Replace underperformers?
 

I was looking at our cap, and I feel we have a few highly paid players on our team that could easily be replaced by younger talent. Chris Cooley and Deangelo Hall come to mind. We would save 6.2 mil by cutting Hall and 2.0 mil by cutting Cooley. There seem to be a bunch of number two quality corners out there on the market. Neither Terrell Thomas nor Tracy Porter should command a large contract, and both of them seem like they are the odd men out on their respective teams. (Brandon Carr, Brent Grimes, and Cortland Finnegan are all looking to get paiddddddd, so I'd like to steer clear of those guys). I say we cut Hall and Cooley and sign both these guys. I feel like depth at CB is very important in todays NFL, and both these guys can play.

Side note: Do you guys think we could trade Hall or Cooley for anything? I personally doubt it.

Second side note: I'd also like to cut atogwe (yea he's good but he's old, and gets hurt alot) which would save 3.6 mil and sign Reggie Nelson. Yes I am fully aware there is a zero percent chance this will happen.

Third side note: We all love fletcher, but we have to replace him sometime, and I believe an opportunity like Stephen Tulloch, whose beastly play and 5'11 240 frame reminds me of fletcher, does not come around every year. The dude had 3 sacks, 2 picks and 111 tackles last year playing at MLB. The year before he had 160 tackles!

Fourth side note: I don't really see a way we can keep Landry. I love him, but he's always hurt. I think He's gonna pull a Los and do a one year contract somewhere else.

Fifth side note: I think we gotta re-sign Carriker. Depth at D-line is vastly underrated IMO.

Wow this turned out to be more of a blog than my original thread idea.

re: Replace underperformers?
 

If there's a better option than Hall out there at a better price, I say go for it. I don't understand why fans want to get rid of Cooley though. It's like they think having two decent tight ends is a bad thing. Sure he's been hurt lately, but even Cooley himself said he could've come back from his injury last season if they hadn't put him on IR. I think they'll ask Cooley to take a pay cut, but I see no reason as to why we shouldn't keep him as good depth. Do fans forget FD is one strike away from losing a whole season?

As far as your third side note goes, I don't see why we shouldn't keep Fletch for another couple seasons. He's always healthy, he's the only truly consistent player on defense, his age is just a number imo, and if we let him go that's just another hole we have to fill. Would I be opposed to finding his long term replacement in the draft? No, but this isn't a major priority to me. Signing Fletch for another couple seasons is.

Fourth side note: Recent photos suggest Landry has gone insane, so w/e happens with him I'm not going to sweat it. Although if we do let him go that's yet another hole we have to fill.

re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=mooby;890590]If there's a better option than Hall out there at a better price, I say go for it. I don't understand why fans want to get rid of Cooley though. It's like they think having two decent tight ends is a bad thing. Sure he's been hurt lately, but even Cooley himself said he could've come back from his injury last season if they hadn't put him on IR. I think they'll ask Cooley to take a pay cut, but I see no reason as to why we shouldn't keep him as good depth. Do fans forget FD is one strike away from losing a whole season?

As far as your third side note goes, I don't see why we shouldn't keep Fletch for another couple seasons. He's always healthy, he's the only truly consistent player on defense, his age is just a number imo, and if we let him go that's just another hole we have to fill. Would I be opposed to finding his long term replacement in the draft? No, but this isn't a major priority to me. Signing Fletch for another couple seasons is.

Fourth side note: Recent photos suggest Landry has gone insane, so w/e happens with him I'm not going to sweat it. Although if we do let him go that's yet another hole we have to fill.[/quote]

Cooley isn't the player he used to be. I haven't seen him preform in a long time. Also he has been hurt alot recently. He's getting up there in years, and he has a huge cap number. We're not going to be able to keep him and Davis. I say at the very least try to trade him to get some value before he leaves, but I doubt we could get anything for him....which goes to show how little value he has.

