Our Current status at the WR position
 

I know a lot of people have been hating on our receivers this year, but let me drop some knowledge on you guys about our passing game:

Santana Moss was 4th in the NFL in catches. He had more catches, and about the same/more yards than: Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Marshall, and somebody who's very comparable to Moss, Wes Welker. If we can get Santana back at a reasonable price, we almost have to pull the trigger. He's great out of the slot.

Anthony Armstrong was 26th in the NFL in yards, and he had a 19.8 yards per catch, which is incredible. By my quick glance at the stats, that's more than all but two #2 WR's in the NFL (Jabar Gaffney-4 more yards, and Mario Manningham- which if not for us, probably wouldn't have had more yards).

As a team, we were also tied for 3rd in the NFL for most 40+ yd completions. Cooley also had another pretty good year.

There's no doubt we need to upgrade some of our depth, and infuse some youth/potential into our WR corps, but by no means is it as horrible as everyone has been saying. With another year in the offense, a draft pick or signing, and hopefully better play from the quarterback position, we should be pretty OK at that position.

P.S. It was mind-blowing that we ever had Joey Galloway and/or Roydell Williams even on our roster. That's probably where the general feeling of suckiness from our WR's comes from. We definitely need to upgrade our depth.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

If you bring a deep threat to complement Moss, I think he can have the same success that Welker had when R. Moss went to NE.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Those are pretty hollow stats unfortunately as between the three of them, they had 12 TD which is a good year from a #1 WR, not from a trio.

Moss would make a killer slot WR, Armstrong can be a #3 on a good team but is our #2 and Cooley is solid as a TE. If we have a true #1 and a QB that can make it work one thing is shown by these numbers, the system works! We don't need to completely overhaul the WR corp but people need to be in their proper roles. Austin and Banks can provide some depth but they are both #4 WR max on a good team. Expect this unit to be addressed in free agency and maybe in the middle of the draft.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Ruhskins;774785]If you bring a deep threat to complement Moss, I think he can have the same success that Welker had when R. Moss went to NE.[/quote]

Armstrong was our deep threat. He averaged almost 20 yards per reception. Fred Davis had a higher per catch average than Moss. Moss was our possession receiver this year.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Pretty good stats but as Paintrain says, we need to look at scoring production. A stat like most 20+ yd/ most 40+ yd completions aren't that great of a metric.

Blame falls all around from the lack of a decent OL, inconsistencies at QB/RB so WR corps did an okay job all around.

Definitely think we should keep Moss, Armstrong, Austin, and Banks though so hopefully they become a solid WR corps for the future.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Stats are a [U]imperfect[/U] log of what happens physically on the field. They don't tell you anything about the players' playmaking ability, how defenses respect them, etc. Moss is a prime example. His role was expanded this year so that he plays both the slot and his regular deep role. Andre Johnson played hurt all year, Fitz and Marshall suffered from horrible QB play, and Welker is on a New England team that spreads the ball around to everyone.

And Cooley is a tight end. We still have no #3 WR.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Paintrain;774788]Those are pretty hollow stats unfortunately as between the three of them, they had 12 TD which is a good year from a #1 WR, not from a trio.

Moss would make a killer slot WR, Armstrong can be a #3 on a good team but is our #2 and Cooley is solid as a TE. If we have a true #1 and a QB that can make it work one thing is shown by these numbers, the system works! We don't need to completely overhaul the WR corp but people need to be in their proper roles. Austin and Banks can provide some depth but they are both #4 WR max on a good team. Expect this unit to be addressed in free agency and [B]maybe in the middle of the draft[/B].[/quote]

While I agree w/your overall thinking, wr is almost as likely to be a 1st or 2nd round pick as any. I could see them taking a wr if the guy they like falls back. I think there are such an array of deficiencies that there are several positions that could be addressed in the top rounds.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Paintrain;774790]Armstrong was our deep threat. He averaged almost 20 yards per reception. Fred Davis had a higher per catch average than Moss. Moss was our possession receiver this year.[/quote]

