Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/8/16/3246861/how-reliable-is-fred-davis-as-a-run-blocker]How Reliable is Fred Davis as a Run Blocker? - Hogs Haven[/url]

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Smells like job security for Cooley.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Good breakdown. He's definitely a liability more often than not in blocking it seems.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I still think Niles Paul is the better blocker out of the 3. Fred's horrible blocking has been a issue from day 1.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Its a problem, but Shanny stated when he came in he prefered a pass catching TE as well as a blocking TE. With Cooley questionable to be on the roster this year, who steps up to fill the void as blocking TE, Niles or Paulson possibly?

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

The upside with Chris Cooley is that he's winning to do just about anything and everything it takes to stay with the Redskins, and he's traditionally been a pretty good run blocker. I think you find some way of keeping Cooley on the team. I'm hoping that preseason game #2 will yield some catches for CC #47 and remind us why Chris is a valuable addition to the team.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=mredskins;931278]Smells like job security for Cooley.[/quote]

The only way I let go of Cooley is if I am satisfied with Davis' run blocking. For me, it is not enough to be a receiving tight end and a below average run blocker. Tight ends do more blocking than receiving during the course of a game. I suppose you could substitute TE's in passing/running situations but I would prefer not to have to show the defense my hand.

If we do end up letting go of Cooley and Davis continues to suck at run blocking I am hoping Niles Paul emerges as a decent run blocker since in the past he has been a decent receiver. He is CERTAINLY going to have to step up his receiving game from last week though - too many drops last week.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I think who really benefits here is Logan Paulson. I think he may be a lock in Shannahan's mind. Who knows maybe a reciever gets cut and they keep four tight ends, because of Niles Pauls flexibilty.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Yeah Paulsen is the sleeper in all of this, for sure

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I never understand why basic technique is so hard in situations like this. I mean I am sure they keep telling him to stay lower and he consistently doesn't. I surely have no experience with it but if my coach told me to stay low I'd stay low. I mean it's a fundamental principle of what he is trying to do. Is it legit difficult to do? Just don't stand straight up when the ball is snapped right?

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Yes, Davis is not a good blocker, but Cooley has never been the second coming of Mark Bavaro either. I have never been impressed with Cooley's blocking. Cooley is an ok blocker, but I would not say his blocking is THE reason why he makes the squad.
More importantly IF Cooley continues to shows can not stay healthy, that would be a major reason to replace him in the coming year or two. We can not continue to hold hostage roster spots for guys like T Jammal Brown who can not stay healthy for more than a handful of games. Time to move on with youth.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

People at the practices have been telling me all Cooley does is block. He's not being targeted at all by the QBs, just sit back and block. What does that all mean? I don't know, interesting though

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Articles like that are my sports/media pet peeve.
They push the part for the whole fallacy.
This small part of Davis as a blocker is not the sum total of Davis as a blocker.

Some points that jump out at me:

o The Bills have a good front 7

o The OL as unit stunk against them are we gonna jump to conclusions about every member of the OL that played poorly?

o How many good receiving TEs are also very good blockers?

o How many teams by [I]design[/I] ask their TE to block the edge without help?

o Notice on the one play where Davis does set the edge (against lol Mario Williams) he has help and is able to spring Royster to the outside

o I'm not sure how much of a carry over there is from TE pass blocking to run blocking but if there is then the notion that Chris Cooley is a better blocker then Davis is wrong to the point of being absurd:

Three Years of Pass Blocking Efficiency: Tight Ends
A Quarterbacks Worst Friend:
Rank Name Current Team Pass Protects Total Pressure PBE
1 Brandon Manumaleuna CHI 264 31 90.63
2 Greg Olsen CAR 198 20 91.67
3 Jeff King ARZ 236 25 91.74
4 Brody Eldridge SL 106 11 91.98
[B][I][U]5 Chris Cooley WAS 106 11 91.98 [/U][/I][/B]
6 Matt Spaeth CHI 180 18 92.08
7 Vernon Davis SF 182 17 92.31
8 John Carlson MIN 169 17 92.31
9 Matthew Mulligan SL 115 10 92.83
10 Jeremy Shockey FA 178 16 93.26


Davis needs to be more consistent with his blocking.
But, for my money/to my eye he's the second best blocking TE on the team behind Paulsen and he's on par if not better then most of the other receiving TEs.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

in the alex gibbs zone scheme, the TE is often the seal blocker. it sucks that we don't really have that guy, but it is what it is.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I just noticed both Davis and Cooley was were lined up across from Idonije on the sack fumble by Griffin.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=RGIII;932144]I just noticed both Davis and Cooley was were lined up across from Idonije on the sack fumble by Griffin.[/quote]Davis actually attempted to block and got beat, probably expected a double team with Cooley who just stood there dazed/confused.