I think fletch will be consistent next year, I'm not saying he won't be next year (but the year after that I'll have my worries). I just look at all our needs and the availability to fill those needs. It seems MLB of the future is something that we can address right now, so I think it would be unwise to waste this opportunity. If we just want a guy to fill in and play another year, yeah fletcher will be fine. But I'm always looking to the future (and I think tulloch would probably be an upgrade...but that's not all that important as opposed to longevity IMO)

re: Replace underperformers?
 

We have the cap room to keep these guys no problem. If CC is healthy I don't see a reason to let him go.

re: Replace underperformers?
 

Cooley is a solid weapon......I have no desire for him to become a Patriot or can we afford to kick performers to the curb......

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=Hog1;890650]Cooley is a solid weapon......I have no desire for him to become a Patriot or can we afford to kick performers to the curb......[/quote]

Doubt Cooley would go anywhere that he'd be the number 3 lol

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

Cooley= nice safety valve for our rookie QB im 2012.

Plus, as a fan, I would love to see him retire as a Redskin.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

Thread Topic is a fail. The discussion might have merit, but the title is just awful, honestly, is someone going to come in and say Keep Underperformers?

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

I don't see why we would get rid of Cooley now, because as of right now he and paulsen are our only two TEs under contract. We gotta get a deal in place with FD before we can even have this discussion.

Tulloch would be a nice pick up at MLB, but he is a 4-3 ILB and is looking for 7-8 mil a year.

I think in FA we have really good first and second tier talent at OL, WR, and CB. All positions of need for us and I could see us definitely adding a few pieces there. Will be interesting to see how FA plays out.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

Skinster, who would you want to be #2 behind Davis if we traded Cooley away? Paulsen is decent TE, but not someone that would scare any team. What if Davis smoked and get caught again then suspended. Then Paulsen would become 1st stringer? We do not have plenty of picks where we can draft a TE and expect him to be good enough to be #1 if Davis got injured or suspended. I do not get it, what is frigging wrong with the idea of two TE set??

Hall, on other hand, I do not mind cutting him. I would prefer to ask him to take pay cut first, but if he refuses then if we can find a free agent that is good enough to replace Hall then I won't have any problem with it.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=GridIron26;890703]Skinster, who would you want to be #2 behind Davis if we traded Cooley away? Paulsen is decent TE, but not someone that would scare any team. What if Davis smoked and get caught again then suspended. Then Paulsen would become 1st stringer? We do not have plenty of picks where we can draft a TE and expect him to be good enough to be #1 if Davis got injured or suspended. I do not get it, what is frigging wrong with the idea of two TE set??

Hall, on other hand, I do not mind cutting him. I would prefer to ask him to take pay cut first, but if he refuses then if we can find a free agent that is good enough to replace Hall then I won't have any problem with it.[/quote]

Cooley is a fan favorite, but get over it, he is done. 8 catches in 5 games last year? pathetic. Also he hasn't scored more than 3 tds in the last 5 years. I don't see him adding much value, but I do see him eating up alot of cap room. Lets get rid of his contract when it'll cost us less and give us an opportunity to sign someone else (2 mil might very well be the difference in our ability to get a deal done).

Plus, backup pass catching TEs grow on trees in the mid rounds. It really shouldn't be that hard to come up with a second one...hell even one TE isn't even necessary, ask eli manning.

Even if Cooley were any good, it wouldn't make much sense to keep him and Davis. This years patriots are the only TE combo in the history of football that's been any good. Don't expect that we can repeat that. The next best combo I can think of this year is Shockey and Olsen...and combined they didn't even crack 1000 yds, and only had a combined 83 catches. Jimmy Grahm single handedly annihilated those numbers.

However I will say this for cooley. I get the impression that he is the type of guy that sets a good example in the locker room. If he wasn't a leader on the team, I'd say for sure he would be gone.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=Mattyk;890606]We have the cap room to keep these guys no problem. If CC is healthy I don't see a reason to let him go.[/quote]

We have the cap room to keep him yes, but I would prefer to take his seemingly eventual dead cap sooner than later. Also it frees up even more room to make other options available.

