How will our defense hold up next year?
 

It seems to me like we lost ALOT of our defense. Being 21st in pts and 24th in turnovers last year, its not like its a solid rock for us to fall back on before we started losing guys.

Landry, Atogwe, and (looks like) Fletcher/Rocky are gone. I'd say Deangelo will be cut as well if we manage to sign another Free Agent...which it seems we are looking to do. But not just any free agents, it seems like we're looking more for offensive players as we are targeting eddie royal, pushing hard for Grubbs, and looking at Winston/others.

I hope we somehow find the cap space to fix this without pushing too much money into the future, but it's not looking likely (especially if we get another offensive FA). I think that its even worse that every position we have of need is a pass coverage position. We are in need of 2 starting safeties, a coverage LB, and IMO at least one corner.

Any thoughts/solutions on this matter? If you offer a solution via free agents, please try to look at our cap situation first while taking into account we also have to give RGIII a few million.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

I honestly don't see any suitable free agents out there to replace D.Hall. We might have to ride with him another season. Fletch may or may not be back, but isn't Tulloch still on the market? If Fletch leaves I'd try and get Tulloch. TBH, I don't give a shit about Rocky, because I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about us.

We're supposedly trying hard to get Merriweather to play for us, so he'd fill the FS spot, and if there's one position I'd rather have Doughty playing it'd be SS, which is what he was drafted and originally intended for. I still think he's a backup but if he is going to play I'd rather have him at strong than free. Landry looks like he's out the door so w/e. I wouldn't mind bringing him back on a one year deal but if they don't I'm not gonna be upset about it.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

Might as well go on a mini rant in this thread:

:soapbox:
Over and over and over, fans have said, DON"T BE OFFSEASON CHAMPS, Skins need to do it the right way. Build through the draft. Don't overpay.

Well, guess what, if you build through the draft, develop your young guys, and don't grab every stinking name (regardless of level of proficiency) that appears on the UFA lists, then you may in fact need to see the play on the field to determine how well your grooming and development system works. We have invested time and effort in players like Barnes, Riley, Westbrook (if he's still on the team). Maybe they aren't elite, and you certainly need to weed out the outright liabilities. But every pickup in FA is one less player that went through our development system and one more that will later be reflected back as a sign of the same old same old. In fact even the receiver's we brought in to some degree will fight for time with our players we have invested in. Hopefully competition brings the best out, and we see progress from Hankerson, Paul, Austin etc, but on Defense, the group has been together for going on three years, rather than fretting about decline, let's hope that the development system is in place to make our players improve and see an overall improvement in defense. (Fletch is a separate topic, and I hope we get him signed back)

:rant:

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

With Jarvis Jenkins coming back, the defensive line which is already solidified will be even better. Add to the notion of Orakpo and Kerrigan getting after the QB and Perry Riley making some sort of impact. Fletcher, if he's a Redskin will be even more of tackling machine. The secondary was the weakness of the defense last year. With Atgowe and Landry often injured, that left reserves Gomes and Doughty to take their place. And it didn't help matters that DeAngelo Hall from my estimation played below average in coverage last season. Josh Wilson was a bright spot down the stretch.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

Landry and atogwe were useless last year. That point aside, none of Landry, atogwe, fletcher, or Mcintosh have signed with other teams yet. Some or all of them could still resign here. We're less that three days into Free agency. The draft is over a month a way. June 1 cuts are even further. Right now, we have no idea what our defense will look like when the season starts in 6 months.

Chill out people. You're overreacting to things that haven't happened yet and may not happen.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

With the dwindling DB FA pool I doubt anyone gets cut.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

Why would we want McIntosh back anyways?

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;899247]Why would we want McIntosh back anyways?[/quote]

What's the knock on McIntosh anyway? Of course he's not Ray Lewis but, he's not overpaid nor one random drug test away from being suspension. Help me understand why he's not liked much.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

June 1st cuts can happen any day now, all the team has to do is designate the player as a June 1st cut.

As far as Rocky goes, he's pretty bad in coverage, not much of a run stopper, and generally not a good fit in a 3-4 as an inside linebacker. Plus there's the whole thing about him breaking team rules because he doesn't believe he will be back next year. I can't confirm that as I am at work, but I do remember hearing about the way he acted as if he's headed out the door.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;899240]Landry and atogwe were useless last year. That point aside, none of Landry, atogwe, fletcher, or Mcintosh have signed with other teams yet. Some or all of them could still resign here. We're less that three days into Free agency. The draft is over a month a way. June 1 cuts are even further. Right now, we have no idea what our defense will look like when the season starts in 6 months.

