Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/08/22/11/Deals-are-turning-up-the-Redskins-way/mobile_landing.html?blockID=552240&feedID=272]Deals are turning up the Redskins' way[/url]

[QUOTE]NFL teams used to salivate at the prospect of making a trade with the Washington Redskins. It always seemed that the Redskins would end up getting fleeced every time they played Let’s Make a Deal with other NFL teams. The other party would get the new car and Hawaiian vacation, while there was usually a billy goat behind the door the Redskins would choose.

Since Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen have arrived at Redskins Park, however, things have started to turn around. Although they notably whiffed in trading second- and fourth-round picks for Donovan McNabb, some other deals have worked out much better. Here is a look at the impact deals that Allen and Shanahan have pulled off since arriving in 2010:

QB John Beck from Baltimore for CB Doug Dutch—This trade was executed early in training camp last year. A year later, Beck could well be the Redskins’ starting quarterback. If Beck can be a reasonably competent starting QB—and we won’t know that until midseason at the earliest—the trade of him for Dutch, who has not appeared in an NFL game, would turn out to be a genuine heist. Even if Beck can be a good backup the trade will be a huge success.

OT Jammal Brown from New Orleans for a swap of third- and fifth-round picks—The Redskins were able to get Brown, a former Pro Bowl performer, into their system and he could be primed for a stellar season with a new contract and with his injury woes behind him. The Saints took outside linebacker Martez Wilson out of Illinois with the third-round pick the Redskins gave up while Washington took Nebraska wide receiver Niles Paul with the fifth from the Saints. The trade can be fully evaluated when we see how those picks work out but right now it looks pretty good for the Redskins.

Jabar Gaffney from Denver for Jeremy Jarmon—In exchange for a lineman who could not find a fit in their 3-4 defense, the Redskins got a 30-year-old receiver who had career highs in both receptions (65) and yards (875) for the Broncos last year. Gaffney immediately moved into the starting lineup and he will contribute while some of the younger receivers on the team learn the game.

Tim Hightower from Arizona for Vonnie Holliday and an undisclosed draft pick—Holliday would have had a difficult time making the roster. Hightower has proven to be a quick study on the Washington offense and he has displayed a good knack for making the cut into the running lane. He will probably start at running back for the Redskins. Assuming that the draft pick is in the late rounds, this was an excellent deal for the Redskins.

The 16th overall pick in the 2011 draft (Ryan Kerrigan) from Jacksonville for the 10th overall pick (Blaine Gabbert)—The Redskins also received the Jaguars second-round pick, the 49th overall, in this trade. After taking Kerrigan, who is showing great promise at outside linebacker, the Redskins parlayed that second-rounder into a number of other picks. They went into the draft with eight picks, none in the third or fourth rounds and six of the picks coming in round five through seven. They ended up with 12 selections with at least one in every round. The fruits of the trade included wide receiver Leonard Hankerson and running back Roy Helu, who could be key cogs in the offense for years to come.[/QUOTE]

Other than the mcnabb debacle, shanahan and Allen have done an outstanding job. I especially like that we essentially traded the overrated gabbert for THREE players who are likely to contribute greatly to this team: Kerrigan, hankerson, and helu.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

It's been a FUN offseason (lockout notwithstanding). The Draft and subsequent FA acquisitions have been solid if not inspired.....
Time will tell....very happy with these guys in this arena! For the first time in years are we building quality depth and starting talent as well.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Tandler forgot to mention the trade for Carriker, who is turning out to be a good 3-4 DE. He cost us a 5th rounder, no? Also a good trade.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

And trading haynesworth for, well, ANYTHING.

There is no real arguing that shanahan and Allen have made far more good moves than bad.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=Lotus;825838]Tandler forgot to mention the trade for Carriker, who is turning out to be a good 3-4 DE. He cost us a 5th rounder, no? Also a good trade.[/quote]

Not even a 5th rounder. We just swapped picks if I remember correctly.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

He mentioned Carriker later in another post. Trade got us Austin too

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

The next big value trade?????

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/22/trade-or-release-talk-surfaces-for-tebow/]Trade-or-release talk surfaces for Tebow | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Earlier from Redskins Insider:

"I like everything about him," Shanahan said. "If you can't root for a guy like Tebow, man, you don't like your [own] kids."

