A Return of the Running Game?
 

[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]Do expect the 2012 offense to be more balanced? (i.e. run the ball more then last year)[/COLOR][/B]

For reference [B]2011[/B]- 60/40 pass/run
591 passing attempts (top 5 in the NFL more then every team except Detroit, New Orleans, New England and Atlanta)
300 rushing attempts (bottom 10 in the NFL ahead of only Green Bay, Buffalo, Arizona, Indy, Tennessee, Detroit and Tampa)

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"]Do you [SIZE="4"][B][I][U][COLOR="SlateGray"]want[/COLOR][/U][/I][/B][/SIZE] the 2012 Redskins to be more balanced?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

I ask this question now because of a paraphrased quote from Bruce Allen at a WOW Chalk Talk event. (from another Redskins forum)

Random chick Q: How is the O Line?
[quote=BRUCE ALLEN]The OLine is improving daily and learning the system,[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Green"] We are expecting to see a lot more of the running game this year We have not seen Mike's run game yet. [/COLOR][/B][/SIZE] and with RG3 in the pocket we want to draw the defenders in the pocket and explode of the run.[/quote]

[COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="3"]Do you think this statement is mere GM/coachspeak or do you think we're really gonna see more of the Mike Shanahan running game?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Which question do you want to be the poll question?

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;919425]Which question do you want to be the poll question?[/quote]The first one, thanks man.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

My guess is it'll be a 60/40 ratio of pass to run. (depending on the match-ups and score of course)

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;919432]My guess is it'll be a 60/40 ratio of pass to run. (depending on the match-ups and score of course)[/quote]Do you want more balance or maintain 60/40?

What do you make of Bruce Allen's comment? Coachspeak?

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I expect to see more of a lean to the run than 60/40 but I'd still expect it to be about 55/45 pass for a few reasons:
-Kyle is a passing play caller. He likes to throw the ball on first down to set up shorter distance on 2nd and third down where he prefers to run. He also seems to like to use the pass to set up the run on things like draws and delays. Plus, with RG3, using the threat of the bootleg pass will open up huge running lanes because the backside can't pursue so he will use play-action to set up the run.
-Scores will probably dictate it. We are still an improving team, not yet a team that can expect to enter the 4th quarter on most Sundays with a lead. Chances are we will either be close enough in score that the entire playbook is still viable or behind and needing to pass to catch up.
-RG3 needs to learn how to play QB at this level. The training wheels won't be on like they were with Campbell for 3 years. The plan is for RG3 to be a weapon with his arm first, then his legs for years to come. In order for that to come to fruition, he's going to need plenty of game reps and action. Expect them to expose him to many passing opportunities.

Personally, I don't care about passing vs. running ratios. All I care about is scoring points. My preference in watching a game is wide open air it out football, but I know many Redskins fans hanker for the long lost days of the Hogs and 3 yards & a cloud of dust football. Whatever works for us to put up 24+PPG this season is just fine with me!

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I think it will be more balanced than last year but I think we will still pass more than run. Maybe 55/45 ratio. I think we will have a goal of 50/50 but will be forced to throw the ball more to be more effective. I think the line next year will be better but not quite good enough to run the ball as much as we would like to.

It would be great if we could have a succesful running attack next year. This would control the clock, minimize turnovers, wear down the defense, and set up the big play.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

It has been a pretty long time since the team has a running game. Since Portis left town. Hopefully they will balance the running with the passing now that RGIII is in town.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=30gut;919426]The first one, thanks man.[/quote]

Will do it when I get to a computer, or another mod will

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Evan Royster needs to start. He had an impressive 5.9 yard per carry average last year. I like Helu Jr. too, but there's something about Royster's style of running that is more impressive. Hightower can run the ball well too, but he's susceptible to injury and couldn't withstand the bulk of the carries as the year wore on.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Should have a top 10 to top 5 running attack this year.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I am excited to see what our versatile backfield does this year along with RGIII.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

This has nothing to do with our running game but I am reallly psyched to see what Jenkins does after a year away. He showed great promise in the pre-season last year. Hope he can pick up where he left off and become an impact player.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=30gut;919434]Do you want more balance or maintain 60/40?

