Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

ESPN 980’s Polian and Czban have been suspended for some on-air comments they made regarding transgender issues. Check out the story here.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2012/12/11/espn-980-hosts-disciplined-for-transgender-discussion/?wprss=rss_sports]ESPN 980 hosts disciplined for transgender discussion[/url]

First of all, let me say that I loathe Polin and Czban. I'm sick and tired of them complaining about RGIII taking hits, and saying he should just be a drop back passer. They're morons and i'm glad they’re off the air. I cant stand listening to them. They’re comments were pretty insensitive and crude, and their suspension is deserved. That said…

Their underlying argument is interesting. Their argument is that a man, who has an operation to become a woman, should not be allowed to play in woman’s sports. In the specific case they’re talking about, its a pre-op transgender.

Now, i don’t want to turn this into a thread about gender issues or whether people think its gross, immoral, courageous, wonderful, whatever. I want to get everyone’s thoughts on whether or not its “fair” for someone who is biologically male to participate in women’s sports.

I personally don’t think it is, and only for competitive issues. There’s a reason athletics are generally segregated by gender. Generally speaking, men are typically stronger, tougher, and faster than women. Pre-op or post-op, hormones or not, the individual still has the underlying bone and muscle structure of a male. Allowing such individuals to compete against people who are biologically female gives them an unfair competitive advantage. For that reason, I don’t think they should be allowed to participate in women’s professional sports. It’s just not fair to everyone else. That’s my opinion. What’s yours?

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

while i agree w stronger and faster, i wouldn't necessarily say that men are tougher than women.

i say let them have at it.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

You should play with the cards you're dealt. If you've got a man's body you should play male sports and vice versa. If you are born without legs you don't run track. It's all the same argument to me.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

I'm hoping this thread stays civil. Lots of issues here.

Personally, when it comes to athletics, I have no problem with transgendered individuals playing on cisgendered teams. But I think all things being considered, it's probably more likely that trans-man will end up having to play on a cisgen woman's team.

I have a ridiculous amount of trans friends and I know for them, they are living their life fully as their new gender and to them, (lets say its a trans-man) being told they have to play on a woman's team is actually emasculating for them. Transpeople know that its going to be an uphill battle once they start living their life as a new gender, but they don't expect people to make provisions for them as if they can't hack it (or for trans-woman, have an extra advantage) with their cisgen counterparts.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=los panda;974439]while i agree w stronger and faster, i wouldn't necessarily say that men are tougher than women.

i say let them have at it.[/quote]

Let who have at it?

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974440]You should play with the cards you're dealt. If you've got a man's body you should play male sports and vice versa. [B]If you are born without legs you don't run track[/B]. It's all the same argument to me.[/quote]

Tell that to this guy

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius]Oscar Pistorius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974444]Let who have at it?[/quote]anyone

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;974450]Tell that to this guy

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius]Oscar Pistorius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url][/quote]

I absolutely would.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=los panda;974457]anyone[/quote]

Men in woman's sports?

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974469]I absolutely would.[/quote]

That's pretty horrible. I think anyone has the right to play as they want. They know the risks, advantages and disadvantages of entering such a field of work. It's as bad as saying women shouldn't be on the front lines of the military or work on submarines. Archaic thinking.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;974476]That's pretty horrible. I think anyone has the right to play as they want. They know the risks, advantages and disadvantages of entering such a field of work. It's as bad as saying women shouldn't be on the front lines of the military or work on submarines. Archaic thinking.[/quote]

He was born with an inability to run naturally. Just like I am born without the ability to throw a 97 mph fastball. But if I take steroids to enable me to do so it is cheating. If he uses man-made legs it isn't? That's not logical to me.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974488]He was born with an inability to run naturally. Just like I am born without the ability to throw a 97 mph fastball. But if I take steroids to enable me to do so it is cheating. If he uses man-made legs it isn't? That's not logical to me.[/quote]

Well the runner aside, because he's in the paraolympics now... They did make a rule saying olympians have to have real legs (that's my lay way of saying it, not the pretty technical way)

I still think it's not hurting anyone if a trans gendered person plays with cisgendered people.

It's not like Kobe Bryant slapping on a wig and a dress. This is someone who's undertaken years of hormone therapy and physically and psychologically believes they are meant to be their new gender.

Topic just hits home to me because I know so many people who are transgendered and the world hasn't exactly understood or adapted to the idea that even though a man was born male, doesn't mean he is.

