The Mike Shanaplan
 

I thought this was a great article and brought great insight into the organization. The Bleacher Report usually sucks to me but Tom Natail did a good job on this one.

[URL="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/689977-the-mike-shanaplan"]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/689977-the-mike-shanaplan[/URL]

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

Good Article.......I could not agree more. They did what they needed to do to start putting the necessary pieces in place for a francise QB....which I am sure they will go after next draft!
HTTR

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[QUOTE]this could potentially be one of the worst teams ever assembled in Washington.[/QUOTE]

not quite sure about that...

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

Lets wait and see what happens at the QB position and via FA before we start calling this a re-build because imo a rebuild doesn't begin by giving up draft picks to trade for aging short term starters like McNabb and Jamaal Brown.

The Burgundy and Gold are part of the Mike Shanahan plan, and its the same plan Mike Shanahan has always had he's trying to win.

Its more re-tool/re-fit then re-build.

And you know what? It just might work because imo he's that good of coach.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

Decent read, agree with most of it but I don't see the team taking a big step backwards this year. Let's see how the roster looks after free agency before we consider this a throw away season.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=Big C;800966]not quite sure about that...[/quote]

I think last year we had a terrible team. Wrong personnel for a new 3-4 defense, big holes in our interior offensive line, a QB more suited for a playoff-ready team (and a bit washed up), a young and inexperienced RB group sans Portis, and really not much of a receiving group. Throw on top of that the head coach and a $100 million dollar turd having a d*ck swinging contest, the whole McNabb benching fiasco (signaling the failure of the McNabb trade), and a head coach that had a slight "let's see if we can win now attitude".

For 2011-12 I think we're going to have a young team with hard-working/good character players that are rebuilding. I see a coach and a front office that are building through the draft, trying to establish discipline and leadership (which I hope this means that they will get rid of Haynesworth and stop the circus atmosphere behind that issue). And who are building the team from the ground up. As I said before, I wish this type of rebuilding would have occurred last year, but I am glad this is happening now.

On a related note, a good article by Chris Russell on Shanahan's plan:

[url=http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/chris-russell/item/59-did-shanahan-give-it-away]"Did Shanahan give it away?"[/url]

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

An honest assessment would probably make one wonder how the hell we even won 6 games last year. Our o-line was generally poor to below average. We had a QB who didn't know the system well enough to execute it. We only had moderate success in running the ball. Lastly, our WRs were one borderline starter and a bunch of castoffs. And the offense was the GOOD part of the team.

I doubt we win 6 games this year absent some major FA mojo but in the end we added a significant infusion of youth and hopefully a useful amount of talent for the long haul. If you can cme out of a draft with 4 starters (eventually) you're getting the job done. I think it is hard to see less than 4 legit starters out of this draft even if none of them is major stud.

This team may suck but perhaps for once we're sitting at the bottom of the mountain ready to make the hike up rather than barreling down the other side with old and/or overrated/misfit players.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=FRPLG;800971]An honest assessment would probably make one wonder how the hell we even won 6 games last year. Our o-line was generally poor to below average. We had a QB who didn't know the system well enough to execute it. We only had moderate success in running the ball. Lastly, our WRs were one borderline starter and a bunch of castoffs. And the offense was the GOOD part of the team.

I doubt we win 6 games this year absent some major FA mojo but in the end we added a significant infusion of youth and hopefully a useful amount of talent for the long haul. If you can cme out of a draft with 4 starters (eventually) you're getting the job done. I think it is hard to see less than 4 legit starters out of this draft even if none of them is major stud.

[B]This team may suck but perhaps for once we're sitting at the bottom of the mountain ready to make the hike up rather than barreling down the other side with old and/or overrated/misfit players[/B].[/quote]

Nice analogy! I agree with your post. A lot of folks in this thread are in a bit of denial, be honest this season is going to suck for the Washington Redskins. There is not enough quality FA out there to suddenly make this a winning team.

