Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

Kinda an offseason topic to talk about, but it was on my mind after looking at the players contracts so I figure I'd bring it up. Fred Davis's contract is up at season's end. Cooley has two more years left with a pretty sizeable cap number. I say we trade Cooley for whatever we can (4th/5th rounder probs considering he will be 30 next season) at seasons end and extend Davis. Davis has been a pretty shitty backup IMO, but when Cooley went down, Davis filled in great. I think its a mental thing where when he knows he's the guy he plays better. I believe Davis is a capable starting TE and I love the pats theory of trading players before they lose value. Always rebuilding leads to always having a strong team.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

Just be sure to include in Davis' contract extension that he MUST purchase at least two alarm clocks so he always has one as a back-up... :sleep:

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=skinster;823505]Kinda an offseason topic to talk about, but it was on my mind after looking at the players contracts so I figure I'd bring it up. Fred Davis's contract is up at season's end. Cooley has two more years left with a pretty sizeable cap number. I say we trade Cooley for whatever we can (4th/5th rounder probs considering he will be 30 next season) at seasons end and extend Davis. [COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"] Davis has been a pretty shitty backup IMO, but when Cooley went down, Davis filled in great.[/SIZE][/COLOR] I think its a mental thing where when he knows he's the guy he plays better. I believe Davis is a capable starting TE and I love the pats theory of trading players before they lose value. Always rebuilding leads to always having a strong team.[/quote]

That made no sense.....

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;823506]Just be sure to include in Davis' contract extension that he MUST purchase at least two alarm clocks so he always has one as a back-up... :sleep:[/quote]

Man that one time incident has just become an endless joke hasn't it

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;823507]That made no sense.....[/quote]

He's saying that when FD has to share the responsibility, he's essentially the #2 to Cooley and he struggles. But whenever Cooley has been out and Davis knows he's the man, then he shines

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=SmootSmack;823509]Man that one time incident has just become an endless joke hasn't it[/quote]

3 years and people still won't forget it.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

I agree with trading Cooley. This would've been the ideal offseason to do it, lockout notwhithstanding. Paulsen is a very capable #2 TE and with Sellers being worked at TE to utilize Young and Keiland at FB it would've been a smooth transition. Cooley's trade value will drop if this season is plagued by this knee problem he has now. At that point, he's likely to be cut if his cap figure is too high or renegotiate.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

Cooley definitely would have some value in a trade, but this knee issue is not helping. Davis is one of the few real playmakers we have on offense, so I'd really like to see him on the field a lot this year. I'd love to keep both guys indefinitely, but given the moves Shanny has made lately, I wouldn't be surprised is he stuck with the younger guy in Davis at season's end.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

That trade value window expired 2 years ago really with Cooley's injuries. He's more valuable to keep at this point unless he'd net us a 2nd rounder which I highly doubt.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=NC_Skins;823521]That trade value window expired 2 years ago really with Cooley's injuries. He's more valuable to keep at this point unless he'd net us a 2nd rounder which I highly doubt.[/quote]

I'm talking 1 year down the road, when Davis's contract expires. A 30 year old TE with injury issues and a high cap number doesn't have alot of value to us at all. One, maybe two more productive years out of him after this next one at most. Davis should be the future IMO, and next year I think we should make him the full starter.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

I don't really see CC having a ton of trade value, even if healthy. Maybe a late round pick at best. I'd rather just keep him til his contract runs out.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Mattyk;823535]I don't really see CC having a ton of trade value, even if healthy. Maybe a late round pick at best. I'd rather just keep him til his contract runs out.[/quote]Agree. And with Cooley's lingering knee, there won't be a "secret" about Davis' skill level when he hits free agency after this year. He's going to be properly valued by (a weak) market, which means that if we don't pay him like a starter, the New York Giants probably will.

Which, if we decide he has too many holes in his game to be elite, might not be such a horrible thing.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=skinster;823534]I'm talking 1 year down the road, when Davis's contract expires. A 30 year old TE with injury issues and a high cap number doesn't have alot of value to us at all. One, maybe two more productive years out of him after this next one at most. Davis should be the future IMO, and next year I think we should make him the full starter.[/quote]To piggyback on this point, the market seems to have decided that age 31 is the point where organizational lifer TEs (Cooley, Heap, Shockey, or anyone who wasn't Gates or Gonzalez in their primes) are being allowed to test the market instead of eating up a lot of cap space in their prime years.

Cooley is 29 now, and he's signed for three more years. He'll probably play out all three of those seasons. But the big news here is that perhaps Cooley isn't going to be a lifelong Redskin and that he'll play out his career elsewhere after this deal is done or gets too pricey.

