Heath Ramsey is a Moron, I mean Patrick
 

Just like last season, he'll break your heart with a bonehead decision.

I'd rather not talk about Ramsey right now if you don't mind...he's broken my fragile heart once again.

***can't let them see me cry, must stop typing***

That was a retarded play. No other way to describe it. I'm not gonna crucify him for it, but you cant make that desicon.

Stupid, stupid, stupid throw...

Even dumber playcall.

They've got 2 timeouts with just under 2 minutes on 1st and 10 at the Eagles 27, down by 3.

Why in the hell do you tell Ramsey to drop back and heave a pass to the endzone?

Ramsey's throw was absolutely horrible, but Gibbs' playcalling in this game was terrible.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Stupid, stupid, stupid throw...

Even dumber playcall.

They've got 2 timeouts with just under 2 minutes on 1st and 10 at the Eagles 27, down by 3.

Why in the hell do you tell Ramsey to drop back and heave a pass to the endzone?

Ramsey's throw was absolutely horrible, but Gibbs' playcalling in this game was terrible.[/QUOTE]

I had thought he was going to pump fake deep and throw underneath.

[QUOTE=Brute44]Just like last season, he'll break your heart with a bonehead decision.[/QUOTE]
Growing pains.

If PR wasn't back there, would we have been that close. I don't think so. Two sides of the fence, and I have a feeling you'd be complaining just as loudly no matter the outcome.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Stupid, stupid, stupid throw...

Even dumber playcall.

They've got 2 timeouts with just under 2 minutes on 1st and 10 at the Eagles 27, down by 3.

Why in the hell do you tell Ramsey to drop back and heave a pass to the endzone?

Ramsey's throw was absolutely horrible, but Gibbs' playcalling in this game was terrible.[/QUOTE]

couldn't agree more. 1:54 left on the clock we're in good position we've got a first down, we can run some clock as to not give dnabb and t.o. any time to work with.... gibbs playcalling all game has been more conservative than pat robertson and then he makes that playcall.... what the hell?

Did anyone hear the press conference? Gibbs called the play expecting a blitz. It didn't come, so Ramsey had to check out of that throw. He went for it. Ouch.

The philly D is good. They make you look bad, they hide their coverages and their blitzes as well as anyone in the league. They clearly had Gibbs off-balance a number of times in the game. But for all that, if we don't screw OURSELVES with penalties and ints, we win.

PR is learning. Let's see how he plays out the last three games. Winning out, and espcially in Dallas, will ease my pain.

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Did anyone hear the press conference? Gibbs called the play expecting a blitz. It didn't come, so Ramsey had to check out of that throw. He went for it. Ouch.

The philly D is good. They make you look bad, they hide their coverages and their blitzes as well as anyone in the league. They clearly had Gibbs off-balance a number of times in the game. But for all that, if we don't screw OURSELVES with penalties and ints, we win.

PR is learning. Let's see how he plays out the last three games. Winning out, and espcially in Dallas, will ease my pain.[/QUOTE]

yeah I had a feeling that was supposed to be just a check off, not an actual throw

I'm not particularly disappointed by the loss - few of us expected us to win in the first place. I'm glad we fought our tails off. The most amazing thing about this season has been the lack of dissent and the lack of negative emotions among the players, despite our poor record - credit to Gibbs - probably the best thing Gibbs has managed all year with this team.

Criticize Ramsey all you want, but the fact remains that this loss was all on the offensive coaching staff. Several factors influenced the outcome today - 1. Ramsey's INT, but also,
2. Cooley's drop in the endzone (beautiful pass by PR),
3. the BS interference on Springs,
4. horrible offensive play calling.
5. Terrible O-line play against a D with all starting D linemen out (save an injured Kearse) - what's bugel been teaching these guys?
6. poor clock management.
7. Still very suspect kickoff and punt coverage. The hell is wrong with Hall?

I wasn't around for Gibbs I, but Gibbs II has been a bitter disappointment. Martyball seems more interesting by comparison.

