North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

Couldnt have happened to a nicer person

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

This is the saddest news I've heard in a long time. And to think North Korea was one of the few places on Earth that was smart enough not to buy into that free speech or civil rights crap. A great man has passed.

[YT]jdug6yHJB40[/YT][YT]tp3bhU-XP-8[/YT]

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

New S. Korean holiday pending.......

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;868831]This is the saddest news I've heard in a long time. And to think North Korea was one of the few places on Earth that was smart enough not to buy into that free speech or civil rights crap. A great man has passed.

[YT]jdug6yHJB40[/YT][YT]tp3bhU-XP-8[/YT][/quote]Damn you Hans Brix, you beat me to it!

Damn, the world's dictators and terrorist leaders are falling into a short supply. Let's hope someone steps up and takes the reins soon so we have another enemy of America to fear.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=mooby;868844]Damn, the world's dictators and terrorist leaders are falling into a short supply. Let's hope someone steps up and takes the reins soon so we have another enemy of America to fear.[/quote]

World leaders are soft. Back in the day they tortured people at a moments notice. These days it's "Ohh hhhh what will the UN think of me. Oh no my political career."

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=mooby;868844]Damn, the world's dictators and terrorist leaders are falling into a short supply. Let's hope someone steps up and takes the reins soon so we have another enemy of America to fear.[/quote]

I thought Kim was grooming his son to be the next international douchebag dictator? I could be totally wrong.

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[YT]s2BjA7B_mpg[/YT]

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

No doubt he is pushing the daises better than human has ever done it. Perhaps in his heaven he can now hit 18 holes in one rather than just 11.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

The great leader will resurrect in 3 days. He is so great he will move the date of Christmas.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

He likes sausage.

[img]http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvdxjr2vPS1qewv1lo1_500.jpg[/img]

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;868855]I thought Kim was grooming his son to be the next international douchebag dictator? I could be totally wrong.[/quote]

Yeah, Kim Jong-un. He could end up being nuttier and nastier than his now-dead dad. Odd as it may sound, we may end up missing Kim Jong-il.

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[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6jRn9.jpg[/IMG]

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[IMG]http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/_archive/Cartoons/ss-111219-jong-il-dead/ss-111219-jong-il-dead-01.grid-9x2.jpg[/IMG]

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=Lotus;868934]Yeah, Kim Jong-un. He could end up being nuttier and nastier than his now-dead dad. Odd as it may sound, we may end up missing Kim Jong-il.[/quote]

Jong-un is 28. While, historically, many dictators have held the reigns of power at a young age, I foresee no genius in Jong-un that would allow him to remain in power. I expect that more experienced party members will use him/undermine him as they attempt to increase their own power. Within a year or two, N. Korea will be a very unstable place. An unstable place with nuclear weapons.

The only reason we will miss Jong-il is that he was the evil we knew. In a few years, N. Korea will be the evil we don't know.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

Ultimately, it's China's call. If Jong-un can win their support and demonstrate he can keep the Korean peninsula stable, he will remain in power. If not, expect China to replace him. The other main player, apparently, is the N. Korean Army, which was the basis of Jong-il's power. If he can satisfy the Army that they will remain preeminent and satisfy China that he will maintain power. If not, someone will replace him who can satisfy those two needs.

What would be bad is if Jong-un ends up being incompetent, is disposed of, and the Army and the Chinese each attempt to install their own person in power.

I am betting Jong-un is gone by 2015. Whether or not a civil war erupts is the question. And, if it does, what role, if any, will NK's burgeoning nuclear arsenal play (Would a crazy general lob a nuke at China? S. Korea? Japan?).

Scary. Just glad there is not a land bridge between here and there.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;869219]Jong-un is 28. While, historically, many dictators have held the reigns of power at a young age, I foresee no genius in Jong-un that would allow him to remain in power. I expect that more experienced party members will use him/undermine him as they attempt to increase their own power. Within a year or two, N. Korea will be a very unstable place. An unstable place with nuclear weapons.

