gardner haters
 

gardner wasnt the problem for the redskins. he is a legit 1000yard wide receiver.

everyone makes excuses for all players except gardner. hell even joe gibbs is using gardner as the scapegoat.

gardner has had 3 different systems in 4 season. the one year he was the redskins #1 WR, he got a thousand yards.

this year gardner had 300 less yards and 39 less catches than coles but has 4 more touchdowns.

someone find a stat for dropped ball because after two thirds of the season was over, a sports anchor was saying coles had more drops than gardner.

if gardner was so bad why did gibbs leave him in there? thrash is a capable proven WR. jacobs has all the talent joe gibbs wants.

every offensive player on the roster had terrible years compared to previous seasons.
coles didnt get jack for yards.
portis had to many runs for short yardage.
McCants didnt even find the field.
thrash is back as a reserve.
brunell is a bum.
line didnt block

gardner had to learn new system. thats partly to blame for his route running.
rod did do a good job of getting open. every game there were instances of him beating DB's and him simply not getting the ball because of poor QB or oLine play.


[B]SOMETHING TO CONSIDER:[/B]
coles and gardner are the same age. coles has one more year in the league because he got kicked out of florida state. coles has had a serious injury the last 2 years and he isnt getting surgery to repair it. gardner has never been injured. coles injury will probably hinder him for the rest of his career. there is a solid chance that coles' toe will end his career early. is it smart letting gardner go and while i beleive coles will be done in 2 years? i dont think it is.


my biggest problem with the haters is joe gibbs.
the biggest problem on the offence was the blocking. it didnt open lanes to run through and it didnt give ramsey time. gibbs has been saying they need to block better all year. why hasnt gibbs talked about picking up linemen? why isnt that a priority?

joe gibbs installed an obsolete playbook. he didnt adapt week to week. he left brunell in there too long. he didnt get the WR downfield. all the routes had the receiver running back to the line of scrimmage. for god sakes coles had 90 catches but didnt get a 1000 yards.

williams deserves alot of credit for the play of pierce, clark, clemons, marshall and noble. williams also deserves credit for the career years by springs, smoot, washington, griffin and the solid play by taylor(a rookie).

why doesnt gibbs take the blame for subpar years by PROBOWLERS coles, portis, brunell and samuels? granted brunell is physically and mentally done. but those other guys are in their prime.

joe gibbs is going to let rod gardner go because his ego cant admin his failures. he kept brunell in there for the same reason.

I dont feel gardner is a bust like westbrook is. the redskins coaching staff and ownership the last 4 years has been a bust for the players and fans.

if gardner goes to the right team, he will have more yards and TD's than coles. gardner can play in this league.

sorry for the rant.

Portis got snubed for the pro-bowl, he had a better season than A. Green. Cause if you remember correctly Green played on a team that had a passing attack the whole season.

With Portis,as we all know, played on an anemic offense and still put up good numbers.

Gardner is a legit 1000 yard receiver? One out 4, I wouldn't say that's legit, I know he's played in different systems but so has Coles.

Once again we have an in house doctor making claims about Coles' injury.

Gardner was on his way out before Gibbs got here.

Gibbs is always quick to take ALL the blame right on his shoulders. He's never backed down from accepting the blame for the offensive woes. I don't see how you can say Gibbs is using him as the scapegoat. At his press conference he said Gardner asked if he could seek a trade and the team granted him permission to do so. I have never heard Gibbs say Gardner was the problem for the offensive struggles.

Gardner wasn't the sole reason for the offensive struggles, but how many more years should we wait for this legit 1000 yard receiver to break out and start living up to his potential??

I don't think Gardner is garbage, he's a decent #2, but it's time to move on.

