State of the Union Speech
 

Don't know if you all caught this, but I was watching bits of it. To me it's a bit sad that shooting is what was needed to bring these politicians off each others throats and proceed respectfully, but apparently it is.

Really wasn't too much substance there, which keeps in line with some of the State of the Union speeches Bush gave. Also it was obvious he focused on bipartisan issues that everyone would support in principal. Let's see if they can walk the walk.

Finally I am disappointed gun control wasn't brought up. Although it is sad Gifford's shooting is what has spurred more civility between parties, I don't know why the President didn't push gun control. Unfortunately in a few weeks this story will be forgotten and getting real change will be difficult. To me it really doesn't make sense.

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Additionally I am interesting in seeing the White House's budget plan. I don't know how a spending freeze, investment in education, etc. is all going to work out on the books.

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He supposedly decided that gun control should be a stand alone topic, and he will be addressing it in a separate speech shortly. I heard it from CNN, MSNBC, or Fox. Honestly, don't remember right now

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He is a good speaker, but in the end it is just showboating and making political points (as was most of Bush's State of the Union addresses). What counts is whether or not he, the Republicans, and Democrats, can all work together to get it right. I am very interested in seeing the proposal he mentioned on consolidating and re-organizing government. I would guess that will get a lot bipartisan hate.

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You could sense the collective heart beat of Congress skyrocketed when he mentioned reorganizing government. They start thinking about all the people who they have hooked up, their team, their future positions, etc. Effing politicians.

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Same recycled material, pointless speech.

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Yea, unfortunately there's never much substance. I'm just really disappointed in our government in general. Everyone has an agenda an virtually all members vote along their party lines. How about our leaders standing up for their own opinions vs always siding with their own party? How about a little out of the box thinking?

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[quote=redsk1;780570]Yea, unfortunately there's never much substance. I'm just really disappointed in our government in general. Everyone has an agenda an virtually all members vote along their party lines. How about our leaders standing up for their own opinions vs always siding with their own party? How about a little out of the box thinking?[/quote]

Money talks, bullshit walks. How about public financing of elections?


Main Street: 0
Special Interest: 1,000,000

Re: State of the Union Speech
 

I wasnt able to watch, Mean Girls 2 was on so excellent cable programming won. It definitely doesnt stack up to the original and the chicks wernt nearly as hot and wouldnt be worth watching again in my opinion.

I heard a lot about the idea of repubs and dems sitting next to each other, did that end up happening? At first i thought that it was a great idea and might promote bipartisanship. Then i heard part of the reason they sit apart is because then both parties can make absolutely clear what they agree with and not (by applauding and standing up and stuff), which allows viewers to decide which of the major parties they side with most. Im kind of against just having 2 parties so i still think the idea of sitting all jumbled up is better; better to vote for the individual that you side with rather then party that is made up of more popular ideas while ignoring less sellable stuff, in my mind.

I dont want to hijack or anything and i would like to see what Obama has to say about gun control but at this point i dont think there is anything that can be done right now. This is a great read on why we are where we are, a quick history of Glock, and why things dont seem like theyre gonna change anytime soon:

[url=http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212052185280.htm]Glock: America's Gun - BusinessWeek[/url]

Re: State of the Union Speech
 

[quote=mlmpetert;780585]I wasnt able to watch, Mean Girls 2 was on so excellent cable programming won. It definitely doesnt stack up to the original and the chicks wernt nearly as hot and wouldnt be worth watching again in my opinion.

I heard a lot about the idea of repubs and dems sitting next to each other, did that end up happening? At first i thought that it was a great idea and might promote bipartisanship. Then i heard part of the reason they sit apart is because then both parties can make absolutely clear what they agree with and not (by applauding and standing up and stuff), which allows viewers to decide which of the major parties they side with most. Im kind of against just having 2 parties so i still think the idea of sitting all jumbled up is better; better to vote for the individual that you side with rather then party that is made up of more popular ideas while ignoring less sellable stuff, in my mind.

I dont want to hijack or anything and i would like to see what Obama has to say about gun control but at this point i dont think there is anything that can be done right now. This is a great read on why we are where we are, a quick history of Glock, and why things dont seem like theyre gonna change anytime soon:

[URL="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212052185280.htm"]Glock: America's Gun - BusinessWeek[/URL][/quote]

America's Gun?
Soo...that means all the Cowboys are packin'......America's gun?

