Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/03/28/11/Redskins-Reconstruction-Wide-Receiver/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=492116&feedID=6458]Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receiver[/url]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

James Jones would be a nice addition.

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I'm so tired of the Skins picking skill positions 1st roung, although thats probably when they need to be taken.

Again I'd rather the team fixed the trenches prior to trying to fix everything everywhere. Lets fix the OL and DL. Get a late round tall WR to work with along with Kelly( if he stays healthy) and possibly pick up a future QB.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=Mattyk;790911]James Jones would be a nice addition.[/quote]

So would Jacoby Jones.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=SBXVII;790916]I'm so tired of the Skins picking skill positions 1st roung, although thats probably when they need to be taken.

Again I'd rather the team fixed the trenches prior to trying to fix everything everywhere. Lets fix the OL and DL. Get a late round tall WR to work with along with Kelly( if he stays healthy) and possibly pick up a future QB.[/quote]

I agree with you - our O-line/D-line sucks. But the danger about only concentrating on the lines is that WR's and QB's take up to 3 years to develop. So if you drafted/created your entire O-line before looking at QB/WR - the O-line would wait and age while the QB/WR developed, and only have 3-4 years before the O-line needed fixing again.

Obviously you need to improve on as many areas as you can, continuously via FA and draft. It would just be nice to do it the Green Bay way -- ie. draft young skill players early (like Aaron Rodgers), and keep them developing while fixing the rest of the team.. And then bring him out after 3-4 years and -- win the Super Bowl.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=ethat001;791040]I agree with you - our O-line/D-line sucks. But the danger about only concentrating on the lines is that WR's and QB's take up to 3 years to develop. So if you drafted/created your entire O-line before looking at QB/WR - the O-line would wait and age while the QB/WR developed, and only have 3-4 years before the O-line needed fixing again.

Obviously you need to improve on as many areas as you can, continuously via FA and draft. It would just be nice to do it the Green Bay way -- ie. draft young skill players early (like Aaron Rodgers), and keep them developing while fixing the rest of the team.. And then bring him out after 3-4 years and -- win the Super Bowl.[/quote]

This post makes too much sense for some
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTm9oFWJNg[/ame]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

I wouldn't mind James jones but to me he's just a number 2 at best, maybe we can get Malcolm floyd from SD or MSW from Jax

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[quote=Mattyk;790911]James Jones would be a nice addition.[/quote]

Rich spoke about the 24 yr old Sidney Rice of the Minnesota Vikings.....your thoughts on Sidney Rice.....

Last season cut short as a result of injury.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/sidneyrice/profile?id=RIC161100]Sidney Rice, WR for the Minnesota Vikings at NFL.com[/url]

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

This reconstruction segment is hilarious. According to them the QB is the foundation of the team. The offensive and defensive line is the foundations IMO. As for widerecievers I think we should draft a kid with size resign moss and also pick someone like Steve Smith. Someone that moves the chains

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I've said this in a different thread, but IMO if Jones is on the Board we need to pick him. Despite the broken foot, I think he'll end up being the more complete WR (similar to Roddy White) as opposed to Green.

As for FA WR's (if we have a FA) Jones from the Texans is an underrated young talent. Size 6'3, good hands and can jet after the catch.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;791715]This reconstruction segment is hilarious. According to them the QB is the foundation of the team. The offensive and defensive line is the foundations IMO. As for widerecievers I think we should draft a kid with size resign moss and also pick someone like Steve Smith. Someone that moves the chains[/quote]

How can you say thats hilarious? QB being the foundation of a team is a valid hypothesis. The teams that are competing year in and year out are drafting guys to play around their QB, not the other way around. The QB is usually at the root of every decision a team makes. Even Jeff Saturday, a Center mind you, was talking about how Peyton Manning was the foundation of the Colts organization on Total Access a few days ago.

Just as ethat was saying it's all about timing. Building a perfect line and hoping to draft the QB later doesn't time up well because by the time your QB is developed you have a line thats either injured, old, filled with busted draft picks, or guys that are to expensive to keep around in the salary cap era. The Vikings are learning that the hard way now, with an aging O-Line and no QB after years of building up front.

On top of that a good QB should be able to succeed with an average line. Maybe they won't be able to light the world on fire, but they should at least play well week in and week out. Big Ben, Peyton, Brady, Schuab, Matt Ryan, and Brees have all put up great numbers with average lines.