I was thinking a R. Moss type of deep threat. Right now, I think teams focus on shutting down Santana.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=freddyg12;774794]While I agree w/your overall thinking, wr is almost as likely to be a 1st or 2nd round pick as any. I could see them taking a wr if the guy they like falls back. I think there are such an array of deficiencies that there are several positions that could be addressed in the top rounds.[/quote]

Depending on what we do at some key spots in FA (assuming it's before the draft) I would love to see us picking AJ Green out of Georgia at #10. I don't think we will but he's got Megatron-lite written all over him.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Ruhskins;774796]I was thinking a R. Moss type of deep threat. Right now, I think teams focus on shutting down Santana.[/quote]

Randy Moss could be characterized as freakish #1 talent who's more than just a deep threat. But I think what you're trying to say is that we grab a WR who can catch those "lob it up" passes, draw a double team almost all the time, and be physical.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

The wr position was the least of my concerns this year. We have a great veteran speedster, promising young deep threat and two great tight ends.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Moss had a heck of a year, he's gotta be a big priority to be re-signed. He's not a blazer anymore but his shiftiness and quickness works great in the slot.

Armstrong is a great deep threat, but not much else. Still, he's a valuable guy. Speed kills and he's got plenty of it. Who knows maybe he continues to develop into a better all around WR?

Austin and Kelly are the wildcards for next year.

I think we'll possibly add a free agent, but not a big name VJ type (I think he stays in SD). Maybe a James Jones or Steve Breaston type?

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Mattyk;774801]Moss had a heck of a year, he's gotta be a big priority to be re-signed. He's not a blazer anymore but his shiftiness and quickness works great in the slot.

Armstrong is a great deep threat, but not much else. Still, he's a valuable guy. Speed kills and he's got plenty of it. Who knows maybe he continues to develop into a better all around WR?

Austin and Kelly are the wildcards for next year.

I think we'll possibly add a free agent, but not a big name VJ type (I think he stays in SD). Maybe a James Jones or Steve Breaston type?[/quote]

Kyle still calls plays as if Andre Johnson is one of us. I find it doubtful they'll just stand pat with a "big guy who isn't a big playmaker".

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Mattyk;774801]Moss had a heck of a year, he's gotta be a big priority to be re-signed. He's not a blazer anymore but his shiftiness and quickness works great in the slot.

Armstrong is a great deep threat, but not much else. Still, he's a valuable guy. Speed kills and he's got plenty of it. Who knows maybe he continues to develop into a better all around WR?

Austin and Kelly are the wildcards for next year.

I think we'll possibly add a free agent, but not a big name VJ type (I think he stays in SD). Maybe a James Jones or Steve Breaston type?[/quote]
I'd love to see Jacoby Jones in B&G.. Great speed, experience in the system, can provide some depth at PR if Banks goes down.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Paintrain;774805]I'd love to see Jacoby Jones in B&G.. Great speed, experience in the system, can provide some depth at PR if Banks goes down.[/quote]
Don't forget his run blocking.

He should easily be an upgrade from Roydell at the very least.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Mattyk;774801]Moss had a heck of a year, he's gotta be a big priority to be re-signed. He's not a blazer anymore but his shiftiness and quickness works great in the slot.

Armstrong is a great deep threat, but not much else. Still, he's a valuable guy. Speed kills and he's got plenty of it. Who knows maybe he continues to develop into a better all around WR?

Austin and Kelly are the wildcards for next year.

I think we'll possibly add a free agent, but not a big name VJ type (I think he stays in SD). Maybe a James Jones or Steve Breaston type?[/quote]


I really like Steve Breaston, and he seems like the type of guy that would do really well under Shanhan. I think he has zero ego.

Also everyone keeps saying they think VJ stays with SD..... any real reason behind this? I mean dont both sides feel kind of burned by the whole thing and might not be in tune with each other when it comes contract time? I was all about NOT getting him when a trade was involved by as a FA im all for it

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=mlmpetert;774816]I really like Steve Breaston, and he seems like the type of guy that would do really well under Shanhan. I think he has zero ego.

