2.2 million for B. Johnson?!?!
 

I say adios and good luck in New Orleans cuz 2.2 million dollars as a first year cap hit for a slightly above average FULLBACK is ridiculous. Plus we still need cap room to sign our draft pick and match any offer made to McCants.

we will miss him on special teams though but he can be replaced by an undrafted player easily and much, much cheaper.

Good for BJ, the guy is getting (over) paid.

I can't see the Skins matching this offer, way too expensive.

The FO said it would match any offer. They'll look like they were blowing hot air if they don't, and that's probably not the message they want to send to other teams, agents, etc. I say they're dumb enough to match, simply out of pride. Of course, I hope they don't because he's not worth that money.

We won't miss him come the regular season.

He will be missed on special teams, but he doesn't really fit well with our new offense. I wish him luck in NO though. He was a good player, always put his heart into it.

Is it just me, or is N.O. paying way too much here? They must really like BJ. If Snyder made this offer, the entire media would be up in arms over Danny-boy over-paying, buying a championship, etc.

Also, of course the skins said that they would match every offer. What are they gonna say, "Don't worry, we won't counter."? It's something of a bluff when you play the RFA game. You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, etc. I say walk away from BJ, but hold onto McCants.

I think he might be worth it...about a milliona year.

Yeah the 1st year is costly, but that just means the next couple years should be pretty cap friendly. There are other ways to create cap room (i.e. cutting Larry Moore).

A guy like Johnson can easily be replaced. I think we should be worried about losing McCants.

Goodluck in NO Bryan Johnson. We had to get rid of some of our guys in the backfield and this is the easiest way to do it.

Someone said Parcells said Bryan Johnson was an outstanding blocker - the best in the NFC or something like that, I can't remember.

We don't need a blocking back in a one back system though it seems to me. Whoever is the back better be able to block, but I don't think we will have a fullback except maybe for special situations.

BJ seems like a great fit in this offense, possibly in the H-back role. Whether he's worth what the Saints are offering is another story though.

It's too bad this offer wasn't made a few days later so the coaching staff could at least have mini-camp to observe Johnson and the other backs and get a better determination of how valuable he could be to the team

I think the Redskins will figure out a way to match. I think they want to avoid setting any precedent that implies if BJ was a free agent from another team they'd undoubtedly pay the money but they don't take care of their own. Then again, 2.2 million sure seems like a lot for him

[QUOTE=smootsmack]It's too bad this offer wasn't made a few days later so the coaching staff could at least have mini-camp to observe Johnson and the other backs and get a better determination of how valuable he could be to the team

I think the Redskins will figure out a way to match. I think they want to avoid setting any precedent that implies if BJ was a free agent from another team they'd undoubtedly pay the money but they don't take care of their own. Then again, 2.2 million sure seems like a lot for him[/QUOTE]

nonesense, we are talking about an also ran fullback who was bucking to lose his job to rock last year, this is not a player that is significant to this team, I really have to wonder what BJ has done for the skin's to make him so inexpendable? I would like to know 1 defining moment he has had with us, and I don't want to here about 2.2 mil. for a special teamer, the guy isn't renay thompson here. I can't blame a guy who hasen't made that much money in his carreer and probabaly won't other than a dumb contract like the saint's offered for signing the offer sheet, there is no way he would see that kind of money from us. Blocking? that's what gibb's uses TE's for, I don't see were the value for BJ is on our team, good luck and thank's for the memories, not that I can remember any.

Hear, hear! For someone who has tried just to crack and stay in the league, this is a big payday. Well done and good luck!

That's a hell of an expensive BJ! ;) (Sorry couldn't resist.)

Seriously though, he won't be badly missed. If Gibbs is running his old offensive style virtually unchanged, Johnson would have been an expensive luxury.

One thing though - according to the write up I saw the contract is heavily laden with almost unobtainable incentives. The 2.2M amount qouted is the cap hit IF all his bonuses are paid. He's unlikely to get anywhere near that, so the Saints will get a cap rebate based on what he actually earns. The big problem in reality is his $800,000 roster bonus - it's not a signing bonus so hits the cap in full this year. We can't afford that for what we get out of him.

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse]That's a hell of an expensive BJ! ;) (Sorry couldn't resist.)

Seriously though, he won't be badly missed. If Gibbs is running his old offensive style virtually unchanged, Johnson would have been an expensive luxury.

One thing though - according to the write up I saw the contract is heavily laden with almost unobtainable incentives. The 2.2M amount qouted is the cap hit IF all his bonuses are paid. He's unlikely to get anywhere near that, so the Saints will get a cap rebate based on what he actually earns. The big problem in reality is his $800,000 roster bonus - it's not a signing bonus so hits the cap in full this year. We can't afford that for what we get out of him.[/QUOTE]
The $2.2 million cap hit sticks in 2004, so it actually is a real number and it does have to be accounted for on this year's cap. It's due to the fact that the unobtainable incentives you speak of are actually included as "likely to be earned" incentives-- which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's one of the latest toys teams have started playing with to improve their [i]future[/i] cap numbers. The Vikings did this to great success last year, and got a huge total rebate on this year's cap. It basically gives you extra cap room in future years. So the Saints would have a little more money to play with in 2005.

