QB needy teams
 

I was looking at the 2012 draft (no I haven't given up on the season, I just like looking at the future), and I was seeing the probability of one of the top 3 qb prospects dropping to us.

Most teams with qb issues recently took a guy that should be their future very recently.

The only possible teams I see that I would assume draft a qb if he is there are the dolphins (definitely going to) and the seahawks.

Currently, the teams that would seriously entertain the idea are the colts (Manning's successor) and the chiefs (cassell doing it?)

Then there are the longshots in the Browns (McCoy the answer?), the Cardinals (if they do poorly enough), the Broncos (Tebow's play will determine), and the Bills (if they start to self destruct).

The point of this thread is really to gauge if the skins have a shot at drafting a qb next year. Yes I know there is alot to be determined, but that's why it's called gauging a prediction.

I say that unless someone underrated that we really like is there, or another Aaron Rodgers incident happens, we won't be in a position to get a guy of the future. Grossman clearly isn't that, and Beck at 29 is the backup to grossman. That doesn't inspire alot of confidence from the coaches in Beck. Not to say that these guys aren't adequate for now, but just that it would be unwise to plan to have them as our franchise qb of the future. I'd think its safe to assume that we'll be hoping to land a franchise qb this offseason. The wildcard imo is matt flynn who is a FA (possibly restricted though) and apparently is doing great as the backup to rodgers.

Re: QB needy teams
 

I understand your logic here but we talk about QB's in every thread.. I'll say that this draft is a good looking QB class BUT it is always a crap shoot.. Luck is Bradford like so he'll be great.. The others are ?s I've watched ev game of Landry Jones career and he's a solid QB but not even close to Luck or Bradford not even Newton. Weedon out of OKST is already 26 or 27 years old so I dont want him.. Then who else is left? Foles from Arizona maybe?

I also don't see us having a shot bcuz I think we will win 8-9 games this season

Re: QB needy teams
 

The QB market is going to flood next year, in part because it was so weak this year that we inflated the stock of guys like Kaepernick, Dalton, Locker, etc. Newton and Gabbert would have been no. 1s in any year, but the rest of the draft got inflated. And because those guys are all still high picks, the fact that Campbell, Henne, Orton, Flynn, Hanie, etc are all going to be free agents and that the 2012 QB draft class is one of the strongest in recent memory.

So anyone who needs a quarterback can one way cheaper than in 2010 or 2011. In other words, Beck v Grossman is not relevant.

Re: QB needy teams
 

I agree with Tripp, Beck and Grossman are in the past for skins fans after 2011 UNLESS Beck is a true baller

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849069]I understand your logic here but we talk about QB's in every thread.. I'll say that this draft is a good looking QB class BUT it is always a crap shoot.. Luck is Bradford like so he'll be great.. The others are ?s I've watched ev game of Landry Jones career and he's a solid QB but not even close to Luck or Bradford not even Newton. Weedon out of OKST is already 26 or 27 years old so I dont want him.. Then who else is left? Foles from Arizona maybe?

[B]I also don't see us having a shot bcuz I think we will win 8-9 games this season[/B][/quote]

So if we lose most of our games the rest of this season then maybe we have a shot in the draft. Hmmmm, maybe we should keep Rex in...

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=44ever;849076]So if we lose most of our games the rest of this season then maybe we have a shot in the draft. Hmmmm, maybe we should keep Rex in...[/quote]

If Rex starts Sunday IDK what I'll do

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinster;849067]I was looking at the 2012 draft (no I haven't given up on the season, I just like looking at the future), and I was seeing the probability of one of the top 3 qb prospects dropping to us.

Most teams with qb issues recently took a guy that should be their future very recently.

The only possible teams I see that I would assume draft a qb if he is there are the dolphins (definitely going to) and the seahawks.

Currently, the teams that would seriously entertain the idea are the colts (Manning's successor) and the chiefs (cassell doing it?)

Then there are the longshots in the Browns (McCoy the answer?), the Cardinals (if they do poorly enough), the Broncos (Tebow's play will determine), and the Bills (if they start to self destruct).

The point of this thread is really to gauge if the skins have a shot at drafting a qb next year. Yes I know there is alot to be determined, but that's why it's called gauging a prediction.