Anyway, back to the original point. QB's aren't always the foundation but more times then not they are. Foundation is the part of the team that last the longest and has the most influence over how you build your team and play on Sundays.

Any unit or player can serve as a teams foundation but more times then not it's the QB. Furthermore very few teams were built around an offensive or defensive front. In fact the only ones I can think of are the Hogs in the 80's, the Giants and Tampa D-Lines over the past decade, and the Steelers D-Line in the 70's. Most championship contenders though have been built around a Quarterback.

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[quote=vallin21;791732]I've said this in a different thread, but IMO if Jones is on the Board we need to pick him. Despite the broken foot, I think he'll end up being the more complete WR (similar to Roddy White) as opposed to Green.

As for FA WR's (if we have a FA) Jones from the Texans is an underrated young talent. Size 6'3, good hands and can jet after the catch.[/quote]

Get Jones from the Texans and leave the draft picks to the offensive and defensive fronts. I hate drafting skill players high. There's so much of a higher margin for bust city. A la the Detroit Lions. Ring a bell? and they aren't exactly winners.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

If u guys think Jacoby Jones is a good WR you are mistaken.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;791737]How can you say thats hilarious? QB being the foundation of a team is a valid hypothesis.[/quote]

It is a valid hypothesis yes, but it is a scenario of catching lightining in a bottle. The skins of the late 80's, early 90's prove my point. 3 superbowls, franchise Qb's. The ravens lone superbowl won by a backup caliber qb. TB, Giants. I will give you that the rule have been changed to benefit teams with top notch qb's.

If you can not protect the QB, you can't develop a QB. So if I was using an analogy, I'd use a car in that the O line is the body of the car, while the QB is the Driver. Without the right protection of a body in a bad accident the driver is most likely dead.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;791755]It is a valid hypothesis yes, but it is a scenario of catching lightining in a bottle. The skins of the late 80's, early 90's prove my point. 3 superbowls, [SIZE=3][B]franchise Qb's[/B][/SIZE]. The ravens lone superbowl won by a backup caliber qb. TB, Giants. I will give you that the rule have been changed to benefit teams with top notch qb's.

If you can not protect the QB, you can't develop a QB. So if I was using an analogy, I'd use a car in that the O line is the body of the car, while the QB is the Driver. Without the right protection of a body in a bad accident the driver is most likely dead.[/quote]
Who?

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;791755]It is a valid hypothesis yes, but it is a scenario of catching lightining in a bottle. The skins of the late 80's, early 90's prove my point. 3 superbowls, franchise Qb's. The ravens lone superbowl won by a backup caliber qb. TB, Giants. I will give you that the rule have been changed to benefit teams with top notch qb's.

If you can not protect the QB, you can't develop a QB. So if I was using an analogy, I'd use a car in that the O line is the body of the car, while the QB is the Driver. Without the right protection of a body in a bad accident the driver is most likely dead.[/quote]

Those teams are the exception, not the rule. I'm not going to stand here and say that you need a QB to win a Super Bowl, but these days if you want to be a viable Super Bowl contender for more then a one year miracle run you need a QB.

I can't think of one team in todays NFL since the post 2004 5 yard holding rules were emphasized that has won a Super Bowl without either a bona fide franchise QB or a QB that played lights out during the postseason.

- Patriots, Steelers, Colts, Packers, and Saints all had top tier franchise QB's.

-The lone outlier, New York Giants, finished their Super Bowl run with a QB that posted a [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/gamelogs?id=MAN473170&season=2007"]95.7 rating in the playoffs that year.[/URL] A performance that saw Eli Manning follow up with a Pro Bowl appearance the following year.

Also of all the teams that even made it to the Super Bowl in the New NFL, only the Bears reached the big game without a Pro Bowl QB. They were slaughtered.

With that said, we need to continue to build our front lines. For anyone who's even remotely curious here's how I personally prioritize units when it comes to the draft.

1. QB
2. DL
3. OL
4. DB
5. LB
6. WR
7. RB

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carolina panthers got there as well, although they lost. If there isn't atleast a decent line to protect your developing franchise QB star he will have no chance to develop a superstar QB. The demise of McNabb IMO was based on the fact that our line never gave him a real chance.