Gibbs has a reputation for being a quick learner and everyone hails his ability to make adjustments and adapt to situations - I hope he makes some drastic alterations this offseason.

1. Start by demoting Don Breaux from Off. coordinator to RB coach or offensive consultant, or deputy assistant head coach. He took too long to get the plays in from the booth upstairs, and he is conservative as hell. Gibbs is conservative enough - we don't need two conservatives responsible for calling the plays.

2. Release Raymer and Trade Samuels for a draft pick, or sign other O-linemen in free agency. Hopefully, Jansen's return shores up the right side of the line, and we won't need to block with an 8 players anymore.

3. Send LC and Jacobs on deep routes more often, rather than waiting to be down 10 points before sending our WRs deep.

4. Trade Gardener and release Sellers to send a message.

5. I love Smoot as a redskin, but he's gotta work on his tacking - he's the single worst tackler in the league.

Patrick Ramsey is auditioning for the job next year, and I really think that it is likely that Joe Gibbs will not want to put the success of his return to coaching in the hands of Ramsey.

I like Ramsey, I just don't want him to quarterback the Redskins. It's nothing personal. I want someone back there who can consistently make plays, create magic, spark his teammates, and make the right choices at critical moments. I don't have faith that Ramsey is going to do those things often enough, the opinion of his legion of passionate fans notwithstanding.

There are too many people who work too hard on this team, too many coaches who are doing such a great job in turning this once proud franchise around, to have their efforts be jeopardized by one player who is developmentally too far behind the rest of the team. Pat is tough, he's a good guy, but I am not sure he is a born quarterback. There is no shame in that.

Does anyone really think that the playcalling is conservative for any reason other than giving too big a rope to Pat results in problems at this stage in his development?

Ramsey's got three more games that he will probably be given to start. I hope he can get it together and really shine. He makes some throws sometimes that are impressive like the one to Cooley on the second touchdown drive. My mind is still open on Pat. But we will need serious options that we give absolutely equal and fair opportunity to for next season. Tim Hasselbeck should be one. Maybe an inexpensive free agent who is a potential gem to be another.

This team needs big free agent signings this offseason like Brunell needs 43 million dollars for his play this year- not at all. We've got a fairly talented squad. WE NEED CONTI-FUCKING-NUITY.

Amen, Bleedburgundy!

[QUOTE]I wasn't around for Gibbs I, but Gibbs II has been a bitter disappointment. Martyball seems more interesting by comparison.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs I
-had huge adjustment the first year.
-We won the show once every four years.
-The other years we had to scrap every game to make the playoffs (some years we didn't)
- Threw a million and one hitches
- Most games the 4th quarter was hugley stress full because Pettibone (god love him)loved the prevent defense
-Gibbs took big chances that back fired sometimes.
-Had for the most part (Except for Theisman and 1 year from Rypien) Average at best QB play.
-never had a 1400 yard back (SD was the first I think)

So far in Gibbs II
-Had a huge adjustment the first year
-Created the best D I can remember in DC (yes better than all the SB years..well mebbie the one Wilber Marshall was on was close)
-Forged a team; a real team that doesn't quit or cry or lay down like a doormat. I bet you folks HATE to play our D...you know you are going to get slobberknocked from play one till the last whistle.

Bottom line- Gibbs football was like today (minus the penalties)

That's what I remember- and that is why I think we are so, so close to breaking thru the wall

Cheers :)

hurrykaine you are insane. read a book, watch the nfl channel and learn about football. :coach:

I am really sick and tired of everyone getting down on Ramsey. And enough of the Tim Hasselbeck talk, hello anyone remember the 0.00 QB rating against the Cowboys last year? This team more than anything else needs continuity...as in using the SAME QB and allowing the WRs and the QB to develop some chemistry. There is plenty of blame to go around for the loss, especially with all of the frigging penalties. It is time for the 'old' Joe Gibbs to show up and cut someone.....someone like Sellers, those penalties were completely inexcusable, and as I recall I believe he had a penalty last week too.

