Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6671873&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines]Several NFL owners resisting deal to end lockout, sources say - ESPN[/url]

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Lemme guess...Ralph Wilson, Mike Brown, and Jerry Richardson are resisting...

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Quick question;

HOW THE HELL IS DAN SNYDER STILL CONSIDERED THE WORST OWNER IN FOOTBALL!?

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=NLC1054;807371]Quick question;

HOW THE HELL IS DAN SNYDER STILL CONSIDERED THE WORST OWNER IN FOOTBALL!?[/quote]

Because we've been trained to feel that way

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

I have to agree with Florio on this. Any deal that leaves the owners or players universally happy will end up being a bad one probably.

I see no reason they(owners) can't just make headway into undoing the last deal(if it really is SO bad) without going to the mat to totally undo it. Then come back next time and make a little more headway if they have to.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Any deal that all the owners agree on, almost by definition, would be a bad one for the players. I would like to see a deal where the following people were unhappy at the end of the negotiations:

owners:JJ, DS, MB, RW and JR
players: Manning, Brady, Von Miller, (maybe) SD WR whose name escapes me

I think for the deal to last, it needs to have a real 80% approval(i don't consider the 2006 30-2 vote real, because that didn't really reflect the quality of the CBA as much as the owners fear,at that time, of a CBA with no salary cap.)

Anyone know how the player approval process would work if a deal does get hashed out?

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Probably be put to a vote by the [non-existent] union members.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;807406]Probably be put to a vote by the [non-existent] union members.[/quote]

They'd have to recertify and vote as well as the CBA would need to be approved by the courts I believe. I think the owners would have to end the lockout in anticipation of such actions though since they'd take some time. That's why mid-July is the drop date for starting the season on time. A bunch of stuff has to happen to take an agreed upon CBA and implement it officially. Joe can probably be more precise on this.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Actually, no. Labor law stuff is mostly beyond my ken. I have a passing knowledge but not much - you and CRed have given much better summaries of the legal situation than me.

I can understand the resistance of some owners. Those who thought the last deal was a bad one aren't going to be thrilled with one that gives more to the players. I would imagine it's the "poor team" owners (Brown, Richardson) rather than the rich team (Snyder, Jones) that are upset by the deal.

While universal agreement is not likely, these guys need to be somehow "on board" with the deal or we're just gonna be revisiting this again in another few years. It's that whole "history repeating itself" lesson.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=NLC1054;807371]Quick question;

HOW THE HELL IS DAN SNYDER STILL CONSIDERED THE WORST OWNER IN FOOTBALL!?[/quote]

ESPN says so.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

can we just "off" these owners, and go about the season.. lol... but, seriously this is retarded...how greedy do they have to be....the poorest owner is probably still worth $750 million. do they really need more? No, it's just pure avarice.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;807422]Actually, no. Labor law stuff is mostly beyond my ken. I have a passing knowledge but not much - you and CRed have given much better summaries of the legal situation than me.

I can understand the resistance of some owners. Those who thought the last deal was a bad one aren't going to be thrilled with one that gives more to the players. [B]I would imagine it's the "poor team" owners (Brown, Richardson) rather than the rich team (Snyder, Jones) that are upset by the deal. [/B]

While universal agreement is not likely, these guys need to be somehow "on board" with the deal or we're just gonna be revisiting this again in another few years. It's that whole "history repeating itself" lesson.[/quote]

Well, if you are Jerry Jones, or the Giants and Jets owners, and you just shelled out a ton to build a new stadium (and now are charging mega psl's to diehard fans) you may not be happy with the level of revenue sharing included in any final CBA. How happy do you think Snyder and Jones are to be sending buckets of money over to Cinci or Bidwell just because those owners' franchises don't do the same volume of business?

I think the high revenue teams are more likely to acquiesce, but that's because they need the revenue to be coming in. The low rev teams just like to complain...

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;807434]Well, if you are Jerry Jones, or the Giants and Jets owners, and you just shelled out a ton to build a new stadium (and now are charging mega psl's to diehard fans) you may not be happy with the level of revenue sharing included in any final CBA. How happy do you think Snyder and Jones are to be sending buckets of money over to Cinci or Bidwell just because those owners' franchises don't do the same volume of business?