I say that unless someone underrated that we really like is there, or another Aaron Rodgers incident happens, we won't be in a position to get a guy of the future. Grossman clearly isn't that, and Beck at 29 is the backup to grossman. That doesn't inspire alot of confidence from the coaches in Beck. Not to say that these guys aren't adequate for now, but just that it would be unwise to plan to have them as our franchise qb of the future. I'd think its safe to assume that we'll be hoping to land a franchise qb this offseason. [B]The wildcard imo is matt flynn who is a FA (possibly restricted though) and apparently is doing great as the backup to rodgers[/B].[/quote]

Im personally really high on Matt Flynn. I think our offense is pretty simular to GBs and can imagine him working out well for us. I dont think him being restricted really matters since i think hes gonna be pretty highly demanded and it will be too pricey for GB to match the offers he'll get elsewhere.

I dont really agree with most of your long shots but ill add another one to that list that im sure others wont agree with. The Jets. If a QB they like falls to them in the draft i think they will pick him.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=44ever;849076]So if we lose most of our games the rest of this season then maybe we have a shot in the draft. Hmmmm, maybe we should keep Rex in...[/quote]No. He needs to be put in solitary for at least a game or two because he peed himself against Philly. Like I teach my girls, there are consequences for your actions ... and there need to be consequences for Rex's actions here.

He needs a time out.

Re: QB needy teams
 

I like Nick foles and he seems more our eventual draft position

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849079]If Rex starts Sunday IDK what I'll do[/quote]

I'm sure people won't say a pip about Shanahan and continue to b*tch about Rex.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849079]If Rex starts Sunday IDK what I'll do[/quote]

I don't know why, but when I read your post I just started laughing... Probably because I feel the same way.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=44ever;849092]I don't know why, but when I read your post I just started laughing... Probably because I feel the same way.[/quote]


@ Ruhskins- If Rex starts I WILL Bitch about MS

@ 44- Dude it's so scary to see that bum pass I hate watching sometimes. Honestly I never thought I'd say this but give me JC over Rex

Re: QB needy teams
 

Excluding Luck (who will require a mortgage on the Taj Mahal to get), I'm not sure I care too much what our draft position is. Likely we will draft somewhere in the teens anyway. Regardless of where we draft, we should trade whatever is necessary to move up in the draft and get our guy. We need to be very aggressive.

And perhaps we could sign someone like Henne in FA to be a caretaker until our golden rookie is ready.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Lotus;849098]Excluding Luck (who will require a mortgage on the Taj Mahal to get), I'm not sure I care too much what our draft position is. Likely we will draft somewhere in the teens anyway. Regardless of where we draft, we should trade whatever is necessary to move up in the draft and get our guy. We need to be very aggressive.

And perhaps we could sign someone like Henne in FA to be a caretaker until our golden rookie is ready.[/quote]

Beck is better than Henne IMO, have u seen that guy play? LOL

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Lotus;849098]Excluding Luck (who will require a mortgage on the Taj Mahal to get), I'm not sure I care too much what our draft position is. Likely we will draft somewhere in the teens anyway. Regardless of where we draft, we should trade whatever is necessary to move up in the draft and get our guy. We need to be very aggressive.

And perhaps we could sign someone like Henne in FA to be a caretaker until our golden rookie is ready.[/quote]

I don't believe that we will need to be THAT aggressive to draft a QB.. There are few choices, assuming Barkley and Jones (I am not sure if this is right player?) decide to go to NFL instead of staying for their senior year. That is unless the FO have their eyes on one particular QB.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849106]Beck is better than Henne IMO, have u seen that guy play? LOL[/quote]

My main point was about getting a caretaker QB. It doesn't have to be Henne.

But as to your point, we'll see.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849106]Beck is better than Henne IMO, have u seen that guy play? LOL[/quote]You're wrong, and I don't think its that close.

John Beck is what he is. His best shot at holding on as a backup is to stay in Washington with the Shanahans. Who aren't convinced he's a better option than Rex Grossman.

Re: QB needy teams
 

All I know is when we ACTUALLY have a QB I'll be the happiest guy ever.. In my 20 years of being a Skins fan we have never had a Guy to call FRANCHISE. The only QB jersey I ever had was a damn Shuler jersey.. Thanks A lot mom

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849122]You're wrong, and I don't think its that close.