Re: State of the Union Speech
 

[quote=Hog1;780586]America's Gun?
Soo...that means all the Cowboys are packin'......America's gun?[/quote]

American's Gun in how it was instrumental in changing our laws.

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I saw some but switched to Tosh.o which was on about the same level. For the people who think gun control will actually work please explain this. We have had a war on drugs for how many years and if I wanted drugs I could find them anytime and about anywhere. With that in mind how would making guns illegal or certain guns illegal stop anything?

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Notice that some of the AZ rampage victims made it there. And sat up in the box with the First Lady. Really wouldn't be doing that, after all that happened. And lives ruined and all of that, maybe in a year. But nearly three weeks, no! But then again, you don't say no to the President of the USA!

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First, look at it this way: Mexico has a huge drug and violence problem, which is internal. However they can't buy any guns in Mexico because guns are almost not available. They get almost all their guns from the US because they are ridiculously easy to buy here.

If we have very strict guns laws, especially on certain types of weapons,ammo, etc., then where are people(domestic and international) going to get their guns to commit crimes? In my opinion, criminals with weapons that cannot kill at the rate of certain guns leads to a safer society(I know this is hugely debatable for some people).

This would be very difficult because the gun lobby has a huge stranglehold on Congress. What I really do not like is the same people who say the Founding Father's were all Christian and that our government was created with Cristian foundations/values(interpret the context of our Constitution's creation very literally and apply it in that fashion) are the same folks who ignore the 2nd Amendment was created when weapons were muskets and swords; automatic weapons and rounds of ammo were not even conceivable. If you want to interpret literally, let's be consistent here.

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I really don't see a reason for automatic weapons to be on the streets. You should have to jump through hoops to buy a gun, you shouldn't be able to waltz into your local Wal-Mart or go to a gun show and walk away fully loaded - often without even showing an ID.

This country sure loves it's guns. No big surprise we're such a violent society as well.

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[quote=Mattyk;780699]I really don't see a reason for [B]automatic weapons to be on the streets.[/B] You should have to jump through hoops to buy a gun, you shouldn't be able to waltz into your local Wal-Mart or go to a gun show and walk away fully loaded - often without even showing an ID.

[B]This country sure loves it's guns. No big surprise we're such a violent society as well.[/B][/quote]

Several points
Auto weapons are not now and to my knowledge ever been legal to own except with the appropriate Federal Licensure.
The ownership of guns do not cause someone to be violent.
The Fed could get more cooperation from John Q gunowner if:
1) They're proposed programs would not be largely ineffectual....EX "war on drugs" and just window dressing for the occasional public outcry.
2) IF the justice system worked.
Lets face it the Fed does not have a good track record with programs...Hell, they can't [B]seem[/B] how to get the borders closed

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[quote=Hog1;780703]Several points
Auto weapons are not now and to my knowledge ever been legal to own except with the appropriate Federal Licensure.
The ownership of guns do not cause someone to be violent.
The Fed could get more cooperation from John Q gunowner if:
1) They're proposed programs would not be largely ineffectual....EX "war on drugs" and just window dressing for the occasional public outcry.
2) IF the justice system worked.
Lets face it the Fed does not have a good track record with programs...Hell, they can't [B]seem[/B] how to get the borders closed[/quote]

Do you at least agree it's way too easy for someone to buy a gun?

I never said guns cause violence, but a violent society where it's hella easy to buy guns = problems

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[quote=Mattyk;780709][B]Do you at least agree it's way too easy for someone to buy a gun?[/B]

I never said guns cause violence, but a violent society where it's hella easy to buy guns = problems[/quote]
Under the circumstances.....much as it pains me......yes, cause I love the gun shows.
BUT, mostly you only punish law abiding types with these measures. Thugs and felons will always find a way until a reason is presented that overrides that desire to do so.....
NOTE: To my knowledge you cannot legally buy any gun in any state without a paper trail and/or background check....gun show or no.
**Fix the violence....the gun did not do it.