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[quote=diehardskin2982;791775]carolina panthers got there as well, although they lost. If there isn't atleast a decent line to protect your developing franchise QB star he will have no chance to develop a superstar QB. The demise of McNabb IMO was based on the fact that our line never gave him a real chance.[/quote]

That was before the emphasis on the 5 yard cushion. The "new" rules that came about (or more accurately the new style of officiating) because the Colts complained about New England mugging their receivers all over the field during the playoffs the following year. Leading the competition committee to lay the hammer down on DB's and opening up the passing game. Since then every team that has won the Super Bowl has done so with a franchise QB or a really hot QB.

Also it's hard to believe but Jake Delohme was actually a really good QB once upon a time. His QB rating for the playoffs was a 106.1 when they reached the Super Bowl. He then followed up that postseason performance with a 29 TD 15 int season.

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;791715]This reconstruction segment is hilarious. According to them the QB is the foundation of the team. The offensive and defensive line is the foundations IMO. As for widerecievers I think we should draft a kid with size resign moss and also pick someone like Steve Smith. Someone that moves the chains[/quote]


Get the O line situation under control and the rest will follow. It was dumb though to retain CP with the contract we gave him. Guy is a gamer, and I like him a lot. I am glad he is going to stay a Skin, but he isn't going to ever play a full season ever again, unless we shore up the damn line. As for WR, just get a guy that is physical and has good hands. We wasted a ton of low end picks on guys that are small and/or lanky. Speed is nice, but if you can't take a hit or fend off the bump and run you are worthless.

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[quote=GusFrerotte;791802]Get the O line situation under control and the rest will follow. [B]It was dumb though to retain CP with the contract we gave him. Guy is a gamer, and I like him a lot[/B]. I am glad he is going to stay a Skin, but he isn't going to ever play a full season ever again, unless we shore up the damn line. As for WR, just get a guy that is physical and has good hands. We wasted a ton of low end picks on guys that are small and/or lanky. Speed is nice, but if you can't take a hit or fend off the bump and run you are worthless.[/quote]

I think they were joking about the signing CP thread. Pretty sure it was an April Fools joke.

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Portis retained? did I miss something? A big part of shanny's offense is the playaction supported by a strong run game. Because of a bad running back corp and weak line we were number 30 rushing team.

We have 6 runningbacks. Torian cannot stay healthy and Willams is not good enough to be a stand alone back. If we draft VT Running back Ryan Williams or even PSU Evan Royster later on day 3 would help the skins.

Targeting a player like Michael Bush in free agency could go a long way as well.

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[quote=ethat001;791827]I think they were joking about the signing CP thread. Pretty sure it was an April Fools joke.[/quote]

Not think, WAS an April Fool's joke. I guess you didn't read the thread. SS even admitted it was a joke.

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[quote=SkinzWin;791830]Not think, WAS an April Fool's joke. I guess you didn't read the thread. SS even admitted it was a joke.[/quote]

[I]I think[/I] that's why I posted the comment.

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[url=http://prod.www.redskins.clubs.nfl.com/news-and-events/article-1/Writers-Roundtable-Breakout-Player-In-2011/2ed6cede-52d2-46d8-a2e6-34d18bd3d296]Writers Roundtable: Breakout Player In 2011?[/url]


high hopes for MK in 2011?

Re: Redskins Reconstruction: Wide Receivers
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;792282][url=http://prod.www.redskins.clubs.nfl.com/news-and-events/article-1/Writers-Roundtable-Breakout-Player-In-2011/2ed6cede-52d2-46d8-a2e6-34d18bd3d296]Writers Roundtable: Breakout Player In 2011?[/url]


high hopes for MK in 2011?[/quote]

I can't think of a player teammates and coaches have rooted for more in recent years. He works hard and is extremely likable (from what I hear, personally haven't met him), that he should get every opportunity

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[quote=SmootSmack;792283]I can't think of a player teammates and coaches have rooted for more in recent years. He works hard and is extremely likable (from what I hear, personally haven't met him), that he should get every opportunity[/quote]


I got to talk to him 1 time at work, he seemed pretty laid back but it wasn't a long conversation or anything. I hope he becomes a factor.

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Well, Kelly's always injured, didn't do anything with playing time when he had it & was often benched, and has caught 28 catches for 365 yards over 3 years. Half of that on one game (and that one 84 yard play, he got caught from behind inside the 5 yard line & almost fumbled the ball - [URL="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010010314/2009/REG17/redskins@chargers/watch"]see here[/URL] ). Over the first 1-2 years even Devin Thomas showed more promise on the field -- and we cut him last year.

[switch to the redskins fan Homer cap]

Hope he comes back big time. He's 24, he's shown promise the last few games he played, and.. he's all we have. He and Fred Davis could have big years this year and redeem the 2008 draft class.