IMO, it looks like the skins are trying to build a solid team then place then place that franchise QB into the mix much like BAL, NYJ, ATL, etc...

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=mredskins;801001]Nice analogy! I agree with your post. A lot of folks in this thread are in a bit of denial, be honest this season is going to suck for the Washington Redskins. There is not enough quality FA out there to suddenly make this a winning team.

IMO, it looks like the skins are trying to build a solid team then place then place that franchise QB into the mix much like BAL, NYJ, ATL, etc...[/quote]

That is exactly how I feel as well. I felt we should have kept J.C. that last year and start this process then. It will take about 2-3 years before we become true contenders question is will Danny Boy be willing to wait that long?

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It's not my intention to critique the writers analysis because he does present some udeniable findings. However, to say on the one hand; [quote] Even though it’s going to be a hard season to watch with either Rex Grossman or the unproven John Beck at quarterback, there needs to be a solid foundation set before the team decides to pencil in a young quarterback, and I believe they are taking the cautious steps in doing so. [unquote]

Opinions vary but, I do believe having a solid foundation already in place for a young QB can only serve to speed his development while not having it contribute to what many are saying doomed John Beck in Miami.

On the other hand the writer went on to say [quote] This is the make-or-break year for Mike Shanahan and his coaching staff, if they show progress, then he’s a genius; if he doesn’t, he will be another disappointment to surface in the Nation’s Capital. [unquote]

I don't believe this year will be make-or-break for Shanahan simply because of the facts presented above. What we've just witnessed throughout the course of the draft is the beginning of the building of that foundation. There has to be a starting point and I think most will agree this could very well be it.

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I found this article to be a little weak actually. I think it states the obvious - at least what's obvious to the intelligent football fan: building through the draft is the smart move.

And saying that we're likely to take a step back doesn't make much sense to me. Consider:

- It will be hard to get QB play much worse that what we had last year. McNabb was awful, look at the numbers. When we put Grossman in we had a great deal more production per game. We also had a lot of turnovers, but McNabb wasn't great in that regard either.

- We haven't even gone through the free agency period yet. There are still plenty of impact players available. It seems silly to assume we're building through the draft now and thus precluding ourselves from building through free agency as well. In the end, the idea is to get Shanahan/Haslett type players, any way you can.

- The offensive line has not been upgraded personnel-wise (yet), but should get better regardless. Trent Williams is likely to grow in his second season and Jamaal Brown is likely to get healthier.

- Last year our only effective runner was Ryan Torain. But as we all know a team must have more than one effective runner (especially considering Torain is hurt so often). The rookies will make an immediate impact in the running game.

- Having a second capable saftety in Atogwe will make a big difference. And having a second pass rush threat will make a big difference.

I think our offense will get very aggressive. We'll be putting up crazy yards, and probably turning it over a lot. I don't think we'll make the playoffs but there's so many sources of potential improvement for the 'Skins.

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It's going to be another tough year. Are we going to be worse than last? I don't know. It's difficult to say right now. It's a possibility though. Sometimes you've got to take a step back in order to improve.

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Why do so many people think our team will be awful next year? We have pretty much the same team, except improved on defense. We will probably have another 6-10ish year, unless whoever plays quarterback somehow plays worse or better than donovan grossman

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[quote=Mattyk;800968]Decent read, agree with most of it but I don't see the team taking a big step backwards this year. Let's see how the roster looks after free agency before we consider this a throw away season.[/quote]

You know, you would think people would UNDERSTAND that but obviously not! I mean come on folks FA hasn't even started yet. :benched:

Lets see what they say when we have 2 new OL, another QB and possibly another WR.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=Schneed10;801006]I found this article to be a little weak actually. I think it states the obvious - at least what's obvious to the intelligent football fan: building through the draft is the smart move.

