we love being Philly's little helpers)

Could have had one of the following:
Nate Allen
T.J Ward
Lamarr Houston
Taylor Mays
Terrence Cody
Montario Hardesty

Yes, I'm quite aware that there are a bunch of to-be dud players in those rounds. But still, quality starters could have been had if we kept those damn picks or in 2008, chosen better.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

While it would have been completely unreasonable to expect us to avoid busts and draft only stars, its not beyond request to ask our front office to do a better job protecting it's early picks and doing a better job picking in the second and third rounds.

Our first round track record is excellent though. If the existance of Jerod Mayo at no. 21 in 2008 had caused us to stay in the first round, we would have landed four potential superstars from 2007-2010 in the first round.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

Man, if we had gotten brandon flowers, desean jackson, and jason jones we would be in a much different situation right now (probably would not have brian or laron though)

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=skinster;767399]Man, if we had gotten brandon flowers, desean jackson, and jason jones we would be in a much different situation right now (probably would not have brian or laron though)[/quote]

We would still have LaRon, but yeah, since Jackson would likely have made some sort of immediate impact, and thus we possibly would have come out of 2008 better than 8-8. Then again, the Rock Cartwright and ARE monopolies may have remained intact and he would have just supplanted Thrash.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.. The past is the past my man, yea it Sux that MK and DT were bust but they were the 2 TOP rated WRs in that draft, sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.. Sad thing for redskins fans is the bear seems to always get us. I'm already in basketball mode honestly, I will prob watch some of the game tomorrow but I'm sure we will find a way to lose a tight game in which we should have won.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;767407]Coulda, woulda, shoulda.. The past is the past my man, yea it Sux that MK and DT were bust but they were the 2 TOP rated WRs in that draft, sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.. Sad thing for redskins fans is the bear seems to always get us. I'm already in basketball mode honestly, I will prob watch some of the game tomorrow but I'm sure we will find a way to lose a tight game in which we should have won.[/quote]And it would be good to learn from the past so we learn some lessons from it.

It doesn't matter how highly they were rated. They were both high return, high risk propositions and everyone knew it(DT=raw and just ran go routes. MK=injuries all the time). The only teams that should have made a go for them are those who could buffer themselves against such a potential loss to such an investment, aka teams that were already "set" at WR in 2008 or had super awesome coaches who would fix their flaws(i.e Shanny here or Hue Jackson there in Oakland).

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

Do any of these guys double up as an offensive lineman?

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;767468]Do any of these guys double up as an offensive lineman?[/quote]

They could have been trade bait for one.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

I just realized we've gone a long time without mentioning Malcolm Kelly.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

kickers have haunted us for years when are they going to wake up and get a real kicker who wont choke the game away and can kick the 50s

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

these games sicken me when we lose what draft choices did we trade away this year?

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

The trifecta of Thomas, Davis, and Kelly have yielded virtually nothing. Perhaps Kelly will become the big posession receiver we need, but to think that pick could have been Ray Rice is very demoralizing. We really need to hit gold on both our 1st and 2nd round picks next year. As the losses mount, those are looking more and more like a top 10 pick in each round.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

This thread could apply to almost all teams. Every team can point to a guy they could have taken instead

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;767804]I just realized we've gone a long time without mentioning Malcolm Kelly.[/quote]

Yes, I'm hoping against hope Kelly actually starts to play next year. Looked like he had streaks of potential, and by next year he'll have had 1.5 years to heal after microfracture surgery... He hasn't put together anything substantial on the field yet, and there's a fair chance Shanny dumps him before the season if he doesn't come to play..

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=SmootSmack;768109]This thread could apply to almost all teams. Every team can point to a guy they could have taken instead[/quote]

Have other teams outside of Matt Millen's Detroit Lions been as consistent as we have been in ****ing up the second round in "recent" memory?

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;768194]Have other teams outside of Matt Millen's Detroit Lions been as consistent as we have been in ****ing up the second round in "recent" memory?[/quote]

Can't **** up in the second round when you're not picking. So the truth is we don't really fail that much when it comes to second round picks :D

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

I'll tell you the pick that might have done more damage than any of us think: Moving up to get Rocky McIntosh in 2006. First off, at this point in his career, I believe it's safe to say that Rocky just isn't very special. At best you could say he's solid, but I'm not even sure you can say that anymore. Whiffing on the run by Brandon Jacobs last week, then getting completely turned around on the TD pass to Winslow yesterday -- McIntosh has never proven to be worth all the manuevering it took to get him.

Then when you couple the fact that we traded away a 2nd round pick in 2007, it's yet another in a long line of draft day blunders that didn't pay off.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=Beemnseven;768205]I'll tell you the pick that might have done more damage than any of us think: Moving up to get Rocky McIntosh in 2006. First off, at this point in his career, I believe it's safe to say that Rocky just isn't very special. At best you could say he's solid, but I'm not even sure you can say that anymore. Whiffing on the run by Brandon Jacobs last week, then getting completely turned around on the TD pass to Winslow yesterday -- McIntosh has never proven to be worth all the manuevering it took to get him.