Also everyone keeps saying they think VJ stays with SD..... any real reason behind this? I mean dont both sides feel kind of burned by the whole thing and might not be in tune with each other when it comes contract time? I was all about NOT getting him when a trade was involved by as a FA im all for it[/quote]

Norv recently came out and said he thought VJ is a much better player this year than last. Plus there have been rumblings that they will work something out with him. The door that appeared to be shut during his holdout is definitely open again.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

I don't know how to feel about this. The receiver position rarely wins championships so numbers wise I'd say that having three guys over 800 yards is actually pretty damn good. Combine that with the 300 yard performance of Fred Davis (which is much more then what I thought he would get after the first quarter of the year) along with the anticipated development of Terrance Austin and I'd say we're actually in pretty good shape.

I mean this isn't the first time Shanahan has brought in guys, practically off the street to catch passes (read: late round picks and UDFA's). Heck if anything the pattern is starting to mirror his ability to find running backs. The positions we need to focus on drafting are at Quarterback, offensive line, and defense. Receiver and running back are two units that given the Shanahan's history we can afford to be patient on.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;774832]I don't know how to feel about this. The receiver position rarely wins championships so numbers wise I'd say that having three guys over 800 yards is actually pretty damn good. Combine that with the 300 yard performance of Fred Davis (which is much more then what I thought he would get after the first quarter of the year) along with the anticipated development of Terrance Austin and I'd say we're actually in pretty good shape.

I mean this isn't the first time Shanahan has brought in guys, practically off the street to catch passes (read: late round picks and UDFA's). Heck if anything the pattern is starting to mirror his ability to find running backs. The positions we need to focus on drafting are at Quarterback, offensive line, and defense. Receiver and running back are two units that given the Shanahan's history we can afford to be patient on.[/quote]
Our numbers are a bit inflated because we threw it a whole damn lot. We threw it 705 times compared to ~500 other teams pitched it around.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

I've seen a couple mock drafts that show us taking a reciever at #1.
It wouldnt surprise me.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;774846]Our numbers are a bit inflated because we threw it a whole damn lot. We threw it 705 times compared to ~500 other teams pitched it around.[/quote]

No doubt we were near the top of the league in pass attempts but it was only 605 attempts not 705. Anyway the point is the receivers showed they were capable of doing it.

The only type of guy I'm really interested in adding is a big body that can lineup wide, like VJax, otherwise I'll stick with the current group of guys.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=SBprimetime;774779]I know a lot of people have been hating on our receivers this year, but let me drop some knowledge on you guys about our passing game:

Santana Moss was 4th in the NFL in catches. He had more catches, and about the same/more yards than: Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald, Marshall, and somebody who's very comparable to Moss, Wes Welker. If we can get Santana back at a reasonable price, we almost have to pull the trigger. He's great out of the slot.

Anthony Armstrong was 26th in the NFL in yards, and he had a 19.8 yards per catch, which is incredible. By my quick glance at the stats, that's more than all but two #2 WR's in the NFL (Jabar Gaffney-4 more yards, and Mario Manningham- which if not for us, probably wouldn't have had more yards).

As a team, we were also tied for 3rd in the NFL for most 40+ yd completions. Cooley also had another pretty good year.

There's no doubt we need to upgrade some of our depth, and infuse some youth/potential into our WR corps, but by no means is it as horrible as everyone has been saying. With another year in the offense, a draft pick or signing, and hopefully better play from the quarterback position, we should be pretty OK at that position.

P.S. It was mind-blowing that we ever had Joey Galloway and/or Roydell Williams even on our roster. That's probably where the general feeling of suckiness from our WR's comes from. We definitely need to upgrade our depth.[/quote]

I agree that we have a great supporting cast for our receiving corp, but we still need a true #1 WR and more stable QB/O-LINE play...

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=mlmpetert;774816]I really like Steve Breaston, and he seems like the type of guy that would do really well under Shanhan. I think he has zero ego.

Also everyone keeps saying they think VJ stays with SD..... any real reason behind this? I mean dont both sides feel kind of burned by the whole thing and might not be in tune with each other when it comes contract time? I was all about NOT getting him when a trade was involved by as a FA im all for it[/quote]

Yeah if Breaston can stay healthy and is available after this year I can see him as an option.

