Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

I've heard this rumor alot about Joe Gibbs, mainly that he had a track record of sticking with veteran QB's, and not benching them even when they struggled at times.

I am too young to remember Joe Gibbs' first time around, although i know well of the veteran QB's that he won super bowls with.

But is it really true? Did he really stick with the vets over younger, possibly better options? I only remember the 2006 season when Joe Gibbs benched Brunell, and i remember nearly all media at that point believed that Brunell was not the problem, that he was only a scapegoat for a team that was completely under-performing.

So was it fan pressure that led to Brunell's benching? Campbell was not really that much better, so why not play Campbell for those remaining games to see what they had, evaluate, and then have a position battle the next year?

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

He got rid of Schroeder after starting one year due to injury with Doug Williams, Doug Williams got injured after winning the SB the following season and was replaced by Rypien. So I would say no.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

I see what you are saying. It seems like he had no choice due to injury at the position. I'm just talking about when a guy was just plain struggling, not moving the ball, etc...

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

When Brunnel got benched he wasn't the only problem, but he was in decline and couldn't throw the ball with velocity. At that point we didn't know anything other than we had a College championship QB we had drafted in the first round.

Then he was thought to be an upgrade to Brunnel and he was, just not to the extent we had all hoped he would be.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1010352]I've heard this rumor alot about Joe Gibbs, mainly that he had a track record of sticking with veteran QB's, and not benching them even when they struggled at times.

I am too young to remember Joe Gibbs' first time around, although i know well of the veteran QB's that he won super bowls with.

But is it really true? Did he really stick with the vets over younger, possibly better options? I only remember the 2006 season when Joe Gibbs benched Brunell, [B]and i remember nearly all media at that point believed that Brunell was not the problem, that he was only a scapegoat for a team that was completely under-performing[/B].

So was it fan pressure that led to Brunell's benching? Campbell was not really that much better, so why not play Campbell for those remaining games to see what they had, evaluate, and then have a position battle the next year?[/quote]

The media absolutely killed Brunell, along with the fans

[url=http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/288/comcastic-voyage]Comcastic Voyage: Tough questions get Skins TV pundit bounced. - Washington City Paper[/url]

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

Gibbs never seem to have any qualms with benching his QB

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

The fact that Jason Campbell couldn't beat out noodle arm Brunell should have told you back then he sucked.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=Mattyk;1010356]The media absolutely killed Brunell, along with the fans

[url=http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/288/comcastic-voyage]Comcastic Voyage: Tough questions get Skins TV pundit bounced. - Washington City Paper[/url][/quote]

Ill never forget that interview as long as I live with Czab vs Brunnell. That was awesome. Alot of people hate Czab, but Boonell was horrible.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

Gibbs never had a problem benching quarterbacks nor going with the hot hand even if the starter was healthy (i.e. 1987 Jay VS Doug.)

At the same time, he preferred letting his young QBs hold a clipboard for a season or two until he felt they were ready. Rypien held a clipboard in '87, and got some playing time in '88 when Williams got hurt. He was the starter by '89. Joe never had the luxury of having a talented rookie quarterback like RG3 that he could thrust into the starting position from day one. Back in those days, the 'skins offense was built around a strong running game, so while I can't exactly say the quarterback position was not AS important, I can say that, obviously, Gibbs was able to win without a true franchise quarterback.

I think when he came back for his second stint in the NFL, he realized that a franchise QB is extremely important, and a running back by committee seems to be the choice for the backfield. I would have been curious to see what Gibbs would have done if he had RG3 and Alfred Morris.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=skinsguy;1010390]. I would have been curious to see what Gibbs would have done if he had RG3 and Alfred Morris.[/quote]

Same thing he did with Theismann and Riggins, probably would set another NFL scoring record.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1010353]He got rid of Schroeder after starting one year due to injury with Doug Williams, Doug Williams got injured after winning the SB the following season and was replaced by Rypien. So I would say no.[/quote]

Jay S = Jeff George.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=Chico23231;1010388]Ill never forget that interview as long as I live with Czab vs Brunnell. That was awesome. Alot of people hate Czab, but Boonell was horrible.[/quote]

Yeah Brunell was having a rough year, personally I though Czab went a little overboard with that interview though. I didn't think MB deserved to be treated like that.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

Kinda sad that Skins fans got personal and treated Brunell like they did. Yeah Gibbs may have left him in there too long, but Gibbs did that w/ all his QB's when they played like shit... Rypien, Theismann and Jay S all played horrible and he tried to let em play their way out of it. Rypien was HORRIBLE in 92 and should have been benched but wasn't. Same with Theismann in 85 before LT snapped his leg. I was at that game and a lot of fans were actually cheering when Theismann was lying on the ground in pain.