I think everyone is basing their opinion of Rod Gardner not just on this season but on his total body of work. While Coles definitely was a let down this year he has in the past been a breakaway playmaker in this league. That is something Gardner has never been. He has consistently dropped balls not just this past season but over his entire career. He has the nick name 50-50 for a reason. Gardner is a posession receiver with bad hands. Those two things are in direct opposition to each other. He has average speed and isn't a fantastic blocker. His one 1000 yard year he was a #1 guy on a pass happy offense. I think every one of our receivers, as a number one, would have had a good year. You can't look at four seasons and pick out the one good year to base your opinion becasue it is likely that one seaosn was an abberation. Hopefully Coles can recover but even if he doesn't Gardner is not the guy who is going to take his place in the offense. That will go to Jacobs. He still has trade value and we might as well get something for him while we can. It was not all his fault but things do need to be changed and this is one thing that needs changing. Whether the line blocks or not doesn't really affect him much. In fact following that logic he should have caught more balls this year as the offense went into safe mode and started throwing 5 yard slants and ins. These are basic posession receiver routes that for some reason didn't help him have much success this year. At the end of the day you can be mad at Gibbs but he doesn't make the plays. That falls on the players. Gardner can be easily replaced and has trade value. Trade his ass before he drops another redskins pass I say.

[QUOTE=FRPLG]I think everyone is basing their opinion of Rod Gardner not just on this season but on his total body of work. While Coles definitely was a let down this year he has in the past been a breakaway playmaker in this league. That is something Gardner has never been. He has consistently dropped balls not just this past season but over his entire career. He has the nick name 50-50 for a reason. Gardner is a posession receiver with bad hands. Those two things are in direct opposition to each other. He has average speed and isn't a fantastic blocker. His one 1000 yard year he was a #1 guy on a pass happy offense. I think every one of our receivers, as a number one, would have had a good year. You can't look at four seasons and pick out the one good year to base your opinion becasue it is likely that one seaosn was an abberation. Hopefully Coles can recover but even if he doesn't Gardner is not the guy who is going to take his place in the offense. That will go to Jacobs. He still has trade value and we might as well get something for him while we can. It was not all his fault but things do need to be changed and this is one thing that needs changing. Whether the line blocks or not doesn't really affect him much. In fact following that logic he should have caught more balls this year as the offense went into safe mode and started throwing 5 yard slants and ins. These are basic posession receiver routes that for some reason didn't help him have much success this year. At the end of the day you can be mad at Gibbs but he doesn't make the plays. That falls on the players. Gardner can be easily replaced and has trade value. Trade his ass before he drops another redskins pass I say.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Another point about RG, if he was getting open as you say, jamf, why did Coles end up with all the catches? Did the QB's just snub RG for some reason? If a guy is open you throw it to him, no? Coles had to learn the same new system yet he ended up with 90 catches on a bum toe.

I guess the world is just out to get Rod.

I still think Rod is a good 2 receiver for the right team. He may even excel ina new environment but we need a field stretching guy. Or at least a guy we can count on the catch the ball. oh yeah Coles has a bum toe AND a dislocated finger which might explain why he dropped so many balls in the mid-season. Whats Gardner's excuse? A dislocated section of the brain responsible for ball catching?

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Trade his ass before he drops another redskins pass I say.[/QUOTE]

"If He Drops a Pass, You Must Trade His Ass" LOL. I love it. FRPLG Cochran!

Gardner sucks. You can dig up stats to support any claim you want to make. Just watch the games and judge with your own eyes. He stinks. He makes amazing plays on one hand and then drops an easy 3rd down pass that brings out the punting unit. He is not a consistent enough player. The NFL is all about consistentcy. RG is simply not consistent enough to depend on. End of story.

And another thing, I still say I will be amazed(Pleasantly) if the Redskins get anything above a 4th round pick for RG. The NFL knows all about RG. We are not going to pull the whool over anyones eyes. He has 4 years of underachievement on tape for the whole league to review. I would take a 4th rounder and run with it before they change their minds...

If all we would get is a 4th rounder for him, does anyone else think that keeping him might be another option? Give him another chance in the new system and if we draft a WR this year (which is very likely) then have the two of them fight it out in camp. I know he's had his share of chances, but maybe one more, to at least bring up his trade value if anything?

I don't know if that's a plausible scenario, but who knows?

He asked for the trade.........so he does not want to be here.......and he has been 50/50 his whole career..........the guy makes the hard plays look easy, then he makes an easy play look hard. There has been no consistence with him. At least Coles, Thrash, have been consistent through there careers.