I think the VJ thing comes down to 1) they'll prob end up offering him what he wants 2) he's got one of the best QBs in the league and that QB wants him back 3) awesome area for a young athlete

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Paintrain;774797]Depending on what we do at some key spots in FA (assuming it's before the draft) I would love to see us picking AJ Green out of Georgia at #10. I don't think we will but he's got Megatron-lite written all over him.[/quote]

Haven't watched him play.. just watched his 2010 highlights, kid can ball

[YT]aABY_tEmewg[/YT]

kid's NEVER fumbled in college but on some plays he could protect the ball better, switch hands, etc.. guess he's pretty strong

and that Murray kid at QB, efficient, quick, he could end up being something pretty special too

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;774792]Pretty good stats but as Paintrain says, we need to look at scoring production. A stat like most 20+ yd/ most 40+ yd completions aren't that great of a metric.

Blame falls all around from the lack of a decent OL, inconsistencies at QB/RB so WR corps did an okay job all around.

Definitely think we should keep Moss, Armstrong, Austin, and Banks though so hopefully they become a solid WR corps for the future.[/quote]

If Kelly can return and be effective, he could be a red-zone option we don't presently have. Even the prospect of that should not rule out an upgrade.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

The team just needs to a better job scouting for late round gems and UDRFAs. I'm optimistic that'll happen with Shanahan in the mix.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=diehard;774884]The team just needs to a better job scouting for late round gems and UDRFAs. I'm optimistic that'll happen with Shanahan in the mix.[/quote]

They did a pretty good job of finding our 3rd down back in keiland williams and our first explosive return guy in years in Brandon banks. That's more than the last couple regimes had to show from UDFAs from a single draft class.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Yeah, I think WR is actually the one postition were we can let stay as is in the offseason.. Maybe add somebody like Breaston, but that's about it. Just gotta re-sign Moss.

We really need help on the Oline, Dline, and Linbacker positions if you ask me. Anything else would be 2nd.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Santana Moss had a lot of catches this year but his big gains were limited. The reason is that he was the only receiver that the Skins had who could reliably run the immediate short routes, catch the ball and then have the potential to do somethingwith it after the catch. However, that is not Moss's game.

If the Skins have S. Moss doing the same thing next year with similar production from everyone else on the roster, count on another year of no playoffs and a sub-.500 record.

Having said that, re-signing Santana Moss is [B]imperative[/B] for a reason that has ZERO to do with stats.

Santana Moss is one of the VERY few WRs in the NFL who is simultaneously:
[INDENT]1. Competent
2. Productive
3. Not a diva[/INDENT]
The Skins need to keep him here for the next couple of years to be the mentor/role model for whomever they bring in to be the WRs of the future for this team. Santana Moss has to show them what it means to be an NFL player.

Think back to Crash Davis and Nuke LaLoosh in [I]Bull Durham[/I]...

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[quote=Mattyk;774801]Moss had a heck of a year, he's gotta be a big priority to be re-signed. He's not a blazer anymore but his shiftiness and quickness works great in the slot.

[B]Armstrong is a great deep threat, but not much else. Still, he's a valuable guy. Speed kills and he's got plenty of it. Who knows maybe he continues to develop into a better all around WR?[/B]

Austin and Kelly are the wildcards for next year.

I think we'll possibly add a free agent, but not a big name VJ type (I think he stays in SD). Maybe a James Jones or Steve Breaston type?[/quote]

Good insight. That is why I think his ypc sounds better than it is: we need him to be making more 10 yard catches in addition to the deep balls, thus lowering that average. Hopefully he'll use the offseason to learn to be more than a one trick pony.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Mattyk;774801]Moss had a heck of a year, he's gotta be a big priority to be re-signed. He's not a blazer anymore but his shiftiness and quickness works great in the slot.

Armstrong is a great deep threat, but not much else. Still, he's a valuable guy. Speed kills and he's got plenty of it. Who knows maybe he continues to develop into a better all around WR?

Austin and Kelly are the wildcards for next year.