Chill out people. You're overreacting to things that haven't happened yet and may not happen.[/quote]

There's a reason those guys are still unsigned. I'd like to see LF return but the other I really don't care. I think LF is lokking for a big 3 yr deal and teams don't want to pay big money to players that age.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[QUOTE=RGIII;899249]What's the knock on McIntosh anyway? Of course he's not Ray Lewis but, he's not overpaid nor one random drug test away from being suspension. Help me understand why he's not liked much.[/QUOTE]



Looks lost in a 3-4, lost his job to Perry Riley, and is pretty average.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

I'm sure hiring Raheem Morris was not a move designed to improve our defense.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

Fletch likely returns.

If this happens, we have basically the same defense as last year + Jarvis Jenkins, with the exception of our two opening day safeties. But as others have indicated, Landry and Atogwe did not see the field all that much last year. We've already made do without them although our safety play was problematic.

Although Gomes struggled in his rookie season, many good players do. Maybe he will raise his game.

So, in sum, there are concerns at safety but no reason to freak out yet.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;899226]Might as well go on a mini rant in this thread:

:soapbox:
Over and over and over, fans have said, DON"T BE OFFSEASON CHAMPS, Skins need to do it the right way. Build through the draft. Don't overpay.

Well, guess what, if you build through the draft, develop your young guys, and don't grab every stinking name (regardless of level of proficiency) that appears on the UFA lists, then you may in fact need to see the play on the field to determine how well your grooming and development system works. We have invested time and effort in players like Barnes, Riley, Westbrook (if he's still on the team). Maybe they aren't elite, and you certainly need to weed out the outright liabilities. But every pickup in FA is one less player that went through our development system and one more that will later be reflected back as a sign of the same old same old. In fact even the receiver's we brought in to some degree will fight for time with our players we have invested in. Hopefully competition brings the best out, and we see progress from Hankerson, Paul, Austin etc, but on Defense, the group has been together for going on three years, rather than fretting about decline, let's hope that the development system is in place to make our players improve and see an overall improvement in defense. (Fletch is a separate topic, and I hope we get him signed back)

:rant:[/quote]

I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

We're doomed.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;899265]I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.[/quote]

Don't forget Kerrigan. That bum only had 7 sacks and one pick for a touchdown last year. Worth the 16th overall pick? Nahhhhh.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=mooby;899271]Don't forget Kerrigan. That bum only had 7 sacks and one pick for a touchdown last year. Worth the 16th overall pick? Nahhhhh.[/quote]

I don't think he's elite, trade him.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;899273]I don't think he's elite, trade him.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, who in the world would want to have two good pass rusher? [/facepalm]

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

I don't get it...the season is less than 48 hours old and people are already freaking out about our roster.

Patience people...Rome wasn't built in 43 hours.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=Lotus;899261]Fletch likely returns.

If this happens, we have basically the same defense as last year + Jarvis Jenkins, with the exception of our two opening day safeties. But as others have indicated, Landry and Atogwe did not see the field all that much last year. We've already made do without them although our safety play was problematic.

Although Gomes struggled in his rookie season, many good players do. Maybe he will raise his game.

So, in sum, there are concerns at safety but no reason to freak out yet.[/quote]

Our defense did pretty good last year for having rex turn over the ball twice a game. also, our offense was generally allergic to scoring points.

Our defense can afford to slip a little with better QB play and scoring on offense. I'm not worried.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;899284]Agreed, who in the world would want to have two good pass rusher? [/facepalm]

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1[/quote]

Well we really only need one, so let's trade the other. Same thing with Cooley.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;899269]We're doomed.[/QUOTE]



Noooooooooo! You're THE EGO. If you give up, what do you expect the rest of us to do?

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;899287]Well we really only need one, so let's trade the other. Same thing with Cooley.[/QUOTE]



I love the way you think.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;899289]I love the way you think.[/quote]

Thank you. I pride myself on my rational, level-headed thinking that is in no way sarcastic.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

i say cut everyone on the defense and resign landry. i'm pretty sure if we just made him angry, he'd turn green, quadruple in size, and be able to take on the entire offense all by himself.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

I think we should wait until beginning of training camp to "assume" how well the defense will perform, since we are still working on adding players to defense through free agency and draft....

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f237/redstout/eeyore_float.jpg[/IMG]

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

I'll tell you when we get a full defense.

So many missing pieces right now that no one can tell.


D-Line is awesome.

LBs are solid, with or without Fletch. With him, they're one of the best in the league with 'Rak, Kerrigan, Fletcher and Riley/Alexander.

CB could be upgraded but Wilson and Hall are not that bad.