I think this is adding buy subtraction. I would like to get something for him, but there is only one Vinne C. in the league.

This is amusing to me. From this thread we can identify the poor sods who bought a Gardner authentic jersey.

How many times in the draft threads have people said "It really takes years for receivers to come around." Gardner is one of those receivers. He can make some big plays, and when Brunell was at QB got a lot more looks than Coles. Then when the QB changed, and we got a QB that could complete a wide open pass, Coles got more looks because I feel Ramsey really likes Coles.

Matty - it doesn't take a doctor to see how Coles' injury is hampering him. He's going much slower, and the WP had an article a while ago that mentioned without the surgery he probably won't be the same athelete again. I'm sure they did their research. Stop with the whole doctor thing, Coles is hurting and I can respect if he wants to forego surgery, but if he's sitting on the bench in two years, I don't wanna hear shit from the guy.

It is true how the fans and media liked to make excuses for EVERYONE but Rod Gardner, he took a brunt of the blame for the anemic Redskin offense, because god knows we can't blame Saint Joe Gibbs. You can only catch what's thrown to you, and the dropped balls between our top two wideouts were a lot more even than we want to admit.

I feel Rod Gardner certainly has his shortcomings, but the Redskins could do MUCH worse. I personally would rather see him stay, because I don't really like the WR prospects coming out of college this year, and he's pretty cheap (of course to trade him next year we'd have to franchise, etc) I agree, for the most part, with Jamf.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]This is amusing to me. From this thread we can identify the poor sods who bought a Gardner authentic jersey.[/QUOTE]

LOL!!! :laughing-


Seriously though, Rod Gardner had a very good rookie season and has not been able to duplicate that performance since then. You can say that Joe Gibbs is using Rod Gardner as a scapegoat all ya want, but the truth is, Gardner is the one who is seeking a trade. Furthermore, he had that nickname 50/50 before Joe Gibbs got here, so tell me, would you want a receiver that only catches 50% of the passes thrown to him. Actually, the numbers were worse than that...toward the end of the season, his numbers actually showed from what I remember his catch percentage was in the forties!

One more thing, it doesn't matter that Gardner was playing in another system. As matter of fact, this system should be easier to adjust to than what Spurrier's system was, so I'm not buying that excuse. When the ball is dropping toward your hands or it's heading between the numbers, if you're a pro, you had better catch at least 80% of those passes! Sure, Gardner had some nice catches this year, but he had alot of drops this year as well. I don't hate Gardner, but I say good riddance!

[QUOTE=Daseal]How many times in the draft threads have people said "It really takes years for receivers to come around." [/QUOTE]


I agree that not everybody can come out on the field as a rookie and burn it up, but by your third or fourth season, you should have a higher percentage of completions.

Rod is gone if we can't trade him we'll probably cut him, I think the team has made the decision to move on. And if Rod himself is looking to get out as it's been reported, it's obvious it's time for both sides to move on. He will probably benefit from the change of scenery. Of course I'm sure some probably think he's being 'pushed out'.

I'm tired of the few that make excuses for the guy. I don't know how many more drops or dumb penalties he has to have before we all agree he's an underachiever. With Rod it's all about potential, he's had 4 full seasons with us now, he had one 'good' season with just over 1000 yards, other than that he's underachieved and been wildly inconsistent. I don't know how anyone can deny that. His supporters want to keep pointing to his one good season, well how about the other 3 that were mediocre??

As for Coles and his toe, I'll stick with my claim that we're not doctors so who are we to say he 'needs' to have the surgery. If his doctors aren't telling him he needs it, who are we to say he needs it?? It's well known the surgery could potentially end his career, so if he has it and he's forced to retire, where does that leave us? I'd rather have Coles at less than 100% than not at all. Coles knows his situation and his body a hell of a lot better than we do, so why can't we respect his decision and leave it alone?

[QUOTE=skinsguy]I agree that not everybody can come out on the field as a rookie and burn it up, but by your third or fourth season, you should have a higher percentage of completions.[/QUOTE]

I agree, my opinion is you have to give a WR 3-4 seasons to develop, well, Rod has had 4. Time to move on.