"Here's a guy to me that brings everything to the table. He'll interview with 30 people, work out for everybody [and] when you're with him, he's just an off-the-chart guy," Shanahan said. "Those guys don't come around all the time. Especially with the success that he's had."

"I just think he's something that's very special," he added.

"I think what everybody was looking at from the Senior Bowl was where he dropped the ball below his waist," Shanahan said. "I think he's doing a great job keeping the ball up high, and I think everybody saw that at his workout."

"When Phillip Rivers came out, everybody said he didn't have the perfect throwing motion, the perfect release. At least in my opinion, [Rivers'] is one of the best in the business; he's in the top three or four," he said. "Sometimes you've got to be able to play the game. You can dissect everybody's game, but the bottom line is how he plays and how he gets it done."

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mike-shanahan/mike-shanahan-on-tim-tebow-hes.html]Redskins Insider - Mike Shanahan on Tim Tebow: 'He's something that's very special'[/url]


Im just kidding.....

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

GMScud would die

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

honestly I'd take Tebow for a 4th

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

As crazy as that sounds, I'd take Tebow for a fourth too. It'd be akin to a Jason Campbell for Tim Tebow trade, and nobody would be able to convince me that JC would ever have more potential than Tebow does. Still though I think that'd be highly unlikely to happen, mainly because I doubt they'd give up Tebow for a fourth. But if Shanny liked him I could easily see us inquiring about his availability.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;825869]honestly I'd take Tebow for a 4th[/quote]

What would you do with him? (I'd ask GMScud...but this is a family friendly site)

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=SmootSmack;825872]What would you do with him? (I'd ask GMScud...but this is a family friendly site)[/quote]

Well, we are thin at the tight end position...

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=mbedner3420;825850]Not even a 5th rounder. We just swapped picks if I remember correctly.[/quote]

You are correct, making that trade even sweeter.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=mooby;825871]As crazy as that sounds, I'd take Tebow for a fourth too. It'd be akin to a Jason Campbell for Tim Tebow trade, and nobody would be able to convince me that JC would ever have more potential than Tebow does. Still though I think that'd be highly unlikely to happen, mainly because I doubt they'd give up Tebow for a fourth. But if Shanny liked him I could easily see us inquiring about his availability.[/quote]I would expect Tebow to enjoy a Campbell-like career path. Their winning SEC resumes were similar, and they're both more accurate than anyone gives them credit for. But play within the pocket is...an adventure every time.

I like Tebow as a pro player. But I think all the talk about needing to make him play differently than he currently does hurts his biggest asset: his youth. He's probably the third best QB on the Broncos right now, but the difference between one and three just isn't that much. Tebow should be playing.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;825878]I would expect Tebow to enjoy a Campbell-like career path. Their winning SEC resumes were similar, and they're both more accurate than anyone gives them credit for. But play within the pocket is...an adventure every time.

I like Tebow as a pro player. But I think all the talk about needing to make him play differently than he currently does hurts his biggest asset: his youth. He's probably the third best QB on the Broncos right now, but the difference between one and three just isn't that much. Tebow should be playing.[/quote]

Passing wise I think Tebow has plenty to improve on, but you can't discount the ability to improvise and be an asset in the run game as well. Tebow is head and shoulders above JC in that department. I tend to think with the right coaching and scheme in place Tebow would have a much higher ceiling than Campbell. And Tebow does have that playmaker factor going for him.

He just has the ability to make things happen, and I don't think that's something that can be coached. Like I said with coaching Tebow could be dangerous. With Campbell, I can see him being an effective game manager in the right scheme with the right coaching, but I don't think he is a playmaker in the Tebow mold. Either way, there's a lot of intangibles that have to fall in place to make a great quarterback, so for the present we'll just have to see if things shake out in Tebow's favor for the future.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=mooby;825891]Passing wise I think Tebow has plenty to improve on, but you can't discount the ability to improvise and be an asset in the run game as well. Tebow is head and shoulders above JC in that department. I tend to think with the right coaching and scheme in place Tebow would have a much higher ceiling than Campbell. And Tebow does have that playmaker factor going for him.

He just has the ability to make things happen, and I don't think that's something that can be coached. Like I said with coaching Tebow could be dangerous. With Campbell, I can see him being an effective game manager in the right scheme with the right coaching, but I don't think he is a playmaker in the Tebow mold. Either way, there's a lot of intangibles that have to fall in place to make a great quarterback, so for the present we'll just have to see if things shake out in Tebow's favor for the future.[/quote]Everything you've said is true, and it's true because he's young. But time on the bench re-working his mechanics isn't going to make him younger.

