Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Washington's new man in the middle is Lemar Marshall, who performed admirably in place of injured LaVar Arrington on the weak side last year.

Not only do the Redskins apparently have no plans to pursue such available inside linebackers as Pittsburgh's Kendrell Bell and Baltimore's Ed Hartwell, they don't plan to increase their standing $10 million bonus offer to Fred Smoot, leaving it up to the cornerback to find a better deal from Kansas City or another suitor and then decide if he'll return to Washington.


[url]http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20050304-121358-4055r.htm[/url]

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

man... lamar marshall is smaller than sean taylor.

how in the hell is he going to holdup in the middle?

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

The same way undersized Pierce did.

This is good news!

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

pierce was 242lbs marshall is 228lbs.... and not known for being a heavy hitter... weeel see

pierce being undersized means marshall has alot to overcome

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Can Barrow even play? Does he still exist? What's up?

I like Marshall, and he knows the system, but it'll take some work to make it fly. Fortunatley, we've got Williams.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

And if not smoot, are we gonna stand pat there too? Talk about playing it quiet in FA!

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

I love the attitude that Joe Gibbs brings. We could have had Pierce, but it would have thrown the salary structure out of whack for the first two years, so no deal.

Fred Smoot, we are offering you terrific money, and we aren't going to let the market drive our price higher. We feel we are paying you a fair amount for the good skills and ability you bring, but we won't overpay.

We lose Pierce - and we promote Marshall, who served so well last year in place of Arrington. Marshall, the undrafted guy who has drifted from team to team, and made his name with us first through special teams. Say hello to the new starting middle linebacker on the NFL's best defense. No big shot free agents need apply.

And with Pierce, I think it is better that we let him go - that one line of his kind of gave his goals away - he wants to make a name for himself, and New York is the best place for him to do it he said. For almost the same money he could have been a part of the Redskins, but he wanted the New York lights. That's fine, and I don't mean to criticize him. It just isn't the team first attitude that we need here, in my view.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]And if not smoot, are we gonna stand pat there too? Talk about playing it quiet in FA![/QUOTE]
I hope that Smoot resigns, but if he dont then I hope that we do stand pat there too!! I mean Gibbs is clearly trying to accomplish 2 things:

1.) He is trying to build us a winning team that will contend for the super bowl

and

2.) He is trying to build the winning team at a lower cost!! Saving the team from salary cap hell.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

this is awful

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Shane - I wouldn't be so sure we don't let the market drive our price. We need a CB and we may as well retain Smoot. Lucas got a big deal and he's not even as good as Smoot.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Shane - I wouldn't be so sure we don't let the market drive our price. We need a CB and we may as well retain Smoot. Lucas got a big deal and he's not even as good as Smoot.[/QUOTE]

I think teams are most successful when they have a strong sense of their principles and their boundaries and are willing to risk being a little poorer in talent for awhile rather than to bend themselves out of shape and go against those principles for short term gain and, let's say, overpay for a free agent.

I like to see a team with a strong identity and a strong sense of togetherness, cooperation and collective aspiration. If you are bending yourself out of shape to sign free agents and if you are afraid to promote players from within and have faith in them and do the hard work of teaching them adequately, then you don't have a strong identity of what your team is about - you are always looking where the grass is greener somewhere else, at some sparkling free agent, etc.

You want players to want to come to you because you are so attractive to them, like Rabach or Patten, rather than you falling over yourself to sign someone out of fear you lack something.

The Atlanta Falcons signed someone last year I was reading, paying way over market price for Jason Webster, because they had cut everyone at that position and were desperate. That wasn't a great way to manage things. Then he got injured.

To be willing to promote from within really motivates all the players because they know they will get a chance if they play themselves into the role. Lemar Marshall no doubt sensed he would be given opportunity on this team and he played his heart out in place of Arrington, and now will be our starting middle linebacker.