I think we'll possibly add a free agent, but not a big name VJ type (I think he stays in SD). Maybe a James Jones or Steve Breaston type?[/quote]

I would like one or two of the following Steve Breaston Sidney Rice, and then give someone like Sims-Walker or Aromashodu a try here.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Lotus;775256]Good insight. That is why I think his ypc sounds better than it is: we need him to be making more 10 yard catches in addition to the deep balls, thus lowering that average. Hopefully he'll use the offseason to learn to be more than a one trick pony.[/quote]

Actually, he had some short passes tossed to him this year, but he dropped them or he wasn't in position. If he actually made those catches instead of missing them, his YPC would be even higher.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=cdskins26;775257]I would like one or two of the following Steve Breaston Sidney Rice, and then give someone like Sims-Walker or Aromashodu a try here.[/quote]

Shoot, we did have Aromashodu here before you know

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;775270]Actually, he had some short passes tossed to him this year, but he dropped them or he wasn't in position. If he actually made those catches instead of missing them, his YPC would be even higher.[/quote]

You're assuming that he would've turned those catches into nearly 20 yard gains

if not, it would lower the YPC

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;775270][B]Actually, he had some short passes tossed to him this year, but he dropped them or he wasn't in position.[/B] If he actually made those catches instead of missing them, his YPC would be even higher.[/quote]

That was the point of Matty and I. He needs to become a more complete receiver.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

Would even looking at one of the older guys be an option so we can focus on other positions of need this year and resolve the "young WR" issue in 2012? If so who all will be available?

V.Jackson- might not get tagged should be FA
Ochocinco- might not be in Cinci next year
T.O.- might not be in Cinci either
TJ Houshmendzeda- thought he only signed a 1 yr deal

Anyone else?

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[quote=Alvin Walton;774854]I've seen a couple mock drafts that show us taking a reciever at #1.
It wouldnt surprise me.[/quote]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....


Lots of needs, WR's in the draft are often wasted picks. Much more important to get a QB, NT, or any one of 10 pressing needs.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

No way we pick a WR with our 10th pick in the draft. We have other pressing needs at O-Line, D-Line and LB positions. We have Kelly coming back and with Austin coming on I think we may be ok. We must try to bring back Moss and maybe get a WR late in the draft. WR can be found in the later rounds. We have to get better 3-4 personnel to bring our defense up to at least 15th total defense to be successful. Offense will be better in 2nd season but that may depend on who is the QB in 2011 at the start.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

^ Personally I have felt it's easier to get defensive players late in the draft but I keep hearing other say it's easier to get OL. I mention we need to atleast pick up a Center to replace Rabach and I'd like to see a RT who has the talent and knows what they are doing vs. seeing Heyer or hoping Brown doesn't get injured next yr. But again I'm being told you don't draft Centers and RT's so high in the draft.

One of my other concerns as a priority would be NT. Bryant did an admiral job and seemed to move well on his feet but radio announcers are saying he's a good back up. So perhaps a NT at #10.

I think it's obvious we need OL, NT, LB, FS, >not in any specific order although I'd still take OL or NT before the rest, and then you can pick you poison.... QB, WR, CB. There are also multiple people throwing out speculation that we will not retain about 5-6 people on defense so this year might be the yr we spend more there since we spent more on offense last yr. With the possibility of Carter, Rocky, Rogers, and a NT and FS needed you can see that might be where we start.

I think it still all depends on what we do in FA. The only problem there is if there is no CBA agreement then the draft would come first and the team would have to draft with the thought that we don't pick up anyone in FA, but if we do later then good for us. I like this thought process but most teams like to shop prior to the draft to see if they can fill any spots first.

Re: Our Current status at the WR position
 

[quote=Paintrain;774788]Those are pretty hollow stats unfortunately as between the three of them, they had 12 TD which is a good year from a #1 WR, not from a trio.

Moss would make a killer slot WR, Armstrong can be a #3 on a good team but is our #2 and Cooley is solid as a TE. If we have a true #1 and a QB that can make it work one thing is shown by these numbers, the system works! We don't need to completely overhaul the WR corp but people need to be in their proper roles. Austin and Banks can provide some depth but they are both #4 WR max on a good team. Expect this unit to be addressed in free agency and maybe in the middle of the draft.[/quote]

I totally agree with you. We really need to go after a true #1 receiver. Moss at the slot and Armstrong as a #3 and have we forgot about Malcom Kelly!!!!! I think we need to address #1 in free agency