I don't think Tebow profiles as an NFL "playmaker". He doesn't have the improvisational skills to create things. But his running definitely adds value that you can't get with, say, Kyle Orton. Or John Beck.

Offensive coaches are driven nuts by scrambling quarterbacks though, so Tebow will always be fighting the same uphill battle for playing time that Tony Romo and Vince Young have had. Even relative success wont keep his employers happy.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;825878]I would expect Tebow to enjoy a Campbell-like career path. Their winning SEC resumes were similar, and they're both more accurate than anyone gives them credit for. But play within the pocket is...an adventure every time.

I like Tebow as a pro player. But I think all the talk about needing to make him play differently than he currently does hurts his biggest asset: his youth. He's probably the third best QB on the Broncos right now, but the difference between one and three just isn't that much. Tebow should be playing.[/quote]

No kidding. Especially for that team. They're not reasonably a threat this year with any of those three at QB. Might as well throw him into the fire and see what happens. I don't get it. Dummies for getting themselves into a situation where they HAVE to play Orton even though it really gives them no tangible benefit other than possibly winning an extra game or three.
"Congrats! By playing your 'best' QB you've won an extra 2 games to raise your record to 7-9 and miss the playoffs anyways. No worries though..you only dropped your draft position by 7." Play Tebow make him prove he can or can't play. Or better yet...fix your offense to use him in a way that might be successful.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;825893]Everything you've said is true, and it's true because he's young. But time on the bench re-working his mechanics isn't going to make him younger.

I don't think Tebow profiles as an NFL "playmaker". He doesn't have the improvisational skills to create things. But his running definitely adds value that you can't get with, say, Kyle Orton. Or John Beck.

Offensive coaches are driven nuts by scrambling quarterbacks though, so Tebow will always be fighting the same uphill battle for playing time that Tony Romo and Vince Young have had. Even relative success wont keep his employers happy.[/quote]

Beck isn't a half bad scrambler.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;825893]Everything you've said is true, and it's true because he's young. [B]But time on the bench re-working his mechanics isn't going to make him younger.[/B]

I don't think Tebow profiles as an NFL "playmaker". He doesn't have the improvisational skills to create things. But his running definitely adds value that you can't get with, say, Kyle Orton. Or John Beck.

Offensive coaches are driven nuts by scrambling quarterbacks though, so Tebow will always be fighting the same uphill battle for playing time that Tony Romo and Vince Young have had. Even relative success wont keep his employers happy.[/quote]

Got that right. I'm also curious to see how Tebow looks in practice. I tend to think there might be some truth that he plays much better than he practices, but if he doesn't practice good he's gonna have a hard enough time convincing the coaches he should play.

As for that playmaker comment, I should clarify. I don't think he's a playmaker in the Daunte Culpepper or McNabb in his prime mode, as his passing game is definitely not on the level that theirs' were, but he has that extra dimension with his feet, and he can definitely make things happen in that regard. But he's not going to be able to lean on that to succeed in the NFL though, because this is a pass first league, and the games that he will be able to win solely through his ground success will be far and few between.

I think he's just stuck in a bad spot right now, and I don't see him succeeding in Denver. He's stuck with a coach that never made an investment in him, and clearly doesn't feel like he's the clear cut best option that'll win games for him, so it looks like he's going to be stuck on the bench for the foreseeable future, unless of course someone gives them a trade offer they can't refuse (doubtful, unless they're willing to take a low round draft pick).

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=FRPLG;825896]Beck isn't a half bad scrambler.[/quote]Well, I should clarify. I was specifically talking about players who can turn the corner on an NFL linebacker if it's the difference between 4th and 3 and a 1st and 10. The pool of QBs who can run up the middle through open space after completing a progression is much, much bigger than the group I was lumping Tebow in.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

the lower the dollar figure, the safer the trade.
we didn't do any insane contracts this year... maybe bowen or cofield were slightly overpaid, but that's a helluva lot better than sinking $100mill into a complete bum.

the draft picks basically play for free and our vet signings/trades (jabar, donte, fox, etc) add a lot of top-53 value and are almost free too (well, our top-22 was really weak last year, so a lot of improvement has happened there too).