I was told by a good friend of mine that the Brunell's had to take their daughter out of school (and home school her) because of the teasing by other kids. Pretty awful IMO.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=skinsguy;1010390][B]Gibbs never had a problem benching quarterbacks nor going with the hot hand even if the starter was healthy (i.e. 1987 Jay VS Doug.) [/B]

At the same time, he preferred letting his young QBs hold a clipboard for a season or two until he felt they were ready. Rypien held a clipboard in '87, and got some playing time in '88 when Williams got hurt. He was the starter by '89. Joe never had the luxury of having a talented rookie quarterback like RG3 that he could thrust into the starting position from day one. Back in those days, the 'skins offense was built around a strong running game, so while I can't exactly say the quarterback position was not AS important, I can say that, obviously, Gibbs was able to win without a true franchise quarterback.

I think when he came back for his second stint in the NFL, he realized that a franchise QB is extremely important, and a running back by committee seems to be the choice for the backfield. I would have been curious to see what Gibbs would have done if he had RG3 and Alfred Morris.[/quote]

I remember that year very well and Gibbs almost had a locker room revolt cause everyone hated Jay S. so much. Everyone wanted Williams in there. Even Bobby Mitchell went on the radio and aired dirty laundry. Scheorder wasn't totally benched until the last game of the year when Williams bailed out a game against Minnesota.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=Mattyk;1010395]Yeah Brunell was having a rough year, personally I though Czab went a little overboard with that interview though. I didn't think MB deserved to be treated like that.[/quote]

Oh yeah, Czab was a complete ass. I enjoy hearing him be an idiot, but watching him be an idoit is just great.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1010352][B]I've heard this rumor alot about Joe Gibbs, mainly that he had a track record of sticking with veteran QB's, and not benching them even when they struggled at times.[/B]

I am too young to remember Joe Gibbs' first time around, although i know well of the veteran QB's that he won super bowls with.

But is it really true? Did he really stick with the vets over younger, possibly better options? I only remember the 2006 season when Joe Gibbs benched Brunell, and i remember nearly all media at that point believed that Brunell was not the problem, that he was only a scapegoat for a team that was completely under-performing.

So was it fan pressure that led to Brunell's benching? Campbell was not really that much better, so why not play Campbell for those remaining games to see what they had, evaluate, and then have a position battle the next year?[/quote]

That is trues for Thiesmann before LT broke his leg.
In 1985 Joey T was having one of the worst year of his career as a Redskins starter 8 TD's to 16 INT's. I was very frustrated with Joey T, it was difficult to watch. Gibbs never even looked like he considered benching Joe.
When Schroeder came in it was a breath of fresh air. I think after that experience Joe was more willing to replace his starter.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

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Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

Gibbs' claim to fame is that he won 3 superbowls all with different QB's.
Keep in mind, none of these will be in the hall of fame.
Think of this too...during Gibbs 2.0 he took 2 very mediocre teams to the playoffs after Spurrier destroyed the team...with an old Brunell and an uninspiring Campbell, not to mention Vinny.
Arguably, more impressive than the Superbowl wins with high talent....take a look at what happened after he left.

Gibbs generally kept his QB's in a long time...he offered a long leash...but he won a Superbowl by benching his starter (against Denver) Also, the year before Gibbs started...they only had one QBs anyways...after Gibbs, they carried only 2...but the drop off was ridiculous. There was no choice for at least the first 4 years...then the backups were usually vets, not young talent.

Brunell was just more accomplished. Campbell hadn't done squat and got sacked a ton because he was slow...at least Brunell could make some short completions without losing 10 yards at a chunk when we averaged 4 yards a run...do the math on that one, it aint pretty.

Gibbs is one heck of a coach, he generally got 3 more wins a season than a team should produce with decent coaching. He never had a superstar like RG3....and good thing...because if Shanny wins a SB with RG3...they will just say it is because of Elway and RG3

Gibbs always got the most out of the talent he had...if anything...he wore the wheels off...he should never be accused on not playing better talent on the bench....can't think of that ever happening in Gibbs 1 or Gibbs 2.0

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=Defensewins;1010440]That is trues for Thiesmann before LT broke his leg.
In 1985 Joey T was having one of the worst year of his career as a Redskins starter 8 TD's to 16 INT's. I was very frustrated with Joey T, it was difficult to watch. Gibbs never even looked like he considered benching Joe.
When Schroeder came in it was a breath of fresh air. I think after that experience Joe was more willing to replace his starter.[/quote]

Man, remember the 5 INTs on his birthday against Dallas to open the season? Or "The Punt" against Chicago?

The only guy who really never fell in Gibbs' good graces was Stan Humphries. Which is too bad because I always kind of liked Stan. But Stan was a bit of an underachiever

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010456]Man, remember the 5 INTs on his birthday against Dallas to open the season? Or "The Punt" against Chicago?

