Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

Today San Francisco 49ers Chris Culver said, "gays aren't welcome" in the locker room. Obviously in today's culture of PC, homosexuality and equality is still a very sensitive issue. But homosexuals in sports remains one of the last cultural barriers and is very much taboo.

Now I think discrimination of any sort is reprehensible, gays included. But I found myself being somewhat sympathetic to Culver's comments, while disagreeing with his view on gays. There's something so barbaric about the sport that I almost expect our other sensibilities to end where the sport begins. I don't expect football players on the gridiron to behave like we do in society. When I'm watching football, I've temporarily suspended most of what I believe to be decent and humane.

I guess to put it more plainly. If a team or a player don't have a problem with homosexuals, fine. Neither do I. If they do and don't want gay players on the team, I'm inclined to say I don't see a problem with that either.

Am I wrong? Where do you stand?

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

Well in todays world your totally wrong. They have as much right to play football as they do to being a moderator of a football forum.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I didn't ask about today's world. I made it clear, I don't stand by discrimination. But I'm having a tough time reconciling that with the culture of the NFL.

I asked how do you feel? And should we flip out because Culver said what he said.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

When you bring this subject up down here in the Lone Star state everyone immediately starts to defend Troy Aikman for some strange reason. :nono::boxing::stop:

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

Lennay Kekua supports gays in the NFL

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=12thMan;991868]I didn't ask about today's world. I made it clear, I don't stand by discrimination. But I'm having a tough time reconciling that with the culture of the NFL.

I asked how do you feel? And should we flip out because Culver said what he said.[/quote]

Seems like your sterotyping gays as weak and not as a tougher football player type of person. Personally I don't care if any of the players on the Skins was gay but I could understand a player having issue with gays in the locker room. They all ready let women in not sure if it would even be a big deal among players.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I support it whole heartedly, but I guess I'm kind of biased.

People seem to think of gays as these soft, wimpy men. And granted, some gays are softer than others, but I've watched a gay guy beat down someone who called him a fag all on his own. None of that sissy fighting stereotype, he beat that's guy's ass fair and square.

Culver has a right to his opinion and feelings and voicing them. But I doubt that's going to stop gays for too much longer.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I'm willing to bet Chris Culliver is a self hating homosexual.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

Manti Te'o is about to be in the NFL and hes gay so...

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=firstdown;991871]Seems like your sterotyping gays as weak and not as a tougher football player type of person. Personally I don't care if any of the players on the Skins was gay but I could understand a player having issue with gays in the locker room. They all ready let women in not sure if it would even be a big deal among players.[/quote]

It shouldn't be a huge deal, gays in the locker room. As someone attracted to men and women, its not like I can't control myself around straight women.

Seriously. We don't want them.

I'm assuming it's the same way for gay guys, just because there's some straight dude around you, it's not like you're going to try to play grab ass.

Really. Not even close.

p.s. I'm not bitching at your post. lol I'm really agreeing. :P

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I think that jackass needs to be fined and suspended. Hell, I would think long and hard about even cutting him before the Super Bowl. No way, no how would I tolerate any type of hate in regards to a persons race or sexuality. I hate to tell this dumbass something, but he lives in San Fransisco. Last time I checked, it was a huge community for the LBGT.


In fact, I would either suspend him for the Super Bowl of flat out cut him. It's going to be a shame to see the organization merely slap his hand.(if they do anything)

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I could care less if someone is gay or straight. I don't need to hear about it either way.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=firstdown;991866]Well in todays world your totally wrong. They have as much right to play football [B]as they do to being a moderator of a football forum[/B].[/quote]


Is one of the moderators here a gay??!?!?!?!?

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I bet i know who it is too!

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;991879]I could care less if someone is gay or straight. I don't need to hear about it either way.[/quote]

Yeah, I have to say I feel the same way.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=12thMan;991863]Today San Francisco 49ers Chris Culver said, "gays aren't welcome" in the locker room. Obviously in today's culture of PC, homosexuality and equality is still a very sensitive issue. But homosexuals in sports remains one of the last cultural barriers and is very much taboo.

Now I think discrimination of any sort is reprehensible, gays included. But I found myself being somewhat sympathetic to Culver's comments, while disagreeing with his view on gays. There's something so barbaric about the sport that I almost expect our other sensibilities to end where the sport begins. I don't expect football players on the gridiron to behave like we do in society. When I'm watching football, I've temporarily suspended most of what I believe to be decent and humane.