By including the $800,000 roster bonus up front-- rather than a prorated signing bonus--the Saints are using their 2004 cap room (around $11 million) as leverage against the Skins (around $4 million), essentially betting that the Skins can't afford to take such a large up-front hit for an unessential player. It actually makes a lot of sense-- if you have extra money in the current cap year to play with, why not use it to your advantage, while improving your outlook in future years?

Correct JC - I misquoted in my post - the rebate applies next year, but my point was it wasn't what he will really earn. As you say it's a kind of loophole they are exploiting to discourage the Skins.

Get the feeling this is the kind of thing someone will pull with McCants too.

Cecil Martin who was a hell of a blocking FB could be picked up for real cheap

I don't know what the big deal about a fullback is in gibb's offense, can someone give me the name of the blocking fullback gibb's used his last tenure?

[QUOTE=offiss]I don't know what the big deal about a fullback is in gibb's offense, can someone give me the name of the blocking fullback gibb's used his last tenure?[/QUOTE]
Gibbs typically used his TEs as blocking "H-backs", bringing them in motion, or shifting them into a set where they line up as a lead blocker. I don't recall any true fullbacks in Gibbs' tenure.

Now that I think about it, Riggins was often referred to as a fullback, but he's the only one I recall ever being referred to as a "fullback".

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Now that I think about it, Riggins was often referred to as a fullback, but he's the only one I recall ever being referred to as a "fullback".[/QUOTE]
Timmy Smith and Brian Mitchell, too. But all of these guys were used as multi-purpose ace backs for the most part. None of them fit the classic blocking fullback mold.

When I think of blocking backs under Gibbs 1.0, I immediately think of Otis Wonsley and Don Warren. Although Warren was really a half-back

What New Orleans is doing is no different than what the Skins did last year. The deal for a RFA has to be structured in some way to discourage the current team, which usually means overpaying in some way or another.
If Joe Gibbs thinks this guy is worth keeping, it will be matched.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Timmy Smith and Brian Mitchell, too. But all of these guys were used as multi-purpose ace backs for the most part. None of them fit the classic blocking fullback mold.[/QUOTE]

Which is my point, Gibb's really never uses a fullback in a conventional sense, with A 1 back set the back is a multi purpose back which is not BJ he is not a runner he is more of a conventional blocking and catch the occasional pass FB, Gibb's likes to use the bigger TE's to lead block, guy's who can put a good lick on a D-linemen, that's 1 reason I am kind of exited to see seller's in that role I think it's perfect for him, the guy is big, fast, and strong.

[QUOTE=offiss]I don't know what the big deal about a fullback is in gibb's offense, can someone give me the name of the blocking fullback gibb's used his last tenure?[/QUOTE]

I remember Otis Wonsley and Clarence Harmon early on when Gibbs first arrived. Seems to me he had tight ends (Doc Walker, Clint Didier, Don Warren) and linemen (Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby) blocking later on in his tenure.

Regards,

H2TR

[QUOTE=smootsmack]When I think of blocking backs under Gibbs 1.0, I immediately think of Otis Wonsley and Don Warren. Although Warren was really a half-back[/QUOTE]

Hey, I thought Don Warren was a tight end?

Regards,

H2TR

I think Warren was one of those h-back/tight end hybrids

Just so everyone knows, veteran FBs like Cecil Martin won't come much cheaper than Bryan Johnson. Johnson is going to cost $1 million per year. Vets like Cecil Martin are going to cost somewhere around 800K/year because the league minimum rises for each year a player has been in the NFL.

BJ was the fourth leading reciever last year and a very good blocker. He sounds like a great "H-Back" to me. The money may be to steep though.

are we forgetting about Rock Cartwright here? He's a solid blocker, and pretty versitile; he proved he can actually run the ball too.

I thought if u signed a veteran to the league minimum, it actually only counted around 600,000 against the cap. I could be wrong though.

[QUOTE=nosebleed]BJ was the fourth leading reciever last year and a very good blocker. He sounds like a great "H-Back" to me. The money may be to steep though.[/QUOTE]


refresh my memory who did he block? because if he did he was about the only 1.

He really showed promise in his rookie (I think) year under Schotty in a more ball control oriented offense, which is probably why Gibbs really seemed to like him.
Still, if the money is deemed too much, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone else to replace him.

Rock isn't quite the blocker that Johnson is but Rock better get his blocking hat on quick because I don't think BJ will be back.

Looks like we're keeping him:

Redskins | Offer to Johnson Matched - from [url]www.KFFL.com[/url]
Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:22:01 -0800

KFFL has learned the Washington Redskins have matched the New Orleans Saints' four-year, $4.12 million offer sheet to restricted free agent FB Bryan Johnson.

I like the guy but not for that money..... How is it structured?

He is a good role player, at least we are keeping some of our home grown tallent around, and thats a plus.

wow, I must say I'm surprised. Gibbs must really have some big plans for him.

So, was matching the offer to Johnson tied to the decision to let Trotter seek a trade? What are the financials behind a Trotter trade, do we save money?