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Until we get it done!!......

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/04/04/11/Football-Fix-Insider-Report/landing_v3.html?blockID=497156&feedID=4717]Football Fix: Insider Report[/url]

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[QUOTE]
[B]Kirwan: Moss to Redskins sounds right[/B]
By NFL.com Staff |
Published: April 12th, 2011
Pat Kirwan, Vic Carucci, Washington Redskins

[U][B]Randy Moss [/B][/U]finished the 2010 season in near anonymity and will face a unkown future once free agency begins. Moss would probably prefer a return trip to New England, though our Vic Carucci believes that he could be headed to the Jets.

Pat Kirwan threw out the possibility of another possible team during his weekly chat — the Redskins.

“The Randy Moss discussion is leverage against losing Holmes and Braylon Edwards,” Kirwan said. “If Moss is willing to play for near the minimum with incentives, there could be some interest. Watch Moss in a Vikings or Titans uniform and you’re not going to get too excited. He could get things going with a good offseason of work.

“One spot I would keep an eye out for is Washington. Bruce Allen, son of George, has always liked veteran players.”

The Jets, Patriots and Redskins … Moss has been linked to half as many teams as he had receptions for the Titans last season.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/04/12/kirwan-moss-to-redskins-sounds-right/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Kirwan: Moss to Redskins sounds right «[/url][/QUOTE]


No way, my guess is this is just a bad article to start rumors in a dead offseason. After Galloway, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker last season - this wouldn't surprise me. Although he probably is more talented than every other WR we have -- he's old, unmotivated, underachieving, and definitely wouldn't help us rebuild a team for the future. If he couldn't motivate on the Titans, then he's not going to get motivated playing for a 4-12 team either.

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The only Moss that'll be a Redskin in 2011 is Santana

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[quote=ethat001;793192]No way, my guess is this is just a bad article to start rumors in a dead offseason. After Galloway, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker last season - this wouldn't surprise me. Although he probably is more talented than every other WR we have -- he's old, unmotivated, underachieving, and definitely wouldn't help us rebuild a team for the future. If he couldn't motivate on the Titans, then he's not going to get motivated playing for a 4-12 team either.[/quote]

Pat Kirwin and Bruce Allen are good friends...I hope this is pure specualtion and not based on anything Allen may have said to him. We need to be done with all these old guys whether they can play anymore or not...

Sidney Rice is the perfect free agent target to spend a lot of money on...a position of need that is just entering his prime. Getting a young guy like Rice is like buying a high draft pick.

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I think Kirwan is just speculating, R. Moss is too much drama.

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I tend to agree. If Bruce did give Patty real inside info he would never go public with it anyway.

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I'm liking Armstrong's attitide:

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/05/11/11/Armstrong-I-have-to-win-a-spot-all-over-/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=520663&feedID=6355]Armstrong: 'I have to win a spot all over again'[/url]

[QUOTE]One might think that Anthony Armstrong of the Washington Redskins has it made.

After working his way through various NFL practice squads and stops in places like the Intense Football League, Armstrong finally made it to the NFL. As a 27-year-old rookie in 2010, he quickly worked his way into a starting job and caught 44 passes for 871 yards, an impressive average of 19.8 yards per catch. On a team that has been in search of some offensive pop for years, Armstrong would appear to be set up to have an even bigger role in the offense in 2011.

Armstrong doesn’t see it like that. He intends to keep the same work ethic that got him through his long climb through stints with the Odessa Roughnecks and Dallas Desperados to the NFL.

[B]“The way I look at it, I basically have to win a spot all over again,” Armstrong said on Monday before a charity golf event.[/B]

The NFL lockout, of course, has all organized NFL events on hold indefinitely. Armstrong has been passing the time working out with a trainer and playing a little more golf. Unlike players such as Reggie Bush of the Saints and teammate DeAngelo Hall, who appear to be enjoying the added vacation time, Armstrong believes that the lockout is have a detrimental effect.

“I think it’s hurting everybody,” Armstrong said. “The majority of the players in the NFL need to be out there right now, working and improving themselves.”

Armstrong remembered back to a year ago when he was trying to earn a roster spot after being a late-season addition to the Redskins’ practice squad in 2009.

“I needed every single day and OTA and minicamp just to make an impression,” he said. “I think it kind of built up as we went along.”