I guess to put it more plainly. If a team or a player don't have a problem with homosexuals, fine. Neither do I. If they do and don't want gay players on the team, I'm inclined to say I don't see a problem with that either.

Am I wrong? Where do you stand?[/quote]

I don't think you're wrong. Guys may feel uncomfortable around a gay guy cause you have to shower with him and he's going to see you naked, things like that. Let's say practice is over and it's just the gay guy and myself. I wouldn't feel comfortable in that situation. As time goes on it might not be a problem. I have no problem with gay guys in general. My ex girlfriend had a good friend that was a gay guy and we went to gay bars with him from time to time.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=12thMan;991863][B]Today San Francisco 49ers Chris Culver said, "gays aren't welcome" in the locker room.[/B] Obviously in today's culture of PC, homosexuality and equality is still a very sensitive issue. But homosexuals in sports remains one of the last cultural barriers and is very much taboo.

[B]Now I think discrimination of any sort is reprehensible, gays included.[/B] But I found myself being somewhat sympathetic to Culver's comments, while disagreeing with his view on gays. There's something so barbaric about the sport that I almost expect our other sensibilities to end where the sport begins. I don't expect football players on the gridiron to behave like we do in society. When I'm watching football, I've temporarily suspended most of what I believe to be decent and humane.

[B]I guess to put it more plainly. If a team or a player don't have a problem with homosexuals, fine. Neither do I. If they do and don't want gay players on the team, I'm inclined to say I don't see a problem with that either.[/B]

Am I wrong? Where do you stand?[/quote]

1) Why the hell would a player from San Fran (of all places) say that right before the superbowl? Nothing like a nice distraction for the team before what will like be the biggest day for many of their lives. How could making this statement help your team win?

2) I think private organizations should be able to discriminate.

3) It sounds like you do to. If Tebow proves to be a distraction because he's a spokesman for [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Christianity[/FONT][/COLOR], then i got no problem with him being payed less or not considered for a certain job (player, coach, tv). If a gay dude cant get a try out or gets paid less bcause he causes issues in the lockerroom because he's gay.... or more likely because of all the attention he will get, then its no big deal either. If a female makes it to the NFL, then i got no problem with her being paid more than commensurate with on the field performance, because of all the postive attention shell create.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=12thMan;991868]I didn't ask about today's world. I made it clear, I don't stand by discrimination. But I'm having a tough time reconciling that with the culture of the NFL.

I asked how do you feel? And should we flip out because Culver said what he said.[/quote]

insensitive especially coming from someone whose fans are in San Francisco and support that franchise so much. I have zero problems with anyone gay anywhere in our society. He should be fined and suspended.

This isnt much different than race imo. 5 to 10 percent of the population is estimated to be gay just like X percent of the population is Y race. Keep your personal views to yourself since this country (thankfully) prevents employment discrimination.

And I love how homophobics think every gay person is going to want to sleep with them or is somehow aroused. So stupid.

Also gay vs straight isnt as black and white as society makes it to be. Its better viewed as a spectrum. Or even in a Cartesian plane with bi sexuality vs non bi sexuality (dont recall the specific term) as the other axis. Actually would be even better if we add a third axis/dimension for asexual vs sexual. Everyone has a point (x, y, z) on that 3d chart. That would be the best way to look at it.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

What makes any of you guys pontificating this belief that if you were in the locker room with a gay guy on the team and in the showers, that he'd give two craps about eyeing you?

A base understanding of human sexuality in general would explain that it doesn't work that way for anyone, gay, straight, bi or whatever.

Jesus Christ.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;991884]2) I think private organizations should be able to discriminate.[/quote]Except its a private company that is regulated by its consumers and their billions of dollars.

Also, the Packers is publicly owned.

So yeah, they are free to discriminate all they want, but if it messes with those greenbacks they will change quickly and accordingly, and we can take the 49ers organization's immediate refutation of this clown's remarks as an acknowledgement that they know all too well this ain't going to go down nicely with its consumers.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

Agreed with both Ash and hoo.

There's a gross stereotype that because if someone is gay that means they're going to be attracted to you. Nobody is that hyper sexual, except for maybe nymphos.