The only guy who really never fell in Gibbs' good graces was Stan Humphries. Which is too bad because I always kind of liked Stan. [B]But Stan was a bit of an underachiever[/B][/quote]

You're right though....always seemed like a good dude
Like Rypien.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=skinsnut;1010454]Gibbs' claim to fame is that he won 3 superbowls all with different QB's.
Keep in mind, none of these will be in the hall of fame.
Think of this too...during Gibbs 2.0 he took 2 very mediocre teams to the playoffs after Spurrier destroyed the team...with an old Brunell and an uninspiring Campbell, not to mention Vinny.
Arguably, more impressive than the Superbowl wins with high talent....take a look at what happened after he left.

Gibbs generally kept his QB's in a long time...he offered a long leash...but he won a Superbowl by benching his starter (against Denver) Also, the year before Gibbs started...they only had one QBs anyways...after Gibbs, they carried only 2...but the drop off was ridiculous. There was no choice for at least the first 4 years...then the backups were usually vets, not young talent.

Brunell was just more accomplished. Campbell hadn't done squat and got sacked a ton because he was slow...at least Brunell could make some short completions without losing 10 yards at a chunk when we averaged 4 yards a run...do the math on that one, it aint pretty.

Gibbs is one heck of a coach, he generally got 3 more wins a season than a team should produce with decent coaching. He never had a superstar like RG3....and good thing...because if Shanny wins a SB with RG3...they will just say it is because of Elway and RG3

Gibbs always got the most out of the talent he had...if anything...he wore the wheels off...he should never be accused on not playing better talent on the bench....can't think of that ever happening in Gibbs 1 or Gibbs 2.0[/quote]

Like I've always said, Gibbs best coaching in Gibbs I was his final season, he took a team that was so beat up and came close to beating SF in SF. In Gibbs II he took a team that lost his best player to murder, also his starting QB to a season ending knee injury and making the playoffs. Yet people complained about Gibbs II, what he accomplished was astonishing in my opinion.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1010419]Kinda sad that Skins fans got personal and treated Brunell like they did. Yeah Gibbs may have left him in there too long, but Gibbs did that w/ all his QB's when they played like shit... Rypien, Theismann and Jay S all played horrible and he tried to let em play their way out of it. Rypien was HORRIBLE in 92 and should have been benched but wasn't. Same with Theismann in 85 before LT snapped his leg. I was at that game and a lot of fans were actually cheering when Theismann was lying on the ground in pain.

I was told by a good friend of mine that the Brunell's had to take their daughter out of school (and home school her) because of the teasing by other kids. Pretty awful IMO.[/quote]

Wow that's shameful. I want The Redskins to win but at the end of the day its just a bloody game.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=Bishop Hammer;1010460]Wow that's shameful. I want The Redskins to win but at the end of the day its just a bloody game.[/quote]

Are you talking about football? It's not just a game, it's a way of life. :joecool:

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010456]Man, remember the 5 INTs on his birthday against Dallas to open the season? Or "The Punt" against Chicago?

The only guy who really never fell in Gibbs' good graces was Stan Humphries. Which is too bad because I always kind of liked Stan. But Stan was a bit of an underachiever[/quote]Stan did make it to a superbowl. Did he just under achieve here, or even in San Diego did he never tap his potential?

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010456]Man, remember the 5 INTs on his birthday against Dallas to open the season? Or "The Punt" against Chicago?

The only guy who really never fell in Gibbs' good graces was Stan Humphries. Which is too bad because I always kind of liked Stan. But Stan was a bit of an underachiever[/quote]

Yeah and the Cowboys fans sang happy birthday to Joe. That was hilarious.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1010458]Like I've always said, Gibbs best coaching in Gibbs I was his final season, he took a team that was so beat up and came close to beating SF in SF. In Gibbs II he took a team that lost his best player to murder, also his starting QB to a season ending knee injury and making the playoffs. Yet people complained about Gibbs II, what he accomplished was astonishing in my opinion.[/quote]

I definitely agree with your points on Gibbs 2.0. He did the best he could and had Todd Collins roll off four straight to get into the dance and almost knocked off a better Seatle team in their place in the playoffs.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

I am convinced that had Gibbs come back after his playoff season, he would have gone deep in the play offs and possibly a SB. Under Zorn, that team went 6-0, but then fell apart for a whole host of reasons - most of which Gibbs would have avoided.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1010614]I am convinced that had Gibbs come back after his playoff season, he would have gone deep in the play offs and possibly a SB. Under Zorn, that team went 6-0, but then fell apart for a whole host of reasons - most of which Gibbs would have avoided.[/quote]Maybe.