We have players on our roster right now who could be super players at cornerback, or do a very good job. To re-sign Smoot is a good move at the right price because Smoot has earned that. But if it throws out our salary structure, to me it means we are prostrating ourselves out of fear and I don't think that helps us.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

What does this say about Smoot and his asking price if teams like Dallas and Carolina are passing him up? I mean Carolina gave Lucus(SP) almost a small mint and I dont think that he is as good as Smoot is. Even KC is supposed to look at Smoot, but from what I have ben reading you can tell that they really want Rolle.

One would think that after seening your peers get these offers and your name not even mentioned it might motivate you to go back to your orginal team and show everyone that they f*cked up by not getting you!!

With that being said I hope that Smoot comes back!!!

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Hate to see Antonio leave. Liked him from the start. But Marshall has shown he can play and who says Barrow can't come back to be the man this year he was supposed to be last season? 'Skins are deep at LB, and might be deeper if they draft one next month.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

gotta agree with shane on this one... and i think many of us saw marshal's chance coming in the last couple days. That said, let's get smoot back and draft williams, so i can consider this a great offseason (well, great after watching a preseason game and seeing what a beasst marshall will be at MLB :P)

honestly pierce's statement made it sound like he rather make a name for himself and he did want the money or a chance to emerge as a star instead of a guy who filled in between arrington and washington... before free agency he said the offer would have to blow him away, but apparently our best offer was pretty close, so i wish him the best (he did give us a chance to match, and that's really all you can ask for), but i don't really feel that bad about loing him right now... (if marshall gets injured or plays poorly i might change my mind though).

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]pierce was 242lbs marshall is 228lbs.... and not known for being a heavy hitter... weeel see

pierce being undersized means marshall has alot to overcome[/QUOTE]
Since Marshall handled himself well in place of Lavar (253 lbs.), we should give him a chance.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Shane makes some excellent points. Gibbs is showing he has a much better understanding of the salary cap this offseason, and he is protecting the team's long-term interests in regard to the salary cap projections for the next 3 years or so.

Apparently, the Skins' offer to Pierce was very close to what the Giants offered him, with the primary difference being that the Redskins' offer contained smaller salary numbers over the first two years of the contract. Obviously, those first two years are critical, in that the Skins need cap room for this offseason to sign other players and possibly move Coles, while also needing to minimize the cap impact in 2006, which is slated to be a harsh cap year for the Skins.

The Giants had the edge in that they were willing to give Pierce just enough money in the first two years to make it hard for the Skins to match. Gibbs made the tough decision, but it was the right decision. Pierce will be missed, but not so much that it would have been worth exacerbating the team's tenuous salary cap situation over the next two years to keep him.

The same principle holds true for Smoot, and any other player that wants more money than the team can reasonably afford to pay within the parameters of their salary cap projections.

Give Gibbs some credit for finally bringing some sensibility to this team's free agency strategy.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

There are few people who would say Lucas is a better corner than Smoot and even fewer who would say Henry is. Both guy git big deals. The Skins offering $10,000,000 as a SB is UNDERPAYING him based on the market. Guess what guys...everything is driven by the market. It seems silly to me to say we should go with less talent just so we can stand on principle or something. What freaking principle? The principle that we think we know how much a CB should cost and we won't pay enough to keep a quality one? That seems remarkably arrogant and doomed to failure. Corner is the highest paid position in the league for a reason. It is the HARDEST position to play and the difference between a good CB and an average CB is tremendous for a defense. We are going to lose a guy simply because we are being hard headed about what we offer him. There IS A WAY to get this done that is suitable for everyone. If there wasn't then the rhetoric from Redskins park would be more to the effect that they just can't afford the guy much like they did with Pierce. They decided he wasn't worth the money the Giants we're going to pay him. If the Skins don't think Smoot is worth what he is seeking then they need to look no further than the recent CB deals to show them they are wrong. Unless of course they think Lucas and Henry are better CBs. In that case then it is reasonable to pay Smoot less in their mind. Otherwise up the ante or get of the game for Smoot. Additinally I haven't seen anywhere that teams are passing Smoot up. He just started taking visits yesterday and both Dallas and Carolina were so in need of a CB that they jumped in early to avoid missing the boat on CBs and over paying even more once a huge market is set. Time to wise up at Redskins park and make a decision whether they really are going to try and resign quality players before our team is a shell next year.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Shane, brilliant post. I'm not going to quote it because it was long as hell, but it was well worth reading. Promoting players from within does several things:

1) As Shane said, motivates players to play hard in hopes of one day becoming a starter and earning more cash.

2) Motivates players by providing them the feeling that when they do get promoted, they've earned the respect of the coaching staff and they're teammates.

3) Fosters trust between the players and the coaching staff. They know that if they play hard, they'll be given a fair shot.

4) And when you pay free agents a ton of money, and you don't give your own guys a chance to earn their keep, you create a divide in the locker room. The guys who have paid their dues as Redskins will get jealous of the guys who just came in and got big money.

And after Gregg Williams hit on all of his personnel moves last year, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he thinks Marshall can start and play well, then I believe him.

And besides, Williams turned straw into gold last year on defense. I say let him try to do it again, and spend the money upgrading the offense.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Give Gibbs some credit for finally bringing some sensibility to this team's free agency strategy.[/QUOTE]

This team was built to win now! But basically we're going into rebuild mode by letting the quality players leave. We are going to have LESS TALENT next year returning from a team that was 6-10! Does this sound like a good plan? It is not unless we admit they're simply going to start to jetison anyone who cost any money. This is so frustrating. We had two guys who WERE ANCHORS on our defense which basically won us 6 games last year. We have lost one because we decided we couldn't afford him and now we'll lose another because we are too stubborn to simply pay him what he is worth.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

I agree with Shane in terms of signing Free Agents but when it comes to your own players it seems like it might also be motivational for players to know that their team values them and wants to reward them with a fair market deal rather than low balling them hoping they'll take the financial hit just to stay in the same place. Doing otherwise simply fosters dicontinuity since every player plays his 3 or 4 year contract and then leaves for greener pastures when the Skins low ball 'em. Our fundamental personnel issue has been that we sign too many outside free agents while never teaching and promoting from within. Finally we have a chance to turn that course and we go in a totally wrong direction. I hope I am wrong and we can find quality guys to replace Smoot and Pierce but it is a big gamble to simply assume we can when we know they were quality players for us.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

There's some sentiment around the league that the cornerback market is overvalued now, due to the impact of the new rules enforcements that were effected last season, which have essentially made "shut-down" corners a thing of the past. The current market value has been inflated by contracts signed by upper-echelon cornerbacks over the past 3 or 4 years, when players such as Ty Law and Champ Bailey-- corners who truly fit the rare "shut-down" label when it was applicable-- signed huge contracts with enormous signing bonuses. While talented cornerbacks are certainly still a valuable commodity, there is a feeling they are no longer as valuable as the "fair market value" would suggest.

Given the way Bailey was burned repeatedly last season, perhaps there is some credence to that theory.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

i saw 3-4 broncos games last year, and champ looked awful in all of them... his tackle count is high cause he lets his receivers catch the ball i guess... every game i saw him fall down on his face. Anyways, I still think we should get smoot signed or look into rolle, but caving 1-3mill on a 6 year deal wouldn't be horrible since this is a really crappy free agency in terms of overall talent available. He hasn't been better than springs, but he's younger and this IS a bad year to be a buyer of talent.

A Calm, Reassuring Offseason
 

Our biggest fault over the last half decade has been our unbridled spending sprees in the offseasons. While it is exciting for fans like us to see the big names sport the burgundy and gold, I am confident in our team president, and coach.