I've never once eyed anyone naked in the locker room. That's just embarrassing and I'd hate for someone to be eyeing me, even if they did find me attractive.

If you feel uncomfortable around someone of a different orientation than you, that says more about you than it does about them.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I question whether the NFL is any less likely to accept homosexuality than the rest of society. Is there any evidence to suggest that the proportion of NFL players who have a problem with homosexuality is any different from that of the broad US population?

It's like when people say the NFL has a problem with DUIs. Really? Until someone shows me that the % of NFL players committing the crime is double the % of the US population that does, I won't buy it.

There are stupids in every walk of life.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=firstdown;991866]Well in todays world your totally wrong. They have as much right to play football as they do to being a moderator of a football forum.[/quote]

Thats a LOLer!

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

Who frikkin cares what any other person does in their free time? Unless a homosexual man tries to ram me in the ass while I'm not looking, consider me 100% ok with whatever they do. It kinda irks me how in your face they are becoming about it tough. Alot of people are moving to the center of this issue, but they are driving the ones who do not agree completely on the other side.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

FWIW, I have no problem with gays in general or gays in the NFL. In case that wasn't clear. I hope it is now.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=mlmpetert;991884]
2) I think private organizations should be able to discriminate.
[/quote]

On this particular issue (sexual orientation), or in general?

Because the 16th amendment kind of goes against you on all kinds of discrimination except for sexual orientation. Private and public organizations are subject to the amendment which says you can't factor race, gender, religion, ethnicity or nationality into the hiring process.

Private organizations can keep members of certain races, genders, nationalities out. Augusta National comes to mind. Discriminating on prospective memberships are perfectly legal.

But the 49ers locker room isn't a membership, you have to gain employment there to become a part of it. So the 16th amendment applies.

I don't see why one would ever discriminate against sexual orientation but not against race.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8898839/2013-super-bowl-chris-culliver-anti-gay-remarks-rejected-san-francisco-49ers]2013 Super Bowl -- Chris Culliver's anti-gay remarks rejected by San Francisco 49ers - ESPN[/url]


[quote]Culliver, 24, also issued a statement Wednesday apologizing for his remarks.

"[B]The derogatory comments I made yesterday were a reflection of thoughts in my head, but they are not how I feel[/B]," he said in the statement. "It has taken me seeing them in print to realize that they are hurtful and ugly. Those discriminating feelings are truly not in my heart. Further, I apologize to those who I have hurt and offended, and I pledge to learn and grow from this experience."[/quote]


WTF does this even mean? They are a reflection of thoughts in your head, but now how you feel? My god this man is a bigger idiot than I thought.


[quote]Culliver planned to formally address his remarks at a news conference during the 49ers' media availability Thursday morning, according to his personal public relations representative, Theodore Palmer.

"Chris is very apologetic for any harm caused to anyone," Palmer told The Associated Press in a phone interview. "His intent was not that at all. He is one who celebrates the differences of others. All of this was just a big mistake. It was interpreted wrong."[/quote]

WTF is this bullshit? If the 49ers sit on this, the LBGT community should shun them forever. Don't sit there and act like you support their community and let this type of behavior go unpunished.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=Schneed10;991909]On this particular issue (sexual orientation), or in general?

Because the 16th amendment kind of goes against you on all kinds of discrimination except for sexual orientation. Private and public organizations are subject to the amendment which says you can't factor race, gender, religion, ethnicity or nationality into the hiring process.

Private organizations can keep members of certain races, genders, nationalities out. Augusta National comes to mind. Discriminating on prospective memberships are perfectly legal.

But the 49ers locker room isn't a membership, you have to gain employment there to become a part of it. So the 16th amendment applies.

I don't see why one would ever discriminate against sexual orientation but not against race.[/quote]

Ummmm, the 16th Amendment allows the US Congress to levy an income tax.

When it comes to that, I am pretty sure they don't care who you want to sleep with as long as you pay Uncle Sam the green. The govt. is pretty non-discriminatory about it.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

I'm surprised the news media here is not going beserk. If he was a Raven player it would be a different.