Safety is the only real weakness and man is it weak. We literally have no one to play the positions right now. Gomes shows promise. Doughty is a roster filler that we can't seem to get rid of.

How things have changed so quickly. Last offseason, we were touting Landry and Atogwe as the best safety combo in the league and if ever healthy together, they would have been.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;899265]I don't see much on the pipeline on defense. Jenkins and Riely and that's about it. Barnes and Westbrook aren't any good at covering. I may get flamed for this but I'd try and trade Orakpo. He's simply not an elite player. I'd put Rob Jackson in there cause he seems to be every bit as effective coming off the edge as Orakpo. See what you can get for Rak to maybe get back some draft picks and draft Fletcher's replacement....or perhaps get a corner.[/quote]

agreed . . . Orakpo is a one trick pony that has mysteriously been to two pro bowls . . . trade him while his value is high . . .

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;899284]Agreed, who in the world would want to have two good pass rusher? [/facepalm]

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1[/quote]

one of them has to stop the run . . . one of them has to be able to fight off double teams . . . one of them has to be MORE THAN A PASS RUSHER

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

Are you serious? If he wasn't getting closelined every play, he'd have 30 sacks a year and countless forced turnovers.

What the refs allow to be done to him is criminal. The only time I recall it being called was that game-ending play in Dallas. I was shocked they called it.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=Monkeydad;899352]Are you serious? If he wasn't getting closelined every play, he'd have 30 sacks a year and countless forced turnovers.

What the refs allow to be done to him is criminal. The only time I recall it being called was that game-ending play in Dallas. I was shocked they called it.[/quote]

every "good pass rusher" gets double teamed . . . Orakpo is FAR FROM ELITE . . . Elite pass rushers will get past a double team . . . Elite pass rushers get held all the time, but still perform . . . I bought his jersey after his rookie year thinking he was going to be, but he has not developed a 2nd move . . . he has not gotten better at coverage . . . he has not gotten better at stopping the run . . . and we would be better off getting one rounded OLB and not simply having 2 decent pass rushers . . .

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;899226]Might as well go on a mini rant in this thread:

:soapbox:
Over and over and over, fans have said, DON"T BE OFFSEASON CHAMPS, Skins need to do it the right way. Build through the draft. Don't overpay.

Well, guess what, if you build through the draft, develop your young guys, and don't grab every stinking name (regardless of level of proficiency) that appears on the UFA lists, then you may in fact need to see the play on the field to determine how well your grooming and development system works. We have invested time and effort in players like Barnes, Riley, Westbrook (if he's still on the team). Maybe they aren't elite, and you certainly need to weed out the outright liabilities. But every pickup in FA is one less player that went through our development system and one more that will later be reflected back as a sign of the same old same old. In fact even the receiver's we brought in to some degree will fight for time with our players we have invested in. Hopefully competition brings the best out, and we see progress from Hankerson, Paul, Austin etc, but on Defense, the group has been together for going on three years, rather than fretting about decline, let's hope that the development system is in place to make our players improve and see an overall improvement in defense. (Fletch is a separate topic, and I hope we get him signed back)

:rant:[/quote]


I LOVED last years offseason moves. I LOVE the idea of getting younger and building through the draft, but thats not exactly what we are doing.

We drafted 3 WR's last year. This offseason we signed 2 and are attempting to sign another. While WR was by no means a strength of our team it wasnt the biggest weakness either.

We drafted 1 DB last year in the 7th round while at the same time letting our own guy and argubily our best corner walk. We also signed a younger Josh Wilson who was able to bring excitement to our defensive backfiled, much like Garcon is bringing to our wideout corps.

In 2010 Allen, Shanahan and Haslett made a major change to our defensive scheme that turned the strength of our team into the biggest weakness, and even worse in my opinion created many more holes that needed filling. The D improved in 2011 and many of the holes that were created in the previsous year's change were filled with several mid profile FA signings along with 6 draft picks that were spent on the deffensive unit.

But while the front 7 now looks and smells like a 3-4 defense lacking only a true NT, the secondary, and saftey spot in particular, has fallen apart. Meanwhile we have no draft picks until the third round to go along with our glaring needs at the RT/G positions. Hopefully we can get some late round DB's, but late round gems seem almost mythological or one year wonders when it comes to the CB and S positions.