And if somehow we can trade him, we would even get a draft pick out of it. 3 wins in my book. His play doesn't impress me, but his lost leadership will be missed. I think its worth it.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

Doubt his trade value is much of anything at this point, CC is more valuable in a Redskins uniform.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

It would be one thing if we really needed the cap room, or could find actual upgrades from these guys in free agency... but I'm thinking we just stick with what we have for now. As much as I dont like him, I still think Hall is the biggest play maker on the defense. Cooley is clearly the #2 tight end now, but I want him in a Redskins uniform.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=skinster;890730]Cooley is a fan favorite, but get over it, he is done. [B]8 catches in 5 games last year? pathetic[/B]. Also he hasn't scored more than 3 tds in the last 5 years. I don't see him adding much value, but I do see him eating up alot of cap room. Lets get rid of his contract when it'll cost us less and give us an opportunity to sign someone else (2 mil might very well be the difference in our ability to get a deal done).

Plus, backup pass catching TEs grow on trees in the mid rounds. It really shouldn't be that hard to come up with a second one...hell even one TE isn't even necessary, ask eli manning.

Even if Cooley were any good, it wouldn't make much sense to keep him and Davis. This years patriots are the only TE combo in the history of football that's been any good. Don't expect that we can repeat that. The next best combo I can think of this year is Shockey and Olsen...and combined they didn't even crack 1000 yds, and only had a combined 83 catches. Jimmy Grahm single handedly annihilated those numbers.

However I will say this for cooley. I get the impression that he is the type of guy that sets a good example in the locker room. If he wasn't a leader on the team, I'd say for sure he would be gone.[/quote]

If you recall he was never healthy even in camp, and probably had no business playing really. The year before he had 77 catches, he's only 29, too early to toss him to the trash heap.

If he's back to his old self, don't be surprised if he's starting over Davis.

His contract is not a burden to the cap this year, and they could always re-work it to reduce his number.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

In other words, there is no reason to get rid of him.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=Mattyk;890758]If you recall he was never healthy even in camp, and probably had no business playing really. The year before he had 77 catches, he's only 29, too early to toss him to the trash heap.

If he's back to his old self, don't be surprised if he's starting over Davis.

His contract is not a burden to the cap this year, and they could always re-work it to reduce his number.[/quote]

Well said. Agreed.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;890783]Well said. Agreed.[/quote]

Its no burden, I agree, but ditching it creates opportunities to upgrade in greater areas of need. More cap room is never a bad thing when you have alot of holes to fill. TE is not a hole with davis, and I highly doubt Cooley will be here much longer after this year.

Also there is the (hypothetical) potential for his cap number to hinder us from making a move we want to next year through shaving off 2 mil from the possibility of us cutting him then.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

Manning to Cooley sounds pretty cool to me.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=Mattyk;890758]If you recall he was never healthy even in camp, and probably had no business playing really. The year before he had 77 catches, he's only 29, too early to toss him to the trash heap.

If he's back to his old self, don't be surprised if he's starting over Davis.

His contract is not a burden to the cap this year, and they could always re-work it to reduce his number.[/quote]

Don't forget Cooley started just 7 games in 2009-2010 and the 5 games he played last year he was more like Taylor Jacobs. The recent injury trend is not in his favor. I agree he was never healthy last year, I think he Bs'd his way on to the field last year. He was not able to get healthy last off seaon, that is not good.
Just like Portis, Cooley is a warrior that I hate to cut, but he is turning 30 this year and his body health is no longer what it was. We have to get younger. I think Skinster is right. Plus it looks like there are several good TE's in FA.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

He couldn't get healthy because he wasn't able to work with the team doctors because of the lockout.