We need Cooley for this season, and have to get him healthy soon. After that, we might choose to get younger and faster as an organization, and Davis might make more sense.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

That's the thing guys; there's no market for tight ends right now. Everyone who needed one has one, and no one's going to trade much for him. Trading him for a 4th or 5th round pick is silly. His value, at least in theory, is higher than that, and you don't trade a productive player like Cooley (and he is productive) for less than market value just because.

You trade him while he's hot. He's not hot right now.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

cooley's a fan favorite, but i'd be very happy trading him for a late round pick. i certainly think we need to get rid of him, one way or another, before next season. Fred Davis is younger, more explosive, and more durable. He's the future at the position and we need to lock him up.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=SmootSmack;823509]Man that one time incident has just become an endless joke hasn't it[/quote]

Only one time with the Redskins but Davis was well-known to be "schedule-challenged" all through his collegiate days...

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

I think it's time to put the alarm clock issue to bed. He hasn't had any additional incidents since his rookie year has he?

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Mattyk;823535]I don't really see CC having a ton of trade value, even if healthy. Maybe a late round pick at best. I'd rather just keep him til his contract runs out.[/quote]

I don't know. BA is a wizard when it comes to trades. I'm sure if he wanted to trade Cooley he could at least get a third.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;823555]cooley's a fan favorite, but i'd be very happy trading him for a late round pick. i certainly think we need to get rid of him, one way or another, before next season. Fred Davis is younger, more explosive, and more durable. He's the future at the position and we need to lock him up.[/quote]

Fred also has trouble blocking on a consistent basis, and you don't jettison productive players for late round compensation unless you're absolutely sure they can no longer contribute in a meaningful manner.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;823564]I don't know. BA is a wizard when it comes to trades. I'm sure if he wanted to trade Cooley he could at least get a third.[/quote]Part of Bruce Allen's wizardry, okay, all of it, involves not setting unrealistic expectations for a return in the trade. Getting two 6ths for McNabb's contract was wizardry. But the real magic was getting McNabb to sign the contract in the first place. Fletcher Smith had to be duped into thinking McNabb had a future here.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;823557]Only one time with the Redskins but Davis was well-known to be "schedule-challenged" all through his collegiate days...[/quote]

He seems to have an alarm clock problem only once at each level... he missed the flight to the Orange Bowl, so Carroll didn't let him come to Miami. He slept through one of his first practices as a Skin and was reprimanded. Davis never let it happened again for either squad.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=NLC1054;823566]Fred also has trouble blocking on a consistent basis, and you don't jettison productive players for late round compensation unless you're absolutely sure they can no longer contribute in a meaningful manner.[/quote]

He sealed the end several times Friday night blocking. I was like who is that WR playing up on the line...? Fred Davis wow, guy is skinny.

I agree with not getting rid of Cooley BUT I fully support, in a rebuilding effort, to give FD much more reps with the starters and more playing time.

I think Davis is ready to be a full time starter and can contribute now in this offense. I woulda like to have seen him get get underneath throw from Rex when he instead went to incomplete to Stallworth. He woulda gotten inside the 10 yard line, he had alot of space.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;823564]I don't know. BA is a wizard when it comes to trades. I'm sure if he wanted to trade Cooley he could at least get a third.[/quote]

a 3rd?

[IMG]http://movievaults.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Puff-Puff-Pass.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Mattyk;823584]a 3rd?

[IMG]http://movievaults.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Puff-Puff-Pass.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

I like the line at the bottom, "with friends like these, who needs needs rehab"

i dont know who gonna give a 3rd round for a TE who is currently getting his knee drained.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Mattyk;823584]a 3rd?
[/quote]


Bro, it worked for me. Even got another player in return.


[IMG]http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/1352771/hilliscover_large.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

For the last time. We are not trading Cooley.

That's my only gameday jersey.

Therefore Cooley is untouchable.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

Other than Portis at times, CC and Moss have been the only "franchise name" players we've had. We at least owe it to him to let him finish his contract out here. When Santanna was dropping passes, and we didn't have anyone else, he was the ONLY spark we had at times. Keep him for this year, and if he has a monster year, bring this thread backup. Trading him now, with little or no value would be crazy, and probably have huge effects on the locker room.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

Fred is ballin apparently

Im down to trade cc. Been ready for the last few seasons. Sell high buy low.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

how about this crazy idea .... work Cooley & Davis into the fold .... wow what an idea ... you would really give up on Cooley for a late round pick ? Give me a break, that guy has been nothing but a true Redskins through and through .... i like the chemistry of this team and I think bringing back Moss and keeping Cooley are wise moves .... this league is about DEPTH plain and simple ... if we have to pay Davis bank then WE will, if you haven't noticed we are way under the cap and can def do that next year ... relax .. they will both shine