John Beck is what he is. His best shot at holding on as a backup is to stay in Washington with the Shanahans. Who aren't convinced he's a better option than Rex Grossman.[/quote]

Haven't seen enough of Beck so we will see and Henne is not any good at all. Guys like Jason Campbell and Alex Smith are better

Re: QB needy teams
 

Now that we're 6 weeks into the season and we have an ok idea of who the bad teams are and who the good teams are, lets take a look at who might be interested in upgrading at quarterback next year. I'll start by listing all the teams with losing or .500 records at this point.

Winless
[B]Colts[/B] - we can already assume if they end up with the first shot at Luck, they'll take him. And even if he isn't available, they might pick a qb anyways. So yes, they'll prob. look at qbs in the draft this year.
[I]Rams[/I] - No, def. wouldn't take a qb.
[B]Dolphins[/B] - yes, definitely would be interested in a qb. With a new head coach probably on his way in he'd def. want a qb he could mold in his image.


1 win teams -
[I]Jags[/I] - no, don't think they'd take a qb. Too many holes on that team, even if they did think there was a qb out there better than Gabbert, which is doubtful.
[I]Vikings[/I] - again, same thing here. Too many holes, already have Ponder, probably going to stick with him especially if he flashes potential for the rest of the season.
[I]Panthers[/I] - nope. Need defensive help more than anything.
[I]Broncos[/I] - hard call here. I don't think Fox likes Tebow but if Tebow plays well for the rest of the season it'd be hard to see them going qb here, especially since the rest of the team needs help.
[B]Cards[/B] - another tough call. Kolb obviously isn't working out, and I have no idea if Whisenhunt is on a short leash or not. I'll say possibly.


2 win teams -
[B]Chiefs[/B] - Haley looks like a lame duck coach, but they might keep him if he turns it around. Cassel hasn't played nearly as good this year as he did last year, so if a new coach comes in he might want a new qb. Possibly for this team too.
[B]Browns[/B] - idk, tough call here. I don't know too much about how Shurmur and Holmgren feel about McCoy. Possibly?
[B]Seahawks[/B] - I think we can all assume if they were in position to take an elite qb, they'd take him. Especially with Carroll's connections to a guy like Matt Barkley.
[I]Cowboys[/I] - idk here either. Doubtful, but you never know. Another up and down year for Romo, or another crushing playoff loss, and they just might go younger. Again, doubtful imo, but it's hard to get a read here.
[I]Eagles[/I] - do I really need to include them? I think they'll get things on the right track this season, because of their season saving win last week (thanks again, Skins), and they'd probably be wiser to invest in offensive line or linebackers. Vick has played up and down ball this year but he's the least of their problems.


.500 teams
[I]Falcons[/I] - no. Just no.
[B]Texans[/B] - maybe? Schaub certainly isn't their biggest problem. Doubtful but you never know, especially if Kubiak is let go if they go on a downward spiral from here on out.
[I]Jets[/I] - The Sanchize certainly hasn't played up to his draft status this year, but doubtful here too.
[I]Bears[/I] - nah, don't see it happening. QB isn't a need.


So I'll sum it up now.


Teams that need qbs:
[B]Colts[/B], [B]Dolphins[/B]


Possibly:
[B]Broncos[/B], [B]Cardinals[/B], [B]Chiefs[/B], [B]Browns[/B], [B]Seahawks[/B]


Possibly, but doubtful:
[I]Cowboys[/I], [I]Texans[/I]


Leaning toward a heavy no:
[I]Rams[/I], [I]Jaguars[/I], [I]Vikings[/I], [I]Panthers[/I], [I]Eagles[/I], [I]Falcons[/I], [I]Jets[/I], [I]Bears[/I].


This is a very preliminary list, obviously there's 11 weeks left to go, anything can happen, some qb's will play poorly, some will fall out of favor, etc. But some of these qb holes will be filled through free agency, some through trades, and some through the draft. I'm definitely in favor of giving up a few picks if it means we get our guy for the next decade. But I think we should definitely go the draft route. I think I'll bump this thread once the season is over and we have a much more clear idea of draft order and who might want a qb.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=GTripp0012;849074]The QB market is going to flood next year, in part because it was so weak this year that we inflated the stock of guys like Kaepernick, Dalton, Locker, etc. Newton and Gabbert would have been no. 1s in any year, but the rest of the draft got inflated. And because those guys are all still high picks, the fact that Campbell, Henne, Orton, Flynn, Hanie, etc are all going to be free agents and that the 2012 QB draft class is one of the strongest in recent memory.