I think the high revenue teams are more likely to acquiesce, but that's because they need the revenue to be coming in. The low rev teams just like to complain...[/quote]

My understanding is that revenue sharing isn't a provision of the CBA. It is a separate item to be negotiated amongst the owners. It certainly is a major factor in the current situation though.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;807373]Because we've been trained to feel that way[/quote]

And here I was thinking it was because he was an impulsive little prick who mismanaged the Redskins from day one.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Lotus;807365]Lemme guess...Ralph Wilson, Mike Brown, and Jerry Richardson are resisting...[/quote]

Please God release the names. They deserve to be ostracized publicly.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Someone said here back in March (maybe it was me, but I think it was someone like FRPLG maybe) who said when it really came down to it we'd see that the owners have their own problems within their own ranks, because there's such a division between haves and have-nots. Or better said, the spends and spends-nots

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=SmootSmack;807466]Someone said here back in March (maybe it was me, but I think it was someone like FRPLG maybe) who said when it really came down to it we'd see that the owners have their own problems within their own ranks, because there's such a division between haves and have-nots. Or better said, the spends and spends-nots[/quote]

It may or may not have been me but the revenue sharing issue is the elephant in the room that the owners ignore. In fact there's a pretty good argument to be made that they've perpetrated this entire lockout in an attempt to not have to work out the revenue sharing. Maybe not consciously, but out of necessity because the divisions on revenue sharing are deep seeded, insidious and maybe impossible to fix. Not sure I blame owners like Jones, Snyder and Kraft when the Ralph Wilsons of the world refuse to even try to make extra money by perhaps selling the naming rights to his stadium instead of being vain enough to just keep his own name on it. Why should Jerry and Danny split the money they got for selling the naming rights when Wilson won't?

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Interesting. Now these so called "sports-fans" who've been siding with the owners since day one will wake up and see who's the real bad guys in this case.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;807526]Interesting. Now these so called "sports-fans" who've been siding with the owners since day one will wake up and see who's the real bad guys in this case.[/quote]

Keep in mind a lot of people were simply siding with whoever they felt could end the lockout early. When the players started pursuing a more court driven strategy and didn't seem interested in negotiating people started siding with the owners.

Technically its the owners fault to begin with, seeing as how they decided to lock the players out but for now the fans in general will side with whoever seems more likely to end bring an end to this tragedy of an offseason (ie whoever's not avoiding negotiations and working through the courts).

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;807526]Interesting. Now these so called "sports-fans" who've been siding with the owners since day one will wake up and see who's the real bad guys in this case.[/quote]

Many of these fans also love the mantra that playing is a privilege not a right and if players don't like it they can find another line of work. Well guess what, so is owning a team. If you don't like what your peers are choosing to do in order to keep a $9 BILLION industry going, then sell your team. If not then STFU and sign on the dotted line.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Interesting how this lockout can lead to society issues: since this sports obeys to capitalist rules, we shouldn't be surprises that each side is trying its' best to have the biggest possible part of the cake (assuming the invisible hand will make the best reality for everybody) ... but, one could say that maybe everything shouldn't be for sale (for example the name of a stadium) or that owners and players should have the same goal: to entertain people (which logically leads to making a lot of money anyway, don't worry).

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

If you take some time to read about the history of the NFL, you will soon learn that the commissioners of the 50s and 60s came up with the concept of revenue sharing for the league as a way to grow the product. Back then, the Giants in NY and the Bears in Chicago were the big money teams and the commissioners convinced those owners to share large portions of the league's revenues equally among all the teams.

That led to competitive balance.

Many would argue that competitive balance led to more interesting opportunities to wager on NFL games (legally or illegally) with point spreads and that fueled the great expansion of the NFL creating the economic juggernaut that it is in 2011.

Note that it was the RICH owners who acceded to the revenue sharing concept and it remains in the control of the RICH owners to create a revenue sharing system that will work for the league. The smaller revenue owners cannot - - in reality - - make that happen.