Then when you couple the fact that we traded away a 2nd round pick in 2007, it's yet another in a long line of draft day blunders that didn't pay off.[/quote]

Agreed, Rocky looks nothing like a guy that's worth 2 2nd rounders. I liked him in the 4-3 OLB, he's a good starter there.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

That was just a terrible draft class for the whole nfl. Talent was sparse. But even so we could have given up what we did (2 seconds and a 6th) to move up into the middle of the first to overdraft somebody else, and i would have felt much better about that missed pick because at least we got spot value as opposed to being double wrong

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

I think we are hating on Rocky too much. He was fine as a starter in the 4-3, it's just kind of obvious he's not a 3-4 linebacker. We can still get value for him if we trade him to a team that runs a 4-3. I think he's probably gonna get traded this offseason anyways, we need the picks.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=mooby;768400]I think we are hating on Rocky too much. He was fine as a starter in the 4-3, it's just kind of obvious he's not a 3-4 linebacker. We can still get value for him if we trade him to a team that runs a 4-3. I think he's probably gonna get traded this offseason anyways, we need the picks.[/quote]

I'm sorry . . . the guy is dud. No two ways about it. 3-4, 4-3, doesn't matter -- he just doesn't make plays. And considering how hard they went after him, the draft picks we gave up to bring him here, you have to do some unbelievable stuff to justify that.

I can't remember the last time he was involved in a big play, regardless of the system.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

Rocky was definitely better suited for the 4-3. I doubt he's back next year.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

Currently there are no plans to keep McIntosh

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

This is going back a good way, but one pick that still irks me was Marty Schottenheimer taking Rod Gardner in the middle of the 1st round, when Steve Hutchinson was on the board. That was 2001 when Samuels and Jansen were just entering their prime years. Add Hutchinson at that time and we might've had the best O-line in the league for a good 5 years.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=Beemnseven;768205]I'll tell you the pick that might have done more damage than any of us think: Moving up to get Rocky McIntosh in 2006. First off, at this point in his career, I believe it's safe to say that Rocky just isn't very special. At best you could say he's solid, but I'm not even sure you can say that anymore. Whiffing on the run by Brandon Jacobs last week, then getting completely turned around on the TD pass to Winslow yesterday -- McIntosh has never proven to be worth all the manuevering it took to get him.

Then when you couple the fact that we traded away a 2nd round pick in 2007, it's yet another in a long line of draft day blunders that didn't pay off.[/quote]

We can also look back on the Jason Taylor trade that we got virtually nothing for in exchange.

The second round has not been kind to the Redskins. In the last thirteen years we've drafted eight times in the second round. Take a look at our second round draftees since 1997.

1997 - 1 player - Greg Jones
1998 - 1 player - Steven Alexander
1999 - 1 player - Jon Jansen
2000 - 0 players
2001 - 1 player - Fred Smoot
2002 - 1 player - Ladell Betts
2003 - 1 player - Taylor Jacobs
2004 - 0 players
2005 - 0 players
2006 - 1 player - Rocky McIntosh
2007 - 0 players
2008 - 3 players - Devin Thomas - Malcom Kelly - Fred Davis
2009 - 0 players
2010 - 0 players
Fred Davis & Rocky McIntosh only two still active....Malcom Kelly on IR.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

this is why teams like new england and philly thrive, they draft well in the second round. anybody can get a first round pick right (other than the worst of franchises) but the later round picks can make the difference.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

"I can't believe the claims in this thread."


[img]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/cerratoeagles09bpregame.jpg[/img]

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;768196]Can't **** up in the second round when you're not picking. So the truth is we don't really fail that much when it comes to second round picks :D[/quote]

Not giving ourselves an opportunity to pick is just a bad as failing on a pick if the returns are not enough. And we're still using those picks to acquire a player, just not in the draft itself.

Re: Our performance in the 2nd round for the past three years and what could have been
 

[quote=mooby;768400]I think we are hating on Rocky too much. He was fine as a starter in the 4-3, it's just kind of obvious he's not a 3-4 linebacker. We can still get value for him if we trade him to a team that runs a 4-3. I think he's probably gonna get traded this offseason anyways, we need the picks.[/quote]I don't think it has much to do with scheme. He was well protected in our 4-3 to the point where he was just a warm body: if he screwed up, Fletcher would be behind him to clean up. No biggie. His only value in addition to being a starter was to make some plays against the pass, but as bad as his reads were against the run, he might actually be more of a liability against the pass.

It's certainly not Rocky's fault we're playing the 3-4 or that we traded up to get him in the second round, but he's already 29, and just isn't that good. Right now, he's in a scheme where offensive coordinators are exploiting his suckiness. He likely won't be having such a bad year next season, probably because he's unlikely to be a starter.

I think, like Devin Thomas, you could put Rocky on special teams and let him run around at big speeds and hit something, and you've got a pretty nice contributor on your team if you do that. I just don't think he belongs in an NFL defense, a lot like Thomas didn't belong in an NFL offense.

Unfortunately, the Redskins have too many players who are good special teamers, but play offense/defense at a level below what is needed to be successful as a team.