Maybe we should go out and trade a draft pick so we can sign a BIG-name QB. Oh wait, we did that.

$42 million --- down the crapper

high 2nd round pick (we traded our 2nd rounder to get Cooley who we would have been able to get with our 3rd rounder, which was traded for Brunell)---- down the crapper

Ramsey is our man at QB.

Stupid throw, otherwise played well.

I agree with Ramseyfan... He made a few dumb decisions on the field, as young QBs will often do, and they did have a bearing on the outcome of the game. This time next year, I would be willing to bet that he won't make those same mistakes and I certainly hope that Gibbs hangs on to him and gives him a chance to develop. He has the physical attributes and the guts to be our QB but you can't tap his head with a magic wand and give him the game sense that comes with experience!

#36 Sean Taylor. Name a better defensive draft choice.

If we sign a big name QB, I'm going to be really pissed off. I'm not saying Patrick Ramsey has to start for this team, even though I think he will, but we dont need to go break the bank for Drew Brees. Dont people realize how long the great QB's have been in there systems?? Manning sucked as a Colt, Brees really sucked in SD, even a guy like Culpepper wasent all that good for a few years. Am I saying Ramsey is going to turn into one of those guys, no. Am I saying he should be handed the starting job next season, no. But we dont need to go nuts for some jamoke to come in here and have to learn the system.... again.

Ramsey will start in 2k5 if he continues to play like he has the last 2 games. Bringing in another QB to learn Gibbs complex system is not smart unless its Michael Jordan or something. I'd take Ramsey over any starting QB in the NFL right now cept maybe Vick. Imagine Vick w/ Portis and Coles... Ramsey is a good QB now and think of all the bs he's gone thru. Spurrier, Wurfell, Matthews, Brunell etc. Kid is a playa. Last year he got beat up real bad and he didn't quit. He's got an arm, he like guns and jesus and he's a smart 3rd year player. Let's see what he can do. Our money is better in other positions than signing some QB. Shit get Jeff George for basement prices if ya wanna find someone else! Trust in Gibbs and he will steer us to victory. Look at his players. We're 4-9 and they play as hard as any team in the league consistantly and throughout EVERY game. We've lost only 2 games by more than a TD. That's 7 games by less than a TD! In Gibbs I trust and the Redskins players for all they have given this year. Don't forget we got Arrington, Bowen, Jansen, Daniels out. No excuses, but we're not fielding pushover quitters like alot of other 4-9 teams.
GO SKINS!

[QUOTE=Luxorreb] He's got an arm, he like guns and jesus and he's a smart 3rd year player. Let's see what he can do. [/QUOTE] I love Ramsey to and thik that this is just the beggining with him, but what the heck does liking guns and jesus have to do with it. Believing is god is fine with me, no complaints really there. But the gun thing come on???

Comparing Patrick Ramsey to Heath Shuler is a total farce. Ramsey has more brains in his big toe than what Shuler had in his whole body and where is Shuler now? He didn't even have a career long enough to get a couple of decent endorsement contracts. At least Brad Johnson hooked up with McDonalds before he trotted off to Tampa Bay. Even though I think he made some boenhead plays last night, I'm still certain that PR is the guy for us now and next year as long as he stays healthy. He's still learning the position and he's only going to get better.

Patrick made a dumb play. However I thought he had a great game up until that point. He will learn, lets not beat him up about it. I remember a few years ago when D. McNabb was making dumb throws every game. Remember Brett Favre made a dumb throw in last year's playoff game against the eagles. Not saying Pat is going to be either one of those guys, but give the guy time to learn.

[QUOTE=CRT3]I love Ramsey to and thik that this is just the beggining with him, but what the heck does liking guns and jesus have to do with it. Believing is god is fine with me, no complaints really there. But the gun thing come on???[/QUOTE]

pretty sure that was just a stab at humor..