Danny Boy is in a position where he could exert some leadership here on the part of the RICH owners because he - - unlike some other high revenue owners - - also owns his stadium. However - and let me be as diplomatic as I can here - -, Danny Boy is nowhere near the "most respected owner" among the group of 32. He can play an important role in forging a deal here but he will have to mend a LOT of fences in the owner's room and with some of the NFL front office execs. And one of the problems is that Danny Boy seems to be far more adept at tearing down fences than mending them...

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;807526]Interesting. Now these so called "sports-fans" who've been siding with the owners since day one will wake up and see who's the real bad guys in this case.[/quote]

EXACTLY!

The greedy American employee always wanting more money and forcing the owner to turn to cheap labor which has spawned the ever growing hord of South Americans jumping our boarders trespassing and taking the jobs from the American worker so they can send money home to South America to support their families leaving Americans with out jobs and income to support their families. The next thing we will hear is the owners moving their businesses to foreign countries in order to get away from the taxes and the next thing you know sweat shops.

Oh sorry.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;807561]If you take some time to read about the history of the NFL, you will soon learn that the commissioners of the 50s and 60s came up with the concept of revenue sharing for the league as a way to grow the product. Back then, the Giants in NY and the Bears in Chicago were the big money teams and the commissioners convinced those owners to share large portions of the league's revenues equally among all the teams.

That led to competitive balance.

Many would argue that competitive balance led to more interesting opportunities to wager on NFL games (legally or illegally) with point spreads and that fueled the great expansion of the NFL creating the economic juggernaut that it is in 2011.

Note that it was the RICH owners who acceded to the revenue sharing concept and it remains in the control of the RICH owners to create a revenue sharing system that will work for the league. The smaller revenue owners cannot - - in reality - - make that happen.

Danny Boy is in a position where he could exert some leadership here on the part of the RICH owners because he - - unlike some other high revenue owners - - also owns his stadium. However - and let me be as diplomatic as I can here - -, Danny Boy is nowhere near the "most respected owner" among the group of 32. He can play an important role in forging a deal here but he will have to mend a LOT of fences in the owner's room and with some of the NFL front office execs. And one of the problems is that Danny Boy seems to be far more adept at tearing down fences than mending them...[/quote]

I could be wrong but I don't know why I get the feeling your slightly wrong and that the whole revenue sharing was probably requested and possibly helped to be intstituted by the teams who were making the least to assist them in keeping their teams running. I'm sure the Rich owners decided it was the best thing to do to keep football growing.

Another note.... Snyder does not own his stadium. Last I knew he was under a contract to stay in Fed Ex and which is why he didn't agree to a new stadium back in DC or to move to VA because he is stuck in Fed Ex for another 10 or mabe it's 9 yrs now. So as I have said before fans look at the Skins and immediatly think all the teams are doing as well monitarily when in fact the Skins are one of the best money making teams in the NFL. Not all teams are in the same situation, BUT..... even though they are doing well monitarily keep in mind the owner has to pay rent, or a mortgage, or pay off loans in order to keep the stadium. Which by the way costs money and if the fans are starting to feel the pinch from the bad economy and are losing their homes then I can onl guess that they are not renewing their season tickets which means there is no guarenteed income and they are scared about a possible loss of revenue which might effect the overall 9 bill they are receiving......ie; why they are requesting another 1 bill from the players in order to ensure the team does not get screwed in the end when the income drops and the really good teams can't send as much to the total revenue for the really bad teams.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Pete Rozell helped come up with revenue sharing in the 60's

[url=http://www.shmoop.com/nfl-history/economy.html]Economy in NFL History[/url]

And Snyder definitely owns FedEx, it's one of the reasons the Skins are so highly valued, because the stadium is factored in.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Hopefully after the owners' meeting ends on Wednesday we'll have some good news.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=SBXVII;807563]EXACTLY!