What do you make of Bruce Allen's comment? Coachspeak?[/quote]

I'm fine with whatever is getting the job done. If the running game is open, I want them to control the clock and eat it up. If they are stacking the line daring our rookie QB to beat them, I want them to air it out. It really is dependent on the situation and our opponent to be honest with you.


Do I think BA's comments were coach speak? Definitely not on this issue. When we look back at last years running game, we saw a offensive line that was banged up, and our best OL out quite a few games with injury and suspension. Our depth on the OL hurt us really bad last year and it wasn't really until the latter part of the season that the offensive line started to gel and the running game starting opening up.

Look at Helu's rushing yards in the months of Nov/Dec compared to that in Sept/Oct.
[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14192/roy-helu]Roy Helu Stats, Splits - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]

Look at Royster's month of December.
[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14105/evan-royster]Evan Royster Stats, Splits - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]

He tore it up and so did the running game overall.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;919455]I'm fine with whatever is getting the job done. If the running game is open, I want them to control the clock and eat it up. If they are stacking the line daring our rookie QB to beat them, I want them to air it out. It really is dependent on the situation and our opponent to be honest with you.


Do I think BA's comments were coach speak? Definitely not on this issue. When we look back at last years running game, we saw a offensive line that was banged up, and our best OL out quite a few games with injury and suspension. Our depth on the OL hurt us really bad last year and it wasn't really until the latter part of the season that the offensive line started to gel and the running game starting opening up.

Look at Helu's rushing yards in the months of Nov/Dec compared to that in Sept/Oct.
[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14192/roy-helu]Roy Helu Stats, Splits - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]

Look at Royster's month of December.
[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14105/evan-royster]Evan Royster Stats, Splits - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]

He tore it up and so did the running game overall.[/quote]

Royster was definitely more impressive. Both he and Helu Jr. did tremendously well down the stretch last season.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

man I wanted the option to choose a donut!

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;919487]man I wanted the option to choose a donut![/quote]

stupid auto-correct

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I actually think, because of RG3's ability to make big plays running the ball, that it's going to open up a lot more running lanes for the running backs. You're going to have linebackers having to stay home to have someone on RG3. So, I think there will be a more balanced running attack because the running game, by default, will be more successful.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

"More balanced" is tough to predict.

We're going to have both a dangerous running game (if you include QB scrambles) but our deep passing threat will be better than we can remember since the Posse was here.

If 80-yard passes and 50-yard runs is balance...yeah, we'll be balanced.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I don't care about balance as long as what we do works. I'm just excited to have an O that teams have to respect.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Whats been the key for Shanny's teams on offense? Running game period. If we dont run the ball well, especially with a rookie QB, we wont win.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Yep, you can wish for balancing all you want but if you dont get the blocking and the hole finding you need its gonna be pass pass pass.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

50/50 pass-run balance
With RGIII as the QB the running game will be incredibly dangerous. Alot times our running plays look exactly like our pass plays. Defenses will be confused as to what is going to happen whether a draw, pass or naked qb bootleg.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=Paintrain;919435]I expect to see more of a lean to the run than 60/40 but I'd still expect it to be about 55/45 pass for a few reasons:
-Kyle is a passing play caller. He likes to throw the ball on first down to set up shorter distance on 2nd and third down where he prefers to run. He also seems to like to use the pass to set up the run on things like draws and delays. Plus, with RG3, using the threat of the bootleg pass will open up huge running lanes because the backside can't pursue so he will use play-action to set up the run.

-Scores will probably dictate it. We are still an improving team, not yet a team that can expect to enter the 4th quarter on most Sundays with a lead. Chances are we will either be close enough in score that the entire playbook is still viable or behind and needing to pass to catch up.