A little insight here, he seems unlikely to be cut

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/53852/could-chris-cooley-be-a-cap-casualty]Could Chris Cooley be a 'cap casualty?' - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

That said, when I met with Redskins coach Mike Shanahan in December, he mentioned Cooley's injury as one of the bad turning points for the Redskins in 2011 and spoke of how much he liked being able to "set the perimeter" on offense with two very good tight ends. So my belief is that he'd like to have Cooley back. And even if the Redskins decide $3.8 million is too much and they need him to restructure, Cooley's kind of all-in with the Redskins and likely would be amenable to such an idea if it meant staying with the team he loves.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=Mattyk;890959][B]He couldn't get healthy because he wasn't able to work with the team doctors because of the lockout.
[/B]
A little insight here, he seems unlikely to be cut

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/53852/could-chris-cooley-be-a-cap-casualty]Could Chris Cooley be a 'cap casualty?' - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN[/url]

That said, when I met with Redskins coach Mike Shanahan in December, he mentioned Cooley's injury as one of the bad turning points for the Redskins in 2011 and spoke of how much he liked being able to "set the perimeter" on offense with two very good tight ends. So my belief is that he'd like to have Cooley back. And even if the Redskins decide $3.8 million is too much and they need him to restructure, Cooley's kind of all-in with the Redskins and likely would be amenable to such an idea if it meant staying with the team he loves.[/quote]

So the Redskins trainers and doctors are the only health professionals that can get a person healthy? I call BS on any of the players that said they could not get healthy last off season due to the lock out. Millions of people and athletes do it every day. Plus Cooley and most NFL players have enough money to pay for the best health care and rehab in the world.
I agree with you that Cooley will not be cut. He is loved too much by everyone. Just like Portis, he will get a year or two of the benefit of the doubt type chances. When healthy he is a solid player and his cap number is low.
All I am saying is if there is a chance to get a young stud at TE, we take it, even if it means getting rid of Cooley.
In the salary cap era the good teams make these tough decisions every year. Teams like the Steelers and Pats cut good serviceable players all the time in an attempt to stay young and inexpensive.

Cooley is only 29 (wil be 30 when the season starts), can we drop the whole "he's old" moniker? He's not THAT old. What do we want, a 15 yr old pimpled faced kid playing TE?

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G.

I'd hope to keep Cooley around but I see him being cut

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=Defensewins;890961]So the Redskins trainers and doctors are the only health professionals that can get a person healthy? I call BS on any of the players that said they could not get healthy last off season due to the lock out. Millions of people and athletes do it every day. Plus Cooley and most NFL players have enough money to pay for the best health care and rehab in the world.
I agree with you that Cooley will not be cut. He is loved too much by everyone. Just like Portis, he will get a year or two of the benefit of the doubt type chances. When healthy he is a solid player and his cap number is low.
All I am saying is if there is a chance to get a young stud at TE, we take it, even if it means getting rid of Cooley.
In the salary cap era the good teams make these tough decisions every year. Teams like the Steelers and Pats cut good serviceable players all the time in an attempt to stay young and inexpensive.[/quote]

He just underestimated his condition

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7156235/washington-redskins-chris-cooley-ir-says-casualty-nfl-lockout]Washington Redskins' Chris Cooley, on IR, says he's casualty of NFL lockout - ESPN[/url]

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;890999]I'd hope to keep Cooley around but I see him being cut[/quote]

Why? He is still serviceable and after the success the Pats showed with to good TE's hard to imganie the Skins dropping Cooley.

Re: Replace underperformers?
 

[quote=mredskins;891014][B]Why?[/B] He is still serviceable and after the success the Pats showed with to good TE's hard to imganie the Skins dropping Cooley.[/quote]

Because his knee MIGHT be like Lavar Arrington's knee that forced him to retire. If your knee swells and begins to hurt after one or two NFL games, you can not play in this league. I am not saying 100% that Cooley has this type of bad knee, but he has to prove he can stay some what healthy in order to take up millions of dollars in cap space.
I hope he recovers and is ready to play. When healthy he is a great player, but this is still a business, not a popularity contest.