Exactly. I think he'll still be able to burn people outwright in the coming year.

I'm not personally a Gardner "fan", but I would hate to see us get nothing for him. Then again, I DID forget that he asked to leave. And since that's the case, a 4th rounder would be welcomed I would think.

I get the impression from Gibbs's brief statement about a potential trade, that RG might not want to be with the team. We certainly don't need a guy who can't produce on a consistent basis. By the way, "jamf", you mentioned that Gibbs should take the blame for disappointing seasons from Brunell, Portis, Coles, etc. In case you haven't paid attention, Gibbs is the first person to accept the blame and the last to point fingers. I do agree that the offense MUST improve, but accusing Gibbs of "not being able to admit his failures" is just plain stupid! I guess you're one of those fair weather fans who whines when things go bad and will end up praising Gibbs once we start winning. I suggest you eat your words! :argue:

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]This is amusing to me. From this thread we can identify the poor sods who bought a Gardner authentic jersey.[/QUOTE]

:laughing2 my ass off!

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I agree, my opinion is you have to give a WR 3-4 seasons to develop, well, Rod has had 4. Time to move on.[/QUOTE]
I'm as big a voice about rookie receivers sucking as anyone around here ( I think I lead the charge). But if a guy hasn't matured and developed by his 4th year then something is wrong and the situation is clearly not right for him. So to reiterate "He's always dropping the pass so trade his ass"...or something like that.

We drafted two WR's in 2001...Gardner in the first, and McCants in the 5th. Ok, Gibbs obviously isn't crazy about McCants, and we agree that (unfortunately) he is most likely gone this year, but most would say (or have said) that McCants could fill Gardner's shoes in terms of his performance pretty easily. McCants has little to no trade value but Gardner could possibly get us as high as a 2nd (yeah right), but probably no lower than a 5th rounder. Plus he wants to leave!
You may ask why I'm comparing him to another WR that is practically gone...well it shows that as a former 1st round pick, he has underachieved, and a change is likely the best thing for both parties. I just hope the Skins are able to arrange a trade and don't end up having to just cut him.
As for Coles, at 80% he is still better than a lot of starting WR's IMO.

I believe there needs to be improvement in our WR's...either the ones we have presently or upgrades from the draft or free agency. The biggest thing is this:

You can't become Super Bowl champions by putting in minimum effort.
You can't become Super Bowl champions by being good barely half of the time and inconsistant the rest of the time.

This of course goes for players and coaches alike. Now, I can't say for sure that people like Gardner or McCants don't put forth enough effort to improve themselves during practice...because I haven't seem them practice. However, I believe what you do in practice translates, at least eventually, what you do on the field on Sunday. If we take a look at the greats from the league...past and present..they had unbelievable work ethics...such as Jerry Rice! It takes hard work from everybody to be the best...and even if us Redskins fans have gotten attached to certain players, we must ask ourselves...according to what these players have done on the field...are they players that we can rely on to take us all the way?

I would like to see Rod Gardner go to a system like the Patriots. They don't put much emphasis on statistics. They have basically 5 wide outs who are legit threats. I think this would suit him well. All he has to do is consistently hang on to the football. He got around that problem the past couple of years, but got back to dropping it this season. I don't think that switching from Brunell to Ramsey in the middle of the season helped anyone hang on to balls. The passes were getting there quicker and harder and that is a problem for receivers.

I am of the school of thinking that if it hits a pro wide out in the hands they should hang on. I've made the comment that "catchable" translates to "interceptable" from a defensive standpoint. I don't really like QBs who throw "catchable" balls. If the pass is on the money, it's catchable. A WRs job is to catch the damn ball and that's all they have to do.

Anyway, if Gardner went somewhere like New England where he was only expected to make one or two grabs a game he would be great. I think that Givens, Patten, Brown, Johnson, Branch, Fauria and Graham have all looked so good because they're not carrying a load. Brady throws to the open man and it works great. Same with Indy. He could go somewhere where there were more de facto #1's. Where the ball was spread around. I think that system would fit him best.