Re: State of the Union Speech
 

[quote=Hog1;780712]Under the circumstances.....much as it pains me......yes, cause I love the gun shows.
BUT, mostly you only punish law abiding types with these measures. Thugs and felons will always find a way until a reason is presented that overrides that desire to do so.....
NOTE: To my knowledge you cannot legally buy any gun in any state without a paper trail and/or background check....gun show or no.
**Fix the violence....the gun did not do it.[/quote]

I think you can in VA. I agree we could make purchasing a gun tougher but I agree not sure if that will help. In both this case and in the VT case the person did not just rush out and buy a gun. It was thought out and they planned their attack. I just don't think gun laws would have stopped this type of act. Hell if anything you could point to the two college's that ignored these two known nut jobs and did nothing. Thats a different debate.

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Guns are an accessory to the violence though. I don't agree with absolving guns and saying they are no factor. In the world of violence, guns are absolutely an issue.

Sure people will always find a way to get their hands on them. But that doesn't mean we should toss up our hands and say oh well we can't have more strict measures in place regarding control and safety. I mean that's like saying people are always going to get in to car accidents, so let's not bother with a seatbelt law, or an insurance requirement.

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[quote=Mattyk;780714]Guns are an accessory to the violence though. I don't agree with absolving guns and saying they are no factor. In the world of violence, guns are absolutely an issue.

Sure people will always find a way to get their hands on them. But [B]that doesn't mean we should toss up our hands and say oh well we can't have more strict measures in place regarding control and safety[/B]. I mean that's like saying people are always going to get in to car accidents, so let's not bother with a seatbelt law, or an insurance requirement.[/quote]

And I did not advocate that here....nor would I. The problem to date has been the ridiculous Federal mandates such as the crux of the original "assault weapons ban"...pure window dressing for an ignorant public accomplishing nothing more than driving up the cost of "ban weapons" with some fortunes being made as a result. I made a few bucks on that Jackassery myself.
BUT the Fed is rather famous for stupid plans...more of the same and I am confident the NRA will respond similarly.
AND, the guns STILL are not the root problem. Until we want to take off the blinders and TRULY attack some social issues where they live, your just punishing millions of legit.....harmless....legal citizens to stop a few.

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[quote=firstdown;780713]I think you can in VA. I agree we could make purchasing a gun tougher but I agree not sure if that will help. In both this case and in the VT case the person did not just rush out and buy a gun. It was thought out and they planned their attack. I just don't think gun laws would have stopped this type of act. Hell if anything you could point to the two college's that ignored these two known nut jobs and did nothing. Thats a different debate.[/quote]
I stand corrected.
I thought everywhere was at least tough as Florida. You can purchase a used "long gun" from an individual, but some type of paper must be filed. I think that one gets violated on a regular basis. Any new long gun gets some dealer paper filed and there is naturally a background check/waiting period for handgun purchase unless you have a carry permit in which case the background check has already been done.

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[quote=firstdown;780713]I think you can in VA. I agree we could make purchasing a gun tougher but I agree not sure if that will help. In both this case and in the VT case the person did not just rush out and buy a gun. It was thought out and they planned their attack. I just don't think gun laws would have stopped this type of act. Hell if anything you could point to the two college's that ignored these two known nut jobs and did nothing. Thats a different debate.[/quote]

Well in VA at a gun show you CAN buy a gun without a background check.. What they do is sell the weapon in peices so you arent buying a whole gun at once.. You buy once piece from one table.. and another piece from another table. Since you arent being sold a whole weapon by either vendor there isnt a requirement on either vendor to do a background check.

Now with all that said I agree with the 2nd amendment and my right to bear arms. I also agree that the only people that would be effected by any kind of prohibition of guns or banning would be the law abiding citizen that follows the law because it is the law. The criminal who doesnt give a rip about the law in the first place would still be armed to the teeth... double edge sword. Damned if you do and Damned if you dont. With that being the case I err on the side of Dont because at least that way the common criminal isnt the only one able to be armed.

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I thought the way they get around the background check is the individuals selling them to another individual. If there was a lic gun dealer at the show they had to do a back ground check. Its funny that the person who puts on these gun shows is a big liberal and very active in the Democrat party.

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[quote=firstdown;781095]i thought the way they [b]get around the background check is the individuals selling them to another individual[/b]. If there was a lic gun [b]dealer at the show they had to do a back ground check[/b]. Its funny that the person who puts on these gun shows is a big liberal and very active in the democrat party.[/quote]

yo'.....

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[quote=Hog1;781134]yo'.....[/quote]

What are you trying to say?

Re: State of the Union Speech
 

your explanation is correct.....yo

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There is also no requirement for a background check when the weapon is sold in pieces because its not an operable weapon.