I mean, joey galloway would be, at best, the 8th best WR on this team. larry johnson might be the 6th best running back if he were here now.

that's improvement.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=mlmpetert;825860]The next big value trade?????

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/22/trade-or-release-talk-surfaces-for-tebow/]Trade-or-release talk surfaces for Tebow | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Earlier from Redskins Insider:

"I like everything about him," Shanahan said. "If you can't root for a guy like Tebow, man, you don't like your [own] kids."


"I just think he's something that's very special," he added.



[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/mike-shanahan/mike-shanahan-on-tim-tebow-hes.html]Redskins Insider - Mike Shanahan on Tim Tebow: 'He's something that's very special'[/url]

[/quote]


Bro. Shanny likes blowing smoke up people's asses, but let me quote you what his son (and most likely he) actually think.


[quote][url=http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/nfl-scouts-scrutinizing-former-florida-quarterback-tim-tebow/1068154]NFL scouts scrutinizing former Florida quarterback Tim Tebow - St. Petersburg Times[/url]

"If you draft him thinking you're going to correct (the flaws), then you're wrong," said Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, a former Bucs assistant. "I think it's going to be just as much up to him as the team that takes him. … If he's better at one thing than another, then you better figure out how to work that into your offense.

"If you draft him and think you're going to do what you've been doing all along, you're probably going to be getting him ready for the next coach who's going to replace you." [/quote]


So we know that's a no-go on Tebow.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Sorry to ruin your thread BHA....[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The trades, draft picks, contracts and type of players we've gone after have been my favorite thing of the Allen/Shanny tenure, for the most part. I think when you talk about trades you cant forget to leave out McNabb. Overall ive never been happier with the administrative side of whats going on in the organization. Its only been a year and a half but it seems to be the new mantra around here and hopefully it continues. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Not only are trades usually going our way now, but contracts are much more reasonable, this past draft was excellent, and all of a sudden we seem to have youth and depth everywhere. What a refreshing change from the past 10 years or so.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Trades that look good during the exhibition season sometimes work out and sometimes do not. That is reality...

Yes, some of the trades look good so far but let us not get too carried away with the analysis just yet.

1. The John Beck for Doug Dutch trade MIGHT be akin to a bank heist - - IF John Beck really is the Skins' starting QB AND IF in that role as the starting QB he produces a winning record. If Beck is the starter and the team is 4-12, maybe that wasn't such a great trade. If Beck carries a clipboard for 15 games this year, this is not a great trade but it would be "advantage Skins". Wait a bit on this one...


2. Jamaal Brown was hardly a difference maker last year playing on a horrible offensive line. Wait to see how he plays this year. If he is a serviceable OT, then the Skins got the better of that deal unless Martez Wilson somehow morphs into the second coming of Lawrence Taylor. (Highly unlikely...)


3. Jabar Gaffney for Jeramy Jarmon? Ho-hum...


4. Tim Hightower for Vonnie Holliday was a GREAT trade for the Skins. I said on another thread that Hightower has the potential - - barring injury - - to be the best Redskins' RB since John Riggins and I continue to believe that.


5. Kerrigan has looked OK so far but still has a lot to show in order to be a difference maker. I did not like Gabbert coming out of college so of course I think the trade is a good one right now - - assuming that Gabbert is a flop. But assuming he will be a flop based on the evidence to date is no more rational than thinking John Beck will be a star QB based on the evidence to date. Time to sit back and wait to make a final judgment.


6. Helu looks like an NFL player so far. Hankerson looks like a guy with good college stats who has not yet grasped what it means to play on Sundays. Projecting both as important cogs in the Skins' offense for years to come is premature.


7. Best trade of all was Haynesworth for a 5th round pick. That was like taking your garbage bag back to the super market and having them give you a bag of pretzels and a six pack in return...

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Ho-hum on Gaffney? We traded a guy that wasn't going to make our team anyway and got a solid #2 WR in return. I think that move had win written all over it.

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[quote=Mattyk;826088]Ho-hum on Gaffney? We traded a guy that wasn't going to make our team anyway and got a solid #2 WR in return. I think that move had win written all over it.[/quote]

If Gaffney is a threat as a WR here, the Skins probably got the best of the deal - - assuming Jarmon does not light it up in Denver. However, Gaffney has been around for a long time without ever being more than just a guy at WR.

I'd love to be in the position of underestimating him...