People pretend that Joe Gibbs has no experience dealing with limits on cash flow. This year, Joe Gibbs racing increased size 50% to add another driver in NASCAR. He has built that team from scratch, initially with his own money, and now with his sponsers money. Needless to say, Joe understands the sliding value of money.

And even more importantly, Joe understands talent. We have a very confident, and calm leadership on this team now, and I am content with the change between last offseason, and this one.

It is very common in all sports to look to the top for guidance. So we find ourselves looking at the New England Patriots, who have been making difficult decisions for 5 years now. The same 5 years that we have been overpaying for talent, the patriots have been cutting talent.

My point is, in building a football program, it's not only about risks, its about caution and patience as well. Hail to the Redskins.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

I really like the idea of promoting from within rather than seeking out big named and high priced free agents.

Gibbs definitely has his eye down the road cap wise, and since Marshall filled in very well last year it's a wise decision to give him a crack at starting in the middle. Gotta love his cap # too.

He's a little light at 228, but he could probably add 10 pounds before next season without losing much speed or quickness.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

It makes no sense to overpay for a CB just because everyone else in the league is overpaying for free agent CBs. Ken Lucas gets $13 million, Anthony Henry gets $10 million, so therefore that means we SHOULD pay Smoot $14 million?

While I agree that Smoot is better than Lucas or Henry, that doesn't mean you necessarily pay up to get him. It's true that the market drives prices, and because of Lucas and Henry, I'm sure Smoot will command $14 million. By paying the market price for Smoot we would be acknowledging that we think the market is fairly valued for free agent CBs.

Do you really think that's the case? Every columnist talks about how teams have more cap room this year than ever before, and the free agent talent is so much thinner than ever before. If the supply of cap dollars is up, and the supply of free agent talent is down, then the price if those free agents skyrockets as teams figure "well, we've got all this cap room, might as well use it."

Problem is we don't have tons of cap room. And even if we did, paying the market rate for a free agent CB doesn't make it a smart way to spend cap dollars.

What would you rather have, Walt Harris at $1.5 million against the cap, or Smoot at $4.5 million against the cap? I'd take Harris. I don't think Smoot is 3 times better than Harris.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

I think Marshall will do just fine at MLB. He already knows the system, and last year he proved that he can play at a high level.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I really like the idea of promoting from within rather than seeking out big named and high priced free agents.

Gibbs definitely has his eye down the road cap wise, and since Marshall filled in very well last year it's a wise decision to give him a crack at starting in the middle. Gotta love his cap # too.

He's a little light at 228, but he could probably add 10 pounds before next season without losing much speed or quickness.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, AP bulked up quite a bit to play MLB last year. He was about the size of Marshall in past years.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Let the young guys step up and play. The only way they'll get good is by being on the field.

Re: A Calm, Reassuring Offseason
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]Our biggest fault over the last half decade has been our unbridled spending sprees in the offseasons. While it is exciting for fans like us to see the big names sport the burgundy and gold, I am confident in our team president, and coach.

People pretend that Joe Gibbs has no experience dealing with limits on cash flow. This year, Joe Gibbs racing increased size 50% to add another driver in NASCAR. He has built that team from scratch, initially with his own money, and now with his sponsers money. Needless to say, Joe understands the sliding value of money.

And even more importantly, Joe understands talent. We have a very confident, and calm leadership on this team now, and I am content with the change between last offseason, and this one.

It is very common in all sports to look to the top for guidance. So we find ourselves looking at the New England Patriots, who have been making difficult decisions for 5 years now. The same 5 years that we have been overpaying for talent, the patriots have been cutting talent.

My point is, in building a football program, it's not only about risks, its about caution and patience as well. Hail to the Redskins.[/QUOTE]

Well put..........I agree

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

we'll sign someone, trust in gibbs. The report is from the times who, they're not known for great quality reporting.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

What really sucks about losing Pierce is it needn't have happened if somebody had spotted his ability and we had given him more than a 1 year contract last year.