And saying that we're likely to take a step back doesn't make much sense to me. Consider:

- It will be hard to get QB play much worse that what we had last year. McNabb was awful, look at the numbers. When we put Grossman in we had a great deal more production per game. We also had a lot of turnovers, but McNabb wasn't great in that regard either.

- We haven't even gone through the free agency period yet. There are still plenty of impact players available. It seems silly to assume we're building through the draft now and thus precluding ourselves from building through free agency as well. In the end, the idea is to get Shanahan/Haslett type players, any way you can.

- The offensive line has not been upgraded personnel-wise (yet), but should get better regardless. Trent Williams is likely to grow in his second season and Jamaal Brown is likely to get healthier.

- Last year our only effective runner was Ryan Torain. But as we all know a team must have more than one effective runner (especially considering Torain is hurt so often). The rookies will make an immediate impact in the running game.

- Having a second capable saftety in Atogwe will make a big difference. And having a second pass rush threat will make a big difference.

I think our offense will get very aggressive. We'll be putting up crazy yards, and probably turning it over a lot. I don't think we'll make the playoffs but there's so many sources of potential improvement for the 'Skins.[/quote]

agree completely. not to mention its everyone's second year in the offense as well, second year in the 3-4, etc. as long as we re-sign santana moss, i dont really see why we would be worse than last year. we havent lost anyone, yet, aside from mcnabb and haynesworth which are certain, and have added a good free safety in atogwe and had a good draft.

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[quote=redsk1;801007]It's going to be another tough year. Are we going to be worse than last? I don't know. It's difficult to say right now. It's a possibility though. Sometimes you've got to take a step back in order to improve.[/quote]

How would we be worse? The Defense is already improved and we drafter a WR that will start day 1... Just wait and see my man

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;801013]How would we be worse? The Defense is already improved and we drafter a WR that will start day 1... Just wait and see my man[/quote]

I don't think we will be worst I feel we are 2-3 years away from being serious SB contenders. I also agree that we should re-build or re-tool so to speak before getting a franchise QB. I thought Shanny was going to do that last year & keep J.C. I feel ATL, BAL, STL, NYJ success came from that philosophy so NYJ could take there franchise QB to the AFC Championship game twice in a row as a rookie & sophomore. We will be improved but not yet a elite franchise.

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[quote=Redskin Warrior;801021]I don't think we will be worst I feel we are 2-3 years away from being serious SB contenders. I also agree that we should re-build or re-tool so to speak before getting a franchise QB. I thought Shanny was going to do that last year & keep J.C. I feel ATL, BAL, STL, NYJ success came from that philosophy so NYJ could take there franchise QB to the AFC Championship game twice in a row as a rookie & sophomore. We will be improved but not yet a elite franchise.[/quote]


To be fair also BAL and ATL had off years, either do to injuries or the lost of Vick, that yeild them the high picks to get Flacco and Ryan. So I would not necessarily say those two teams planned for those QB's.

Also, to be fair even further I don't know how much of a franchise QB Flacco is going to end up being. He is really starting to show some rust on his armor and with the Ravens defense getting even older they will need the offense to step up. Flacco has so many weapons and a great/good line and he is still at best average. I think a lot of folks prematurely anointed him the franchise QB simply becasue like everyone else we are desperate for the next great franchise QB. Honestly you can say the same case about Sanchez, he has not done anything to make me go I wish we had him. Now Bradford makes me cry at night "why why could we not have him!".

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=mredskins;801022]To be fair also BAL and ATL had off years, either do to injuries or the lost of Vick, that yeild them the high picks to get Flacco and Ryan. So I would not necessarily say those two teams planned for those QB's.