So we cant just build though the draft, were missing 1st round picks in 2013 and 2014 and only have late round picks to spend on our defensive for this year. I dont think we should break the bank on anyone but unfortunitly we can just groom our own guys.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;899405]

But while the front 7 now looks and smells like a 3-4 defense lacking only a true NT, the secondary, and saftey spot in particular, has fallen apart. [B]Meanwhile we have no draft picks until the third round to go along with our glaring needs at the RT/G positions.[/B] Hopefully we can get some late round DB's, but late round gems seem almost mythological or one year wonders when it comes to the CB and S positions. [/quote]

holy crap! i must have missed something. what happened our #2 overall pick?!?!!

[quote=] So we cant just build though the draft, were missing 1st round picks in 2013 and 2014 and only have late round picks to spend on our defensive for this year. I dont think we should break the bank on anyone but unfortunitly we can just groom our own guys.[/quote]

a wise man once said, don't complain about the way things are done unless you have a better idea.

You obviously take issue with the fact that, we gave up 3 picks to move up to take griffen. you specifically seem to be under the beleif that, if we hadnt made the trade, we'd somehow be in a better position to improve our secondary [B]this year[/B]. please, propose to me, a better solution for are team where we didnt give up our 2nd rounder. what would you have had us do with our 1st and 2nd round picks that would make our team better than a franchise quarterback? please. tell us. whatis your better idea?

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=mooby;899271]Don't forget Kerrigan. That bum only had 7 sacks and one pick for a touchdown last year. Worth the 16th overall pick? Nahhhhh.[/quote]

Left him out. He looks like he's going to be a good player. Elite? I don't know, time will tell. We need some elite players on the defense and right now we don't have one.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;899473]holy crap! i must have missed something. what happened our #2 overall pick?!?!!



a wise man once said, don't complain about the way things are done unless you have a better idea.

You obviously take issue with the fact that, we gave up 3 picks to move up to take griffen. you specifically seem to be under the beleif that, if we hadnt made the trade, we'd somehow be in a better position to improve our secondary [B]this year[/B]. please, propose to me, a better solution for are team where we didnt give up our 2nd rounder. what would you have had us do with our 1st and 2nd round picks that would make our team better than a franchise quarterback? please. tell us. whatis your better idea?[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Relax brah. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The use of our second overall pick is a foregone conclusion. My apologizes if that needs to be repeated for you in ever reference to this year's draft. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Another wise man once said I like the dreams of the future better then the history of the past. I like to say, who dont? [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Based off of historical success of 1st round QB's and some of the questionable moves this FO has made, do i think we gave up too much for Griffin? Probably. But im not against it, nor do I take issue with it. Im indifferent on it. And im excited and as hopeful as you it will work out. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If I sound like I was complaining, my bad. In my opinion forums are a place to share thoughts, form populist opinions, complain and offer praise. Unfortunately, for the time being, I am unable to point to any measurables that able me to offer praise and conviction in the management of this team. I was just trying to share my thoughts that we aint in position to build a competent secondary though the draft anytime soon. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]And I don’t think I said anything to imply that our secondary would be better off this year if not for already spending our second round pick. Im just saying that our secondary wont be built through the draft….. because we don’t have the draft picks to do so, nor have we used our draft picks when available to do so in the recent past. Sure we got Gomes and Thompson, and maybe theyre the next Chris Horton and Sam Shields, not sure if that’s a good thing or not though?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]At the end of theday the things I would have done differently don’t matter. At all. And if you would have done things exactly the same as our FO that doesn’t matter either. Whatsoever. My ideas, your ideas, and everyone else’s ideas of how we should build this team may be better, worse or the same as Allen’s, Shanahan’s, and Danny’s. But none of our ideas actually matter. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=Lotus;899261]Fletch likely returns.

If this happens, we have basically the same defense as last year + Jarvis Jenkins, with the exception of our two opening day safeties. But as others have indicated, Landry and Atogwe did not see the field all that much last year. [B] We've already made do without them although our safety play was problematic.[/B]

Although Gomes struggled in his rookie season, many good players do. Maybe he will raise his game.

So, in sum, there are concerns at safety but no reason to freak out yet.[/quote]
WTF, LL has not had any impact other than spotty since...??? Sean?
Atogwe...nothing to see there...
It has to get better from here...
HTTR...RG3

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=Hog1;899650]WTF, LL has not had any impact other than spotty since...??? Sean?
Atogwe...nothing to see there...
[B]It has to get better from here...[/B]
HTTR...RG3[/quote]Also known as the John Beck argument.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;899254]Looks lost in a 3-4, lost his job to Perry Riley, and is pretty average.[/quote]

Yeah, but it's nice to have average guys on the depth charts.

Re: How will our defense hold up next year?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;899663]Also known as the John Beck argument.[/quote]
There is some truth in that an improved O would bring about nice things for the D.....AND, although not SB ready this year, I do expect significant improvement in that area.