I understand your point though.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

Get your popcorn ready...

Over/under on posts til this is locked?

Hmmmm

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=Mattyk;974499]Get your popcorn ready...

Over/under on posts til this is locked?

Hmmmm[/quote]

Won't make it past 3 pages. $5

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=Mattyk;974499]Get your popcorn ready...

Over/under on posts til this is locked?

Hmmmm[/quote]

Post #35

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

What rule? He ran at the last Olympics. I think it is awesome that he can un at the paraolympics. As far a trans-gendered athletes I really have no problem with female-born athletes competing "up" if they can hack it. As for the other way around that patently unfair to me.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=Mattyk;974499]Get your popcorn ready...

Over/under on posts til this is locked?

Hmmmm[/quote]

Won't be Rave or me. Pretty sure we're both civil enough.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974509]What rule? He ran at the last Olympics. I think it is awesome that he can un at the paraolympics. As far a trans-gendered athletes I really have no problem with female-born athletes competing "up" if they can hack it. As for the other way around that patently unfair to me.[/quote]

Fair enough. I can meet you half way on that.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974510]Won't be Rave or me. Pretty sure we're both civil enough.[/quote]

I wasn't looking at you two.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;974498]Topic just hits home to me because I know so many people who are transgendered and the world hasn't exactly understood or adapted to the idea that even though a man was born male, doesn't mean he is.

I understand your point though.[/quote]

We have a responsibility to help society adapt and accept these people while changing the way our culture works to allow them to live and function on the same level. We don't have to change the fundamentals of the way we operate sports to account though. Part of the fabric of sports is that the participants begin on equal footing in terms of athletics. Gender matters, natural skills matter. Start messing around with that stuff and we're changing the basics of the games.

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[quote=Mattyk;974521]I wasn't looking at you two.[/quote]

I know I'm getting out before Rave hands me my ass.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974523]We have a responsibility to help society adapt and accept these people while changing the way our culture works to allow them to live and function on the same level. We don't have to change the fundamentals of the way we operate sports to account though. Part of the fabric of sports is that the participants begin on equal footing in terms of athletics. Gender matters, natural skills matter. Start messing around with that stuff and we're changing the basics of the games.[/quote]

I see where you're coming from. I hope there's some way that things balance out in regards to the world of sports.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=FRPLG;974470]Men in woman's sports?[/quote]if they can legally use the ladies room, sure

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;974401]
First of all, let me say that I loathe Polin and Czban. I'm sick and tired of them complaining about RGIII taking hits, and saying he should just be a drop back passer. They're morons and i'm glad they’re off the air. I cant stand listening to them. They’re comments were pretty insensitive and crude, and their suspension is deserved. That said…

[/quote]

Well the thing is they're right about that at least in the long run. The running aspects of RG3's game is simply being used to give him a chance to create something when he can't find a receiver. Make no mistake about it he's light years ahead of any rookie QB I've seen at reading coverage but at the end of the day he's still a rookie with a very basic understanding of reading and reacting to NFL defenses. With his running he's able to gain yards when most other rookie QB's would throw incomplete passes, ints, or get sacked.

Even RG3 has constantly said he is and wants to develop as a pocket passer and actually invoked a point I had been saying for years when arguing against guys like Vick. The ball travels a lot faster through the air then it does on the ground. Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees none of these guys run yet they allow their teams to dominate offensively. I don't mind the running now but eventually the running has to stop. Luckily RG3 seems to want to move in that direction as well and unlike Vick he's capable of doing it.

Sorry I know this is about TG athletes but the thought makes me more lightheaded then sex ed in 8th grade. "ALL RIGHT KIDS NOW THIS IS SYPHILIS!"

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Maybe it's because I'm an out of towner but I never got the appeal of Czban to start with. He always came off as a pompous a-hole who was never happy unless he was complaining about something.

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Czabe is horrible. And he and Knoche were beyond offensive "I think the proper term is 'it', she must be Russian (or something like that)"

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Where do you draw the line? If you're going to allow gender reassignment then why not genetically modified everything else. Get them synapses firing quick time, gene spliced athletes for all!

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[quote=RedskinRat;974598]Where do you draw the line? If you're going to allow gender reassignment then why not genetically modified everything else. Get them synapses firing quick time, gene spliced athletes for all![/quote]

Doesn't have anything to do with genetics. Physical and hormone changes only.