Also, to be fair even further I don't know how much of a franchise QB Flacco is going to end up being. He is really starting to show some rust on his armor and with the Ravens defense getting even older they will need the offense to step up. Flacco has so many weapons and a great/good line and he is still at best average. I think a lot of folks prematurely anointed him the franchise QB simply becasue like everyone else we are desperate for the next great franchise QB. Honestly you can say the same case about Sanchez, he has not done anything to make me go I wish we had him. Now Bradford makes me cry at night "why why could we not have him!".[/quote]

I agree on Flacco & Sanchez being average maybe slighty above average. But there franchises can win games in other ways until they fully develop & learn there craft. Whether its the running game or defense I also think BAL can win and will always be able to win with a Trent Dilfer prototype QB. They really focus on defense more than offense for sure. We aren't good on defense or offense no franchise OL other than Trent we got some work to do. Even if they didn't plan on getting Ryan or Flacco they had the supporting cast the take them to the playoffs with them.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=30gut;800967]Lets wait and see what happens at the QB position and via FA before we start calling this a re-build because imo a rebuild doesn't begin by giving up draft picks to trade for aging short term starters like McNabb and Jamaal Brown.

The Burgundy and Gold are part of the Mike Shanahan plan, and its the same plan Mike Shanahan has always had he's trying to win.

Its more re-tool/re-fit then re-build.

And you know what? It just might work because imo he's that good of coach.[/quote]

Have you ever thought that maybe Shan thought we had a better team then we did when he came to DC. Then after last year he realized the need to rebuild.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;801021]I don't think we will be worst I feel we are 2-3 years away from being serious SB contenders. I also agree that we should re-build or re-tool so to speak before getting a franchise QB. I thought Shanny was going to do that last year & keep J.C. I feel ATL, BAL, STL, NYJ success came from that philosophy so NYJ could take there franchise QB to the AFC Championship game twice in a row as a rookie & sophomore. We will be improved but not yet a elite franchise.[/quote]

superbowl contenders is a stretch. i look for consistent playoff appearances. the next step is being the best in the nfc(currently last in our division), and then you get lucky on top of that strong organization to get a superbowl win.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

This says it all for me:

"What many football fans don’t understand out there is that rebuilding takes longer than one year. Even though there was a lot of depth at the quarterback position in this year’s draft, each quarterback had major flaws.

These include Cam Newton’s off-the-field issues or simplistic offense in college, Jake Locker’s accuracy problems, Blaine Gabbert and Andy Dalton transitioning from a spread offense, Christian Ponder’s durability issues and Ryan Mallett’s character concerns.

With an upcoming draft class of quarterbacks such as Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley and Landry Jones, the Redskins have the potential to upgrade that particular position in the future. Right now, the Redskins filled holes that were an absolute necessity.

Even though it’s going to be a hard season to watch with either Rex Grossman or the unproven John Beck at quarterback, there needs to be a solid foundation set before the team decides to pencil in a young quarterback, and I believe they are taking the cautious steps in doing so."

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[quote=skinsfaninok;801013]How would we be worse? The Defense is already improved and we drafter a WR that will start day 1... Just wait and see my man[/quote]

Not saying we will be but it's a possibility. I think like alot of us think, that it will be the 2nd year in MS's system. We've got some young guys coming in..we signed Otogwe..there's a chance we'll be better.

We could be worse though. Moss may not return. Rogers may not. McIntosh may not. We've added some draftees but they're unproven right now. The oline improved toward the end of the year but was horrible most of it. Our QB situation is still up in the air. We've got alot of "ifs."

After Free Agency we'll know alot more.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

Redsk1, you are correct. It is possible that the team will be worse than last year. And yet I still believe we are heading in right direction. Shanny and Allen are trying to change the culture in Redskins organization and they are succeeding so far. Even Willie Parker said that Redskins organization didn't care about football, all players cared about was partying. The FO are trying to change that by bringing in young hard-working players (see Kerrigan, Hankerson, and etc..). That is what I care about the most.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

Worst team ever? Worse than last year?

Not a chance for either.


Our defense is going to be one of the better in the league I predict. The first year of a 3-4 transition is usually ugly.

We drafted some key pieces, picked up others from FA (O.J. Atogwe). We reinforced the CB spot in the draft but I still expect us to make a run at Nnamdi.