-RG3 needs to learn how to play QB at this level. The training wheels won't be on like they were with Campbell for 3 years. The plan is for RG3 to be a weapon with his arm first, then his legs for years to come. In order for that to come to fruition, he's going to need plenty of game reps and action. Expect them to expose him to many passing opportunities.[/quote]My expectation is similar.
As much as I want to see a return to the running game or the traditional Mike Shanahan Denver WCO (and its resulting near 50/50 run balance), I don't expect it. (I also have never wanted to be more wrong about anything, well except how much shotgun-zone read we'll run)

I don't think Kyle's philosophy will change especially now that we have Griff.
If anything Griffin, a QB with premeire arm talent, and more receiving talent (Garcon,Morgan) validates Kyle's pass focused philosophy and give life to his sound passing concepts.

I'm sure situations play a role in playcalling but not on a macro level.
Imo a team whose offense is only reactionary to what the defense was "giving them" without dictating or forcing the defense to stop their best plays will always being playing left-handed to the strength of the defense.
Afterall offenses script opening plays for a reason, they script plays with the intent of dictating to the defense not taking what the defense gives.
They set-up the defenses through playcalling and dictate match-ups.
Imo a good offense has an identity and plays to the strengths of its philosophies.
On the whole I think a teams philosophy guides their resulting pass/run ratio.
Meaning passing teams pass and their resulting ratio will still be titled towards the pass regardless of W/L record or score.(ala the Texans under Kyle or the Packers)
By the same token running teams will run ie. Jags.




[quote]Personally, I don't care about passing vs. running ratios. All I care about is scoring points. My preference in watching a game is wide open air it out football, but I know many Redskins fans hanker for the long lost days of the Hogs and 3 yards & a cloud of dust football. Whatever works for us to put up 24+PPG this season is just fine with me![/quote]I don't really care about pass/run ratios either but if I'm gonna talk about play calling tendencies I woud feel silly without including the numbers so I'm not just spit balling.
My preference is for balance leaning towards run focus.
But I don't think many fans are clamoring for 3 yards and a cloud of dust as you say.
And right now your dour description of the running game seems to be the prevailing perception.
People don't see the beauty, nuance nor the utility in a good running game.
(my favorite players are still RBs my favorite non-Redskins is Adrian Peterson)

But, its not about style its about winning.
And either [I][B]style[/B][/I] can win with the right coaching, talent and exection.
I think people wrongly project an implication that one style is right and the other is wrong.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Nice thread 30gut. I think we all know in MS's first year he didn't have the OL he needed to run his zone blocking scheme and the players didn't know the zone blocking scheme very well so I think KS relied more on his passing plays. Last year after picking up OL better suited for zone blocking and the others having been in the system for a year we saw better run plays.

Maybe it is that run blocking is more intricate in MS's system then other systems and takes longer to learn. IDK. I too think that better QB play will bring about better runs. With RG3's ability to get the ball down field defenses will have to put someone back there covering anything deep which is one less man in the box. Then there is one man possibly covering the QB. So hopefully this year we will see and we should see better play from our running game.

Personall I think the run/pass ratio's are a stat we should pay only a little attention to. I think what the team should be looking at is what the opponant will allow them to do. If the opponant has a weak DL then lets run all day. If the opponant has a weak back field and a strong DL then we will need to pass more.

But in the end a good team needs to be able to run, especially at the end of the game to run the clock out after getting a decent lead.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I would love to run more often , as that means we are controlling the line of scrimmage . RG111 should have more success with a strong running game , I could care a less if we run or pass on first down , I just want TDS !