[QUOTE=jdlea]
Anyway, if Gardner went somewhere like New England where he was only expected to make one or two grabs a game he would be great.[/QUOTE]

How would he be great making only one or two catches a game?

Going somewhere to be expected to do that would mean he's going some place to sit on the bench!

He would be great if he was only expected to catch a couple balls a game, after all, that's pretty much what he did for us this year. Maybe we just need to lower our expectation level. ;)

[url]http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235213/gamelogs/2004[/url]

Heres a good question: Who would you rather have on your team right now? Rod Gardner? or Freddie Mitchell?


I'd have to go w/ Gardner I guess. But if I was given a third choice, I'd take it.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]He would be great if he was only expected to catch a couple balls a game, after all, that's pretty much what he did for us this year. Maybe we just need to lower our expectation level. ;)[/quote]

Hahaha....that might still be asking for too much! :cheers

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Heres a good question: Who would you rather have on your team right now? Rod Gardner? or Freddie Mitchell?
[/QUOTE]

That's a tough question to answer!

If I had to choose either one....I would still pick neither! :doh:

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Heres a good question: Who would you rather have on your team right now? Rod Gardner? or Freddie Mitchell?


I'd have to go w/ Gardner I guess. But if I was given a third choice, I'd take it.[/QUOTE]

I'd call Chris Doering up. I'm sure someone has his number.

It's a tricky question. Gardner will need to have realistic expectations for a new contract, and he needs a clean break from this team. He can't play his way into the #1 receiver role here - the guy opposite him has a messed-up toe and caught nearly twice the balls he did.

Gardner is better than Mitchell. That shows how bad Mitchell is. He had like 20 catches this year. They are both 1st round busts.

McCants appears to be better than both of them when he plays, but he obviously does some things that Gibbs and company do not like. Maybe after he is gone we will find out what the deal was.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]This is amusing to me. From this thread we can identify the poor sods who bought a Gardner authentic jersey.[/QUOTE]
:lol:

[QUOTE=jdlea]Anyway, if Gardner went somewhere like New England where he was only expected to make one or two grabs a game he would be great.[/QUOTE]

Or he could go to Philly and be the next incarnation of Michael Irvin like Freddie Mitchell is!:rofl:

hes not that much of a bad receiver he jst like u guys said is inconsistent i agree wit malcomconnection give him another chance because like celts said on one hand he makes amazing plays ill take my chances with the amazing plays and give him another shot....i definitley agree with malcomconnection

i agree wit malcom we should give him another shot

We are talking about Rod Gardner right??? the Redskins Gardner???? What is the question anymore?

Look, the guy just does not have sure hands. I think that even with his potential, he needs to be able to be counted on to catch 95% of the balls thrown to him. He doesn't. 4 years in the league.... Does Cooley drop a ball that comes his way? If a tight end can catch it then you should be able to expect the same from your starting wideouts.

Gardner has everything you look for in a prototype #2 wideout, but he just is to inconsitant. If he stays in the league, he is going to have to pick it up a notch. Maybe he will, but how long do we wait?

I don't know. I'm being so goddamn Kerry-ish on this subject. I really don't know how to feel. I would say about 60% of me wants to keep the same team, upgrade the line and just have some continuity. The thing that pisses me off about Gardner is that I forgot he is ASKING to be traded. Now THAT is not something a team player does.

Yes Gardner is asking for the trade and really, what exactly are we losing if we lose Gardner? A receiver that has not been consistant for us! Sure, he has made some nice catches, but I would rather have a receiver that drops the acrobatic passes but catches 80% of the passes thrown his way rather than one that catches the acrobatic catches but drops at least 60% of his passes.

We need three receivers that can step up and be the man! I think Rod would thrive more in an offense that passes the ball 2:1 verse the run.

Yup, I would definitely agree with the assessment of needing a guy who makes the easy catch, because the easy catch is really all a receiver SHOULD have to make anyway. It's Ramsey's job to make that happen. Granted, that's only in a perfect world, but that's how it should be.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]This is amusing to me. From this thread we can identify the poor sods who bought a Gardner authentic jersey.[/QUOTE]

:laughing2

Glad I didn't purchase one.......anyone want a Heath Shuler jersey?........