Here's my predicted D depth chart:

DEs - Carricker, Alexander/Holliday
NT - A. Bryant/Jenkins
OLBs - Orakpo, Kerrigan
ILBs - Fletcher, Blades/Riley
CB - Hall, Asomugha (if not, Buchanon/B. Thompson)
SS - Landry
FS - Otogwe


That's a solid D to me. If we can get Nnamdi Asomugha, this WILL be the best secondaries not only in the league now, perhaps ever. Hall, Nnamdi, Landry and Atogwe? That's a Madden roster!


On offense, our WR is deep now, as is RB. We just need some FA O-linemen and any QB should have plenty of options and success. I say 8-8 minimum is our record. The middle of the schedule has a nice winning streak set up for us, but it's a tough last month of the season. Thankfully, the Giants' collapse will be going strong.

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I don't know of any legitimate argument that can be put forth suggesting we will be worse this year than last. Despite sporting the 31st ranked defense, new system, new coaching staff and terminology the team was still competitive in just about every game.

We won't forget that Monday night debacle against Philadelphia but, aside from that game we had our chances against all our competition. The game against Tampa Bay after coming from behind should have resulted in a win, unfortunately bad fortune prevented it.

Based on the additions already made through the draft and the prospect for further additions once free agency becomes a reality, despite the schedule [which I don't consider friendly] we should improve 2-maybe 3 games over last year. I look for improvement in increments not overnight success and I feel we have the ability to accomplish that. 8-8 or 9-7 would be a tremendous improvement all things considered.

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[quote=redsk1;801046]Not saying we will be but it's a possibility. I think like alot of us think, that it will be the 2nd year in MS's system. We've got some young guys coming in..we signed Otogwe..there's a chance we'll be better.

[B]We could be worse though. Moss may not return. Rogers may not. McIntosh may not. [/B]We've added some draftees but they're unproven right now. The oline improved toward the end of the year but was horrible most of it. Our QB situation is still up in the air. We've got alot of "ifs."

After Free Agency we'll know alot more.[/quote]

We'll be [I]better[/I], not worse, if McIntosh is gone. He's a complete bum who gives us nothing, and has NEVER lived up to the billing when you consider what we gave up to get him. Major whiff by Gibbs and Cerrato.

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[quote=Mattyk;800968]Decent read, agree with most of it but I don't see the team taking a big step backwards this year. Let's see how the roster looks after free agency before we consider this a throw away season.[/quote]

Agreed. I don't see how our defense won't be better than the 31st overall ranked unit of last season, and I'd be surprised if our offense doesn't improve as well. We're probably around a 7 win team, but to say this is the worst team ever assembled in Washington means we'll be around 2 or 3 wins. No way we're that bad.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=GMScud;801066]Agreed. I don't see how our defense won't be better than the 31st overall ranked unit of last season, and I'd be surprised if our offense doesn't improve as well. We're probably around a 7 win team, but to say this is the worst team ever assembled in Washington means we'll be around 2 or 3 wins. No way we're that bad.[/quote]

Writer was skeptical of attaching too much optimism to his findings.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=mredskins;801001]Nice analogy! I agree with your post. A lot of folks in this thread are in a bit of denial, be honest this season is going to suck for the Washington Redskins. There is not enough quality FA out there to suddenly make this a winning team.

IMO, it looks like the skins are trying to build a solid team then place then place that franchise QB into the mix much like BAL, NYJ, ATL, etc...[/quote]

I have seen teams that looked worse in the offseason surprise me when the actual season started. No need to "be honest" since we basically know nothing at this point.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

................

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

^ Awesome start a thread on it, I am sure plenty folks want to hear about your adventure!

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

We have to resign Brown. 2010 rules most likely means no Harris and no Joesph. Rumors also have the Buc's working out a long term deal with Joseph.