Here are some player comments:

[url=http://m.sfgate.com/sfchron/db_41691/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=6q9uQnKF]SFGate.com : What other 49ers say about having a gay teammate[/url]

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;991912]WTF does this even mean? [B]They are a reflection of thoughts in your head, but now how you feel[/B]? My god this man is a bigger idiot than I thought.[/quote]

He didn't inhale either ... or was it swallow?

(Too far?)

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;991913]Ummmm, the 16th Amendment allows the US Congress to levy an income tax.

When it comes to that, I am pretty sure they don't care who you want to sleep with as long as you pay Uncle Sam the green. The govt. is pretty non-discriminatory about it.[/quote]

Ha. I am an ass indeed. Civil Rights Act of 1964, pardon me.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;991878]I think that jackass needs to be fined and suspended. Hell, I would think long and hard about even cutting him before the Super Bowl. No way, no how would I tolerate any type of hate in regards to a persons race or sexuality. I hate to tell this dumbass something, but he lives in San Fransisco. Last time I checked, it was a huge community for the LBGT.


In fact, I would either suspend him for the Super Bowl of flat out cut him. It's going to be a shame to see the organization merely slap his hand.(if they do anything)[/quote]

All he really said is that he didn't want gays in his locker room. I'm sure their are plenty of men who would not feel comfortable walking around nude with a gay in the same bathroom. What happend to his right to free speech.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

There's a thin line between free speech and hate speech.

Just because he said what he was thinking means people are well within their rights to call him an effing insensitive discriminatory idiot.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=firstdown;991918]All he really said is that he didn't want gays in his locker room. I'm sure their are plenty of men who would not feel comfortable walking around nude with a gay in the same bathroom. What happend to his right to free speech.[/quote]



Jackie Robinson faced the same sort of speeches that this idiot delivered. Nobody said he didn't have a right to say what he thought, but the 49ers and any other organization has the right to act as they see fit as well.


Free speech doesn't mean their aren't consequences. If you don't believe me, try some of that "free speech" with your wife and see how that works out.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;991920]Jackie Robinson faced the same sort of speeches that this idiot delivered. Nobody said he didn't have a right to say what he thought, but the 49ers and any other organization has the right to act as they see fit as well.


[B]Free speech doesn't mean their aren't consequences. If you don't believe me, try some of that "free speech" with your wife and see how that works out.[/B][/quote]

:rofl:

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;991920]Jackie Robinson faced the same sort of speeches that this idiot delivered. Nobody said he didn't have a right to say what he thought, but the 49ers and any other organization has the right to act as they see fit as well.


Free speech doesn't mean their aren't consequences. If you don't believe me, [B]try some of that "free speech" with your wife and see how that works out.[/quote][/B]

I'll probably get some.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;991919]There's a thin line between free speech and hate speech.

Just because he said what he was thinking means people are well within their rights to call him an effing insensitive discriminatory idiot.[/quote]

"Hate Speech"? Sorry, didn't realize the thought police were on the patrol.

You, and most of the US adult population, disagree with what he said - but, he is free to say it. You, in turn, are free to call him an ass. To him, or others, however, calling folks with a different viewpoint from yours "an effing insensitive discriminatory idiot" might also qualify as "Hate Speech".

Free speech is free speech and with it you are, in general, free to use hateful speech, unkind speech, vulgar speech, pretty speech, politically correct speech or any of plethora of adjectives you wish to put in front of "speech".

Sorry, the misuse, abuse and misunderstanding of the term "free speech" is a big pet peeve of mine. It is too important a concept to so cavalierly compartmentalized.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;991920]Free speech doesn't mean their aren't consequences.[/quote]

What he said.

Re: Gays in the NFL. How Do You Really Feel?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;991925]"Hate Speech"? Sorry, didn't realize the thought police were on the patrol.

You, and most of the US adult population, disagree with what he said - but, he is free to say it. You, in turn, are free to call him an ass. To him, or others, however, calling folks with a different viewpoint from yours "an effing insensitive discriminatory idiot" might also qualify as "Hate Speech".

Free speech is free speech and with it you are, in general, free to use hateful speech, unkind speech, vulgar speech, pretty speech, politically correct speech or any of plethora of adjectives you wish to put in front of "speech".

Sorry, the misuse, abuse and misunderstanding of the term "free speech" is a big pet peeve of mine. It is too important a concept to so cavalierly compartmentalized.[/quote]

Just so you know, I have nothing against idiots. In fact, I know quite a few.