[QUOTE=redsk1]Patrick made a dumb play. However I thought he had a great game up until that point. He will learn, lets not beat him up about it. I remember a few years ago when D. McNabb was making dumb throws every game. Remember Brett Favre made a dumb throw in last year's playoff game against the eagles. Not saying Pat is going to be either one of those guys, but give the guy time to learn.[/QUOTE]

sigh, you're right but that excuse OFFICIALLY ENDS TODAY. DEC.12TH 2004. let it burn into his memory, the Division game where this 'bad' team had a chance to salvage the season, the game where our defense finally went to the hospital fighting for us, that was his FINAL LESSON.

Ramsey is NOT A ROOKIE

So one bad throw and everyone is off the Ramsey bandwagon, not that there were a lot of people on it to start with.

Don't let one mistake tarnish the entire game, or his considerable progress he's made this year in learning a new system and new philosophy.

There isn't a doubt in my mind Ramsey is a QB we can build a team around. Enough with the quick fixes, enough with looking at free agents every year. We've got a young QB with a strong arm right here under our noses. Why can't we have enough patience to let him develop?

Seems like everyone has a gameplan for this offseason and it always involves trading this guy, trading that guy, signing this free agent, etc. Haven't we tried that aproach the past few years with no success? How about we stick with our core group of guys and build around them? Ramsey is one of those core guys in my opinion.

Relating him to Shuler is just ridiculous.

Mattyk72: AMEN BROTHER AMEN! All I can say is thank God people like Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning didn't have GMs with similar attitudes or they'd be journeyman NFL QBs always looking for home. I think Ramsey deserves a shot to prove himself and I think he's been performing and learning the system well. Beats the hell out of going 1 for 8 in almost a full half of football.

I would like to see Ramsey succeed, but there are a lot of people on this board who are Ramsey fanatics. No matter what he does, its always someone else who is really responsible for the mistakes. Some people are determined to wish for him to be given the keys to the team no matter what, and will not think of the possilbility of anyone else at the helm. And there is all kinds of anger and vituperations and distortions if anyone suggests that others be given a fair chance to compete. If any other quarterback were in there making the same plays, then the same people who passionately defend him would be issuing severe criticism for the most part. Personally, I am not a Ramsey "fundamentalist."

Well it doesn't matter because the only opinion that really counts is that of the coaches and also the players.

Ramsey is making progress, and I saw a few good plays from him last night. He has been playing against top defenses, in the Eagles and Steelers, so he'll have an easier time of it this Saturday and hopefully he'll put in a game like he did against the Giants. And we can relax now that we have been eliminated from the playoffs.

PR continues to make mistakes at the worst possible time. All QBs make mistakes but McNabb and Tom Brady dont seem to make them at the most crucial moments of the game. I dont know if PR can resolve this problem (I hope he can) but if he cant the skins will be back at square one with QB.

He's had less than 20 career starts, let's give the kid a little more time.

Seriously. I dont think anyone is defending that pass. Weather that was the right playcall or not, it was a horrible desicon. But mingya, he played a pretty decent game. Everyone makes mistakes like that, ever watch Brett Favre, he does that type of crap all the time.

I just think I'm seeing a chemistry developing on offense, and I dont want to mess that up. Even with a couple poor decisions on the part of Ramsey.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]He's had less than 20 career starts, let's give the kid a little more time.[/QUOTE]

I don't know but I think thats more than enough time to be able to read a double team on a receiver in the endzone or be able to throw underneath to a WIDE open Portis or a WIDE open MCcants inside the 20. I think that the Skins were inside the 50 like 4 times late in the game and couldn't even get 3 points. The remarks I made about Shuler were me just blowing off some steam late last evening but I feel that the same underlying flaws that plagued Shuler can be found in Ramsey. The inability to read the blitz, the erratic inconsistency, the selection of the receiver that ran the 5 yard route instead of the one who ran the 15 yard one on 3rd and 10. One thing that I will never say Shuler had that Ramsey shows, is toughness. I think Ramsey has to be the toughest guy to EVER play QB for the Skins. I'm sick of people saying, he just needs more time. How long is it gonna take for Ramsey to understand the basic fundamentals of football at crucial moments? It's not like it was 10 or 15 years ago. You draft a rookie QB to play immediately or possibly the next season, not to sit on the bench for 5 years to learn how to read a cover 2 defense. Joe Gibbs only has 4 years left, HOPEFULLY. I don't know if Ramsey is gonna be able to turn it around and take this team to the promise land in that time. If he does, and I hope he does than I'll be the first to say I was wrong.