[QUOTE]Well, just imagine if you will, there's a line at One Buccaneer Place for long-term contracts, big ole Roly Poly Penn, as in Donald, got his. Davin Joseph may get his, but there's Barrett Ruud standing there with his bowl and Mark Dominik is controlling the soup[/QUOTE]

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

Didn't feel like another thread lol, I hope we keep him and he really seemed Like he enjoyed his time in WSH. One thing I can say is JB thinks MS is a damn good football coach and liked DS also. I really couldn't ask him much though.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;801168]Didn't feel like another thread lol, I hope we keep him and he really seemed Like he enjoyed his time in WSH. One thing I can say is JB thinks MS is a damn good football coach and liked DS also. I really couldn't ask him much though.[/quote]

I got you covered. If it fails I'll take the heat.

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The way I see it once Free Agency gets started we will sign VY to be our QB. We will give him limited plays until he learns the offense. Grossman or Beck will be the starter. In 2012 draft we will be able to get a good QB maybe Luck will fall to us because most teams that needed a QB picked a QB other than the bills, cardinals, & seahawks. We will release Grossman or Beck in 2012 and we will have VY starting for three years and then the QB we draft in 2012 will takeover. HTTR.

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=Schneed10;801006]I found this article to be a little weak actually. I think it states the obvious - at least what's obvious to the intelligent football fan: building through the draft is the smart move.

And saying that we're likely to take a step back doesn't make much sense to me. Consider:

- It will be hard to get QB play much worse that what we had last year. McNabb was awful, look at the numbers. When we put Grossman in we had a great deal more production per game. We also had a lot of turnovers, but McNabb wasn't great in that regard either.

- We haven't even gone through the free agency period yet. There are still plenty of impact players available. It seems silly to assume we're building through the draft now and thus precluding ourselves from building through free agency as well. In the end, the idea is to get Shanahan/Haslett type players, any way you can.

- The offensive line has not been upgraded personnel-wise (yet), but should get better regardless. Trent Williams is likely to grow in his second season and Jamaal Brown is likely to get healthier.

- Last year our only effective runner was Ryan Torain. But as we all know a team must have more than one effective runner (especially considering Torain is hurt so often). The rookies will make an immediate impact in the running game.

- Having a second capable saftety in Atogwe will make a big difference. And having a second pass rush threat will make a big difference.

I think our offense will get very aggressive. We'll be putting up crazy yards, and probably turning it over a lot. I don't think we'll make the playoffs but there's so many sources of potential improvement for the 'Skins.[/quote]


Agreed. I don't expect a playoff season, but I do expect a more fun season watching a very young team grow and play aggressively.

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I know it is only a rumor, but what is everyone's thought about Matt Hasselbeck coming to DC

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

[quote=Monkeydad;801055]
DEs - Carricker, Alexander/Holliday
NT - A. Bryant/Jenkins
OLBs - Orakpo, Kerrigan
ILBs - Fletcher, Blades/Riley
CB - Hall, Asomugha (if not, Buchanon/B. Thompson)
SS - Landry
FS - Otogwe
[/quote]

I could be wrong but I thought we drafted Jenkins to play mostly DE?

Re: The Mike Shanaplan
 

If the Redskins win fewer than 6 games this year, then there would be good reason to heap a lot of scorn on Shanahan and company. The reason has nothing to do with whom he drafted or anything about the schemes or anything at all attached to roster creation.

If the Redsksins win fewer than 6 games this year there should be floggings at Redskins Park [B]on the basis of the schedule[/B].

The Redskins get to play the NFC West this year. There are no great teams in the NFC West; there are two bad teams and two mediocre teams there. [B]That represents 4 games against less than fearsome opponents[/B].

In addition, the Redskins get to play the Bills (when did that team last have a winning season) and the Panthers (or should I call them the Pantloads?) [B]There are two more games against less than fearsome opponents[/B].

The Skins have 6 games against mediocre to bad teams right there. If they end this season at 4-12 against that competition, somebody's head ought to roll.