So anyone who needs a quarterback can one way cheaper than in 2010 or 2011. In other words, Beck v Grossman is not relevant.[/quote]

I don't think its about getting a qb, but getting the right qb. We don't need another Jason Campbell, who is good enough to start somewhere, we need a guy that will put us in a position to win any game given that he has a respectable supporting cast. Using even a 4th rounder on the next Jason Campbell is a waste IMO, idc that he is one of the 32 best qbs in the league, he's not good enough to get the job done.

Getting good value for a starting material qb doesn't mean anything if the qb can't win his team games. The point of this thread isn't to examine if we can get "someone" to play qb for us, but rather if we are able to get the right guy to play qb for us. Unless there are 4 guys in this class that can do it, or someone slips through the cracks, I just don't see it happening.

I'd honestly say half the league does not have the qb that is needed to be able to be a legitimate candidate for a superbowl. Im going to be generous to what I really think and say that there are only roughly 15 guys capable of bringing home their team the lombardi in any given year. Over half of them are taken in the top third of the draft. Another portion are guys that nobody expected to do well. That leaves slim odds that a guy will be there where we are targeting a franchise qb. I've never seen a year where 4 highly touted qbs panned out and I'd say that there are 3 teams that will pick before us that will take a qb. I'd say we just need to get lucky to get one this year, hope to god one slips through the cracks either through teams passing on a guy or by us finding a diamond in the rough.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinster;849140]I don't think its about getting a qb, but getting the right qb. We don't need another Jason Campbell, who is good enough to start somewhere, we need a guy that will put us in a position to win any game given that he has a respectable supporting cast. Using even a 4th rounder on the next Jason Campbell is a waste IMO, idc that he is one of the 32 best qbs in the league, he's not good enough to get the job done.

Getting good value for a starting material qb doesn't mean anything if the qb can't win his team games. The point of this thread isn't to examine if we can get "someone" to play qb for us, but rather if we are able to get the right guy to play qb for us. Unless there are 4 guys in this class that can do it, or someone slips through the cracks, I just don't see it happening.

I'd honestly say half the league does not have the qb that is needed to be able to be a legitimate candidate for a superbowl. Im going to be generous to what I really think and say that there are only roughly 15 guys capable of bringing home their team the lombardi in any given year. Over half of them are taken in the top third of the draft. Another portion are guys that nobody expected to do well. That leaves slim odds that a guy will be there where we are targeting a franchise qb. I've never seen a year where 4 highly touted qbs panned out and I'd say that there are 3 teams that will pick before us that will take a qb. I'd say we just need to get lucky to get one this year, hope to god one slips through the cracks either through teams passing on a guy or by us finding a diamond in the rough.[/quote] When you say that half the league doesn't have a super bowl QB, I think you need to be more specific. Our opinion of QBs changes too violently to say that theres a "can do" group and a "can't do" group. Just look at the Romo debate. There are people out there who think he's a "can never win" guy. But he's better than at least 24 starters in the NFL. So you can't draw a line beyond the top five without taking an opinion on Romo first. And then what do you do with Big Ben, who isn't as good as Romo, but who has won two? My point: you can't make a "can win" and "can't win" group based on quarterbacks and look smart three years from now. Where would you put Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford? Much less a guy like Tebow.

You shouldn't build the QB position any differently than any other position. You just need to find the best guy for what you are trying to do in any given year. Now, if you get it right? Everyone will say that you have a "top ten QB." Now, understand that people in the media (Deion Sanders/Michael Irvin) we're saying seven days ago that the Redskins [B]had the best QB in the division[/B] in Rex Grossman. Understanding that they were a bit inaccurate in their assessment, how can we be so smart about drafting/developing QBs if an honest argument can be made that Grossman is outpacing the rest of the division in production, including one guy who already has a super bowl.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;849127]Haven't seen enough of Beck so we will see and Henne is not any good at all. Guys like Jason Campbell and Alex Smith are better[/quote]But Henne's been better than Sanchez in every year of their careers to date. Should we not expect that to continue after he escapes Miami?

Re: QB needy teams
 

Henne is a guy worth looking at. He's been stuck on some bad offenses.

Re: QB needy teams
 

Well Rex is definitely (I think) gone after this year, and Beck likely returns. The past two years I've heard that we're taking a QB high (1st or 2nd round). Extenuating circumstances have kept that from happening...but of course, I'm hearing it again.