He made a bad throw, veteran QB's make the same stupid mistakes. Brett Favre anyone? Sometimes he throws INT's that you would think only rookies would throw.

He makes one poor decision and all of a sudden he's a bum and we need to look for a new QB next year? Funny how last week he was a hero, now it's back to the goat.

I just don't understand why some people are so unwilling to commit to a young QB like Ramsey. All young QB's take their share of bumps and bruises, all QB's make mistakes. I don't think we've seen enough to make a final judgement on his abilities.

All I'm asking is to give him 2005 as the starter, and at this time next year we'll have an idea as to what the future looks like with Patrick Ramsey as the starter. At that point he'll be at the 30 start mark in his career, I think that's a fair amount of starts for a young QB to decide if he's your franchise QB or just another name.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]He's had less than 20 career starts, let's give the kid a little more time.[/QUOTE]

How many starts should he be allowed before he's no longer given the benefit of being "a young quarterback learning"?

I mean, I hear what you're saying that he's still raw and it's really only his 4th start under this new offense. I'm just wondering is there's a certain number of games that you would use to determine if he's the right choice at QB....which I think he is

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]All I'm asking is to give him 2005 as the starter, and at this time next year we'll have an idea as to what the future looks like with Patrick Ramsey as the starter. At that point he'll be at the 30 start mark in his career, I think that's a fair amount of starts for a young QB to decide if he's your franchise QB or just another name.[/QUOTE]

Well there you go, thanks for answering my question to you while I typed it, Mattstradamus :D

[QUOTE=smootsmack]How many starts should he be allowed before he's no longer given the benefit of being "a young quarterback learning"?

I mean, I hear what you're saying that he's still raw and it's really only his 4th start under this new offense. I'm just wondering is there's a certain number of games that you would use to determine if he's the right choice at QB....which I think he is[/QUOTE]

the rest of this season and thats it. a full offseason with him no.1, if he's still throwing dumb INTs by the the third game next season and costing us games, give hasslebeck second halves and start calling around.

I dont think its the rest of this season. I think he should get the opprotunity to start next season. I think he can make stupid mistakes this year, but if he has this offseason to learn this system, and still makes the same mistakes next season, then its time to really start questioning him.

I understand that he shouldn't be making throws like he did last night, but come on!! They say for most QB's it takes about 3 years to fully develope. Lets see, now I am no math major, but last I checked 3seasons at 16 games a season is much more than the 20 starts Ramsey has had. Also the QB's that are given the full 48 games to start are not battleing learning a new offense every other year!! So I think those of us who wants to get a new QB in the off season need to be reallistic!!

Look at Brees!! Do you really beleive that Gates, McCardell(sp), and Parker are the reasons why he has stepped it up this year? Or would you belive that him playing 3 seasons under the same offense might have something to do with it??? Just a thought!!

:twocents:

i'm not trying to compare ramsey to brett favre but if you think about it for a second brett throws alot of ints and yet the packers are a pretty successfull team. they take shots down the field and their defense is not nearly as good as the skins. ramsey does make some bad decisions(just like brett) but we have a great defense to get us the ball back. i wouldnt mind a few pick offs if we were taking shot down the field also because with those picks would come some defensive pass interferrence calls as well as some huge gains for the skins offense. i can understand having a real conservative offense if we had a piss pore defense but thats not the case we have a great d. that int at the end of the game is just as much gibbs' fault as it is ramsey's, true ramsey needs to do a better job of locating the dbs but gibbs needs to open up the playbook and take some shots down field. the skins would win some and lose some but they have the d to make up for the ones they lose.