The only reason we will miss Jong-il is that he was the evil we knew. In a few years, N. Korea will be the evil we don't know.[/quote]

[quote=JoeRedskin;869224]Ultimately, it's China's call. If Jong-un can win their support and demonstrate he can keep the Korean peninsula stable, he will remain in power. If not, expect China to replace him. The other main player, apparently, is the N. Korean Army, which was the basis of Jong-il's power. If he can satisfy the Army that they will remain preeminent and satisfy China that he will maintain power. If not, someone will replace him who can satisfy those two needs.

What would be bad is if Jong-un ends up being incompetent, is disposed of, and the Army and the Chinese each attempt to install their own person in power.

I am betting Jong-un is gone by 2015. Whether or not a civil war erupts is the question. And, if it does, what role, if any, will NK's burgeoning nuclear arsenal play (Would a crazy general lob a nuke at China? S. Korea? Japan?).

Scary. Just glad there is not a land bridge between here and there.[/quote]

That's what I'm sayin'. For all of his madness and flaws, Jong-il did not start a major war.

Jong-un, on the other hand, may do so. He may be driven to aggression to consolidate his power within NK or to show he has the cojones to rule or both. And given that he is certainly a spoiled brat who was raised by a madman, we have no reason to think that he will be any more stable or savvy than his dad. And he likely will be less so.

A hostile crazy spoiled brat with nukes. Yay!

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

Great thoughts JoeRedskin and Locus.

If i was S. Korean, or anyone close by, i would be very worried about what the future is going to hold for the region.

Also i watched this documentary a few months back.

[url=http://www.netflix.com/Movie/National-Geographic-Inside-North-Korea/70061970]Netflix - Unlimited TV Shows & Movies Online[/url]

It was very good and you come away with a lot of different thoughts. I personally believe the only way the country could adopt a less totalitarianism type of government is from within, so I think unless we see something happen in the next few years a major change will remain unlikely until Kim Il Sung dies and the reins are again passed on. I guess he could do something real crazy down the road for no apparent reason, but id say that’s highly unlikely.

One of the thoughts I got from the documentary is that the vast majority of people in N Korea are happy the way things are. Not happy in the Western sense but happy nonetheless. It is definitely partly because they don’t know better, but I think the idea of being completely segregated from the rest of the world and self-reliant is a very empowering virtue in their society.

The documentary also made me remember that many (probably the vast majority) of human civilizations throughout history have lived under a similar totalitarianism/authoritarianism style of government controlled by a few rulers/emperors/gods. Societies consisting of unsuppressed people are a relatively new phenomenon and you could probably make the case that humans are meant to be or have evolved to be ruled.

Also last night I remembered my signature:

[I]In my humble opinion I honestly believe that Danny Snyder is not as terrible of a person as Kim Jong il.[/I]

Its now retired. Heres to hoping that Danny will be more terrible than Kim Il Sung (because that means Sung wont be that bad of a guy, right?).

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;869224]Ultimately, it's China's call. If Jong-un can win their support and demonstrate he can keep the Korean peninsula stable, he will remain in power. If not, expect China to replace him. The other main player, apparently, is the N. Korean Army, which was the basis of Jong-il's power. If he can satisfy the Army that they will remain preeminent and satisfy China that he will maintain power. If not, someone will replace him who can satisfy those two needs.

What would be bad is if Jong-un ends up being incompetent, is disposed of, and the Army and the Chinese each attempt to install their own person in power.

I am betting Jong-un is gone by 2015. Whether or not a civil war erupts is the question. And, if it does, what role, if any, will NK's burgeoning nuclear arsenal play (Would a crazy general lob a nuke at China? S. Korea? Japan?).

Scary. Just glad there is not a land bridge between here and there.[/quote]


Joe, just curious, how do you know what China and North Korea will do? You speak with such certainty.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;869296]Joe, just curious, how do you know what China and North Korea will do? You speak with such certainty.[/quote]

I am not certain just speculating based on my understanding of (1) China's historical stance on issues affecting the Korean peninsula and (2) my understanding of the military's role in Kim Jong-il and Kim Sung-il's regimes.

China is N. Korea's only ally and benefactor. I don't remember the numbers but the aid NK receives from China is significant. Essentially, without it, N. Korea's economy would suffer a catastrophic collapse making the recent famine seem like boon times. China supports NK simply b/c, without it, a united Korea under the Republic of Korea (South Korea) places a US/Western ally on their Manchurian border. Essentially, China views NK as a necessary buffer state and that's why they pump resources into it. Based on this, I would expect China to have a significant role in determining the political future of NK.