Davis had at least one 1 on 1 block vs Peppers that I'm sure no one will mention.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Looking back at his days at USC, Fred Davis pancaked guys whenever Matt Leinart handed Reggie Bush the football. One would think that Davis gets his blocks in on DEs and OLBs especially on those stretch plays that are ran to his side.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;932256]Looking back at his days at USC, Fred Davis pancaked guys whenever Matt Leinart handed Reggie Bush the football. One would think that Davis gets his blocks in on DEs and OLBs especially on those stretch plays that are ran to his side.[/quote]

As you know, college and NFL are different levels. Perhaps Shanny should move Davis to WR, have him lose little weight if necessary. He could overpower DBs.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I say, the value of a solid blocking TE is critical when your oline is suspect and you have a rookie QB, especially one that expects to spend time around the edge.

Say I am crazy, but I would rather have a solid RT and Cooley, Paulsen, Niles Paul. that Fred Davis with what we have today.

Many have said a TE is a rookies best friend...they seem to forget that their oline would be the equivalent of family...Line first, receivers 2nd....I guess I'm kinda old school

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Surprised Paulsen wasn't asked this off-season to bulk up a little to play OT...

[QUOTE=RGIII;932322]Surprised Paulsen wasn't asked this off-season to bulk up a little to play OT...[/QUOTE]

Is that a normal transition? From TE to OL?

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I think Paulsen might be the best all-around TE on the roster at this point between Paul's inconsistency, Davis' poor blocking and Cooley's lead feet lol. Gridiron's idea to make Davis a WR might be a good solution as well. Davis was big for a tight end in college but most of the top TEs at the pro level are bigger e.g. Gronkowski and Graham are the best in pro and both are 6-6 or 6-7 and 265 lbs. Fred Davis and Vernon Davis shorter and lighter. SF seems to use Vernon Davis downfield way more than blocking, right?

Fred to WR...he'd be our only big/strong WR who can consistently break tackles.

Niles Paul is listed at 6-1 and 233 lbs btw...I just don't see how he's a good prospect for TE, particularly in this offense. That he couldn't hold a roster spot as a WR is pretty concerning given the WR corp lack of a bigger, stronger WR. Were his hands not enough to play WR, given the many drops he's had?

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Shannon Sharpe is 6-2 and about 230, but I don't remember him blocking a whole lot and besides that dude was truly a phenom. He reinvented the position.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

I think this recent campaign against Fred Davis blocking is misguided.
Davis is one of the better TEs in the NFL he's not an OL nor a blocking TE.
While Cooley is out there completely missing blocks, Fred is getting killed for getting beat 1 on 1 vs Mario Williams, Israel Idoneje and Julius Peppers.
Lets have some prespective, its preseason.
I doubt the regular season game plan is gonna involve Davis blocking the bigger DEs 1 on 1 to set the edge on a zone stretch all the time.

With that being said I actually agree that Paulsen is our best all around TE.
I've thought so ever since the Panthers game last year.
Although Paulsen can't run the whole route TE route tree like Fred he provides a good target on seam routes and corner routes and I honestly don't think I've seen him drop a pass.
And what Paulsen lacks as a receiving TE he more then makes up with his blocking.
Paulsen is a good enough blocker to set the edge in the run game 1 on 1 vs DEs.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Wait.... I'm confused.... weren't people talking about how "awesome" Davis is and how Cooley was going to get cut just a few days ago? and how the locks were going to be Davis, Paul, and Paulsen? Now we come full circle to how Davis can't block (which is what I said) and that he is a liablity?