The greedy American employee always wanting more money and forcing the owner to turn to cheap labor which has spawned the ever growing hord of South Americans jumping our boarders trespassing and taking the jobs from the American worker so they can send money home to South America to support their families leaving Americans with out jobs and income to support their families. The next thing we will hear is the owners moving their businesses to foreign countries in order to get away from the taxes and the next thing you know sweat shops.

Oh sorry.[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.oberholtzer-creative.com/visualculture/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/brainwashing.gif[/IMG]

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=SBXVII;807564]Another note.... Snyder does not own his stadium. Last I knew he was under a contract to stay in Fed Ex and which is why he didn't agree to a new stadium back in DC or to move to VA because he is stuck in Fed Ex for another 10 or mabe it's 9 yrs now. [/quote]

Read below. Snyder owns the stadium. That stadium was paid for when JKC built it and with his own money. That's exactly why the Skins sold for 800+million at the time.


[quote=Mattyk;807567]And Snyder definitely owns FedEx, it's one of the reasons the Skins are so highly valued, because the stadium is factored in.[/quote]


Also, the only reason Snyder hasn't moved back into DC is because nobody in the area is going to sponsor that asshole with taxpayer money. That's the only reason why.

[url=http://press.org/news-multimedia/news/loverro-no-way-redskins-get-fully-government-financed-stadium-move-dc]Loverro: 'No way' Redskins get fully government-financed D.C. stadium | The National Press Club[/url]

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Mattyk;807567]Pete Rozell helped come up with revenue sharing in the 60's

[URL="http://www.shmoop.com/nfl-history/economy.html"]Economy in NFL History[/URL]

And Snyder definitely owns FedEx, it's one of the reasons the Skins are so highly valued, because the stadium is factored in.[/quote]

After a lenthy thought process I figured I was not correct about the stadium but he is tied to the stadium for a few more yrs I presume due to naming rights?

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=SBXVII;807572]After a lenthy thought process I figured I was not correct about the stadium but he is tied to the stadium for a few more yrs I presume due to naming rights?[/quote]

He's not tied to it in the way you're referring other than by the fact that it is relatively new for a stadium. It's only now getting into it's middle age period.

And the thing that is keeping him in the stadium more than anything is the implosion in the real estate market (since cities have figured out that stadiums are not the revenue generators they are made out to be). That land is worth a mint 10 years ago. Enough to build him a new stadium. Now...not so much.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=FRPLG;807574]He's not tied to it in the way you're referring other than by the fact that it is relatively new for a stadium. It's only now getting into it's middle age period.

And the thing that is keeping him in the stadium more than anything is the implosion in the real estate market (since cities have figured out that stadiums are not the revenue generators they are made out to be). That land is worth a mint 10 years ago. Enough to build him a new stadium. Now...not so much.[/quote]

I would add that once you own a stadium there is an incentive to stay there. It is economically intelligent to keep a car I own rather than always taking on new car payments. It behooves me to stay in a house I own rather than moving from new mortgage to new mortgage. Likewise, if you own Fedex, there is reason to stay rather than trying to finance a new stadium.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Lotus;807575]I would add that once you own a stadium there is an incentive to stay there. It is economically intelligent to keep a car I own rather than always taking on new car payments. It behooves me to stay in a house I own rather than moving from new mortgage to new mortgage. Likewise, if you own Fedex, there is reason to stay rather than trying to finance a new stadium.[/quote]

And since they keep selling the games out despite a general sense amongst fans that the stadium is average and the experience lacking then why would he even be motivated to build a new stadium. The only thing I can think of that would motivate him is if he concludes the stadium is going to become a problem in terms of revenue generation and he'd like to head that off or just plain ego. I think he has a big ego...I don't think he'll shell out upwards of a billion dollars to staisfy it. The only thing he likes more than himself is money.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=FRPLG;807648][B]And since they keep selling the games out despite a general sense amongst fans that the stadium is average and the experience lacking then why would he even be motivated to build a new stadium. [/B] The only thing I can think of that would motivate him is if he concludes the stadium is going to become a problem in terms of revenue generation and he'd like to head that off or just plain ego. I think he has a big ego...I don't think he'll shell out upwards of a billion dollars to staisfy it. The only thing he likes more than himself is money.[/quote]