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

In order for the offense to be more balanced in 2012 than it was in 2011, the Redskins have to improve in the running game. Last season, the Redskins were 25th in the NFL in rushing and 14th in passing. That's not balanced at all. If Helu Jr. and Royster can improve in the ground game, then there's a chance the Redskins can be a more balanced offensive team.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Hopefully, we'll run more this season because we'll be ahead late in the game more than we were last season. Also, I have a feeling that there will be some designed runs for RGIII and that he'll take off on some runs on rollouts.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Last year we had an anemic passing game and really needed to run the ball more. Since we didn't run the ball all that much last year, I don't see us doing it more now that we have Griffin.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

If by chance the Redskins end up gaining more yards running than passing, they have a chance of being a winning team for sure. Running the ball effectively means the Redskins will have to throw less, which minimizes mistakes like costly interceptions. But in order to win, the Redskins will have to be balanced.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Well if your figures are correct the ratio last year was more like 66/34 so, yes I would expect it to be nearer 60/40 this year.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

57/43 pass to run

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=davy;919687]Well if your figures are correct the ratio last year was more like 66/34 so, yes I would expect it to be nearer 60/40 this year.[/quote]My bad on that, 300 rushing attempts should be 400 that why there was 60/40 ratio last year.
Didn't notice til you said, thank you for your correction.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

I voted yea but last year we passed alot with a bad QB so now that we have a good QB with a great arm I could see it staying about the same.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

Unless we count RG3 option/scrambling as runs, why wouldn't we try to pass more?

Sure based on the OTA info (thank you warpath!), the Shannys have more keeper plays in mind, but if RG3 works out, why have him hand the ball off more than Rex did last season?

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

If the Redskins can run the ball 25-35 times a game and throw 30 attempts a game, then that would be well balanced. Shanahan is the type of head coach that would open up airing it out and go up by 14 or 17 points and then run the ball for the remainder of the game if the defense is shutting down the opposing offense.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;920753]If the Redskins can run the ball 25-35 times a game and throw 30 attempts a game, then that would be well balanced. Shanahan is the type of head coach that would open up airing it out and go up by 14 or 17 points and then run the ball for the remainder of the game if the defense is shutting down the opposing offense.[/quote]So, essentially what you're asking for is the Redskins to be a really good team in 2012?

I share your hopeful sentiment.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;920754]So, essentially what you're asking for is the Redskins to be a really good team in 2012?

I share your hopeful sentiment.[/quote]

The Redskins haven't had a winning season since '07. I'm optimistic every year. The defense will come to play. It's the offense that's in question. If Robert Griffin III is the answer at quarterback, and if our wide receivers can make plays, then combined with even an average running game the Redskins should be able to put up points and win games.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;920756]The Redskins haven't had a winning season since '07. I'm optimistic every year. The defense will come to play. It's the offense that's in question. If Robert Griffin III is the answer at quarterback, and if our wide receivers can make plays, then combined with even an average running game the Redskins should be able to put up points and win games.[/quote]To be fair though, the Redskins should have been able to put up points and win games every year. Well, except last year when they built an awful team. But: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012(?). Each one of those teams had plenty of offensive talent in order to succeed.

We've had three different offensive coordinators over that time (four if you count Sherm Lewis), but all were/are guilty of favoring the system that had gotten them the job here instead of using more modernized schemes that teams attack opponents with week to week. And it sure seems to me like the Redskins have always been two or three years behind the offensive times. At least since we hired Al Saunders in 2006, that is.

Re: A Return of the Running Game?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;920769]To be fair though, the Redskins should have been able to put up points and win games every year. Well, except last year when they built an awful team. But: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012(?). Each one of those teams had plenty of offensive talent in order to succeed.

We've had three different offensive coordinators over that time (four if you count Sherm Lewis), but all were/are guilty of favoring the system that had gotten them the job here instead of using more modernized schemes that teams attack opponents with week to week. And it sure seems to me like the Redskins have always been two or three years behind the offensive times. At least since we hired Al Saunders in 2006, that is.[/quote]

Under Zorn the Redskins were a terrible team. How do you start off 6-2 in 2008 and finish 8-8? In 2009 Redskins were worse than Richie Pettibon's 1993 squad although both of those teams finished with a 4-12 record. Anyways, in the years since Gibbs left and Shanahan took over, the Redskins were a dismal looking team to watch. They were not an explosive team at all.