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Simply put, a woman will never ever professionally compete with a man on a physical level (without the intervention of some drugs). If they can, I'm all for them competing with men if they so choose to. However, I'm not in favor a woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body competing against women. It presents a unfair advantage. There are professionally gay athletes that compete against their own sex and that's how it should stay.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=NC_Skins;974609]Simply put, a woman will never ever professionally compete with a man on a physical level (without the intervention of some drugs). If they can, I'm all for them competing with men if they so choose to. However, I'm not in favor a woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body competing against women. It presents a unfair advantage. There are professionally gay athletes that compete against their own sex and that's how it should stay.[/quote]

Also not necessarily gay.

I know I'm being nitpicky, but gotta know the fundamentals of transgenders.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

Just last month I went into the ladies room by mistake to take a piss. It was awkward because I was sure where I was supposed to be(in the men's room) but there were no urinals. I simply shrugged my shoulders and squeezed into a stall without being able to close the door behind me. Then all of the sudden I kept hearing/feeling people walking swiftly past me. I turned my head around to see a woman and her young daughter standing there petrified while I finished reliving myself. They ran out of there and I followed when I thought the close was clear...

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=RGIII;974614]Just last month I went into the ladies room by mistake to take a piss. It was awkward because I was sure where I was supposed to be(in the men's room) but there were no urinals. I simply shrugged my shoulders and squeezed into a stall without being able to close the door behind me. Then all of the sudden I kept hearing/feeling people walking swiftly past me. I turned my head around to see a woman and her young daughter standing there petrified while I finished reliving myself. They ran out of there and I followed when I thought the close was clear...[/quote]

Now this thread is getting somewhere.

I'm taking the over on 7 pages and it might reach epic status.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

If you say yes, you also have to consider whether it's fair to the cisgendered athletes? I don't know what "fair" is myself, but can think of some possibilities where it may be questionable. It's an interesting discussion to have, if it doesn't go 980 route.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

Men play men sports and women play women sports. We could change this and call it the Lorena Bobbitt rule. I guess we could call it the d*&k in the bush rule.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

This thread makes me think of three others: that terrible movie "Juwanna Mann", Baylor basketball star Brittney Griner, and Caster Semenya.

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2009/09/10/caster-semenya-tests-reve_n_282584.html]Caster Semenya HERMAPHRODITE?: Tests Reveal South African Sprinter Has Both Male, Female Characteristics: REPORT[/url]

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

If they keep changing the rules we will have womens football.

[QUOTE=firstdown;974711]Men play men sports and women play women sports. We could change this and call it the Lorena Bobbitt rule. I guess we could call it the d*&k in the bush rule.[/QUOTE]

There it is. The post that sends this thread spiraling?

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

[quote=firstdown;974711]Men play men sports and women play women sports. We could change this and call it the Lorena Bobbitt rule. I guess we could call it the d*&k in the bush rule.[/quote]

first? Seriously? I think everyone was having a nice civil discussion without resorting to high school snickering and joking around. Poor timing...and you were doing so well in the other thread.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

I have a question. This isn't rhetorical and I have no idea if it is even possible. Assume a male athlete goes through the exact same hormone therapy a transgender going from female --> male goes through, would they get a competitive advantage due to increased (possibly to dangerous levels?) testosterone/etc?

To me, the fact that they're transgender doesn't equate into the equation at all. It comes down to sports providing a fair and equal setting for people to compete. Athletes are a mix of naturally gifted and driven. Keeping PEDs and other advantages out of sports is important to keeping such treatment from becoming mandatory in order to compete.

That's why I'm against the carbon-fiber legs running in the Olympics. Every decision you make in life has consequences, changing your gender may have the consequence of giving up [b]competitive[/b] sports. I think it's fair to say the person in question, had they been born a woman, would not be 6'8.

When it comes to the actual radio personalities. They should not have been suspended. Part of being a sports talk host is creating controversy and sparking conversation. When it comes to topics like this, if you're uncomfortable with the topic or don't agree with what they're saying -- then change the god damn channel. It's really not that hard, the only time I feel there is a case is when someone hears something like that and they lack the ability to get away from something that deeply offends them. People have the right to their opinion, and there are times that opinion is offensive to me. I ignore those shows.

Re: Transgendered Athletes in Professional Sports
 

good god, Ive heard Czab and Sully say much worse. Czab is entertaining the same way Stern is and ima fan of both.

That being said, Id say let'm play where ever they want male or female side. But if you do, you must clearly understand people will be critical and thats just part of the gig unfortunately.