I thought these things sunk Zorn after we went 6-2: 1. Pittsburgh, and then everybody else figured out our offense plays, and Zorn didn't adjust enough. 2. In addition to figuring out our scheme, opponents stacked guys in the box to stop Portis and dared Campbell to beat them (he couldn't). 3. Our old OL gave out in the 2nd half of the season. 4. Blanche was a downgrade from Gregg Williams.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

**** those ESPN wankers voting Joe Gibbs #9 on the bullshit poll.
[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/]NFL Football Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Standings, Rumors - National Football League - ESPN[/url]

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1010458]Like I've always said, Gibbs best coaching in Gibbs I was his final season, he took a team that was so beat up and came close to beating SF in SF. In Gibbs II he took a team that lost his best player to murder, also his starting QB to a season ending knee injury and making the playoffs. Yet people complained about Gibbs II, what he accomplished was astonishing in my opinion.[/quote]

I would also say the 87 team was simply great coaching as well because that was not one of the better Redskin Super Bowl teams. I remember the scab game when Dallas had a lot of their players cross the picket line... and play the final scab game. The Skins had 100% scabs and won the game because Gibbs and Pettibone simply out coached Dallas and Tom Landry. I remember Ed Rubbert (sp) got hurt and Tony Robinson, who had just gotten out of jail was running the wishbone. To me that was the best pure coaching I have ever seen. I think Danny White, Tony Dorsett and a few other starters managed like 7 points against our scab defense.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1010820]I would also say the 87 team was simply great coaching as well because that was not one of the better Redskin Super Bowl teams. I remember the scab game when Dallas had a lot of their players cross the picket line... and play the final scab game. The Skins had 100% scabs and won the game because Gibbs and Pettibone simply out coached Dallas and Tom Landry. I remember Ed Rubbert (sp) got hurt and Tony Robinson, who had just gotten out of jail was running the wishbone. To me that was the best pure coaching I have ever seen. I think Danny White, Tony Dorsett and a few other starters managed like 7 points against our scab defense.[/quote][IMG]http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTcwODQ4NDEzMl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTIwMTgyMQ@@._V1_SY317_CR4,0,214,317_.jpg[/IMG]Dunno why the writers had to make the game in the movie so convoluted. The real game was exciting enough!

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

Gibbs 1.0 was fantastic. Gibbs 2.0 was a disaster that the organization is only now getting out from under. You cant infer anything about Gibbs 1.0 by looking at Gibbs 2.0.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=irish;1010887]Gibbs 1.0 was fantastic. Gibbs 2.0 was a disaster that the organization is only now getting out from under. You cant infer anything about Gibbs 1.0 by looking at Gibbs 2.0.[/quote]

If disasters make the playoffs in their final season as head coach, what does that make Zorn's tenure?

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

Yeah those two playoff appearances sure sucked.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

I certainly wasn't impressed with some of the trades that took place during Gibbs II but my gosh....the man was out of coaching for years. He came in to a team basically put together by bugeyed Vinny and Snyder. Our best player was murdered during the season. And in 2 of his 4 years here he led the team to the playoffs. If it was so damn easy how come we only went once between Gibbs I and II?

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

What pisses me off is that Bill Walsh and the WestCoast offense get too much credit. The Redskins, Cowboys and Rams of the 80's and 90's won 7 SB championships using the Air Coryell offense. The Giants and Patriots use the Erhardt-Perkins offense and won 5 SB's (not counting sure Coughlin runs, otherwise it's 7).

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1011073]What pisses me off is that Bill Walsh and the WestCoast offense get too much credit. The Redskins, Cowboys and Rams of the 80's and 90's won 7 SB championships using the Air Coryell offense. The Giants and Patriots use the Erhardt-Perkins offense and won 5 SB's (not counting sure Coughlin runs, otherwise it's 7).[/QUOTE]

How many SB's do u think a WC based team has won? The Walsh coaching tree is arguably the most influential and deepest of them all.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=mooby;1011046]If disasters make the playoffs in their final season as head coach, [B]what does that make Zorn's tenure?[/B][/quote]

How dare you besmirch the Slip 'n Slide Express! The swinging gate will rise again!

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=Mattyk;1011077]How many SB's do u think a WC based team has won? The Walsh coaching tree is arguably the most influential and deepest of them all.[/quote]

You mean Paul Brown if you want to get down to it.

Re: Joe Gibbs and Veteran QB's
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010456]Man, remember the 5 INTs on his birthday against Dallas to open the season? Or "The Punt" against Chicago?

[B]The only guy who really never fell in Gibbs' good graces was Stan Humphries. Which is too bad because I always kind of liked Stan. But Stan was a bit of an underachiever[/B][/quote]

Don't sell Stan short, Stan was a massive underachiever.
Stan had the body of a doughnut eating, video game playing softy. If Stan had a little bit of work ethic he would have been a great player.

Having said that I remember early on in Stan's Redskins career, Joe Gibbs saying Stan had a bright future and complimenting him in training camp. I remember being excited to finally seeing Stan play because Gibbs had talked him up.