Excellent point.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=FRPLG;807648]And since they keep selling the games out .[/quote]


Thing is they aren't,club seats haven't been totally sold out for over 10 years.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=Giantone;807656]Thing is they aren't,club seats haven't been totally sold out for over 10 years.[/quote]

This is a huge reason why Dan might not want a new stadium at this particular time. The demand for high paying tickets, suites, and PSLs is probably at a all time low right now so trying to get people to fork over even more money wouldn't be a smart decision. The team would have to become competitive for some years before he could drum up the interests again to charge the type of fees he's going to want to charge for new stadium PSLs.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=FRPLG;807574]He's not tied to it in the way you're referring other than by the fact that [B]it is relatively new for a stadium[/B]. It's only now getting into it's middle age period.

And the thing that is keeping him in the stadium more than anything is the implosion in the real estate market (since cities have figured out that stadiums are not the revenue generators they are made out to be). That land is worth a mint 10 years ago. Enough to build him a new stadium. Now...not so much.[/quote]

Yes, but it is now also the oldest stadium in the NFC East.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Let us look back at how Fed Ex Field came into existence.

Jack Kent Cooke wanted to build a stadium and put his name on it - - not sell naming rights. He tried to get land and zoning changes through the District government for about ten years offering a deal that he would pay for the stadium if they gave him the land and upgraded the road access to the stadium. The DC government never got around to doing anything thinking that he had nowhere else to go but to stay in RFK Stadium. [To those who think FedEx is old and out of date, you should have seen RFK...]

Cooke tried to get a deal done for a site in Alexandria VA but was stopped by a grass roots uprising there. He also looked at a site in Laurel MD; I do not recall what the stumbling block to construction there was.

After years of trying to get Cooke's attention, PG County contacted him at the height of his frustration. He was not getting any younger and if he was going to see his new stadium with his name on it before he croaked, he had to get moving.

Cooke and PG County came to a deal for land and road access; Cooke would build the stadium and he promised that the Redskins would play in that stadium or another stadium in PG County for a specified period of time. [I think that period of time was 30 years meaning the Redskins are "locked into" playing in PG County until about 2025 without a whole lot of legal wrangling.]

Because Cooke was old and wanted to see his stadium up and running before he died, Jack Kent Cooke Stadium was built fast and lots of corners were cut in order to get the stadium done as soon as possible. Cooke also wanted his stadium to be the biggest in the NFL so they built it big.

But the combination of "big" with "fast construction to get the job done ASAP" along with meager road access made Jack Kent Cooke Stadium a disappointing venue the day it opened. There have been changes to the stadium in the Danny Boy era, but adding amenities to Fed Ex Field is more like putting lipstick on a pig than anything else.

As with the ESPN ranking of the Redskins franchise almost at the bottom of the list for sports franchises, FedEx Field is indeed one of the worst stadium experiences in the NFL. Yes, there are worse; the stadiums in Oakland, New Orleans, Buffalo and Minnesota are more than bleak. But Fed Ex Field is clearly in the bottom 25% of the NFL stadiums and the likelihood that will change significantly in the next 5-10 years is small.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=SkinzWin;807661]Yes, but it is now also the oldest stadium in the NFC East.[/quote]

You can't always be the newest all the time. What were the respective ages of all the other NFC East stadiums [I]before [/I]they upgraded?

Exactly...

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

[quote=hooskins;807673]You can't always be the newest all the time. What were the respective ages of all the other NFC East stadiums [I]before [/I]they upgraded?

Exactly...[/quote]

Newest isn't always the best thing to be. The "NEW MEADOWLANDS" ...in my opinion stinks,concourse is three times as wide(good thing),bathrooms half the size and not as many,standing room party areas......suck ,more drunks to deal with that distract from the game.
Old Giants stadium was a great place to watch a game ,yet the owners now will pocket more money with this place.....hell with the fan.

Re: Handful of Owners Resisting Parameters of New Deal
 

Gotta admit, Lincoln Financial Field is a VERY NICE facility. Was there a couple of weekends ago for a Monster Jam event.

The people in it however...