We can't go another year with drafting at least one QB in my opinion.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Mattyk;849155]Henne is a guy worth looking at. He's been stuck on some bad offenses.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Yeah im a Henne sympathizer. Im not sure what type of offense he would be suited for our type of offense by the guy does have skills and has shown he can overcome some pretty crappy situtations. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=mlmpetert;849160][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Yeah im a Henne sympathizer. Im not sure what type of offense he would be suited for our type of offense by the guy does have skills and has shown he can overcome some pretty crappy situtations. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Just on the surface he seems like a possible fit. He's athletic and mobile, big arm, hard working guy, etc.

Re: QB needy teams
 

I didn't think about Flynn, I would trade our 2nd and extra 4th for him in a heartbeat. I know the payday is big as well, but he has proven pretty good, and is ready to step in. I probably would go higher on the compensation as well, but would have to know where we fall in the draft.

Re: QB needy teams
 

So lets say Denver does want to draft a new QB.
Would you trade Orakpo for Tebow?

(not my idea but it got my attention when I first heard it)

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;849175]So lets say Denver does want to draft a new QB.
Would you trade Orakpo for Tebow?

(not my idea but it got my attention when I first heard it)[/quote]

Worst idea ever.

Re: QB needy teams
 

henne's fine, but he's not amazing. JC's fine too, but neither guy is going to quiet the QB debate significantly.

hindsight: we shoulda got drew brees.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;849175]So lets say Denver does want to draft a new QB.
Would you trade Orakpo for Tebow?

(not my idea but it got my attention when I first heard it)[/quote]

absolutely! not. terrible idea.


never trade a pro bowler for a question mark... ever. a great pass rusher is the 2nd hardest thing to find in the NFL (after great QBs, before great LTs).

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;849175]So lets say Denver does want to draft a new QB.
Would you trade Orakpo for Tebow?

(not my idea but it got my attention when I first heard it)[/quote]

I know you are not a troll, but that is a troll bait idea if I have ever heard one. No way you trade away a trusted strength in your team, for a guy who did not flat out win the competition at his spot.

Re: QB needy teams
 

Alex Smith will be a free agent but he's likely returning to SF and in all honesty he doesn't have the best arm. Jason Campbell surprisingly looks like he'll be available...but it won't be here. Josh Johnson is a possibility. But let's see...are there any other QBs out there...anyone we could...chase ;)

No, but seriously I think you go Beck and a rookie for 2012

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=SmootSmack;849196]Alex Smith will be a free agent but he's likely returning to SF and in all honesty he doesn't have the best arm. Jason Campbell surprisingly looks like he'll be available...but it won't be here. Josh Johnson is a possibility. But let's see...are there any other QBs out there...anyone we could...chase ;)

No, but seriously [B]I think you go Beck and a rookie for 2012[/B][/quote]

Yup, and hopefully a rookie that is pro ready and can play sooner rather than later.

Did we have any interest in Dalton in the draft? I forget.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Mattyk;849199]Yup, and hopefully a rookie that is pro ready and can play sooner rather than later.

Did we have any interest in Dalton in the draft? I forget.[/quote]

I think Kyle liked him some, Mike not as much.

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=SmootSmack;849196]Alex Smith will be a free agent but he's likely returning to SF and in all honesty he doesn't have the best arm. Jason Campbell surprisingly looks like he'll be available...but it won't be here. Josh Johnson is a possibility. But let's see...are there any other QBs out there...anyone we could...chase ;)

No, but seriously I think you go Beck and a rookie for 2012[/quote]

Yup. Seems to me it's Flynn, Josh Johnson, or a rookie. I vote for a golden rookie.

Unless Rockytop Crompton leads us to the playoffs this year...

Re: QB needy teams
 

well i imagine orton would be available too, and garrard... the list is so exciting! we can throw boller on there too... he's only failed in 2 or 3 cities so far.

seriously though, we haven't had a good solid qb in the 8-9 years i've been watching the team, so it's about time.

Re: QB needy teams
 

My guess is that we bring in a Qb in F/A , as well as draft one ( rd 1 or 2 ) . I just hope we draft well in the first 4 rds ( 5 picks ) and have a F/A period like this years . I heard on the Radio last night that DE J. Jenkins was walking around Redskins Park and looked like he was ahead of schedule .

Re: QB needy teams
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;849175]So lets say Denver does want to draft a new QB.
Would you trade Orakpo for Tebow?

(not my idea but it got my attention when I first heard it)[/quote]

You dont mean brian orakpo, do you?