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;823605]how about this crazy idea .... work Cooley & Davis into the fold .... wow what an idea ... you would really give up on Cooley for a late round pick ? Give me a break, that guy has been nothing but a true Redskins through and through .... i like the chemistry of this team and I think bringing back Moss and keeping Cooley are wise moves .... this league is about DEPTH plain and simple ... if we have to pay Davis bank then WE will, if you haven't noticed we are way under the cap and can def do that next year ... relax .. they will both shine[/quote]

I'd prefer to lose him before he turns bad then keep him after he is past his prime. Championship teams have a tendency to have that mentality, and I like to copy winners. Might as well get something in return while we still can (if we still can).
But I think that someone will pay for Davis to start. Davis will not stick around if Cooley is still here. I'm sure he is not content playing second fiddle. I think it's cooley or davis next year, both isnt an option we can take. I choose davis.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

that's fine for next year ... don't get me wrong I think Fred Davis is a BEAST but don't underestimate Cooley's character ... if he's banged up all year maybe he doesn't mind a little second fiddle action a la Olson & Shockey down in Carolina

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=skinster;823607]I'd prefer to lose him before he turns bad then keep him after he is past his prime. Championship teams have a tendency to have that mentality, and I like to copy winners. Might as well get something in return while we still can (if we still can).
But I think that someone will pay for Davis to start. Davis will not stick around if Cooley is still here. I'm sure he is not content playing second fiddle. [B][U] I think it's cooley or davis next year, both isnt an option we can take. I choose davis.[/U][/B][/quote]

you do realize there has been one game of PRESEASON football played thus far and you are saying cooley is done and davis is our starter and we must trade cooley and go with fred davis next year. as long as i haven't missed anything there was only one preseason game thus far, so let's take a second pump the breaks and relax. lets atleast wait until mid season before we have the cooley/davis bs going on yet again. [B]if[/B] this happens to come up further down the road then lets talk about it but for christ sake we are dicussing trading cooley after one preseason game he didn't play in.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

No doubt this thread is junk, you guys are bored already?
Its almost freakin September.
Best depth we've ever had at TE, sit on it FFS.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

I wouldn't call this thread junk. It's a topic that's brought up many times. And it makes sense. You have two skilled players at one position. And it seeems more often than not, they are not using both

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9403737.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=skinster;823505]Kinda an offseason topic to talk about, but it was on my mind after looking at the players contracts so I figure I'd bring it up. Fred Davis's contract is up at season's end. Cooley has two more years left with a pretty sizeable cap number. I say we trade Cooley for whatever we can (4th/5th rounder probs considering he will be 30 next season) at seasons end and extend Davis. Davis has been a pretty shitty backup IMO, but when Cooley went down, Davis filled in great. I think its a mental thing where when he knows he's the guy he plays better. I believe Davis is a capable starting TE and I love the pats theory of trading players before they lose value. Always rebuilding leads to always having a strong team.[/quote]

How is Davis a poor back-up?
You know he had the highest catch rate and 2nd highest YPC on the team?
By DVOA he's a top 5 TE.

But, overall I agree that Cooley should be traded and Davis extended, but they should have traded Cooley last year.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

Anyone else notice how much faster Davis got off the line? He is blazing compared to last year! I expect to see him lineup at WR couple of snaps a game this year.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=Mattyk;823584]a 3rd?

[IMG]http://movievaults.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Puff-Puff-Pass.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

I've seen that movie, it's actually decent. Of course it's not hard to play a stoner though.

As for Cooley and Davis, it makes sense to trade Cooley. We have a surplus, this team isn't exactly stocked at every other position on the roster, and we don't even use both of them. Cooley is getting up there in years and as has been mentioned good teams find good guys like Cooley and flip them for picks while they can still get great value for them. I think if we waited until some team had a tight end that went down in the season and was willing to pay a good price for one, we could easily get a good deal for Cooley. He does need to get healthy first though.

Re: Chris Cooley/Fred Davis
 

[quote=mooby;823626]I've seen that movie, it's actually decent. Of course it's not hard to play a stoner though.

As for Cooley and Davis, it makes sense to trade Cooley. We have a surplus, this team isn't exactly stocked at every other position on the roster, and we don't even use both of them. Cooley is getting up there in years and as has been mentioned good teams find good guys like Cooley and flip them for picks while they can still get great value for them. [B]I think if we waited until some team had a tight end that went down in the season and was willing to pay a good price for one, we could easily get a good deal for Cooley. He does need to get healthy first though[/B].[/quote]

^this makes sense and is what i'm talking about. once a actual situation like this arises then yes the trade talks for cooley should and will start up again, not after he misses his first preseason game.