As to the NK military, it has a 1,000,000 million man army with 8,000,000 active reserve. [url=http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=North-Korea]Military Strength of North Korea[/url]. Additionally, as with most dicatators, it is the Praetorian Guard that made Jong-il's autocratic rule practicable. Given its size and historical role in the regime, I am simply speculating that it has some serious power players within it who will expect a significant voice in the country's affairs.

In addition to all that, my wife's best friend is a NK double agent who keeps me in the know.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;869299]I am not certain just speculating based on my understanding of (1) China's historical stance on issues affecting the Korean peninsula and (2) my understanding of the military's role in Kim Jong-il and Kim Sung-il's regimes.

China is N. Korea's only ally and benefactor. I don't remember the numbers but the aid NK receives from China is significant. Essentially, without it, N. Korea's economy would suffer a catastrophic collapse making the recent famine seem like boon times. China supports NK simply b/c, without it, a united Korea under the Republic of Korea (South Korea) places a US/Western ally on their Manchurian border. Essentially, China views NK as a necessary buffer state and that's why they pump resources into it. Based on this, I would expect China to have a significant role in determining the political future of NK.

As to the NK military, it has a 1,000,000 million man army with 8,000,000 active reserve. [url=http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=North-Korea]Military Strength of North Korea[/url]. Additionally, as with most dicatators, it is the Praetorian Guard that made Jong-il's autocratic rule practicable. Given its size and historical role in the regime, I am simply speculating that it has some serious power players within it who will expect a significant voice in the country's affairs.

In addition to all that, my wife's best friend is a NK double agent who keeps me in the know.[/quote]

You are right about China's stake in NK. But China does not (yet) want NK as a colony so it often coddles NK to maintain an alliance. So the question becomes, how much destruction/nonsense will China put up with before China significantly intervenes?

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

Watching a pretty interesting documentary on National Geographic Channel. Absolute mind-boggling craziness over there when comes to reverence of their Dear Leader.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=Lotus;869316]You are right about China's stake in NK. But China does not (yet) want NK as a colony so it often coddles NK to maintain an alliance. So the question becomes, how much destruction/nonsense will China put up with before China significantly intervenes?[/quote]

I could see the army supporting an aggressive stance towards SK which might, w/out strong leadership from Jong-un, lead to NK going too far. Possibly even threatening to invade. At that point, it's as you say - What would China do?

As you said, crazy kid with nukes. I just don't see anything good coming of this.

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

What the F?


[url=http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/13/10146614-report-six-months-in-labor-camp-for-n-koreans-who-didnt-cry-at-despots-funeral]World News - Report: six months in labor camp for N. Koreans who didn't cry at despot's funeral[/url]

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

he South Korea-based Daily NK newspaper said authorities have held “criticism sessions” for those who “transgressed” during [SIZE=2][B]organized weeping[/B][/SIZE] in the wake of the dictator’s death.

This sounds like something that could catch on at Fedex Field if J. Beck comes back.......

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;875557]What the F?


[url=http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/13/10146614-report-six-months-in-labor-camp-for-n-koreans-who-didnt-cry-at-despots-funeral]World News - Report: six months in labor camp for N. Koreans who didn't cry at despot's funeral[/url][/quote]

The leader's sending them to six months hard labor will teach them to love the leader. Makes sense. :(

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;875557]What the F?


[url=http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/13/10146614-report-six-months-in-labor-camp-for-n-koreans-who-didnt-cry-at-despots-funeral]World News - Report: six months in labor camp for N. Koreans who didn't cry at despot's funeral[/url][/quote]

That'll learn 'em. :doh:

We could learn a good lesson in appreciating things we take for granted from N. Korea.

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/facepalm

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[quote=mooby;875610]That'll learn 'em. :doh:

We could learn a good lesson in appreciating things we take for granted from N. Korea.[/quote]

I don't take anything from North Korea?

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[quote=The Goat;875851]I don't take anything from North Korea?[/quote]

Imagine calling your boss at work and telling him to hold your job for 6 months while you go to a "hard labor" camp because you failed to cry at your dictator leader's funeral. Just sayin', even though life in America isn't as great as we all would like it to be right now, it could always be worse.