Armstrong believes that if the lockout wipes out most or all of the minicamps and OTA’s, teams will be forced to keep more veterans rather than bringing on some young, developmental players.

“It’s not always fair, but that’s the way it’s kind of going to be this year,” he said.

Even if Armstrong was inclined to take it easy and rest on his accomplishments from last year, the recent NFL draft would have changed that anyway. The Redskins drafted three wide receivers and Armstrong took note of the development

“I knew they were going to take one,” he said. “Then we end up taking two and then three.

“It’s one of those things where they feel like they have to address the need and that’s fine. I take it as a challenge and I take it as motivation. You can take it as a sign of disrespect, however you want to take it. I use it as fuel, put it in my tank to make me work out harder in the morning, work out harder on the field.”[/QUOTE]

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Also, Niles Paul could make an impact on offense this year:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/wr-niles-paul-adds-size-versatility/2011/05/04/AF58eunF_blog.html#pagebreak"]WR Niles Paul adds size, versatility - The Insider - The Washington Post[/URL]

[QUOTE]

By now, you’ve heard all about Redskins draft pick Leonard Hankerson’s big hands and healthy confidence. The day after they selected Hankerson in the third round, the Redskins went for size and big-play capability again, drafting 6-foot-1, 220-pound Niles Paul out of Nebraska.

In Paul, the Redskins believe they have a versatile receiver capable of shining on both offense and special teams.

The Cornhuskers are known for running the ball, so Paul’s opportunities weren’t that plentiful. But he still managed to produce one of the best careers of any Nebraska receiver during his four seasons in Lincoln. His 103 career receptions for 1,532 yards rank fifth in school history, and his 1,887 kick return yards rank second on Nebraska’s all-time list.

As a senior, Paul recorded 39 catches for a team-high 516 yards while also averaging 24.2 yards a kick return and 11.4 yards per punt return.

The year before, Paul had 40 catches for 796 yards (19.9 yards per catch) and four touchdowns and averaged 27.9 yards on kick returns.

Paul’s senior numbers weren’t what he had hoped for partially because he missed two games with a foot injury. He is confident that he would have compiled bigger numbers had Nebraska’s offense not featured his good friend and fellow Redskins’ draft pick Roy Helu. so heavily...

Said Shanahan: “He’s a tough guy. He’s got good size: 220-pound range. He’s one of the better blockers, he can return punts, kickoffs, very competitive. Now you get to throw him into the mix. He’s a little bigger than the guys we have had. You know he’ll be able to help right away on special teams and have a chance to grow as a receiver.”


[/QUOTE]
Suddenly, we're very deep at WR!

Santana Moss (possibly)
Anthony Armstrong
Leonard Hankerson
Malcolm Kelly
Brandon Banks
Terrence Austin
Niles Paul
Aldrick Robinson
Taurus Johnson

Also, still technically on roster:
Roydell Williams, Mike Furrey, Maurice Price

Plus:
Cooley
Davis
Paulsen





We COULD survive without Moss, but I'd prefer not to. It's going to be tough to keep all of the WRs on that list (Niles Paul and up) but if we can, we're set at WR, possibly for years. That's one deep, talented WR corp in my opinion. Yes, we have a lot of young guys but they have a huge upside. Then again, so did Malcolm Kelly at one time.

I'm happy and confident in this part of the roster though.

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[quote=celts32;793274]Pat Kirwin and Bruce Allen are good friends...I hope this is pure specualtion and not based on anything Allen may have said to him. We need to be done with all these old guys whether they can play anymore or not...

Sidney Rice is the perfect free agent target to spend a lot of money on...a position of need that is just entering his prime. Getting a young guy like Rice is like buying a high draft pick.[/quote]

Even with the Hip injury? Makes him at least somewhat risky

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We do not need to target any WRs. Offensive line must be our focus now. We're ready to go at WR and RB. Torain, Keiland Williams, James Davis, Helu and Royster...good depth. Torain will be a monster when healthy and word is, Helu is going to compete for a top spot too.

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I would bring back Moss and be done with the WRs. We've now got some youth and depth and a good core to move forward with.

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^ Agreed 100%

Moss can still play, he wants to come back. Bring him back. I think the # of rookies we drafted could be used as leverage in negotiations if he's asking for too much, but in the end, I think he'll be back. Losing him would hurt. Shanahan used him correctly last year, in the slot, and he had a great year after people doubting him.

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I wonder if we're still in the Sidney Rice sweepstakes.