I remember Marty Schottenheimer saying he loved him from day one, shame nobody on the current staff felt the same way.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Problem is nobody saw this coming from Pierce. If Barrow didn't get hurt Pierce wouldn't have had the same opportunity. You can't lock up your reserves long term, you need that money for your stars.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

I don't really think we lost out as much as every says by Pierce going to the Giants. I think he is a good player with mediocre talent, but excellent instinct. He always seems to be in the right place, but I just don't see him being worth 25 mil over 6 or whatever they gave him. He only had one good year and it was a contract year. He did play well when he was a rookie, though, right before we picked up Jesse Armstead. I think we'll be fine without him, though. I don't think he's particularly impressive.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=joecrisp]There's some sentiment around the league that the cornerback market is overvalued now, due to the impact of the new rules enforcements that were effected last season, which have essentially made "shut-down" corners a thing of the past. The current market value has been inflated by contracts signed by upper-echelon cornerbacks over the past 3 or 4 years, when players such as Ty Law and Champ Bailey-- corners who truly fit the rare "shut-down" label when it was applicable-- signed huge contracts with enormous signing bonuses. While talented cornerbacks are certainly still a valuable commodity, there is a feeling they are no longer as valuable as the "fair market value" would suggest.

Given the way Bailey was burned repeatedly last season, perhaps there is some credence to that theory.[/QUOTE]


Took the word's out of my mouth JC, I do think some of the team's are out thinking themselves believing that they really need a better CB to compete with the new rules, when in actuality no CB can really do that anymore, but they are overpaying for player's who are really not going to make a big difference, as you said there are very few legitimate shutdown CB's, to overpay for a CB who will get burned as much as a lesser talented CB because of the new rules may not be to smart.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

I personally am not as high on Marshall as a lot of other's I think we can do better either in the draft or another venue, I do believe if any player on our defense was made to look better than he really is because of William's it was Marshall, I could be wrong but I just think we shouldn't put all our egg's in 1 basket on this guy, I believe we can do much better.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

Getting back-ups to step up when needed and promoting from within.....not being afraid to let "star" players go if they become too expensive. Hmmm....that reminds me of someone....oh yeah, the 3-time SB champion Patriots!!! As much as wanted Pierce and Smoot to stay, I really like how Gibbs is managing things.

As for Marshall, it is March! A LOT can happen before the season starts! I see an intense training camp competition between Barrow (if healthy), Marshall, and whoever else could be a good fit at MLB (Barnes, Smith, new rookie, etc). Maybe it will be Marshall, maybe not....I have complete confidence in Coach Williams.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]What does this say about Smoot and his asking price if teams like Dallas and Carolina are passing him up? I mean Carolina gave Lucus(SP) almost a small mint and I dont think that he is as good as Smoot is. Even KC is supposed to look at Smoot, but from what I have ben reading you can tell that they really want Rolle. [/QUOTE]

I thought the same thing Redskin8588 about how strange that Dallas didn't even make a nibble toward Smoot........'course Parcell seems to be partial to signing OLDER guys :) But now with Carolina signing Lucus,Smoot seems to be ahead at the bargaining table......................

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Problem is nobody saw this coming from Pierce. If Barrow didn't get hurt Pierce wouldn't have had the same opportunity. You can't lock up your reserves long term, you need that money for your stars.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. Ohh, the experts love to hate us.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

well michael barrow should retire. i wouldn't want a 35 year old playing middle linebacker. he's missed a full season. we should release him. i guess we're just gonna have to experiment with lemar marshall.

Re: Marshall tabbed to replace Pierce
 

If we release him we take the cap hit all at once, I believe. This could cause problems. Just a year ago Barrow could play - let's give him that chance again. If his knee isn't healthy we'll be fine. Marshall played great at OLB. If he can't do the job we'll get someone in the draft (Brooks would be nice, but may command a really high pick and will be expensive.)