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[quote=Lotus;869246]That's what I'm sayin'. For all of his madness and flaws, Jong-il did not start a major war.[/quote]

What a beautiful sentiment, Lotus.

Could you also enlighten us as to all the good things Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot did next, please?

/sarc

:puke:

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;869347]I could see the army supporting an aggressive stance towards SK which might, w/out strong leadership from Jong-un, lead to NK going too far. [B]Possibly even threatening to invade[/B]. At that point, it's as you say - What would China do?

As you said, crazy kid with nukes. I just don't see anything good coming of this.[/quote]

you may be psychic -
[url=http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-vows-special-actions-turn-seoul-ashes-142914265--abc-news-topstories.html]North Korea Vows 'Special Actions' to Turn Seoul to 'Ashes' - Yahoo! News[/url]

(if threatening a form of fire which will consume the S. Korean leadership in three to 4 minutes counts as invading.)

You really start getting back to the concept of a pre-emptive strike if N. Korea even begins to look like they are contemplating an invasion/nuclear attack.

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NK is not going to do anything except stir the pot every few months.

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I just don't even understand them. Their whole mindset borders on insanity. It's like, "Look at this shitty ass rocket we made with some duct tape."

I mean one day some country is finally going to stop taking their shit.

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In other news, North Korea tried another long rang missile launch yesterday.



[YT]ZG48v_azmSQ[/YT]

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@NC: Maybe that video belongs more in the Super Happy Fun Thread.

In regards to your earlier point though, I would expect some country (who am I kidding when I say some country, when in reality I should just say us lol) to do a preemptive strike against NK so that wouldn't happen. Or if it did happen, the response against NK would be swift and brutal. There's no way people around the world would let that kind of crap go down in this day and age without taking some form of extreme punishment.

EDIT: That last paragraph was meant for CRedskinsRule. My bad.

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;910955]I just don't even understand them. Their whole mindset borders on insanity. It's like, "Look at this shitty ass rocket we made with some duct tape."

I mean one day some country is finally going to stop taking their shit.[/quote]

I truely believe that n. Korea is essentially impossible to invade, "liberate" or to do anything but keep taking their shit. The only hope is that they run out of money or there is a net positive coup da tat.

Im guessing china's emergence into a major global economic power will prevent them running out of money anytime soon. And if they did, does anyone else feel like their leadership would fire off some nukes in a major scale murder suicide type thing, or something else horrible?

The more likely scenario is an overthrow of the government / leadership at some point. Obvisouly we can only hope that if this happens the party staging the coup is less crazy than the prevailing party. But with the people of n. Korea becoming more isolated and fringed by the day id bet the new political party be just as crazy or crazier.

Plus humans have evolved to be oppressed; empires, dynasties, kingdoms often last for hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of years and are a major part in all of our ancestry roots. So who knows how long it will take for a democratic force to rise up.

And as long as n korea doesnt do anything real bad to the outside world there's sadly no compelling reason for the rest of the world to stop them from doing what they have been doing for the last 60 years. They have no significant natural resources or continental passages, just people. Past actions clearly demostrate people alone arnt reason enough.

N. Korea has become the perfect model for oppresive regimes to follow that want undeniable respect coupled with the most ludicrous beliefes. Just obtain yourself a few nuke and you can do anything you want.

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[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-n-korean-official-executed-staged-traffic-accidents-155745223.html]Report: N. Korean officials executed in staged traffic accidents | The Lookout - Yahoo! News[/url]


:doh:

Re: North Korea's Kim Jong II Pushing Up Daisies
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918715][URL="http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-n-korean-official-executed-staged-traffic-accidents-155745223.html"]Report: N. Korean officials executed in staged traffic accidents | The Lookout - Yahoo! News[/URL]


:doh:[/quote]

Yeah, I saw that too and thought the same thing.

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[url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article4345619.ece]Sun men trick way into North Korea | The Sun |News[/url]

[quote]Less than one per cent of North Koreans own a car so traffic jams are non-existent. But both in the cities and countryside blue vans with megaphones patrol the streets.

They blare out a relentless message: “Work harder.” [/quote]

I had to laugh at this part...lol