The only thing that I can see keeping him on the team is his pass catching since he was the best WR we had last yr. Maybe we should switch him with Paul completely. Paul becomes a TE and Davis becomes a WR.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Davis has never been a good blocker, neither was Cooley either. Not a deal breaker when you can catch the ball though.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=The Goat;932370]Shannon Sharpe is 6-2 and about 230, but I don't remember him blocking a whole lot and besides that dude was truly a phenom. He reinvented the position.[/quote]

Cooley is only 10 lbs heavier and Davis is only about 14 or 15 lbs heavier then Paul. I guess that little bit of weight could make a huge difference but I'd think it still would boil down to technique, leverage, and actually blocking the person your supposed to block. How big was Portis? he seemed to be a really decent blocker and he really didn't lock up with too many DE's.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=Mattyk;932410]Davis has never been a good blocker, neither was Cooley either. Not a deal breaker when you can catch the ball though.[/quote]

LOL, I started to add a paragraph about Cooley not being very good either at blocking but took it out since the thread was about Davis.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=Mattyk;932410]Davis has never been a good [B]blocker[/B], neither was Cooley either. Not a deal breaker when you can catch the ball though.[/quote]

When the coaches look at what each TE candidate brings to the table they must see a lot of the same things from Davis, Cooley, and Paul.

The one Redskins TE candidate who stands out from the others as a blocker is Logan Paulsen. That's why I think he makes the team.

I think the Skins will end up making a decision between Cooley, the proven but oft-injured veteran with the big contract, and Paul, the younger, cheaper, developing player who can help them on ST. In the end, I think it's up to Paul to show enough to merit being kept because the coaches already know what Chris Cooley can do.

I doubt that serving as the backup FB does anything to help Cooley stick. Finding someone to do that job should be easy enough for the Skins.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Barring injury (or I guess suspension), our TEs will almost definitely be Davis, Paul, and Paulsen.

Cooley's battling for a spot with Morris really

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=SBXVII;932412]Cooley is only 10 lbs heavier and Davis is only about 14 or 15 lbs heavier then Paul. I guess that little bit of weight could make a huge difference but I'd think it still would boil down to technique, leverage, and actually blocking the person your supposed to block. How big was Portis? he seemed to be a really decent blocker and he really didn't lock up with too many DE's.[/quote]

Good points. When you think back to CP blasting anyone who stepped into the backfield it kind of amazes that Davis can't pancake people.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Big difference between blitz pickups and blocking on the line and having to lock horns with a DE and steer him out of the way.

I do miss Portis blasting guys. Man he was nasty.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=Mattyk;932475]Big difference between blitz pickups and blocking on the line and having to lock horns with a DE and steer him out of the way.

I do miss Portis blasting guys. Man he was nasty.[/quote]

Me too -- Portis seemed to relish sticking it to folks when blocking (makes sense, as they were they same guys tackling him when he had the ball). He was the best RB blocker since Sweetness (who was once quoted as saying that for him, the perfect play was to crush a blitzing LB so his QB could throw a long TD pass -- amazing from the one-time all-time leading rusher in the league). Miss that guy too, come to think of it. Still cannot believe that he's gone.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932445]Barring injury (or I guess suspension), our TEs will almost definitely be Davis, Paul, and Paulsen.

Cooley's battling for a spot with Morris really[/quote]
Interesting, Paulsen over Cooley huh? I wouldn't be shocked at this since the #3 TE is rarely used as a receiving option but at his salary and with Paulsen being a better blocker I guess I can see it. Pretty clear that Shanahan wants Paul to be the #2 TE and since he's much younger and cheaper than Cooley it makes sense. Let's not forget that Paul got a ton of snaps last year at WR even though he wasn't targeted much.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

Fred Davis is more of a receiving tight end. But I doubt seriously if he's lacking in his blocking ability.

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=SmootSmack;932445]Barring injury (or I guess suspension), our TEs will almost definitely be Davis, Paul, and Paulsen.

Cooley's battling for a spot with Morris really[/quote]

If this was true, choosing between a $6 million dollar veteran leader vs. young RB with flashes of potential... At this point I'd have to go with Morris. Our RB situation has a lot of injury red flags / unknowns. Morris still needs to learn blitz pickup - I think he's the reason RG3 fumbled, right?

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[quote=ethat001;932614]If this was true, choosing between a $6 million dollar veteran leader vs. young RB with flashes of potential... At this point I'd have to go with Morris. Our RB situation has a lot of injury red flags / unknowns. Morris still needs to learn blitz pickup - I think he's the reason RG3 fumbled, right?[/quote]

Well the RB situation may actually help Cooley's status

Re: Thoughts on Fred Davis and Run Blocking
 

[url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2012/aug/22/cooley-misread-defense-sackfumble-vs-bears/[/url]