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;826091]If Gaffney is a threat as a WR here, the Skins probably got the best of the deal - - assuming Jarmon does not light it up in Denver. However, Gaffney has been around for a long time without ever being more than just a guy at WR.

I'd love to be in the position of underestimating him...[/quote]

I'd call him a little more than just a guy, especially the past 2 seasons... he's caught 119 balls for 1607 yards. Pretty solid #2 numbers.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=Mattyk;826094]I'd call him a little more than just a guy, especially the past 2 seasons... he's caught 119 balls for 1607 yards. Pretty solid #2 numbers.[/quote]

If Gaffney ends up being our #2 guy (which he almost certainly will be), it is still a good trade b/c Jarmon had done nothing and really struggled in the 3-4

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=GTripp0012;825878]I would expect Tebow to enjoy a Campbell-like career path. Their winning SEC resumes were similar, and they're both more accurate than anyone gives them credit for. But play within the pocket is...an adventure every time.

I like Tebow as a pro player. But I think all the talk about needing to make him play differently than he currently does hurts his biggest asset: his youth. [B] He's probably the third best QB on the Broncos right now,[/B] but the difference between one and three just isn't that much. Tebow should be playing.[/quote]

I was going to jokingly remind you that I've said a couple of times this spring that Adam Weber is not someone to sleep on...but then I decided not to...and then I saw this

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_denver_broncos_quarterbacks_082311]Project Tebow: Savior's wings get clipped - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Ouch... 4th best on the roster? Tebow has a long way to go. He's a pretty big project considering he was a 1st rounder.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Tim Tebow pick was a joke nice guy but way to high 3rd or 4th round pick yes but 1st please. Ain't mad at TT if you pick me in the 1st thanks.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;826106]If Gaffney ends up being our #2 guy (which he almost certainly will be), it is still a good trade b/c Jarmon had done nothing and really struggled in the 3-4[/quote]

Perhaps he is suggesting that since Jarmon was a 3rd round draft pick that Gaffney for a 3rd is ho hum?

PS...I like Gaffney!
and...I do think Jarmon has potential on a 4-3

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

This article is dumb. It's making the argument (as seen in the title of the article) that the Redskins have recently been making successful trades, but the argument is predicated on the idea that the players [I]will[/I] be successful.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Well, it's just evaluating things as of right now, of course the ultimate judgment of these deals is yet to come.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=Coff;826401]This article is dumb. It's making the argument (as seen in the title of the article) that the Redskins have recently been making successful trades, but the argument is predicated on the idea that the players [I]will[/I] be successful.[/quote]


Yeah I agree there were a lot [I]if's[/I] in that article but I would say they have all been low risk high reward expect for the McNabb trade which was a big risk with high reward.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;826091]If Gaffney is a threat as a WR here, the Skins probably got the best of the deal - - assuming Jarmon does not light it up in Denver. However, Gaffney has been around for a long time without ever being more than just a guy at WR.

I'd love to be in the position of underestimating him...[/quote]

It doesn't matter what Jarmon does in Denver. I like Jarmon a lot but he did not fit our system and was not going to contribute here. So even if Gaffney is "just a guy," that's likely more than Jarmon was going to be for us. If Gaffney produces and Jarmon produces, that's a win-win for both teams.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

[quote=skinsnut;826350]Perhaps he is suggesting that since Jarmon was a 3rd round draft pick that Gaffney for a 3rd is ho hum?

PS...I like Gaffney!
and...I do think Jarmon has potential on a 4-3[/quote]

That may be but in the big scheme of things, to me personally, I don't care if our production comes from 1st rounders or from UFAs as long as there is production and the skins are successful. One possible argument is that for a certain pick there is a certain salary and therefore certain expectations -- problem is, I don't care, I'm not paying that guy's salary and whether or not they pay some guy an outrageous signing bonus is not going to make an appreciable difference in my life.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

I just realized that Jeremy Jarmon, did not make the roster in Denver. It has probably already been said, but I have not seen it. I thought I would pass it along, so we can have another feel good moment. Also, we got Adam Carricker, by swapping our 5th round draft choice for theirs. A starter for a swapped 5th rounder and a starting receiver for a player that did not make the team. It looks like our front office is making up for years of stupidity, quickly.

Re: Trades of the Shanahan era
 

Rams are missing WR's now.. I bet we could make a move with Stallworth to them.